The Running Thread - 2016

[cburnett11]

- For those with the Garmin 235, have you tried out the "Finish Time" function? Does it track your race like a normal run? If the race is long or short what happens? Is it safe to assume it saves your run like a normal run?

I don't know if this is just a different way of getting at the same thing, but I have downloaded Race Predictors from the Connect IQ to my Garmin 230 and thought they worked pretty well. You can use them for the typical race distances. I've used both the half and full marathon versions. Once I get it on my watch, I just add it as another data field on one of my screens. I think it works pretty well and it is not just something like; actual cumulative performance + current pace x remaining miles. According to the description on the Connect IQ page for the "Marathon Race Predictor" it says:

Predicts your estimated marathon finish time while you are running the race. No longer do you need to manually calculate your finish time...now you will know 30 seconds into your race if you are on pace to crush your old PR or not.​

Estimated time is not simply based on current speed. It takes multiple pieces of data into account including your average speed of the entire race, your average speed over the last 60 seconds and the time it has taken to run the current distance. It then mixes those numbers together and comes up with an estimated finish time. Of course if your pace fluctuates a lot minute to minute then the predictor will fluctuate with your pace.
​

Obviously if you don't run the tangents and the course is true (or the course is not measured properly), it will be off at the end. I don't really recall what happens when you reach 26.2 and you are still running. Usually by that time in a race I'm either too fatigued to care about a data screen telling me I'm going slow, or I'm running as quickly as I can to the finish line and not looking at my watch. I found it to be another tool I can use if I want it. If you start to get lazy during a race you can watch the predicted finish time increase, but you can reverse that pretty easily if you pickup the pace.

 

[dmross]

Since so many of us are focused on the heat and humidity, have any of you used the Outsider app? It's by The Weather Channel, but it rates running conditions for every hour on a 1-10 scale. You can customize it by changing what comfortable is for you. I almost consider it a challenge when it's rated at a 5 or below, and I'm pretty proud when I've managed to get out there.

I just saw that feature this week! It gives green circles and yellow circles, right? I will say that switching back to AM this week felt pretty good in spite of the humidity. I ran at 5 AM both days.

This happened for me in June - about half of my runs no longer include walk breaks, and my walk breaks are now limited to one minute per mile run, so I am getting there. I feel so much better when I can just run. Walk breaks are important when building strength after an injury, but for me they make the shorter runs feel longer.

I have to admit, walk breaks make long runs more fun. I will probably keep using the one minute/mile breaks on runs longer than 10 miles. I just feel like I feel stronger at the end of those runs when I take the walk breaks but, more importantly, I enjoy those runs more when I take the walk breaks. For some reason, I stay more loose and seem to enjoy everything more - the trail, the scenery, other people who I come across - everything.

Walk/Run will always stay in my toolbox. It's so valuable as an option after injury or on days when conditions are very bad or you made bad choices and stayed up too late the night before your long run playing XBox with your demanding spouse. As Jeff Galloway maintains, "you still get the benefits when you insert walk breaks." And I guarantee you when I'm 65, I'll do walk intervals if it means I can keep running.

ATTQOTD: Run the race that you have been training for! So if you have been training for 10 min miles, now is not the time to try for 8 min miles at the last second. Don't let the athletic looking people around you intimidate you into scrapping whatever your plan is. The adrenaline and excitement can naturally make you faster which is okay and an exciting by-product of the race environment, but if you realize out the gate that you are huffing and puffing way more than in your training it might be a good idea to back yourself to the feeling of effort you get when you are doing your normal neighborhood runs. You can then save the big push in pace for the final mile(s) and strong finish.
It takes practice...I'm still learning that lesson
Oh and YOU WILL GET A PR no matter what! That's the best part.

Yes! That is great advice! For some reason there's a temptation to diverge from your plan at the start line... Stick to your plan for the race.

