The "rippling" effect is starting

Status
Not open for further replies.
Plutofan said:
I feel bad for those people with 1000+ point contracts. Now people are scared of buying a contract that large. There is one that I think has been posted for over 1 year.
People have been shying away from large contracts since before I first started reading these boards. One of the first posts I ever read here on the DVC boards was about splitting up a large point purchase into multiple smaller contracts because if you ever want to sell, multiple small contracts will sell more quickly than one big one. And, as you pointed out, that 1000 point OKW contract has been up for sale for a year so unless the owner was psychic, that sale is unrelated to recent events, as is the lack of buyers for it.
 
rinkwide said:
There's no doubt, any owner with a contract they've been using for the transfer/rent loophole is going to bailout now while the resale value is still high. DVD may have solved their little MS problem by creating a ROFR monster, at least in the near term.
If so it'd be a poor time to sell most contracts. Things will settle down quickly no matter what happens with this issue. And if this concern works out to be true, I'd say it's likely a good time to buy.
 
I wonder more so what effect the overall new insurance rates in FL. may have on dues. I would think that may send more people packing than an enforcement of a rule that doesn't affect most DVC members. Is DVC self insured?
 

msdis,

What is "the new insurance rates in FL." ?

Is DVC self insured ?

Does anyone have these answers ?
 
This is just one of many articles we have read recently but they all say about the same thing.


Robin Perez fights back tears as she considers packing and leaving the
condominium she has called home for nearly a decade. Soaring insurance costs
are forcing her to think about selling.

"This has turned my life upside down," she said after learning that the new
association fee covering insurance and other costs for her Lake Villas condo
in Altamonte Springs is $5,502.

Perez and other condo owners in the 71-unit complex on Lake Orienta each
face an insurance bill averaging $2,779 -- up from $478 a year ago. That
works out to more than $200 a month per unit -- and doesn't include coverage
for a unit's interior or its contents. The premiums for those inside
policies, similar to renters insurance, are going up, too.

Florida's property-insurance crisis has hit home for the state's 22,000
condominium complexes and its 1.25 million condo owners, even those far from
the coast where hurricanes make landfall. After eight hurricanes in two
seasons, insurers in Florida are dropping coverage, raising premiums or both.

"I feel overwhelmed by this," said Perez, a 54-year-old single mother with a
16-year-old daughter. She has refinanced her mortgage to pay for this year's
higher assessment at Lake Villas, but the hefty insurance premiums are here
to stay, she noted, and that has her wondering just what to do.

"I thought I'd be here forever," she said ."Now I'm going to have to see
[about selling] to get out from under this. Insurance is what's killing me."

Condominiums have always pitched the carefree lifestyle, with swimming pools
and shared amenities, but also the pride -- and equity appreciation -- of
homeownership.

Now condo-association meetings are tense affairs, dominated by talk about
the latest rate increase and how owners might tap equity loans -- not for a
nice ocean cruise or new furniture, but to pay their insurance, said Fred
McKenna, a Lake Villas resident and member of its association's insurance
committee.

Lake Villas and many other condos statewide have been dropped by their
carriers, forcing them to turn to Citizens Property Insurance Corp., the
state-backed insurer of last resort.

Citizens, by law, must charge higher rates to avoid competing with
for-profit companies. And Citizens offers less coverage for the money.

After being "non-renewed" by Nationwide, Lake Villas cobbled together
coverage on the eve of this year's hurricane season from Citizens and three
other companies, including Lloyds of London, the famous high-risk insurer.
But no one, including the association directors who signed off on the
coverage, is happy with the higher costs.

"It's gotten much more complicated -- and expensive," said McKenna, noting
that condo boards are required by law to make sure all jointly owned
property -- the roof and exterior, for example -- is adequately insured.
That leaves the boards little or no negotiating room. Units can't be bought
or sold without the coverage.

Lake Villas' total insurance bill surged from $33,902 last year to $197,276
this year, even though the deductible for wind damage was boosted from $500
per building to an average of $26,000 per building.

That means the 14-building complex could sustain hundreds of thousands of
dollars in damage from a hurricane and still have to pay every penny of
repairs, on top of its higher premiums, said Ray Floyd, a longtime resident.

"We've been hit with this outrageous rate, and for essentially no coverage.
It's catastrophe coverage, is all it is, " said Floyd, a retiree who lives
half the year at Lake Villas and half the year in New Jersey.

"This makes it less desirable to live in Florida," he said. "At least
property taxes are deductible, but insurance is not. I'm going to have to
make a choice," he said, between staying in Florida or selling.

For coastal condos, the horror stories of high insurance bills are even more
commonplace, said Harry Charles, president of the Space Coast Condominiums
Association.

"Everybody is having a problem of one nature or another," said Charles,
whose nonprofit group is an umbrella organization for 262 associations,
mostly condo groups in Brevard County.

One condo association that he heard from, he said, faces an insurance bill
this year of $167,000 -- a more than fivefold increase from $29,000 a year
ago. Other condos are reporting fourfold increases.

The 167-unit Cocoa Beach condo that Charles lives in has been lucky so far,
he said, with a 31 percent increase in its premium this year and no change
in its private carrier.

