The Running Thread - 2016

[Waiting2goback]

ATTQOTD: Running is as much mental as it is physical. When I first read this on the Run Selfie Repeat blog, I thought it was total BS. But the more I run, the more I discover how true this is.

Running is 90% mental and 10% physical IMO. Your body can handle whatever you through it at if you train it properly. Just look at what Mike and John do for their "fun" events. It's the brain that limits us, unless there is an obvious injury. It just comes down to the amount of work you are willing to do to reach your goals really.

I know getting starting has a decent amount of upfront cost, and once you get started the one that will repeat itself is the shoes. When it comes to GPS watches, go ahead and get one that will give you a lot of data if that's what you like. With that in mind I have a Garmin Forerunner 235. For reviews of GPS watches of any kind, I would recommend looking through this guys reviews http://www.dcrainmaker.com/ . Very detailed reviews. Also, once you get a GPS watch, if using Garmin you can see all your data on Garmin Connect and then use that platform to transfer everything to a site like Strava as well. If you get a watch with Bluetooth tech, it will transfer as soon as your run is saved and within a close distance to your watch, thus allowing you to look at all the nifty data ASAP.



I'm in Louisiana, so my 4:00AM is 5:00AM for you.... That would be a little better lol

It doesn't really matter. I am not working right now so for me to get up at 4 or 5 isn't a big deal. I'll set my alarm, call and yell at you with my Boston accent and go back to sleep. The truth is, I am usually up any way. I can't sleep with this anchor on my leg. It feels like it weighs 100 pounds.

Hello fellow researcher!

I use Excel to figure out training plans for myself and others. Here's a sample of how I do it.

View attachment 186066

View attachment 186067

I use excel to track race performance.

View attachment 186068

I also have used excel to determine carb needs for marathons, my current diet scheme, and tracking my HR vs performance to be able to figure out future performance. I've also broken down the Hansons pace table into a calculator based system that allows me to input anyone's 5K, 10K, HM, or M PRs to determine optimal training pacing based on their current fitness.

Needless to say, I got data!

I use Strava and Garmin to upload and review the data.

As always, if anyone is interested in seeing what I come up with for a custom training plan based on your current fitness, time available to train, and current goals, just send me a PM. Helping others make training plans is a hobby of mine. It doesn't matter if you're training for a 5K or a marathon, and it doesn't matter if you're training for a sub 50 min 5K or a sub 2:30 marathon. I aim to help anyone who wants to give me that opportunity.

I told you he was your guy and even though I can't volunteer him I knew he would love to help you!

OK, y'all ...

Would you ever report someone you knew to a race director for a serious course-cutting infraction resulting in a a massive PoT improvement. This was only on the half (RnR Las Vegas), but I have a feeling she's going to try it again this year for the full in an attempt to BQ.

She "ran" RnR LV half in 1:58 last year. Her other half times are 3:58, 4:05 and 4:18. I mean, it's pretty obvious she course cut at LV because she has no timing mat segments and no on-course pictures.

WWYD?

She was planning to run Dopey in 2017, which is why I think she went for that PoT. But she also recently changed her tune and I believe it's because she may have been banned from RD after she got busted course-cutting during Princess in 2015 (she had a half result, but is now completely gone from the site).

She's my age, so her BQ time would need to be something like 3:24 minimum.

Las Vegas is a true out-and-back course, so I'm sure anything is possible.

Keels, you know I have someone like this in my life too. She hasn't cut a course I am aware of, she just gets swept and tells people she finished. But if your person is cheating she is pushing someone back a corral that actually did the work to earn it. And if she I trying to cheat to BQ that is unacceptable. If you know she is doing it you need to tell someone, whether its the race director or BAA, if she does qualify. They will investigate it for sure. But you should be very certain.

 

[JulieODC]

QOTD: I ran in high school - cross country, winter track, and springs track - so my running was all geared towards competition. Recently, I had an epiphany that slow is ok, and run/walk is ok - it isn't all about being faster, faster, faster. That made me feel so much more confident and is what got me to sign up for the PHM.

@Waiting2goback - happy to see another MA person here! I'm in the metro west area...

 

[Waiting2goback]

QOTD: I ran in high school - cross country, winter track, and springs track - so my running was all geared towards competition. Recently, I had an epiphany that slow is ok, and run/walk is ok - it isn't all about being faster, faster, faster. That made me feel so much more confident and is what got me to sign up for the PHM.