I don't know if this is just a different way of getting at the same thing, but I have downloaded Race Predictors from the Connect IQ to my Garmin 230 and thought they worked pretty well. You can use them for the typical race distances. I've used both the half and full marathon versions. Once I get it on my watch, I just add it as another data field on one of my screens. I think it works pretty well and it is not just something like; actual cumulative performance + current pace x remaining miles. According to the description on the Connect IQ page for the "Marathon Race Predictor" it says:

Predicts your estimated marathon finish time while you are running the race. No longer do you need to manually calculate your finish time...now you will know 30 seconds into your race if you are on pace to crush your old PR or not.​

Estimated time is not simply based on current speed. It takes multiple pieces of data into account including your average speed of the entire race, your average speed over the last 60 seconds and the time it has taken to run the current distance. It then mixes those numbers together and comes up with an estimated finish time. Of course if your pace fluctuates a lot minute to minute then the predictor will fluctuate with your pace.
​

Obviously if you don't run the tangents and the course is true (or the course is not measured properly), it will be off at the end. I don't really recall what happens when you reach 26.2 and you are still running. Usually by that time in a race I'm either too fatigued to care about a data screen telling me I'm going slow, or I'm running as quickly as I can to the finish line and not looking at my watch. I found it to be another tool I can use if I want it. If you start to get lazy during a race you can watch the predicted finish time increase, but you can reverse that pretty easily if you pickup the pace.

I see now that I am under utilizing my hardware. Good information.

 

[keahgirl8]

Walk/Run will always stay in my toolbox. It's so valuable as an option after injury or on days when conditions are very bad or you made bad choices and stayed up too late the night before your long run playing XBox with your demanding spouse. As Jeff Galloway maintains, "you still get the benefits when you insert walk breaks." And I guarantee you when I'm 65, I'll do walk intervals if it means I can keep running.

I am an interval runner. Period. I always will be! Intervals make running enjoyable to me.

Yes! That is great advice! For some reason there's a temptation to diverge from your plan at the start line... Stick to your plan for the race.

So true! In my first 5K, I thought I could double my run interval mid-race. That was dumb. My time was great, but I felt like I was going to die and almost didn't finish.

 

[Miranda]

Man, those Olympic Trials 10K guys have time to run the race and go out for ice cream and I'd still be finishing up my 5K.

 

[Keels]

I like that Rupp basically infuriated the British commentator because he was planning to run the Marathon, 10K and possibly the 5K as well. Greatness. He's just missing a half and he'd be Olympic Dopey!!!

 

[Waiting2goback]

I am 49 years old, so being ripped isn't the goal. But I'm happy with what I see when I look in the mirror, and that is all that matters in that regard, right? But I exercise for different reasons. Men in my family tend to die young, and I want to ensure that I manage the things within my control to avoid that. So I manage stress and my health every day. I try to eat right, I exercise and I get enough sleep.

I realize being healthy is the ultimate goal. It's awesome you are able to do that. I do want to be ripped once in my life. I want to prove to myself I can do it and I want to prove it to someone else that said I would never ever get below 200 lbs again. And, worst case scenario, it gives me a constant goal to shoot for and I will never get bored.

Just noticed that I wasn't alone doing the BAA 10k on Sunday!! I wish I had known so I could've said hello!!

I'll most likely be doing it next year, does that help?

I agree that I cannot wrap my brain around why people would lie or cheat with running just to get a medal or bragging rights? But I'm the kind of person who willingly will post about my terrible races as freely as my great ones. And I don't hold back telling people when I had a bad run or decided a distance just wasn't for me yet. I'll also post embarassing pictures of me caught by marathofoto because I think it's funny. I appreciate when posters here share their milestones and victories but I also really appreciate when someone posts something that didn't go well that I can learn from and relate to. So, yeah, the lying I don't understand.
And now a rambling tangent: I think it is very important in the culture of instagram and twitter and facebook where people can spend hours doctoring perfect images of snapshots in time that there are people also sharing their defeats, their real un-filtered experiences, their human quirks, their burnt dinners along with all the pretty pictures and perfect stories (I love those too, don't get me wrong!) I hope my daughter can grow up knowing she doesn't have to be perfect...because it will make those times when she earns something great with hard work all the sweeter for her.



I like everything everyone else has posted. I would add that if you run/walk...start your race with a run interval. Seems intuitive but I've seen people do the opposite and it gets clogged up.
Also, if you want to pose for a photographer on course while running or walking...make sure you don't whip your hand or legs out into another runner. Never happened to me but I hear about it all the time

I read many stories of people cheating to get a BQ this year. I would never cheat to get a BQ because it is disrespecting the people who work their butts off to actually do it. But some people are just selfish and dishonest. You can't avoid them.

