The Running Thread - 2016

Thanks, to you and everyone else for the warm welcome!

The first thing I'd like to read more about is how you guys plan and track things. (I'm a researcher, so very much a planner who loves data!) I've been using a C25K app, which is fine for the first several weeks, when you are running a minute, walking one, etc. But now that I'm at the level of "run 20 minutes" it's not so useful. I'm using a Gear S2 for HR and GPS. I suppose I'll just have to figure out my plan. :-)

I know getting starting has a decent amount of upfront cost, and once you get started the one that will repeat itself is the shoes. When it comes to GPS watches, go ahead and get one that will give you a lot of data if that's what you like. With that in mind I have a Garmin Forerunner 235. For reviews of GPS watches of any kind, I would recommend looking through this guys reviews http://www.dcrainmaker.com/ . Very detailed reviews. Also, once you get a GPS watch, if using Garmin you can see all your data on Garmin Connect and then use that platform to transfer everything to a site like Strava as well. If you get a watch with Bluetooth tech, it will transfer as soon as your run is saved and within a close distance to your watch, thus allowing you to look at all the nifty data ASAP.

I am in MA so I am pretty sure we are in the same time zone.

I'm in Louisiana, so my 4:00AM is 5:00AM for you.... That would be a little better lol
 
The first thing I'd like to read more about is how you guys plan and track things. (I'm a researcher, so very much a planner who loves data!) I've been using a C25K app, which is fine for the first several weeks, when you are running a minute, walking one, etc. But now that I'm at the level of "run 20 minutes" it's not so useful. I'm using a Gear S2 for HR and GPS. I suppose I'll just have to figure out my plan. :-)
I am not familiar with that HR/GPS, but it may be able to sync with any of the running apps out there. A lot of us use Strava to track stuff... there's a DIS group on there that was linked a little ways back. :)

One of the shortcomings of it in my opinion is the lack of ability to create any kind of training schedule in it. Even in Premium! I thought that I just needed to unlock the feature in Premium in the Training Plans section (I pay for Premium with my MyNB points) but it only lets you join one of the existing plans, and there's only one for each distance 5K/10K/HM/M! So I have just been marking the description of my activities as I do them with "Higdon HM3 - WxDx - activity" (e.g. today was "Higdon HM3 - W1D4 - 3 miles easy", I am doing the Higdon HM3 plan and it was week 1 day 4) to keep track of where I am. I did also plot out most of the workouts in the calendar Garmin Connect, even though I don't use that site much at all other than using it as the sync from my watch to Strava.
 
Thanks, to you and everyone else for the warm welcome!

The first thing I'd like to read more about is how you guys plan and track things. (I'm a researcher, so very much a planner who loves data!) I've been using a C25K app, which is fine for the first several weeks, when you are running a minute, walking one, etc. But now that I'm at the level of "run 20 minutes" it's not so useful. I'm using a Gear S2 for HR and GPS. I suppose I'll just have to figure out my plan. :-)

Hello fellow researcher! :wave:

I use Excel to figure out training plans for myself and others. Here's a sample of how I do it.

Screen Shot 2016-08-04 at 2.27.00 PM.png

Screen Shot 2016-08-04 at 2.27.34 PM.png

I use excel to track race performance.

Screen Shot 2016-08-04 at 2.29.44 PM.png

I also have used excel to determine carb needs for marathons, my current diet scheme, and tracking my HR vs performance to be able to figure out future performance. I've also broken down the Hansons pace table into a calculator based system that allows me to input anyone's 5K, 10K, HM, or M PRs to determine optimal training pacing based on their current fitness.

Needless to say, I got data!

I use Strava and Garmin to upload and review the data.

As always, if anyone is interested in seeing what I come up with for a custom training plan based on your current fitness, time available to train, and current goals, just send me a PM. Helping others make training plans is a hobby of mine. It doesn't matter if you're training for a 5K or a marathon, and it doesn't matter if you're training for a sub 50 min 5K or a sub 2:30 marathon. I aim to help anyone who wants to give me that opportunity.
 