@Waiting2goback - happy to see another MA person here! I'm in the metro west area...

There are a couple of us from MA and a few more from New England. What do you have lined up for local races if any?

 

[Kathymford]

ack Daniels - Principles of maximum duration training per session, 5K training

It may be the wine talking (REALLY bad few weeks at work. Like, pick a new career, go back to school type bad), but this made me chuckle. Also, your list of things you take into account when creating a plan for complete "strangers" is inspiring to me. I will be contacting you after Dumbo.

It doesn't really matter. I am not working right now so for me to get up at 4 or 5 isn't a big deal. I'll set my alarm, call and yell at you with my Boston accent and go back to sleep. The truth is, I am usually up any way. I can't sleep with this anchor on my leg. It feels like it weighs 100 pounds.

Just. AWESOME. Also, wine talking. *filling up a second glass* #notarunday

 

[JulieODC]

Not much right now! Just a 10k in October in Foxboro (to get a POT for the PHM) - but I am keeping my eyes open for more, especially nearby local races.

 

[Miranda]

@Waiting2goback - happy to see another MA person here! I'm in the metro west area...

Yes, like Waiting2goback said there are a few of us MA/New Englanders! I am up in Seacoast NH.

 

[LSUlakes]

It doesn't really matter. I am not working right now so for me to get up at 4 or 5 isn't a big deal. I'll set my alarm, call and yell at you with my Boston accent and go back to sleep. The truth is, I am usually up any way. I can't sleep with this anchor on my leg. It feels like it weighs 100 pounds.

I've been to Boston twice, both times for the Boston Marathon. Team ALF 2013 and 2014! I love the accent of folks from Boston, and the hard times the fans gave to the Yankees. It was highly entertaining. I thought the word "wicked" was just a tourist slogan, but its legit. Car keys = Khakis, and not to mention how beer is pronounced.. lol Love it all. As tourist we did the touristy thing and took the duck tour and my favorite part was when we are in the water and the lady says, "And over there is where we keep all our wicked smaaart people". I believe the reference was to MIT / Harvard. I may just take you up on that offer just to hear the accent. I send you a PM at some point during the weekend.

Thanks!

 

[asheleycs]

Hello fellow researcher!

I use Excel to figure out training plans for myself and others. Here's a sample of how I do it.

View attachment 186066

View attachment 186067

I use excel to track race performance.

View attachment 186068

I also have used excel to determine carb needs for marathons, my current diet scheme, and tracking my HR vs performance to be able to figure out future performance. I've also broken down the Hansons pace table into a calculator based system that allows me to input anyone's 5K, 10K, HM, or M PRs to determine optimal training pacing based on their current fitness.

Needless to say, I got data!

I use Strava and Garmin to upload and review the data.

As always, if anyone is interested in seeing what I come up with for a custom training plan based on your current fitness, time available to train, and current goals, just send me a PM. Helping others make training plans is a hobby of mine. It doesn't matter if you're training for a 5K or a marathon, and it doesn't matter if you're training for a sub 50 min 5K or a sub 2:30 marathon. I aim to help anyone who wants to give me that opportunity.

This whole post makes me almost as happy as Disney! (When I say I'm a researcher, I mean it. Full-scale, data geek, academic researcher.) I'm going to send you a PM.

 

[asheleycs]

@asheleycs... and don't be scared off by @DopeyBadger's running mileage in his "sample." We are not all as crazy as he is.

Well, today I learned I can run 20 minutes without walking, so I'm definitely on a different level! But while I might never have that level of crazy mileage-wise, I totally would tracking-wise.

 

[keahgirl8]

I'm a day late, but I'm going to use the QOTD to introduce myself. I've been reading for months, but it's a little hard to join in when I still don't think of myself as a real runner. I'm signed up for the GSC, and have lots of big dreams in my head. (Can I do Dopey in 2018? Maybe I can do ALL of them? LOL.)

I started training in May. Of course, I have no clue what I'm doing, so it's kind of a mix of C25K (right now) and Galloway's run/walk/run and just increasing distance. I'm going to run a local 10K in mid-September for proof of time, but my goal is really just to finish in the upright position. I'm about 80 pounds overweight, so I'm definitely not fast!

QOTD: What are your goals as it relates to running for the month of August?

1) Keep running, especially increasing the "long" runs in preparation for the 10K.

I guess I only have that goal--don't quit. There are probably others I should have, but I don't know what they are!