On the subject of etiquette and selfishness, I was running at the BAA and a lady just completely cut me off so she could pose for a picture for someone watching the race on the sidewalk. I don't know how I avoided her and she is lucky I did because if I ran into her she would have been injured. I am 220 lbs (I lost 4.5 lbs this month ) and she was a lot smaller. People are just so inconsiderate sometimes so it is no surprise that people would lie about stuff to make themselves feel better. But, as I said the other day, they are the ones that lose out. Sure, they may have their medal and they may have gotten a few minutes of attention for it but they know deep down that they didn't earn it. That would eat away at me. As it is, it bothers me I am missing races I signed up for because of injury.

Just a few comments I'd like to share:
- A lot of you have put in some serious work in the month of June, so I just wanted to say congrats!
- I also have enjoyed reading the supportive comments and solid advice that has been shared over the last few days. It has been helpful to our newer runners/posters as well as the experienced folks.
- When I first came up with the idea for this thread, I never thought it would get this much attention. I more or less thought it would end up turning into a type of journal with my comments making up 50% of the text. I can promise you no one wants to read that much stuff from me. lol
- Looks like everyone is really starting to gear up their training, and even though not everyone is running a race @ WDW this January, most of us still have a goal race near that time frame. The timing works out well as we all get to experience each others highs and lows that come with training.

A few questions I would like to ask:
- For those with the Garmin 235, have you tried out the "Finish Time" function? Does it track your race like a normal run? If the race is long or short what happens? Is it safe to assume it saves your run like a normal run?
- In a effort to continue to improve this thread and the topics discussed within, what suggestion would you make to change something? Maybe more of less of something... idk I'm just looking for suggestions/ideas for the thread.
- How do you feel about the sharing your race results for races listed in the OP? You are not obligates to share them, I am just curious as to why you may not want to.

I believe that is it for now. Thanks again for the feedback.

I love this thread. I think we would have to start a new one next year as I think there is a page limit for a thread, we may not even make it through this year. I like the QOTD but also that others can ask questions on occasion that also spark conversations.



QOTD: What I would tell a new runner before their first race is to believe you can do it. If you want it bad enough you will find a way to finish regardless of what mistakes you might make, as we often make mistakes in our first race or a new distance.

 

[Waiting2goback]

Everyone with a race this weekend have a great race and a safe holiday as well.

 

[Slogger]

QOTD: Its the end of the month and time to post your monthly mileage! If you swim or bike, feel free to include that information as well.

June totals- 124.81 miles (plan called for 121)
10:29 Pace
8 trips to the gym
2 bike activities

Amazing mileage and results for everybody in June!

 

[Slogger]

June Training Report

Running Miles - 215.28 miles (215 scheduled)
Running Time - 30:52:59 (30:58:57 scheduled)
Average Running Pace - 8:36 min/mile

it was questionable if I was going to hit 100% of my mileage because of a lightening storm tonight, but it just gave me extra motivation to finish it fast and well. Success!

Those are amazing results with goals accomplished.
Lightning can be a powerful motivator.

 

[Kathymford]

That features sounds like when we take road trips and our car's gps has estimated arrival time and my hubby makes it a mission to keep getting the arrival time sooner and sooner. Nothing makes him happier than when he beats that gps original estimate.

This is me too. I'm not sure if it's an OCD thing, or that I'm constantly late and I have told someone I will be there in 10 MINUTES and the GPS say 25 minutes! LOL

These photographers are there to capture ACTION, not for you to stop and pose.

THIS. This irks me to no end. It never fails, I see the photographer, I've got a good stride going ... I'm ready to get my one good race photo. NOPE. Jo Jo Bob in front of me decides to stop and pose so I'm never in the photo at all because I keep running. Dang it Jo Jo Bob. Just stop it.

ATTQOTD: It's your first race, it's a PR no matter what happens. Don't get down on yourself; if you're like me you're way undertrained and unprepared, but you're going to love it anyway. And it will just set you up better for your next one.

I LOVE this thread. It's the reason I come to the DIS anymore, really. I would love for people to include more photos. Either of their medals (#irunforbling) or just of the different races and places you are running. I think people ask good questions outside of the QOTD, and those have been great for getting conversations started. All in all, great job on the thread @LSUlakes!!