So happy I finally got a chance to run today. At my PTs suggestion, I went to a track so I could easily get in as much or as little as I felt able to and then be near my car to go home. It worked well because my kids had to be with me and they played soccer in the middle while I ran:). My instructions were to warm up walking and then do some specific drills to get my body prepped. Then run a mile at zone 2, walk a half mile, repeat the drills and run another mile. Then cooldown. It worked well. Kids wanted to do the warmup with me so it was slow, but all total, 2 miles run and 2.5 walking and drills. I would say my hip/hamstring/glute felt tight or a little sore, but not painful or crampy like my last run 8 weeks ago after I strained it.

I will run again Friday, then I head to London. I hope to get at least two runs in there. Anyone familiar with the St. James park area of London? Based on where I'm staying, I'd likely run there if feasible.

Saw on Strava that you were back out there, way to go! @sjt22 & Jake (both in the Strava group) are UK-based, so maybe they have some suggestions?


Sorry we don't really know london that well but the parks tend to be big so you should be fine to run there. I would advise early running in london though or you will be doing more of a very slow walk when the crowds pick up. The south bank is also nice to run again if its early.
 

ATTQOTD: I've gotten a LOT of great stuff on this thread, and of course slow down is probably the best piece of advice. However, in trying to think of something different, I remember reading somewhere, "Pick your head up and open your eyes." With all there is to follow with regard to pace, HR, effort, breathing, all that stuff... it's easy to forget how fantastic it is just to be out there, and all there is to see and hear. How great is it moving under an open sky? (Weather permitting, of course. I've been on an in indoor track almost exclusively this summer. Heh.)

As always, if anyone is interested in seeing what I come up with for a custom training plan based on your current fitness, time available to train, and current goals, just send me a PM. Helping others make training plans is a hobby of mine. It doesn't matter if you're training for a 5K or a marathon, and it doesn't matter if you're training for a sub 50 min 5K or a sub 2:30 marathon. I aim to help anyone who wants to give me that opportunity.

@DopeyBadger: I've got a couple questions that I put here as some may be curious about the same things. First, what resources do you pull from when you build plans? You mentioned Hanson's, but I wonder what other influences you might have. Second, what information do you need to build a plan for someone? TIA

EDIT: Actually... anyone can answer this about their training. (This may have been a QOTD once. I'm not sure.) I started with Jeff Galloway, but am starting to branch out.
 
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@LSUlakes

I never did send these!

10/9/16 - @Chasing Dopey - Army Ten Miler (Goal: Enjoy the scenery.)
11/5-6/16 - @Chasing Dopey - Wine & Dine: Lumiere’s Challenge (Goal: Awesome costumes.)
1/5-8/17 - @Chasing Dopey - WDW Dopey Challenge! (Goal: Finish it!)
2/25-26/17 - @Chasing Dopey - Glass Slipper Challenge (Goal: Look good in a tutu.)

Now DW and I have to decide if we want to be legacy runners for Dark Side. We have a problem.
 
Thanks, to you and everyone else for the warm welcome!

The first thing I'd like to read more about is how you guys plan and track things. (I'm a researcher, so very much a planner who loves data!) I've been using a C25K app, which is fine for the first several weeks, when you are running a minute, walking one, etc. But now that I'm at the level of "run 20 minutes" it's not so useful. I'm using a Gear S2 for HR and GPS. I suppose I'll just have to figure out my plan. :-)

Hello fellow researcher! :wave:

I use Excel to figure out training plans for myself and others. Here's a sample of how I do it.

@asheleycs... and don't be scared off by @DopeyBadger's running mileage in his "sample." We are not all as crazy as he is.
 
OK, y'all ...

Would you ever report someone you knew to a race director for a serious course-cutting infraction resulting in a a massive PoT improvement. This was only on the half (RnR Las Vegas), but I have a feeling she's going to try it again this year for the full in an attempt to BQ.

