The Running Thread - 2020

[Professor_Cookie]

Strava for me gets super wonky in the mountains. My guess is losing the gps signal in woody drainages. I have also used it from just the app and had it add close to 1/2 of a mile in a 3 mile run. That’s part of the reason why you never see me run a whole number on Strava.

My Starva recently has been terrible. I have no idea what is going on. My runs either come up way short or one run came in with a pace that was very unrealistic. I would also like to know if others are having this problem and what they did to fix it. I also know that my routes are not short as I have been running the same loops for years.

Can you download the Strava app and track the run using that rather than just the Apple activities app? That should upload reliably. Maybe give it a couple of test runs.



This has been my experience using Garmin, as well. 0.01 mile reduction when uploading, regardless of run distance.

 

[FFigawi]

Who else is going to hook their iPad up to their TV to watch the suffering? I figure I’ll start tuning in on Monday to see how many people are left.

https://www.runnersworld.com/races-...ium=email&date=101620&utm_campaign=nl21791726

 

[Dopey 2020]

It’s done! NYC virtual was something I wasn’t ready for this weekend but challenge accepted, 4:47:38. Not sure that I would want to do another virtual down the road (though I am doing Disney in two months, but after that...). Without a crowd it’s a lot of miles, but any time I finish a race it’s a good day.

 

[rteetz]

It’s done! NYC virtual was something I wasn’t ready for this weekend but challenge accepted, 4:47:38. Not sure that I would want to do another virtual down the road (though I am doing Disney in two months, but after that...). Without a crowd it’s a lot of miles, but any time I finish a race it’s a good day.

Nice job! Doing mine next weekend.

 

[camaker]

It’s done! NYC virtual was something I wasn’t ready for this weekend but challenge accepted, 4:47:38. Not sure that I would want to do another virtual down the road (though I am doing Disney in two months, but after that...). Without a crowd it’s a lot of miles, but any time I finish a race it’s a good day.

Nice job! Doing mine next weekend.

Next weekend for me, as well.

 

[Kerry1957]

Who else is going to hook their iPad up to their TV to watch the suffering? I figure I’ll start tuning in on Monday to see how many people are left.

https://www.runnersworld.com/races-...ium=email&date=101620&utm_campaign=nl21791726

I've been watching this on and off all day, and for some strange reason, I find it really captivating. And although I've finished 3 marathons in the past two years I have absolutely no thoughts/dreams of ever going farther (further?). Thanks for posting the link!

 

[kimbert]

Just popping in to mention that I completed my virtual marathon yesterday, and have some thoughts.

This was only my second marathon. Last fall I completed my very first, and decided I thought it would be a good idea to train for a Spring Half, and a Fall Full every year. And to do this for at least 10 years total, so I could complete 1 full in every Canadian province (I live in Nova Scotia). Well, thankfully I went out of province for last year, because even having to do my virtual one at home this year, I still knock off a second province!

-We kept our training schedule the same as if it was a live race, but I know we both (I train with 1 long-distance run buddy) used the fact of it being "only" virtual to skip a workout or 2 along the way.

-PRO: We got to design our own course - we used routes we ran often in training, but just combined them in different ways to get the full 42.2k... CON: we never ran this one stretch on tired legs... it wound up being our 35-40k stretch and lemmie tell you... it felt like hell.

-We had 4 pre-planned water stations with family/friends in parking lots with cold water, tissues, extra nutrition, popsicles etc. It bolstered us to realize we had people in our lives willing to sit in a parking lot for ~30mins just waiting!

-We are back of the pack runners, (5:25 finish last year) and we managed this one in 6:01 ("running" time, not total elapsed because we had to pause for stop lights, bathroom breaks, our aid stations etc.) but I'm still very proud of that.

