The Running Thread - 2019

Attqotd: my easy pace varies from day to day, especially now, it all depends on the conditions of the snow I am running on and how much altitude I am gaining. An easy pace can be 11 min/mi with relatively little altitude gain on packed snow, to 25 min/mi up a steep slope with soft snow.

When I started with steeps last summer, there was an aha moment when running up my big hill(1400 feet over 2 miles). I switched from “running” to hiking. My pace stayed the same, but my heart rate dropped about 30 beats a minute.
 
ATTQOTD: For me, a comfortable pace means where I can carry on a conversation, breathing feels good, heart rate isn’t high. It’s also a feeling of knowing you can keep going at that pace for awhile.

Yesterday’s QOTD: Most races I do are for fun. I only tend to shoot for a PR for one or two races a year. 100% of all Disney races are always about having fun!
 
QOTD: Yesterday afternoon while driving home I started to ponder how each of us get to what we consider a comfortable pace for running. My thought is what makes a 8 minute pace easy for one person while 10 minute pace for someone else. I guess the question is how did you determine what your starting comfortable pace is? Also, do you think it would be possible if when you started to say I want "x" pace to be what my normal runs are at? For example lets say 9 min/mi is where you are today and is comfortable, do you think if you started with a 7:30 min/mi and did not know any better that, that pace would be your normal? I realize there are a lot of factors from person to person on this question but I was curious what everyone thought?
ATTQOTD: For me, "comfortable" was always and had been for many years a pace where I felt like I was pushing but not pushing too hard that I couldn't complete whatever distance I was running. I ran at that pace through all the distances up to a half marathon. For the marathon training I did in 2018, I experimented with different paces which included what I called a "true comfortable" pace which is a pace where I feel comfortable without pushing. I also ran the long training runs at an even slower EZ pace. While I did all of this to help me just complete the marathon standing up, the different paces have helped with both endurance and speed especially when I started mixing in my old comfortable pace and my 10K pace into my mid week runs.
 
ATTQOTD: I typically would answer as others have, where being able to carry on a conversation is a comfortable pace. But I've had a slightly different experience in the past couple of years. I've reached the point where the easy conversation pace and the efficient-form pace seem to have diverged. Even on the recent DopeyBadger plan that I completed, I find that running something like 4-6 miles at a pace that feels great from a heart rate/breathing point of view leaves me more sore in my feet/knees afterward than when I do a longer run (8-10 miles) at LR pace (about a minute per mile faster than "easy"). I would say that I could still talk when doing the faster pace, but it isn't what I'd describe as the "run forever" feeling.
 
@LSUlakes, would you please add a race to the schedule for me?

Feb 2 - @camaker - Light 2 Light 50 Miler (A Goal: Finish, B Goal: Don't die)

Really going out on a limb on this one. Here's hoping that slowing down enough will get me through! I haven't been this nervous about a race since my first marathon. The 50k I could rationalize as "just 5 more miles than a marathon", but this one is completely uncharted territory.
 
I've been doing a series of training load calculation posts in my journal that has gotten a lot of positive feedback. So I thought I'd share in case others who don't commonly read would be interested in the information as well.

-A longer thread from earlier in 2018: The Beginner's Guide to Stravistix or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the TRIMP (started by @kleph)
-An explantation of the terminology and whether "Fitness" = Pace: "Fitness" and "Fatigue"
-More isn't always better
-Finally figured out how to apply the mathematical formula of Stress Score, "Fitness" and "Fatigue"

Now the parts that will be more interesting.

Training Load Calculations on Different Training Plans for Different Fitness Profiles
-Covers the following scenarios.
--4 hour runner vs 6 hour runner using traditional Galloway Advanced Marathon
--4 hour runner choosing between traditional Galloway Advanced Marathon and a hybrid with 4 days per week but minimized long run
--6 hour runner choosing between traditional Galloway Advanced Marathon and a hybrid with 4 days per week but minimized long run
--4 hour runner vs 5 hour runner using Hansons Advanced
--4 hour runner vs 5 hour runner using Hansons Advanced; Determining appropriate Base training
--4 hour runner vs 5 hour runner using Hansons Advanced; A Secondary method to make Hansons Advanced appropriate for 5 hr runner

Training Load Calculations on Different Training Plans for Different Fitness Profiles: Part 2
--Covers the following scenarios.
--4 hour runner choosing between Hansons Advanced and Higdon Advanced 2
--4 hour runner missing the last long run in Hansons Advanced: What truly happens to training load when you miss the last big training day???
--4 hour runner missing the entire peak week in Hansons Advanced: What truly happens to training load when you miss the entire peak week???
--4 hour runner who chooses to increase the long run in Hansons Advanced because 16 is just too short

4 hour marathon runner choosing between Hansons Advanced and Hansons Beginner

I'm open to doing more comparisons if someone would like me to. As I said in the posts, training load is not the end all be all of training plan design. But merely another useful tool in the tool box in development and the overarching principles. It classically comes from cycling training, so I do believe there are some potential shortfalls with running plan design. But with that being said, I feel like the comparisons did a good job of flushing out my thoughts on each situation and showing it can be applicable.
 