But the deductible has been raised to about $1 million, or 4 percent of the
$25 million value for three buildings. It's a hefty bill that the condo
owners would have to split if hit by a storm.

"Every year, for years, we've had an insurance crisis, but it has gotten
worse," Charles said. Many condo owners unfairly blame Citizens, he said.

The state-created company "is just trying to do its job," he said, with
limited resources and a growing number of policies. Citizens recently became
the largest insurer in the state, absorbing clients formerly insured by
Tampa-based Poe Group, which went bankrupt, and thousands of other
policyholders who were not renewed by their private carriers.

Citizens spokesman Rocky Scott said the company is helping to keep the condo
market -- and the homeowners' market in general -- alive in Florida by
writing coverage that no one else will offer.

Though more condos are turning to Citizens, he said, the numbers "are not
excessive. We're not seeing a great flood," but a steady, and growing, stream.

"We're the only source [of insurance] along the coast," Scott said, and
increasingly in the interior of the state as well.

Rob Tallent, an agent with Peoples First Insurance, which put together Lake
Villas' new insurance package, said many condo associations throughout
Florida have been "totally shocked" to find they can get little or no
private coverage for wind damage -- even many miles inland.

"That was never a problem before, in the interior of the state," Tallent
said. "Now it is."
 
Joni said:
Can someone tell me what this is all about. Have I missed something that I should have been keeping up on. Could someone explain the change to my contract.
I didn't notice anything new in the paperwork I got when I added points. I don't mean to sound dumb, but, what's it all about???? :confused3
 
/
let me get this straight....disney creates a system that has rules and regulations....people follow those, and the spin now is that there was "loopholes" pardon me while i laugh out loud...I love it how disney reserves the right to make others lives more difficult....I share a contract with my sister after our mom passed away last year...the way it works now she would transfer points from her and my moms contact into my contract each year. I also have a separate add on we purchased....guess i am S.O.L on this one....sorry I decided to rely on the rules they created only to see them change it at their convenience......and no excuses about how this was a rule before and they will now enforce it...if it was not enforced before it was not a rule....after my mom passed MS told me directly I could transger more then once
 
Ms.Mouse said:
I didn't notice anything new in the paperwork I got when I added points. I don't mean to sound dumb, but, what's it all about???? :confused3
Ok, I found the answer to the questions in another Thread I'm reading. Whew!!! nothing I see affecting me at all.... THANKFULLY!!!
 
WebmasterCricket said:
If anythng, I would think it would increase the add-ons for those with small contracts or those wishing to pad previous small add-ons not decrease them.

We'll just have to disagree on this one. I feel it is much easier to stay at a moderate with a code (many already do this on Fri and Sat nites) than it is do pay dues for points which, you fear might be wasted.

:wave:

Beca
 
TammyAlphabet said:
Okay greenban, what is a lemming? :blush:

Hey TA!

Many have already given you the definition of lemming. Here is what I intended it to mean:

Lemming populations go through rapid growths and subsequent crashes that have achieved an almost legendary status, largely because of the Walt Disney Pictures film, White Wilderness, which was produced in 1958 and reappeared on television at regular intervals for many years afterwards. White Wilderness popularized, using staged footage, the myth that during population booms Norway Lemmings become suicidal and leap en masse off cliffs into the sea. For this reason, the term "lemming" is often used in slang to denote those who mindlessly follow the crowd, even if destruction is the result.

Lemming.jpg


For the record, here is a little more info:

Lemmings are small rodents, usually found in or near the Arctic. Together with the voles and muskrats, they make up the subfamily Arvicolinae (also known as Microtinae), which forms part of the largest mammal radiation by far, the superfamily Muroidea, which also includes the rats, mice, hamsters, and gerbils, and Kal-El from Krypton!

Lemmings mostly weigh between 30 g and 112 g (1 to 4 oz) and are about 7 cm — 15 cm (2.75 to 6 in) long. They usually have long, soft fur and very short tails. They are herbivorous, feeding mostly on leaves and shoots, grasses, and sedges in particular, but also roots and bulbs in some cases. Like many rodents, their incisors grow continuously, allowing them to exist on much tougher forage than would otherwise be possible.

Lemmings do not hibernate through the harsh northern winter, but remain active, finding food by burrowing through the snow, and utilising grasses clipped and stored in anticipation. They are solitary animals by nature, meeting only to mate and then going their separate ways, but like all rodents they have a high reproductive rate and can breed rapidly in good seasons.

There is little to distinguish a lemming from a vole. Most lemmings are members of the tribe Lemmini (one of the three tribes that make up the subfamily).


-Tony
 
Even though these points are currently slightly distressed, when has someone recently seen $8.75 points?

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1185037

I bet a lot of people (and frogs) wish they could transfer more than once right now, for bargains, and loopholes.........

I think it is too soon to see, and it takes more than a day for listing to appear at TTS (Tom, you out there? Has there been a mad rush of contract unloading?).

popcorn:: :happytv:

Still, I'm enjoying the show.....

Stay tuned.....