-We had a bluetooth speaker tucked into my water backpack and we blasted the Hamilton soundtrack + 90s hits. Highly recommend, just being mindful of the swears if your route includes some of a local trail =)

-We had gorgeous fall weather here with leaves changing and a lovely day which was slightly cool to begin, and nice and mildly warm by the end. Sunny, but not blistering hot, breezy but not wildly windy. Honestly, we probably couldn't have ordered us up better weather.

-A virtual marathon is hard in a different way than a race. I wound up running my first marathon 99% solo (small event + back-of-the-packer meant I ran "with" no one and saw no spectators until 35km), and I got to run with a buddy this time, but it was still very hard after 30km. Especially when you're running together, but each has issues at different times. Sometimes I needed a break and she didn't, sometimes she asked to slow when I was happy to power through. But I was glad we stuck together.

Hoping I never have to do that again, but learned some valuable tips for the next one if it stays necessary.

 

[shellott-hill]

Just popping in to mention that I completed my virtual marathon yesterday, and have some thoughts.

This was only my second marathon. Last fall I completed my very first, and decided I thought it would be a good idea to train for a Spring Half, and a Fall Full every year. And to do this for at least 10 years total, so I could complete 1 full in every Canadian province (I live in Nova Scotia). Well, thankfully I went out of province for last year, because even having to do my virtual one at home this year, I still knock off a second province!
...

Congratulations from a fellow Canuck. A monumental feat in the record books for a Bluenoser! I am in awe of your fortitude to run on when the world is throwing barriers at you left and right. I love the idea in running in every province...I may borrow your idea and put that on my bucket list.

Your soundtrack sounds amazing...it would have been perfect if you put Gordon Lightfoot on repeat for a couple of miles..."The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald".

 

[GreatLakes]

I've been watching this on and off all day, and for some strange reason, I find it really captivating. And although I've finished 3 marathons in the past two years I have absolutely no thoughts/dreams of ever going farther (further?). Thanks for posting the link!

We have a winner.

Spoiler: Winner

Looks like Courtney Dauwalter won finishing 68 loops.

 

[garneska]

you actually have the international winner. it was so much fun watching that. I am already toying with the idea if i could do something like that but i would aim for 12 hours. I don't do well with no sleep. Simply amazing.

 

[flav]

you actually have the international winner. it was so much fun watching that. I am already toying with the idea if i could do something like that but i would aim for 12 hours. I don't do well with no sleep. Simply amazing.

Sounds like a fun and more realistic goal!

 

[michigandergirl]

If anyone needs running inspiration, watch Running for Good (on Amazon Prime) about marathoner Fiona Oakes. I am in awe at what she's been able to accomplish without a left knee cap!

 

[Kerry1957]

We have a winner.

Courtney Dauwalter is the American champion finishing 68 yards (a yard = 4.1667 mile loop) the overall winner is Karel Sabbe from Belgium. He completed 75 yards which is just over 500 kilometers or 312 miles. The runners had to complete 1 yard per hour. The odd distance works out to 100 miles per 24 hours. Karel ran for over 3 days straight!

 

[GreatLakes]

Courtney Dauwalter is the American champion finishing 68 yards (a yard = 4.1667 mile loop) the overall winner is Karel Sabbe from Belgium. He completed 75 yards which is just over 500 kilometers or 312 miles. The runners had to complete 1 yard per hour. The odd distance works out to 100 miles per 24 hours. Karel ran for over 3 days straight!

I forgot there were also races not in TN. I was just paying attention to the onsite participants.

 

[camaker]

Race Report - New York City Virtual Marathon

Today was my scheduled day to run the NYC Virtual and results were mixed, but mostly positive. I’ve had my best marathon training cycle leading up to this race, so I elected to treat it as a time trial to see what I could accomplish. I chose the American Tobacco Trail where I could run a straight, relatively flat out and back on a mix of crushed gravel trail and pavement.

The day started at 62 degrees (T+D 122) and rose to 76 degrees (T+D 142) as the race wore on. For fueling and hydration, I had a 2L bladder in my vest with ~1,000cal of Tailwind. My plan was to target 9:00 miles throughout in a sub-4:00 attempt.