ATTQOTD: As others have said, if I can easily carry on a conversation and feel like it's a pace I can maintain indefinitely then it's comfortable.

Yesterday's ATTQOTD: Nearly all my races are for fun. I probably do 1 or 2 a year where I have a specific goal in mind - which I often fail to reach- and then I pretend that was just a fun run. :D
 
I have a few different comfortable paces. I usually identify it as the pace I could run ALL DAY (probably not in reality because my feet would give out). Then I have my slightly faster SSR pace--slow, social, run pace. This is the pace when on the rare occasion I am running with a group to be social. Finally, I have my comfortable, but not too comfortable pace--probably 30-60 seconds slower than mp, that I do on my own.

And fun runs? I like to be competitive at nearly every race I do. That doesn't mean it isn't fun.
 
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Went for our first “post WDW Half” run today...the path was 50% ice/snow covered which made it interesting...but, I managed to maintain a decent pace while not slipping, sliding or falling!

Catching up on QOTDs:

Favorite medal—2012 Coast-to-Coast.

Fun—while some races are more enjoyable than others, fun is not how I’d describe any race.
 
@LSUlakes, would you please add a race to the schedule for me?

Feb 2 - @camaker - Light 2 Light 50 Miler (A Goal: Finish, B Goal: Don't die)

Really going out on a limb on this one. Here's hoping that slowing down enough will get me through! I haven't been this nervous about a race since my first marathon. The 50k I could rationalize as "just 5 more miles than a marathon", but this one is completely uncharted territory.

Hey @camaker, wish I could sign up for the Light 2 Light and do it with you. Serious case of FOMO for me. You will do great and can't wait to hear about it.
 
ATTQOTD-I struggle with comfortable pace. Too slow and it's almost painful and more tiring than running a faster pace.
Too fast and I run out of steam. Some days I'm all over the place.

Hey @LSUlakes …...please add Myrtle Beach Marathon on March 2nd to the calendar for me. I'll post a goal closer to race day once I figure out how well training goes.
 
ATTQOTD-I struggle with comfortable pace. Too slow and it's almost painful and more tiring than running a faster pace.
Too fast and I run out of steam. Some days I'm all over the place.

Hey @LSUlakes …...please add Myrtle Beach Marathon on March 2nd to the calendar for me. I'll post a goal closer to race day once I figure out how well training goes.
You mean all over the pace?

(Sorry, I had to)
 
I learned on here to carry a plastic grocery bag with me. It’s weighs nothing and folds up small. I had several people comment what a great idea it was and how prepared I was. But yeah, giving everyone a reusable bag at the end would be nice.
I often run races with a runDisney AP drawstring backpack for that very reason. I barely feel it during the race and it makes carrying the post race stuff so much easier.

Jeez, really? I can only hope that the people buying them finished the race and just want an extra set.
I was looking for an extra set of Dopey 2019 medals and when I saw the ebay price, I decided to just buy a shadowbox with extra medals. May as well get something useful out of that price. I opted to get the WDW Marathon Weekend framed medals with Mickey sketch so I had to leave my medals with Disney at Epcot in The Art of Disney.

lso, I’ll jump in and do the Friday Fun QOTD: with the talk here recently about medals, I’m wondering what is your favorite medal? It can be one that you actually have or just you that you’ve seen and thought looked awesome.
I'll list a top 5 and brief reasons why.

1. 2017 Kessel Run Medal. This marked my dream medal if you will and also marked the finale of 18+ months worth of training including twice in the worst time of year professionally.
2. 2019 Walt Disney World Marathon. My first marathon, my first Mickey medal, and the realization of the dream I once thought impossible.
3. 2015 Star Wars Half Marathon. Another dream medal and patterned after the medal given to Luke and Han at the end of the original movie. This medal has a Chewbacca ribbon too!
4. 2017 Coast to Coast. While it's my second Coast to Coast medal, it gets the nod over 2012 because it has both U.S. Disney castles.
5. 2011 Disneyland Half Marathon. My first race medal ever so it has sentimental value, but I also truly love it.

Honorable mentions: BB-8 2017 Light Side 10K, 2015, 2016 Rebel Challenge medals, 2017 Dark Side Challenge medal, 2017 Avengers Half for firmly planting the marathon dream.

