The Psychology of the DLR Annual Pass Holder

[TheZue]

If I had a dollar for every time someone posted here about when to go for low crowds, I'd be rich! So yeah it is in Disney's best interest to also look at what their guests want. Not everybody wants to go when the parks are packed solid. For a lot of people that isn't worth the several thousand it costs to go there.

It also doesn't mean AP holders are spending money while there. Would you buy a $50 sweatshirt when you just went last weekend, and will go next week too? Why eat a $100 meal there when you could go back home by dinner time. Or even come after you eat dinner at home.

My point is they seem to have been catering more to the locals over the last few years, and I think they need to pay more attention to the tourists coming in and spending their vacation dollars there.

I agree. And it isn't just an annual pass issue. It's also the way they are doing their prices. There are a TON of us waiting for the October AP rates to come down, or have some sort of deal. We are under three months out and I would bet they'll probably do something, but they are holding out to the last minute. Meanwhile people could easily find more concrete pricing on other vacations. WDW releases deals much earlier and lets people plan ahead so they can get their airfare together. And they advertise it early enough that people are convinced to take a trip.

Basically the way Disneyland is working this it's like waiting for a last minute deal from a travel agent...it's just stupid and doesn't give people enough time to plan. Like I wonder how many people priced out Disneyland months ago but changed their mind after the prices came up? We have one person on this board going to WDW instead, I would bet that there are plenty more. So they are just pushing away people who would love to stay in their hotels...it's not like they are even booked through their current promotion; there is availability at all of their hotels this weekend and there isn't a single day in August that is unavailable between the three hotels....that's with a tower down at DLH, buy three get five nights, and AP8 out. I'm not sure when AP8 was extended, but maybe if people had much more warning those hotels could be filled. Or they could just lower the prices for everyone.

 

[JenDisneylandlver]

Thank you bumbershoot! I know the finger pointing isn't directed at me personally but it's hard not to take it a little personally when people are blaming locals for all the problems at DLR and it was making me sort of sad because usually these boards are so supportive of everyone and now I feel this negative vibe. Maybe I should just read the happier threads.

I'm sorry if your taking this personally, but it really isn't meant to be. I'm sure you can realize that my vacations are personal to me too though, and I'd hope I'd be able to address my concerns here on the board as well.

I don't have anything against the locals there, I've said a few times now that I don't blame them for wanting to go often. But that doesn't mean that it isn't causing crowd issues. The thread that was posted on the other site is quite interesting. Seems others have the same feelings on it, and had some interesting thoughts about it.

I think AP's should be done away with, and let everyone pay to get in at regular price. To me that is only fair, and would make the crowds more managable.

 

[Canyon girl]

I agree. And it isn't just an annual pass issue. It's also the way they are doing their prices. There are a TON of us waiting for the October AP rates to come down, or have some sort of deal. We are under three months out and I would bet they'll probably do something, but they are holding out to the last minute. Meanwhile people could easily find more concrete pricing on other vacations. WDW releases deals much earlier and lets people plan ahead so they can get their airfare together. And they advertise it early enough that people are convinced to take a trip.

Basically the way Disneyland is working this it's like waiting for a last minute deal from a travel agent...it's just stupid and doesn't give people enough time to plan. Like I wonder how many people priced out Disneyland months ago but changed their mind after the prices came up? We have one person on this board going to WDW instead, I would bet that there are plenty more. So they are just pushing away people who would love to stay in their hotels...it's not like they are even booked through their current promotion; there is availability at all of their hotels this weekend and there isn't a single day in August that is unavailable between the three hotels....that's with a tower down at DLH, buy three get five nights, and AP8 out. I'm not sure when AP8 was extended, but maybe if people had much more warning those hotels could be filled. Or they could just lower the prices for everyone.