The race started well enough and I was mainly hitting miles between 8:37 and 9:09 for the first half. Unbeknownst to me, my wife arranged for friends and family to be waiting at several points near the turnaround to cheer. It was a great lift. From the early stages, though, I was having trouble with my Tailwind intake. For some reason, it wasn’t sitting well on my stomach and I was having to balance taking in what I could with not upsetting my stomach. I hit the halfway mark at 1:57:49 and was feeling pretty good about things, though.

The second half started well enough, maintaining my miles in the range of 8:46 to 9:25 through mile 23. I was still feeling confident, with an average pace of ~9:02/mile. Then I hit the wall. I lost all energy in my legs and fatigue rapidly took over. I was unable to maintain constant running, much less pacing at that point and I started to hemorrhage time. Sub-4:00 became a distant memory as I just wanted to finish feeling like death warmed over.

Ultimately, I finished in 4:06:13. Sub-4:00, which had seemed so close as late as the 23 mile mark, just wasn’t in the cards. The good news is that I still achieved an unofficial 12 minute PR with that 4:06. I’m happy with that result. I feel like I swung for the fence with the sub-4:00 and ended up with a triple with the 12 minute PR.

Now I need to perform the post-mortem to see if I can prevent hitting the wall and crashing out next time. The obvious place to look is the hydration and fueling strategy. I was very dehydrated after the race and I finished with ~1/2 of my 2L of water and 500 of my 1,000 calories left over. I don’t think I could have pushed much more down without completely turning my stomach over, though. Is that a “this race” problem or a strategy problem? I’m not sure how to figure that out, though, as combination Tailwind hydration and fueling has worked well in training. Ideas are welcome.

Thanks for reading another long race report!

TL;DR Summary

• 4:06:13 finish.
• Missed sub-4:00. Boo!
• 12 minute PR. Yay!
• Dehydration and stomach issues suck

 

[avondale]

Race Report - New York City Virtual Marathon

Today was my scheduled day to run the NYC Virtual and results were mixed, but mostly positive. I’ve had my best marathon training cycle leading up to this race, so I elected to treat it as a time trial to see what I could accomplish. I chose the American Tobacco Trail where I could run a straight, relatively flat out and back on a mix of crushed gravel trail and pavement.

The day started at 62 degrees (T+D 122) and rose to 76 degrees (T+D 142) as the race wore on. For fueling and hydration, I had a 2L bladder in my vest with ~1,000cal of Tailwind. My plan was to target 9:00 miles throughout in a sub-4:00 attempt.

The race started well enough and I was mainly hitting miles between 8:37 and 9:09 for the first half. Unbeknownst to me, my wife arranged for friends and family to be waiting at several points near the turnaround to cheer. It was a great lift. From the early stages, though, I was having trouble with my Tailwind intake. For some reason, it wasn’t sitting well on my stomach and I was having to balance taking in what I could with not upsetting my stomach. I hit the halfway mark at 1:47:49 and was feeling pretty good about things, though.

The second half started well enough, maintaining my miles in the range of 8:46 to 9:25 through mile 23. I was still feeling confident, with an average pace of ~9:02/mile. Then I hit the wall. I lost all energy in my legs and fatigue rapidly took over. I was unable to maintain constant running, much less pacing at that point and I started to hemorrhage time. Sub-4:00 became a distant memory as I just wanted to finish feeling like death warmed over.

Ultimately, I finished in 4:06:13. Sub-4:00, which had seemed so close as late as the 23 mile mark, just wasn’t in the cards. The good news is that I still achieved an unofficial 12 minute PR with that 4:06. I’m happy with that result. I feel like I swung for the fence with the sub-4:00 and ended up with a triple with the 12 minute PR.