She was trying to get C2C and would get swept.
As much as I wish runDisney would make all the medals finishers medals, I'm glad they at least award any challenge medal to finishers only. Honestly, if I had known that just starting the race would have gotten me that darn medal during my very first half marathon, I fear I would have stopped right then and there, half a mile into the course, been handed that medal, and decided that I'm never going to be a runner. Since that moment where I wanted to quit less than half a mile into my very first half marathon, I have learned so much about myself and done things I never even believed were possible. And none of it would have happened if I had pulled to the side. And I can guarantee that when Star Wars races were announced, I would have told myself "too bad I'm not a runner because I can never do that. I even failed at attempting it." Instead that announcement spurred me to greater challenges and in time resulted in me attempting the one distance I never thought I would.

So even though this medal isn't anything special as far as the design, it means a lot to me.
To me, each race medal also reflects the challenge of what it took to cross the finish line. And each race presented very different challenges along the way.

QOTD: How often do you run races just for fun?
So far all of my races have been just for fun. Running only at Disneyland, Disney World, or in a major league baseball stadium guarantee fun. I am however thinking more about goals beyond finishing.

I guess the question is how did you determine what your starting comfortable pace is?
Initially I defined starting pace as race required minimum. As I've gained more experience, confidence, and knowledge, I've learned that that the answer is far more complicated than that. Now I'm not afraid to really slow down a pace if I need to because I finally understand that slower runs do not ruin goals.

It's what I call, "Don't Survive the Training, Thrive because of it". Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.
This is so true. For years I trained at race minimum or slightly higher every single time. I feared that slower than required minimum would ruin goals of finishing. And for years, I finished every single long run exhausted, tired, sore, and really, really sick of running. In the early short mileage runs, I would think I can run a marathon. And then in the 10+ mile runs, I would realize that I hated running and had no desire whatsoever to continue doing it beyond 13.1 miles. Training became an almost necessary evil in order to have fun on race day at Disneyland or World. But then I finally learned what pacing really means. Suddenly long runs became far more enjoyable, a whole lot less sore, and suddenly the marathon really started to appeal to me.

On the opposite end, you can see that little harm will be done if you train just slightly too slow. So I always try to impress upon my runners, train where you are and not necessarily where you want to be. With consistent training, you'll get where you want to be. A runner who can put in lots of good efforts without getting injured can become consistent and make consistent gains. But a runner who is striving beyond their current fitness and consistently ends up injured is likely to stunt their improvement over time.
About a year ago, I was experimenting with running faster too much, too soon and trained myself into a case of runners knee and feared that all sorts of running dreams were now over. But that wound up changing everything and now a year later, those running dreams I feared were over have become the running dreams I actually accomplished. Including finishing the marathon. I still have yet to run a sub 3 half marathon. But that clearly was not the barrier to finishing the marathon I once believed it to be. And I can continue to enjoy running even at my much slower paces.

There was no way I could maintain that pace, and thus I always failed and thought I simply was not designed to be a runner.
There's a lot of truth in this. Many times after runDisney races, I meet people who sound like they'd love to participate in a runDisney event, but fear they never can because they're not a runner. I try to encourage them as best I can, but in the end, each person has to give it a go for themselves and learn that being a runner means many different things.

No matter where you start, your comfortable pace ought to be one where you can easily carry on a conversation for an extended period of time. If you feel like you're dying, that doesn't sound very comfortable and you need to slow down to one that is. As your fitness increases and you become a better runner, your comfortable pace will naturally increase as well, though as @DopeyBadger explains above, you can't run at one pace all the time and expect this to happen.
This is so true. I've found over the years that I enjoy running a lot more when I'm maintaining a comfortable pace because I'm not too tired and I'm also allowing my legs to recover more quickly so getting out there the next day does not feel painful at the mere thought.

I probably do 1 or 2 a year where I have a specific goal in mind - which I often fail to reach- and then I pretend that was just a fun run. :D
I really love this. We do this for enjoyment. We do this to hopefully improve our quality of life. So if we have to find ways to cope with missed goals that still ended in success, we continue to go out there.
 
ATTQOTD easy pace: After I had been running for a while, I did a 3km test and that gave me the paces I had to train at. The easy pace pretty much fit the interpolation.

Of course, a big climb or snow can slow me down. I generally try to go for constant effort instead of constant speed.

I recently redid a 3km evaluation and the paces were faster. It made me realize that I was limited by the agility of my legs, not by my cardiovascular capacity. So talking or singing while running is not a problem for me and would ne be a good measure of my capabilities.
 
















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