I don't think that OP had a clue what kind of can of worms and pretty close to territorial war he was going to start with this thread. Them vs. us sounds like gang wars. The Zue, I am going to attempt to respond to your questions from a business stand point; since my kids are Disney stock holders (last thing my father gave them before he died). Disney is a business. While I am chomping at the bit waiting for the schedule during my trip, I am also remembering the terrible mess that Disney created by changing hours many times last year. They are trying to avoid the MESS and havoc that they created last year with MILEY. Disney also remembers the great numbers of people coming out last October for the Halloween decorations (note they are adding SM overlay this year). Why would they release rock bottom prices for Oct. and Nov. now to make you or someone else happy when they could potentially fill that room at near full price. The cheap prices come out usually a couple of months before when they realize that their rooms are not going to be full. I booked my room for Sept. long ago and switched to a cheaper AP rate just a couple of weeks ago. DLR is not the vacation resort that WDW is. It really wasn't intended to be that way. They are now trying to make it that, but remember that it just used to be ONE hotel. The AP8 rate has been going in some form since at least the beginning of the year. I know because I used it in Feb. As far as not knowing far in advance, if you don't like it...go to WDW instead. It really is your decision. Disneyland should not have to change their business practices because you can't wait for a cheaper rate that may or may not come out. BTW, I understand that the DLH isn't going under refurb until the end of Aug...a vertical 1/2 tower at a time. I lived in Orlando for a year with an AP to WDW. They two can't compare as far as being a "vacation" destination.

 

[nunzia]

So Cal passes are available to anyone in the US who lives in Zip Codes 90001-93599. While 90001 and 93599 are both located in LA County, there are a lot of areas in those Zip Codes the residents of which barely consider themselves So Cal residents. For example, I am up here in San Luis Obispo, a 216 mile drive to DL, which takes about 3.5 hours on a good day. So I blessed with the ability to purchase a So Cal AP or other ticket and no traffic.

One thought I had is that if DL really wants to encourage "tourist" AP holders rather than local AP holders, they could unbundle the parking from the PAP. This might also help with the parking issues caused by reports of 1 car per person parties.

We usually have a Deluxe AP (sometimes upgraded from a So Cal AP) but have never purchased a PAP. One of the reasons is that we have only parked one time in the M&F structure; we use our hotel's transportation or walk. As a result, our breakeven for an upgrade to PAP ends up being if we plan to attend more than 2 blackout days.

-- Suzanne

I know..I was just being sarcastic, really...The point is..we would all like the deal So Ca people have, but we can't all live there...although sometimes it seems like the whole country does. I'm from San Jose and that town is not recognizable any longer to what I knew. There are many parts of California I'd still love to live in, including San Luis Obispo which I find gorgeous, or Goleta, but the cost of living is outrageous, and our families and jobs are here. It just seems like this thread has drifted from the 'do AP guests make a difference in crowd patterns' to people thinking AP holders are getting bashed, which I don't think is the point at all.

 

[blackjackdelta]

Just finished reading Disneys quarterly report and as a shareholder, I did not like the amount of money I made, but I still made money. Here is a quote from the report:

Parks and Resorts​

Parks and Resorts revenues for the quarter decreased 9% to $2.8 billion and
segment operating income decreased 19% to $521 million. Lower operating income
was due to decreases at the Walt Disney World Resort, Disney Vacation Club, and
Disneyland Paris. Operating income comparisons reflected the shift of the Easter
holiday from the second quarter in fiscal 2008 to the third quarter in fiscal 2009.​

Domestic Operations​

Lower operating income at the Walt Disney World Resort was primarily due
to decreased guest spending and lower corporate alliance income recognition,
partially offset by lower costs. Decreased guest spending was driven by lower
average daily hotel room rates and lower average ticket prices, which included the
impact of promotional programs such as our​

Buy 4, Get 3 Free program. Lower costs
reflected savings from cost mitigation activities and lower volume, partially offset
by labor and other cost inflation. Lower operating income at Disney Vacation Club​

was primarily due to higher per unit cost of sales.

It does mean they did not make AS MUCH money as they wanted to. So why would Disney want to limit the number of visitors to the parks as long as it does not increase their labor and benefit expenses.

We all have our personal feelings about what they should do so our own experiences are more pleasurable. Maybe by investing in CA and the surrounding neighborhood(new hotels) they can spread the impact more evenly and by adjusting the prices revenue increases to at least offset some of the expenses.