Now I need to perform the post-mortem to see if I can prevent hitting the wall and crashing out next time. The obvious place to look is the hydration and fueling strategy. I was very dehydrated after the race and I finished with ~1/2 of my 2L of water and 500 of my 1,000 calories left over. I don’t think I could have pushed much more down without completely turning my stomach over, though. Is that a “this race” problem or a strategy problem? I’m not sure how to figure that out, though, as combination Tailwind hydration and fueling has worked well in training. Ideas are welcome.

Thanks for reading another long race report!

TL;DR Summary

• 4:06:13 finish.
• Missed sub-4:00. Boo!
• 12 minute PR. Yay!
• Dehydration and stomach issues suck

Wow, what a marathon! Definitely a bummer to miss your target, but you had a huge PB overall. So cool that you had surprise spectators to cheer you on! I really don't think I could make myself run a marathon distance for a virtual race. Congratulations!

I will be interested to see what you come up with about fueling. Lately I seem to be having problems with that myself - I'm not sure if I'm actually digesting and absorbing the carbs, and my stomach starts feeling bloated sort of (but I am not nauseated). Most recently for a 14-miler, I tried 200 cal of Maurten gel immediately before starting, another 100-cal Maurten gel and 100-cal of Sport Beans in the first 4 miles, and then I had 2L with about 300-cal of Tailwind. I didn't hit the wall as quickly as you did, but mile 9 or 10 was really the end of my intended pace. This has happened in all my long runs in the past couple months.

So unfortunately I don't have suggestions for you - sorry!

 

[FFigawi]

Now I need to perform the post-mortem to see if I can prevent hitting the wall and crashing out next time. The obvious place to look is the hydration and fueling strategy. I was very dehydrated after the race and I finished with ~1/2 of my 2L of water and 500 of my 1,000 calories left over. I don’t think I could have pushed much more down without completely turning my stomach over, though. Is that a “this race” problem or a strategy problem? I’m not sure how to figure that out, though, as combination Tailwind hydration and fueling has worked well in training. Ideas are welcome.

If Tailwind worked well for you all throughout your training, I'd chalk this up to a "this race, this day" problem. It's unfortunate this was not a real race because you might have been able to adjust on the fly to using water and gels from the aid stations instead of having to rely on Tailwind. Worst case, you would've had the same result. Best case, you would've been better hydrated and maybe better fueled. In any event, congrats on a new unofficial PR! Now you know a sub-4 is not out of reach.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Race Report - New York City Virtual Marathon

Today was my scheduled day to run the NYC Virtual and results were mixed, but mostly positive. I’ve had my best marathon training cycle leading up to this race, so I elected to treat it as a time trial to see what I could accomplish. I chose the American Tobacco Trail where I could run a straight, relatively flat out and back on a mix of crushed gravel trail and pavement.

The day started at 62 degrees (T+D 122) and rose to 76 degrees (T+D 142) as the race wore on. For fueling and hydration, I had a 2L bladder in my vest with ~1,000cal of Tailwind. My plan was to target 9:00 miles throughout in a sub-4:00 attempt.

The race started well enough and I was mainly hitting miles between 8:37 and 9:09 for the first half. Unbeknownst to me, my wife arranged for friends and family to be waiting at several points near the turnaround to cheer. It was a great lift. From the early stages, though, I was having trouble with my Tailwind intake. For some reason, it wasn’t sitting well on my stomach and I was having to balance taking in what I could with not upsetting my stomach. I hit the halfway mark at 1:47:49 and was feeling pretty good about things, though.

The second half started well enough, maintaining my miles in the range of 8:46 to 9:25 through mile 23. I was still feeling confident, with an average pace of ~9:02/mile. Then I hit the wall. I lost all energy in my legs and fatigue rapidly took over. I was unable to maintain constant running, much less pacing at that point and I started to hemorrhage time. Sub-4:00 became a distant memory as I just wanted to finish feeling like death warmed over.