She "ran" RnR LV half in 1:58 last year. Her other half times are 3:58, 4:05 and 4:18. I mean, it's pretty obvious she course cut at LV because she has no timing mat segments and no on-course pictures.

WWYD?

She was planning to run Dopey in 2017, which is why I think she went for that PoT. But she also recently changed her tune and I believe it's because she may have been banned from RD after she got busted course-cutting during Princess in 2015 (she had a half result, but is now completely gone from the site).
 
OK, y'all ...

Would you ever report someone you knew to a race director for a serious course-cutting infraction resulting in a a massive PoT improvement. This was only on the half (RnR Las Vegas), but I have a feeling she's going to try it again this year for the full in an attempt to BQ.

She "ran" RnR LV half in 1:58 last year. Her other half times are 3:58, 4:05 and 4:18. I mean, it's pretty obvious she course cut at LV because she has no timing mat segments and no on-course pictures.

WWYD?

She was planning to run Dopey in 2017, which is why I think she went for that PoT. But she also recently changed her tune and I believe it's because she may have been banned from RD after she got busted course-cutting during Princess in 2015 (she had a half result, but is now completely gone from the site).

Course cutting confuses me so so much. If you only want to run 6 miles let's say...sign up for a 10k. There's no shame in a 10k...or a 5k...or a 1 miler...or just training and not racing at all. There's lots of cool races that give out awesome swag for shorter distances (I should know) and Disney has some awesome shorter distance medals too. But I know that's not what you are asking.

My suggestion would be to give the RnR people some more time to find it on their own. And the next time you talk with this person mention how amazing their improvement in time was and see what the response is. If they fess up to course cutting, ask them what they'd do if they got caught. But I wouldn't go straight to reporting it.

I get the internal angries and I don't know this person, so I understand where you are coming from.
 
OK, y'all ...

Would you ever report someone you knew to a race director for a serious course-cutting infraction resulting in a a massive PoT improvement. This was only on the half (RnR Las Vegas), but I have a feeling she's going to try it again this year for the full in an attempt to BQ.

She "ran" RnR LV half in 1:58 last year. Her other half times are 3:58, 4:05 and 4:18. I mean, it's pretty obvious she course cut at LV because she has no timing mat segments and no on-course pictures.

WWYD?

She was planning to run Dopey in 2017, which is why I think she went for that PoT. But she also recently changed her tune and I believe it's because she may have been banned from RD after she got busted course-cutting during Princess in 2015 (she had a half result, but is now completely gone from the site).

I would report it to the race director on race day if I was a witness to the infraction. If I didn't actually witness it, I probably wouldn't say anything (i.e. I would need to be pretty sure before ever suggesting that someone cheated). I guess if I was 95+% sure it happened AND the person was possibly going to get an award, I might just suggest to the race director that (s)he checks mat timing and any photo checks.
 
I would report it to the race director on race day if I was a witness to the infraction. If I didn't actually witness it, I probably wouldn't say anything (i.e. I would need to be pretty sure before ever suggesting that someone cheated). I guess if I was 95+% sure it happened AND the person was possibly going to get an award, I might just suggest to the race director that (s)he checks mat timing and any photo checks.

Excellent point. Even if I was 99% convinced something nefarious went on, I'd feel really bad if maybe she actually finished in 4+ hour pace but took the SAG wagon (what RnR calls them) further up the course and got a better time. I know this happens with RnR races in my area at least...they drive you up the course instead of sweeping you. I have not idea how it affects age place times though, and never really thought about that until now???
 
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OK, y'all ...

Would you ever report someone you knew to a race director for a serious course-cutting infraction resulting in a a massive PoT improvement. This was only on the half (RnR Las Vegas), but I have a feeling she's going to try it again this year for the full in an attempt to BQ.