I found a running podcast in my history that I never listened to that I went back to today (Runners Connect, I think). I found an epidsode on injuries that I wanted to listen to (because I'm obsessive and that's what I'm going through right now). The interesting part for me though was when he talked about swapping shoes for runs. I thought this was to just help the shoes last longer, but he said something interesting. He said that the shoes shouldn't be identical, as that in itself would change up the runs for leg muscles and help you stay injury free. His example was one might have an 8mm drop and another 5mm, etc. I had never thought of that. Anyone have any thoughts on this theory?

 

[DopeyBadger]

I found a running podcast in my history that I never listened to that I went back to today (Runners Connect, I think). I found an epidsode on injuries that I wanted to listen to (because I'm obsessive and that's what I'm going through right now). The interesting part for me though was when he talked about swapping shoes for runs. I thought this was to just help the shoes last longer, but he said something interesting. He said that the shoes shouldn't be identical, as that in itself would change up the runs for leg muscles and help you stay injury free. His example was one might have an 8mm drop and another 5mm, etc. I had never thought of that. Anyone have any thoughts on this theory?

I have read the same advice from Runners Connect and others. I have not seen any scientific evidence either for or against this theory. I use to only have one pair of shoes and never really got injured. However, I do follow it now as I have 4 different types of shoes that I rotate based on what type of run it is and what type of shoe characteristics they have (drop, cushion, weight, heel stack). I still don't really ever get injured. So I guess my philosophy is, if I can't see a reason not to do it, then I guess I'll try the idea until I realize it doesn't work for me. My guess though is there are likely other factors higher on the "reason I got injured" list than shoe characteristic rotation.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Those are amazing results with goals accomplished.
Lightning can be a powerful motivator.

Thanks!

Rupp really did dominate the 10k. I found it surprising that many of the other favorites (Lagat, Mead, Jenkins, Estrada) DNF'd. I wonder if the heat got to them. I think it was around 80. But I guess once they got passed they self-determined they didn't have a chance for 3rd and decided to pack it up. Many of these guys are running in the 5k as well later this week so I guess might as well conserve energy.

Here's the most interesting thing from the 10k. The tape seen on Galen's legs is not KT tape. It's Nike's new wind resistance tape. I've never heard of such a thing. Here is a blurb on ESPN.

The other super surprising result was in the Mens 800m Qualifying (it was on streaming, not NBC/NBCsn) as two of the favorites (Brazier and Solomon) didn't even qualify for the finals. Brazier ran a full 4 seconds slower than he did just a few weeks ago at the NCAA Championships breaking the 50 year old collegiate record. He looked really gassed at the end, a stunning difference from his gliding running style at NCAAs. I was really hoping to see him vs Boris Berian but I guess it just wasn't meant to be.

 

[bellanotte10]

I'll most likely be doing it next year, does that help?

Unfortunately it does not! I'll most like likely be moving out of the Boston area by the end of the year!!! Although I'd love to have a redo of this race. First and only race where I almost didn't finish due to injury. As it is I had to get carted away at the finish line in a wheelchair after curling up in a little ball of pain.

Maybe I will see you next year!

 

[doctorintheTARDIS]

Number One--- thanks for all the advice. I know I would not have stuck with running if it wasn't for you guys. Sometimes I'm on a run and I get excited about the prospect of posting in my training journal in here.

I have a 5k on Saturday and I plan to use all of your advice!

Number Two--- have any of you ever met up at a race? I feel like some of us have to live close, and if not, have to cross paths as Disney races

 

[croach]

Man, those Olympic Trials 10K guys have time to run the race and go out for ice cream and I'd still be finishing up my 5K.

Did you hear the announcers say that Rupp was running 140 miles a week? Multiples 20 milers. Yikes!

 

[baxter24]

Probably just echoing what everyone else has said about race advice but I would say to make sure to get there early enough so you have time to go to the bathroom, find a spot to stretch/warm up, etc. Also, like many others have said, don't start out too fast. Run your own race!

@croach, I heard about how many miles Rupp was running a week and about fell off the couch. I can't even imagine running that much in a month! That dude is a beast!