Ultimately, I finished in 4:06:13. Sub-4:00, which had seemed so close as late as the 23 mile mark, just wasn’t in the cards. The good news is that I still achieved an unofficial 12 minute PR with that 4:06. I’m happy with that result. I feel like I swung for the fence with the sub-4:00 and ended up with a triple with the 12 minute PR.

Now I need to perform the post-mortem to see if I can prevent hitting the wall and crashing out next time. The obvious place to look is the hydration and fueling strategy. I was very dehydrated after the race and I finished with ~1/2 of my 2L of water and 500 of my 1,000 calories left over. I don’t think I could have pushed much more down without completely turning my stomach over, though. Is that a “this race” problem or a strategy problem? I’m not sure how to figure that out, though, as combination Tailwind hydration and fueling has worked well in training. Ideas are welcome.

Thanks for reading another long race report!

TL;DR Summary

• 4:06:13 finish.
• Missed sub-4:00. Boo!
• 12 minute PR. Yay!
• Dehydration and stomach issues suck

Congrats again!

Had to double check that HM split (1:47) since that beats your PR by 8 minutes. But it was 1:57 based on what I could calculate from your Strava.

If the lack of being able to drink liquids during a race is normal, then you could consider something like Maurten 320 instead of Tailwind. It has a carb content of 4.6g/oz instead of 2g/oz of Tailwind. So if you suddenly were able to drink less, then this would allow you to take in more carbs. But I'm thinking that might not have been the issue.

Looking at your PRs of 51:35 for 10k and 1:52:12 for HM shows a razor thin margin for error on a sub-4 marathon. The 1:52 HM is the better performance. It shows about a 23% chance of sub-4 based on the Williams and Vickers data sets. Do you think you could have run a HM faster than 1:52 recently based on your good training cycle? The 1:57 HM split was pushing towards a 3:54 M. That finish time would put you in the top 6% for HM runners with a 1:52 HM PR. If instead of 8:57 pace through 13 miles, something like 9:05-9:15 pace might have been enough. Just barely slower but it might make the difference. Miles 3, 7, 12 and 13 were all 8:42 or faster which puts you really close to HM Tempo instead of M Tempo. So it might be more simply that the initial pace was just barely a touch too aggressive. That's what I see in the data. A 12 min PR is awesome! I definitely think a sub-4 is possible, especially if you get sub-100 T+D weather!

 

[camaker]

Had to double check that HM split (1:47) since that beats your PR by 8 minutes. But it was 1:57 based on what I could calculate from your Strava.

Thanks for the detailed analysis, as always, @DopeyBadger! Good catch on the typo there. My half split was, in fact, 1:57:49, and I’ve corrected it above. It’s exactly the split I was aiming for, so I was very happy at that point.

If the lack of being able to drink liquids during a race is normal, then you could consider something like Maurten 320 instead of Tailwind. It has a carb content of 4.6g/oz instead of 2g/oz of Tailwind. So if you suddenly were able to drink less, then this would allow you to take in more carbs. But I'm thinking that might not have been the issue.

inability to take fluids is most definitely not a normal occurrence. I usually have more problems with forgetting to drink enough and having to remind myself to up my intake. I’ll usually drink more on a 14-15 mile training run than I took in during the race. Very unusual. I’ve tried Maurten and liked it, but I’ve been turned off by their lack of shelf life and quality control. I’ve had quite a few of their gel packs blow up like taut balloons, seeming to indicate contamination and subsequent fermentation during storage. They’re way too expensive to have to throw a significant portion away due to those issues.