If you run, you're a runner. Period.

I think you're right on track and you have great goals! Don't worry about how fast you are. Keep moving and it will get easier and the weight will start coming off.

Welcome! Thanks for reading along and starting to post. Remember this, you put on your shoes and get out there and run... you ARE A RUNNER! I know how you feel though and I completely understand. I wouldn't run the popular running area in town until I felt like I belonged there. Looking back on it now, that seems silly. I still have yet to meet a fellow runner that is not encouraging and helpful!

Yes! Excactly! I have heard stories about runners that are not encouraging, but I haven't met any of them! Lucky me, I guess!

On our trip in January we stayed at the Wilderness Lodge, but my aunt stayed at the Cabins. One of the days after the marathon, I decided to go for a run from my resort to the camp grounds to see her. First, you will not be disappointed with the wildlife you will see out on the paths. I saw two different species of deer and a turkey. None of which are scared of people. I guess not being hunted will do that for a animal. The paths are in great condition. The cabins themselves are nice and from what my aunt tells me they recently upgraded some of them. You have plenty of parking, and nearly everything you will need to cook at the cabin. You also have a BBQ pit of your own. They also have boat access to MK and plenty of neat things at the camp grounds that other resorts don't have. I wanted to stay there for our next trip but for just the three of us, it didn't work out with our budget. Plenty of places to run as compared to most resorts other than just the path connecting the camp ground to the wilderness lodge when needing to get in a few miles.

I think maybe I'll head over there for a run one of these days!

This. I agree 100% and it is what I have in my head when I run a race. Don't worry about how anyone else around you is running, "run your race".

Great advice! So many people get so uptight and worried about what other people are doing. If it's not affecting me (ie. someone being unsafe in a way that I or others could get hurt), I just don't care.

ATTQOTD: From Jeff Galloway, in the few minutes I was able to speak with him at the expo before my first 1/2 marathon: "You can do this. Your running is in here (points to my heart), and in here (points to my head). And so don't worry, because you have it in you now."

He said lots of other wonderful things, but this really stuck with me. He managed to be my coach and find the right words, and we had just met!


LSUlakes, would you be able to add two races coming up? Thank you!
-sourire-
9/4: Disneyland half marathon
10/16: Hershey half marathon

Isn't he great? I didn't think I had an answer to this question, but I just remembered what he said to me! I met him at the PHM expo a couple of years ago. He told me to just get out there and enjoy it! That's what I try to do. I don't worry about speed at all. I just run at a pace that feels good. I'm not trying to be in the Olympics or qualify for Boston. I run because I enjoy it. I have all the respect in the world for people who want to be fast, but that's just never been my goal.

Aw, Coach Charles...miss that guy. I use that quote leading up to every marathon now!

I missed the original quote on this one, but I love that! The hay is in the barn! I'll have to remember that one!

Can I both like and dislike a post? I have been tracking my runs for decades, but your spreadsheets make me look like a slacker.

I've only just started tracking my runs. I got a Runners World planner on clearance. That's pretty much the reason I'm doing it. lol

Course cutting confuses me so so much. If you only want to run 6 miles let's say...sign up for a 10k. There's no shame in a 10k...or a 5k...or a 1 miler...or just training and not racing at all. There's lots of cool races that give out awesome swag for shorter distances (I should know) and Disney has some awesome shorter distance medals too. But I know that's not what you are asking.

I don't get it either. I was doing a 10K once and it was one of those deals where the 5K people and 10K people shared the course until the turnaround. We were going through a residential area, and there was a turn where we could see some of the runners who were on their way back. A group of people cut the course. I just thought that was crazy, because they could have just signed up for the 5K at half the cost. There was no medal and we all got the same shirt!

 

[LSUlakes]

Nothing like finishing the days run at 11:00 PM at night. Thankfully I am off of work tomorrow and just have a recovery run scheduled.

 

[slpmail]

re: QOTD

Thanks to all for the "slow down" advice. As a newby, I haven't heard that yet but it helps me figure things out. As I've been increasing distance on my long runs, I've been just naturally "slacking" on my midweek maintenance runs. (Same time put in, but less distance) I was worried but feel reassured now!

Best advice I've gotten so far: INTERVALS!!! Once I learned about them, and that "run/walk" still counted as running, then it all became possible.

Another bit of advice - I don't know how true this is but it makes me smile:
"In the first half of your race, don't be an idiot. In the second half of your race, don't be a wimp."