 

[BuckeyeBama]

I have read the same advice from Runners Connect and others. I have not seen any scientific evidence either for or against this theory. I use to only have one pair of shoes and never really got injured. However, I do follow it now as I have 4 different types of shoes that I rotate based on what type of run it is and what type of shoe characteristics they have (drop, cushion, weight, heel stack). I still don't really ever get injured. So I guess my philosophy is, if I can't see a reason not to do it, then I guess I'll try the idea until I realize it doesn't work for me. My guess though is there are likely other factors higher on the "reason I got injured" list than shoe characteristic rotation.

You can accomplish the exact same thing by running on different surfaces and terrains. No need to have several shoe types to challenge different muscles. The external factor most likely to cause a running injury is the runner's shoes. The more shoe types that a runner has to cycle through each year, the higher the likelihood that one of those pair will cause injury.

Young runners really don't understand the whole injury thing. I didn't either when I was young. I could do anything, wear anything, run faster or slower, sprint without warming up - anything, and I never got injured. Heck, I went through two whole training seasons running in Keds. Look them up. It was like wearing cheap canvas moccasins. Not even a hint of an injury.

When you get older, injury prevention becomes a priority. Changing ANYTHING introduces risk.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

The other super surprising result was in the Mens 800m Qualifying (it was on streaming, not NBC/NBCsn) as two of the favorites (Brazier and Solomon) didn't even qualify for the finals. Brazier ran a full 4 seconds slower than he did just a few weeks ago at the NCAA Championships breaking the 50 year old collegiate record. He looked really gassed at the end, a stunning difference from his gliding running style at NCAAs. I was really hoping to see him vs Boris Berian but I guess it just wasn't meant to be.

I feel terrible for Brazier, but who is to blame? He did not need to run that fast three weeks ago to win, and he shouldn't have knowing that these races were coming up. He will look back on this for the rest of his life with disappointment.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Did you hear the announcers say that Rupp was running 140 miles a week? Multiples 20 milers. Yikes!

Yep, his training is a bit of a mystery but we do know a few things. Runs about 145 miles per week. About 30 miles per week on an underwater treadmill (to reduce body force). Given his pace of his marathon (around 2:07-2:11), he's likely running his 20 mile runs at a pace of 5:27 min/mile, which is a duration of 1:49, and his 23 mile runs around a duration of 2:05. That's the beauty and detriment to being fast. You do such high mileage because to get the same workout as you and me (long run pace @ 120 minutes) he has to run around 23 miles. Given his pace and mileage he is running about 13.5 hours per week, definitely a high training load.

Just remember, in theory, his 5:27 min/mile pace feels the same to him as you running your long run pace. The difference is he's freaky fast.

You can accomplish the exact same thing by running on different surfaces and terrains. No need to have several shoe types to challenge different muscles. The external factor most likely to cause a running injury is the runner's shoes. The more shoe types that a runner has to cycle through each year, the higher the likelihood that one of those pair will cause injury.

Young runners really don't understand the whole injury thing. I didn't either when I was young. I could do anything, wear anything, run faster or slower, sprint without warming up - anything, and I never got injured. Heck, I went through two whole training seasons running in Keds. Look them up. It was like wearing cheap canvas moccasins. Not even a hint of an injury.

When you get older, injury prevention becomes a priority. Changing ANYTHING introduces risk.

Good thoughts! It's true, I have little experience when it comes to injuries and injury prevention. So I'll defer to your opinion.

I feel terrible for Brazier, but who is to blame? He did not need to run that fast three weeks ago to win, and he shouldn't have knowing that these races were coming up. He will look back on this for the rest of his life with disappointment.

It's a good point. He didn't decide to run the Olympic Trials until really late (after the NCAAs). He was originally planning on running World Juniors, but then he did so well at NCAAs that people around him convinced him to go pro (he was a freshman at Texas A&M), cash in, and compete at the OT. But definitely agree that he will look back at this moment and always wonder what if? But he's got the talent that I wouldn't be surprised to see him back again in 4 years.

 

[opusone]

Number Two--- have any of you ever met up at a race? I feel like some of us have to live close, and if not, have to cross paths as Disney races

We had a small group meet-up for Saturday night dinner during the Star Wars Dark Side weekend in April.

I think several folks here get together during Marathon Weekend (last year some got together for DATW). In fact, for the upcoming 2017 Marathon Weekend, @Keels has reserved several boats for the Illuminations fireworks. I hope to someday join the Marathon Weekend crew.