She "ran" RnR LV half in 1:58 last year. Her other half times are 3:58, 4:05 and 4:18. I mean, it's pretty obvious she course cut at LV because she has no timing mat segments and no on-course pictures.

WWYD?

She was planning to run Dopey in 2017, which is why I think she went for that PoT. But she also recently changed her tune and I believe it's because she may have been banned from RD after she got busted course-cutting during Princess in 2015 (she had a half result, but is now completely gone from the site).

At this point all you can prove is to a degree in which she cut a course to run a 1:58 half. Odds are that did not win her $$ or AG awards, so I doubt RNR folks are going to go out of their way to DQ her from the past results. What is her BQ time? If shes under 50 at that pace, even with cheating I think she would struggle to get in just below 4 hours. If over 50 it could be close. The sad thing is, by the time you find out she cheats, and then registers for Boston, it would likely take to long for them to Ban her before the next running. There is a guy online that spends a great amount of time busting cheaters for Boston that you may want to check out. First things first, shes gotta post a full marathon time, and then after that, the "investigation" to how legit it is can begin.

For the life me, I'll never understand why someone would cheat in running...
 
At this point all you can prove is to a degree in which she cut a course to run a 1:58 half. Odds are that did not win her $$ or AG awards, so I doubt RNR folks are going to go out of their way to DQ her from the past results. What is her BQ time? If shes under 50 at that pace, even with cheating I think she would struggle to get in just below 4 hours. If over 50 it could be close. The sad thing is, by the time you find out she cheats, and then registers for Boston, it would likely take to long for them to Ban her before the next running. There is a guy online that spends a great amount of time busting cheaters for Boston that you may want to check out. First things first, shes gotta post a full marathon time, and then after that, the "investigation" to how legit it is can begin.

For the life me, I'll never understand why someone would cheat in running...

She's my age, so her BQ time would need to be something like 3:24 minimum.

Las Vegas is a true out-and-back course, so I'm sure anything is possible.
 
Holy guacamole I did it!! I caught up! I have been trying to catch up to the end since Tuesday!! Man ... taking a 4-day weekend is ROUGH around here. :goodvibes So here it goes!!

QOTD: What are some interesting weather events you have witnessed while out for a run?

Coming from Southern California, we don't really get changing seasons (I think most people know this). Well, we have California seasons. Mud Slides, Fires, Santa Ana winds, etc. Well, it's fire season now and on my beach run a couple of weeks ago, this was the view: those are brown clouds over the water from a fire that was a good 44 miles away. Sorry that image is so large. lol
Fire Beach.jpg


I did keep running in the rain once. I felt so proud. Wait, it's California rain, so "rain" is more appropriate.

I find to really cut down on transition times you should just wear your bike helmet in the water too. Another good tip would be to visit the hospital the day before after packet pick-up to get a pre-filled-out medical bracelet and to reserve your room/pre-order your preferred blood type. Really cut down transition time into the ER that way. I'm full of really good triathlon tips if you need more.

:rotfl:

So I come away impressed by anyone that's running no matter what. Everyone one of you impresses me!

And answers like this is why I love this thread.

QOTD: What is the best advice a fellow runner has given to you?

I'm sure it came from this or the 2016 Marathon weekend thread whatever it was. There have been too many to choose from. The main one that I'm still learning is just how mental running is. If you have any doubt in your mind about what you are doing, it will DEFINITELY come out while you're running, especially if it's a new distance. I have learned that I am VERY weak mentally. I mean, I knew that, but I've REALLY learned it.

Also since Zelly B brought up Disney (yay)...has anyone stayed in the cabins at fort wilderness before? Or even the lodge. The idea for our large family trip Oct. 2017 is being tossed around to try this resort. We'll have like at least 4 runners in our group (non-race weekend) and is the Wilderness area cool for morning runs? Can't believe I've turned into someone who would even as that question :)

It's already been mentioned, but the lodge has TONS of construction right now. I know they are saying 2017 to be done, but I'm just not sure that that's true. Ft. Wilderness though is not affected by it. There are a few threads on the lodge here on the DIS that I follow (it's my home resort for DVC), so let me know if you would like any of those.