 

[DopeyBadger]

With @LSUlakes permission, today's QOTD.

QOTD: Share your date and data (or experience) from your very first training run (during your most recent attempt to start running). So this may not necessarily be your first run in high school (etc.), if you since had taken a very long break between then and when you started up again.

The purpose is two-fold:
1) To remind oneself how far they've come. This improvement could be pace, distance at certain pace, HR at pace, etc.
2) To show others what you're doing now, isn't what you were doing when you first started.

ATTQOTD: I tried to run in the summer of 2009. I ended up running maybe a total of 6 times that summer with an average distance/pace of around 2 miles in 24-25 minutes. But unfortunately, I don't have any data from then. However, June 27th, 2012 is the date that I first decided to try this whole running thing again. Below is my data:



This is where I started. I don't remember this run specifically. But I do remember that I had to take many walking breaks because I was so out of breath. Each of those spikes on the pace graph is a walking break (because the fastest pace is the lowest on this odd graph). This was an all-out-effort, because I know back then that's all I tried to do everyday. I've looked at this run maybe 10-20 times in my life because I always like to remind myself on the bad running days that my bad running days now, are no where near where I began. It's nice to give myself perspective.

Edited to add: I realized a few years later that my Runtastic app was about 5% off from reality. Which means the real data for this run is:

Mile 1- 10:13 min/mile
Mile 2- 11:29 min/mile
Mile 3- 13:16 min/mile
Distance- 2.58 miles

 

[Chasing Dopey]

Great question. I build my training plans and racing principles based on the following influences:

Hansons - Principles of pacing, training plan design, during marathon carbohydrate calculations
Stephen Seiler - Principles of balance in training plans (80% Easy and 20% Hard)
Jack Daniels - Principles of maximum duration training per session, 5K training
Arthur Lydiard - Principles of Specialization
Steve Magness - Principles of Adaptation and Principles of choosing what type of training is best for an individual
Jeff Gaudette - Running technique (foot strike, breathing, shoulders, arms, eyesight), Principles of Aerobic and Anaerobic running and why warm-ups are important
Hadd - Principles of choosing what type of training is best for an individual
Pete Magill - 5K training
Samuele Marcora - Psychobiological Model (motivation and perception of effort)
Benjamin Rapoport - During marathon carbohydrate calculations
Timothy Fairchild - Western Australian carbohydrate loading procedure for pre-running carb loading

Typically I ask a set of questions like the following when someone approaches me looking for a training plan:

1) What is your "A" goal?
2) What are some of your other running goals?
3) What are your lifetime PRs?
4) What are all of your race times in the last year? If any of the races had extenuating circumstances (weather, sick, super hilly, etc.) as to why they are not a good judge of your fitness please include that information as well.
5) What went wrong in your best races? What held you back from doing better? Did you feel the reason you couldn't go faster was because a) you were out of breath, b) your legs felt dead tired, or c) some other reason/combination of the two?
6) Have you had any recent injuries or do you feel over the long term you are injury prone?
7) If you've suffered chronic or a recent injury was the cause running related (because we want to avoid it then)?
8) How many and which days are you willing to run each week? How much time on those specific days are you willing to devote to running?
9) What fueling do you do during runs? What fueling do you do after runs? What fueling do you do before you run?
10) Are there specific types of runs that make you feel more fatigued than others?
11) Why do you enjoy running? What is your motivation to run?
12) Why have you chosen the goals you've chosen?
13) What type of technology do you use to run? Treadmill, garmin, heart rate monitor, phone app run tracker, etc.
14) Are there any types of fuel pre-run, during run, or post-run that you like better than others? What led you to choose these items versus others on the market?
15) For races that provide splits, do you tend to be positive, negative, or even split? Why do you think that is?
16) What other training plans have you used in the past?
17) What kind of training have you been doing the last three weeks? Mileage, pace, etc?
18) If you run/walk. When you run about what pace do you do? When you walk about what pace do you do?
19) If I told you to run as slow as you can, how fast would you be running? This would be at a pace where you're barely breathing differently than normal walking. It feels like you're barely trying.
20) Most importantly, what is your upcoming race schedule? What/when is your next "A" goal race that you want to focus your training towards?

Hope this helps give you an insight into my methodology.

This is great stuff, and even more involved than I thought! Some of these questions really require some reflection. I like it!