Some people will not buy at the increased price but others will and at least by a factor of 1, soooooooooooooooo

Jack

 

[nunzia]

<<<DL was always designed as a day trip. The idea was to have a place for a family to get away and have a fun day in a magical place, Walt says it many times. WDW changed the idea of the Disney parks and instead of saying spend a magical day with us, it became spend a magical week with us and please empty your wallet into the bins as you come in. The addition of DCA is DLR trying to create a resort instead of the past version of a day trip park.>>>
I see the point, but when we first starting going to Disneyland it was 1963 and we always stayed several days. It was a long drive down from Reno (we'd moved from San Jose by then) and it was a very big deal to us. We never even thought of going anywhere else. Beach vacations were at Santa Cruz..we never did Knotts. So, to our family it's always been a destination vacation.

 

[JenDisneylandlver]

It does mean they did not make AS MUCH money as they wanted to. So why would Disney want to limit the number of visitors to the parks as long as it does not increase their labor and benefit expenses.

We all have our personal feelings about what they should do so our own experiences are more pleasurable. Maybe by investing in CA and the surrounding neighborhood(new hotels) they can spread the impact more evenly and by adjusting the prices revenue increases to at least offset some of the expenses.

Some people will not buy at the increased price but others will and at least by a factor of 1, soooooooooooooooo

Jack


[/FONT]

They should focus more on paying customers, not a family with AP's who only comes for the evening and buys a churro. Revenues aren't going to soar with that.

Take away the Ap's and locals will have to pay to get in each time. More revenue, and they may stay longer and eat there. More revenue! Sure maybe less locals will be in the parks at one time, but they'll actually be making money off of them.

 

[TheZue]

I don't think that OP had a clue what kind of can of worms and pretty close to territorial war he was going to start with this thread. Them vs. us sounds like gang wars. The Zue, I am going to attempt to respond to your questions from a business stand point; since my kids are Disney stock holders (last thing my father gave them before he died). Disney is a business. While I am chomping at the bit waiting for the schedule during my trip, I am also remembering the terrible mess that Disney created by changing hours many times last year. They are trying to avoid the MESS and havoc that they created last year with MILEY. Disney also remembers the great numbers of people coming out last October for the Halloween decorations (note they are adding SM overlay this year). Why would they release rock bottom prices for Oct. and Nov. now to make you or someone else happy when they could potentially fill that room at near full price. The cheap prices come out usually a couple of months before when they realize that their rooms are not going to be full. I booked my room for Sept. long ago and switched to a cheaper AP rate just a couple of weeks ago. DLR is not the vacation resort that WDW is. It really wasn't intended to be that way. They are now trying to make it that, but remember that it just used to be ONE hotel. The AP8 rate has been going in some form since at least the beginning of the year. I know because I used it in Feb. As far as not knowing far in advance, if you don't like it...go to WDW instead. It really is your decision. Disneyland should not have to change their business practices because you can't wait for a cheaper rate that may or may not come out. BTW, I understand that the DLH isn't going under refurb until the end of Aug...a vertical 1/2 tower at a time. I lived in Orlando for a year with an AP to WDW. They two can't compare as far as being a "vacation" destination.

I get that they want to fill their hotels for full price, and honestly I would have paid the regular AP price anyways but many others just wouldn't bother. If it doesn't come down I may not come back as quickly or stay off site next time...if I wasn't on this board and didn't think there was a reasonable chance of getting it below full rack rate I wouldn't have booked at the original $370/night which I suspect turns a lot of people running to the harbor motels. I get that prices come down over time at other hotels, and we've been other places this year and I found the lowest price for our stay in NY at the Marriott Marquis six months out and that was half off rack rate. I'm just pointing out that their current strategy is not filling those hotels, and there have been very few days since I got access to the site a month ago when the current night was not still available at one of the resort hotels. I'm not saying they should change their business practices for ME, I'm saying they should to actually fill their hotel and make more money. Empty rooms bring in $0. The comparison to WDW is more to point out that they are working to fill those hotels a little further out in other sectors of the company, I have zero desire to go there.

 

[blackjackdelta]

Looks like Disney has answered some of everyones expectations.