*****

My July totals were abysmal, since that I was mostly still injured. I've been finding it really hard to get back into a regular running routine, but Dumbo is now 30 days away, so I know I need to try and get some conditioning back. I'm not nearly as excited about this race as I should be because of the injury. But the medal reveal helped a lot!! The good news is I did go out for my run yesterday and I had ZERO pain in my formerly injured leg. That was a great relief. My conditioning is definitely down as I couldn't even run a full lap at the track. I think I will definitely have to use my slower intervals to just get through Dumbo.

The thing about being injured though, is I seemed to have found some proper running form, and I think it's made me faster. I'm really focusing on keeping my stride short. It doesn't feel natural, but it feels easier. Wait. Does that make sense? It tires my legs even more quickly though. But that could also be the almost month I have take off.
 
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@DopeyBadger: I've got a couple questions that I put here as some may be curious about the same things. First, what resources do you pull from when you build plans? You mentioned Hanson's, but I wonder what other influences you might have. Second, what information do you need to build a plan for someone? TIA

Great question. I build my training plans and racing principles based on the following influences:

Hansons - Principles of pacing, training plan design, during marathon carbohydrate calculations
Stephen Seiler - Principles of balance in training plans (80% Easy and 20% Hard)
Jack Daniels - Principles of maximum duration training per session, 5K training
Arthur Lydiard - Principles of Specialization
Steve Magness - Principles of Adaptation and Principles of choosing what type of training is best for an individual
Jeff Gaudette - Running technique (foot strike, breathing, shoulders, arms, eyesight), Principles of Aerobic and Anaerobic running and why warm-ups are important
Hadd - Principles of choosing what type of training is best for an individual
Pete Magill - 5K training
Samuele Marcora - Psychobiological Model (motivation and perception of effort)
Benjamin Rapoport - During marathon carbohydrate calculations
Timothy Fairchild - Western Australian carbohydrate loading procedure for pre-running carb loading

Typically I ask a set of questions like the following when someone approaches me looking for a training plan:

1) What is your "A" goal?
2) What are some of your other running goals?
3) What are your lifetime PRs?
4) What are all of your race times in the last year? If any of the races had extenuating circumstances (weather, sick, super hilly, etc.) as to why they are not a good judge of your fitness please include that information as well.
5) What went wrong in your best races? What held you back from doing better? Did you feel the reason you couldn't go faster was because a) you were out of breath, b) your legs felt dead tired, or c) some other reason/combination of the two?
6) Have you had any recent injuries or do you feel over the long term you are injury prone?
7) If you've suffered chronic or a recent injury was the cause running related (because we want to avoid it then)?
8) How many and which days are you willing to run each week? How much time on those specific days are you willing to devote to running?
9) What fueling do you do during runs? What fueling do you do after runs? What fueling do you do before you run?
10) Are there specific types of runs that make you feel more fatigued than others?
11) Why do you enjoy running? What is your motivation to run?
12) Why have you chosen the goals you've chosen?
13) What type of technology do you use to run? Treadmill, garmin, heart rate monitor, phone app run tracker, etc.
14) Are there any types of fuel pre-run, during run, or post-run that you like better than others? What led you to choose these items versus others on the market?
15) For races that provide splits, do you tend to be positive, negative, or even split? Why do you think that is?
16) What other training plans have you used in the past?
17) What kind of training have you been doing the last three weeks? Mileage, pace, etc?
18) If you run/walk. When you run about what pace do you do? When you walk about what pace do you do?
19) If I told you to run as slow as you can, how fast would you be running? This would be at a pace where you're barely breathing differently than normal walking. It feels like you're barely trying.
20) Most importantly, what is your upcoming race schedule? What/when is your next "A" goal race that you want to focus your training towards?

Hope this helps give you an insight into my methodology.
 












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