 

[FFigawi]

Yes, like Waiting2goback said there are a few of us MA/New Englanders! I am up in Seacoast NH.

If anyone else from New England is running the Beach to Beacon tomorrow, let me know so we can try to meet up.

With @LSUlakes permission, today's QOTD.
QOTD: Share your date and data (or experience) from your very first training run (during your most recent attempt to start running). So this may not necessarily be your first run in high school (etc.), if you since had taken a very long break between then and when you started up again

No data (only used a Timex Ironman watch back then), but my first real run was in February 2005. I ran 2 miles in training for the Monument Ave 10k. My pace was right around 10 min/mile, as were nearly all the rest of my training runs that spring. It wasn't until I began my marathon training a few months later in June that I learned about intervals, tempo runs, and speed work.

 

[CheapRunnerMike]

QOTD: Share your date and data (or experience) from your very first training run (during your most recent attempt to start running). So this may not necessarily be your first run in high school (etc.), if you since had taken a very long break between then and when you started up again.

I didn't have a watch or anything back then, so I have no idea of times, paces or distance. I just remember that my first run was while we were in Mexico for a friend's wedding back in February 2012. I had planned on doing a workout (I was into P90X back then) but decided it was just too dang nice in Mexico to lock myself away in a gym, so I decided I would go for a run around the resort and along the beach. Looking back at the route it was probably around 2 miles. I was hooked though and got out 3 times that week, recruiting my wife as well as a friend to run with me.

 

[Chaitali]

Ooh... I like today's question. I haven't looked back and it's interesting to see. The first run I have on runkeeper was November of 2013. I didn't start training in earnest until January of 2014 but I guess I started trying to run a couple months before that.



These intervals are a little strange but I'm guessing maybe it was a random couch to 5k app I found?

 

[ZellyB]

I also don't have any specific data - I didn't even have a watch back then. I had run/walked the occasional fun 5K and had done some treadmill running when my husband was deployed, but never with any consistency. Then one day I suddenly decided I wanted to try the Galloway method and train for a half marathon. It would have been spring of 2012 when we did our first group run after joining our local Galloway group. It was a 2 mile run doing 2:30/1:00 intervals and I basically barely managed to hang with the group toward the end. Pace was probably around 12:00 or so. I was so frustrated at how much I struggled I really pushed myself to improve on my weekly maintenance runs so I'd do better on the long runs. I pushed so much I ended up with shin splints. Ouch! Lesson learned. But, within a couple of weeks, I was totally hooked on running and haven't really stopped since.

 

[opusone]

QOTD: Share your date and data (or experience) from your very first training run (during your most recent attempt to start running). So this may not necessarily be your first run in high school (etc.), if you since had taken a very long break between then and when you started up again.

Interesting question! I have been running on & off for about 30 years, but my longest break by far was from the end of 2004 until the end of 2009, so about a five year break. This just happens to correspond to when our kiddos were newborn/toddlers (I know... as the father, I have no good excuse).

Based on this QOTD, I just opened Garmin Connect and looked back to my running restart in 2009...

One of My First Runs Back in 2009
Date: November 9, 2009
Distance: 2.4 miles
Average Pace: 10:26 min/mi
Average HR: 145

My Most Recent Run with the Same Average HR
Date: June 30, 2016
Distance: 6.0 miles
Average Pace: 8:32 min/mi
Average HR: 145

So, at the same average HR (i.e. the same effort), I am now about two minutes per mile faster than when I restarted running in 2009... and this is probably understated since the first run was 2.4 miles and the comparison run was 6.0 miles.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

With
[B]QOTD: [/B]Share your date and data (or experience) from your very first training run (during your most recent attempt to start running). So this may not necessarily be your first run in high school (etc.), if you since had taken a very long break between then and when you started up again.

Returning from my broken foot, my first training run after a 3 month layoff was on Feb 22nd of this year. Because I was recovering from a broken bone, I had to start with run/walk intervals on doctors orders. That "run" was 2.5 miles in total distance, but only 15 of the 41 minutes of that was running ( 3 x 5 minute run intervals). My pace on those run intervals was 11:06 minute/mile. My heart rate was an absurd 163 bpm during the run intervals.

To put that into perspective - I have to run better than a 7 minute mile pace to get my heart rate that high now. So, yeah, quite an improvement in the last 6 months.

Thanks for the question. It really is good to be reminded of this sort of thing every now and again.