Looking at your PRs of 51:35 for 10k and 1:52:12 for HM shows a razor thin margin for error on a sub-4 marathon. The 1:52 HM is the better performance. It shows about a 23% chance of sub-4 based on the Williams and Vickers data sets. Do you think you could have run a HM faster than 1:52 recently based on your good training cycle? The 1:57 HM split was pushing towards a 3:54 M. That finish time would put you in the top 6% for HM runners with a 1:52 HM PR. If instead of 8:57 pace through 13 miles, something like 9:05-9:15 pace might have been enough. Just barely slower but it might make the difference. Miles 3, 7, 12 and 13 were all 8:42 or faster which puts you really close to HM Tempo instead of M Tempo. So it might be more simply that the initial pace was just barely a touch too aggressive. That's what I see in the data. A 12 min PR is awesome! I definitely think a sub-4 is possible, especially if you get sub-100 T+D weather!

My half marathon PR is 3.5 years old at this point. I haven’t focused on that distance enough to say with assurance whether I could better it now, or not. I will say, though, that I feel like I’m in my best shape ever right now.

I agree that my pace was bit less even than I would have liked it to be. On a straight, flat course like yesterday’s I found that if I let my mind wander at all, my pace would start to slide and then I would overcompensate a little trying to get it back on target. Ultimately, though, I was right on target up through mile 23. While that may have played some role, I’ve had my share of runs where I’ve been overly aggressive on the front end, leading to back end issues. When that’s happened, though, it’s resulted in a gradual slowing of pace, not the dramatic crash that I saw yesterday.

Yesterday felt almost like somebody unplugged my legs from the wall socket. There was nothing gradual about it. That’s why I’m tending to look more at the hydration/nutrition failure end of things. So far, I’m looking at a rough hierarchy of failure mode contributions along these lines:

• Pacing variation early in race - minor
• Heat and humidity - minor to moderate
• Under-hydration - minor to moderate
• Under-fueling - major

What do you think?

 

[DopeyBadger]

inability to take fluids is most definitely not a normal occurrence. I usually have more problems with forgetting to drink enough and having to remind myself to up my intake. I’ll usually drink more on a 14-15 mile training run than I took in during the race. Very unusual. I’ve tried Maurten and liked it, but I’ve been turned off by their lack of shelf life and quality control. I’ve had quite a few of their gel packs blow up like taut balloons, seeming to indicate contamination and subsequent fermentation during storage. They’re way too expensive to have to throw a significant portion away due to those issues.

Hmm, I'd definitely agree that if I had those issues with Maurten in the past I'd second guess buying it too. It's definitely expensive. I think the shelf life for the Maurten 320 powder is usually 1-2 years when I've gotten it.

While that may have played some role, I’ve had my share of runs where I’ve been overly aggressive on the front end, leading to back end issues. When that’s happened, though, it’s resulted in a gradual slowing of pace, not the dramatic crash that I saw yesterday.

Yesterday felt almost like somebody unplugged my legs from the wall socket. There was nothing gradual about it. That’s why I’m tending to look more at the hydration/nutrition failure end of things. So far, I’m looking at a rough hierarchy of failure mode contributions along these lines:

A description like the above is a hallmark of glycogen depletion. Where it's a sudden and complete drop off rather than a fade. Your legs get all wobbly and it's impossible to get something resembling running going. In some cases the pace and GD go hand in hand. Because the rate of carb use is related to pace. So a less aggressive pace might have pulled the carb burn rate to slightly less not hitting the GD threshold. But I certainly won't disagree that 500 calories or 125g carbs over 4 hours is pretty small. You're taking about 31g/ hr. So I think a little of both could definitely help. A slightly less aggressive pace and an increase in carb consumption more like your normal training rate.

It's one of those questions you have to ask yourself pre-race. Is a 3:59:59 just as valuable as a 3:57:00 (or best possible finish time)? If the answer is no, then your pace was on target. Because you were swinging for the fence. If instead the answer is yes (and any sub-4 is equally desirable), then aim to be at 9:07-9:10 pace (as tight as you can get it) from the outset. Any paces in the 8:40s or 8:30s is going to hurt those chances of sub-4. Even slightly slower is better through the first half. Because if your body can tolerate it, then it'll be able to pick the pace up late.