-Tony
 
Beca said:
We'll just have to disagree on this one. I feel it is much easier to stay at a moderate with a code (many already do this on Fri and Sat nites) than it is do pay dues for points which, you fear might be wasted.

Sure, I'll agree that we disagree :)

I also segregate my weekend nights to either a moderate or - gasp - Pop for a 1 night only stay. I have never "wasted" a point and never transferred out even once in 7 years. Remember there are two sides to this, those who need points and those who believe they have too many. I'll never have too many ;)
 
gmboy95 said:
let me get this straight....disney creates a system that has rules and regulations....people follow those, and the spin now is that there was "loopholes" pardon me while i laugh out loud...I love it how disney reserves the right to make others lives more difficult....I share a contract with my sister after our mom passed away last year...the way it works now she would transfer points from her and my moms contact into my contract each year. I also have a separate add on we purchased....guess i am S.O.L on this one....sorry I decided to rely on the rules they created only to see them change it at their convenience......and no excuses about how this was a rule before and they will now enforce it...if it was not enforced before it was not a rule....after my mom passed MS told me directly I could transger more then once
No, the rules didn't change, but when MS was allowing you to do that, they were "bending" the rules that were originally in the POS. Now they have chosen to start following them rather than bending them. No one is really sure why, but it appears it might be to quell a rental loophole.
 
I have been in contact with a broker.... (Not the board sponsor)

They note NO major increase due to DVC changes and did indicate that it was basically impossible to list in 24 hours IF they are a legit broker and verify with DVC. (DVC takes longer then that to verify the owner's statements) (There are a few brokers out there who I don't think verify, I know "she who must not be named" and the board sponsors do verify which is the way to go. There is less risk of that "opps" the seller's really didn't have 100 points to sell, only 90 LOL!)

IMHO, the premise of this thread is "use the facts to justify MY preception of reality"
 
I find it interesting that there are 2 small point contracts listed as for sale on the Timeshare Store's website. Both are $94/pt, but neither is stripped. Even so, usually these contracts seem to get snapped up and are initially posted as "sale pending."

As I understand it, with an add-on to your original contract, you can combine the points from 2 resorts within the 7 month window. With a resale contract that has a different member number, the only way to combine the points is to do a transfer.

With a limit of 1 transfer per year, are add-ons now a better option than a small resale? Or is this new rule also the cure for "add-on-itis"?

We will have to wait and see if small point contracts continue to commande the premium they have appeared to enjoy in the past.

I must admit that I would think twice about buying a 25 point contract (as an add-on or re-sale) because the market for it may be much smaller than existed before this rule change.

Suzanne
 
Chuck S said:
Lemmings are small mouse-like rodents whose populations surge then diminish about every 3 to 4 years. There is a myth that the decline in population is caused by mass suicide (ie a whole "herd" blindly following one another over a cliff. like beaching whales). However, the myth is so strong and persistent that even the classic video game "Lemmings" is based upon this supposed trait.

I am glad someone else corrected that old wife's tale before I got there! Why can't we leave the poor lemmings alone! They need a new PR rep! :rotfl2:
 
SuzanneSLO said:
...With a resale contract that has a different member number, the only way to combine the points is to do a transfer.

I thought if they were the same use year you could still connect them?

SuzanneSLO said:
With a limit of 1 transfer per year, are add-ons now a better option than a small resale? Or is this new rule also the cure for "add-on-itis"?

We will have to wait and see if small point contracts continue to commande the premium they have appeared to enjoy in the past.

I must admit that I would think twice about buying a 25 point contract (as an add-on or re-sale) because the market for it may be much smaller than existed before this rule change.

Small resales are still a cheap way to get your foot in the door and do add-ons at a later date direct from Disney. I always believed the higher price was due to that and not as standard add-on's to larger contracts.
 
SuzanneSLO said:
I find it interesting that there are 2 small point contracts listed as for sale on the Timeshare Store's website. Both are $94/pt, but neither is stripped. Even so, usually these contracts seem to get snapped up and are initially posted as "sale pending."

As I understand it, with an add-on to your original contract, you can combine the points from 2 resorts within the 7 month window. With a resale contract that has a different member number, the only way to combine the points is to do a transfer.

With a limit of 1 transfer per year, are add-ons now a better option than a small resale? Or is this new rule also the cure for "add-on-itis"?

We will have to wait and see if small point contracts continue to commande the premium they have appeared to enjoy in the past.

I must admit that I would think twice about buying a 25 point contract (as an add-on or re-sale) because the market for it may be much smaller than existed before this rule change.

Suzanne

As long as the two smaller contracts are the same use year you can combine the points for a single ressie within 7 months without a transfer. If they are different UY's then you would need to either (1) transfer, (3) bank/borrow from each contract in alternating years or (3) book half of the days on each contract and link the ressies. It's really not that big of a deal. The advantages of small contracts trump this new policy enforcement IMO.
 
We have seen no mad rush to unload points. We have had some calls from some heavy-hitters inquiring about selling but no takers so far. I believe most are going to take the "wait and see" position.

Regards,
Tom :sunny:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.








New Posts





DIS Facebook DIS youtube DIS Instagram DIS Pinterest DIS Tiktok DIS Twitter

Back
Top