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2245197

Jack

 

[blackjackdelta]

I get that they want to fill their hotels for full price, and honestly I would have paid the regular AP price anyways but many others just wouldn't bother. If it doesn't come down I may not come back as quickly or stay off site next time...if I wasn't on this board and didn't think there was a reasonable chance of getting it below full rack rate I wouldn't have booked at the original $370/night which I suspect turns a lot of people running to the harbor motels. I get that prices come down over time at other hotels, and we've been other places this year and I found the lowest price for our stay in NY at the Marriott Marquis six months out and that was half off rack rate. I'm just pointing out that their current strategy is not filling those hotels, and there have been very few days since I got access to the site a month ago when the current night was not still available at one of the resort hotels. I'm not saying they should change their business practices for ME, I'm saying they should to actually fill their hotel and make more money. Empty rooms bring in $0. The comparison to WDW is more to point out that they are working to fill those hotels a little further out in other sectors of the company, I have zero desire to go there.

If 80% occupancy is considered excellent in the hotel business with 20% still available they can short sell those rooms for anything they wish. Believe it or not may people still do not research anything that have to do with travel. Look at the regular lines at the parks vs the FP lines.

Jack

 

[Krissy Marissy]

Hmmm. Who cares if locals go to the park. If you don't want to be around crowds I'm thinking any kind of amusement park isn't the place to take a vacation. I prefer the locals or people who know what's up at dl.

I agree with canyongirl. It is a company. If you don't like their product, you don't buy it. Doesn't get much more simple than that.

You get out of your vacation what you put into it. I can have a GREAT day at dl even if I get on five rides and it was crowded because I just feel so happy and lucky to be there.if I want to stop in for a few hours on sunday I sure will. I have that right just as you have the right to stay for five days if you please!


As for the comments on making locals pay the same price, perhaps there should be flat pricing from ny too? Or wa. Everyone pays the same for their disney vacation? Life just doesn't work that way.

 

[HydroGuy]

But there is some factor out there that makes the TSM at DHS max out at 80 minutes on opening day while the TSM at DCA maxed out at 4+ hours.

to what I bolded.....FAST PASS.

You think FASTPASS is the reason that DHS lines were shorter? I have to confess after all the things I have read about FP I have yet to see one that claims it makes lines shorter.

And so you really think that the 4+ hour lines for TSM at DCA were not caused by AP holders?

If so, I would be curious to what happened to the lines after the AP blockout in June 2008. Was anyone on this forum there? We can go dig up old threads. I would bet you a dole whip and be quite confident of winning that the lines for TSM went way, way down on the same day as the AP blockouts went into effect.

As for WDW people vs DLRs....my cousin is relatively local to Orlando. And in her teens she was a CM at a Disney Store, so got admission to WDW. She and her now husband courted at WDW. They, along with their friends (group dates), would go to WDW for a copule hours, hang out at resorts, etc. They behaved just like So Cal AP buyers are described to behave.

This does not surprise me in the least. How many Orlando local AP holders are there do you think? Anywhere near the many hundreds of thousands of SoCal AP holders? I think we both know there are a lot less in Orlando. If there were similar numbers I have no doubt that WDW would have similar issues to DLR.

Perhaps you could come to a middle ground with this. If it's necessary for some to do an us/them with AP buyers, and if it's based on behaviour surrounding relatively last minute things that Disneyland tells us about, then the people crowding fantabulous new rides or waiting for dragons are people living in so cal. We have APs but can't drop everything...sure, DS and I went to the parks 3 days recently, but we were already in so cal. We can't do things that fast if we're not already down there...70 bucks is a great rate for a flight, but multiplied by 6, adding in airport parking, transportation, hotel, and food costs gets high

I started this thread standing in the middle ground you mention.

From the OP...

Hence many of the AP holders at DLR are from Southern California. With a population of 20 million, DLR has lots to work with. Most living in SoCal are within distance of a day trip to DLR and that is a key difference from WDW.

As many DLR AP holders are within driving distance, they tend to take more day trips. And further, since they can get to DLR easily it is much easier for them to invest disproportionate amounts of time for anything new. They can and do "pop in" for a short visit in the evening after work, for example. They may ride a couple rides and then just leave. Some go to DLR every single weekend to hang with friends.

For example, when the Finding Nemo Sub ride opened in June 2007 and the POTC ride refurb with Jack Sparrow opened in June 2006, one could find four hour lines for these rides at first. Why? Because AP holders who live close by can stop in to ride only that ride. They can just bring a book and wait it out. They are not spending thousands of dollars on a long vacation where waiting for four hours is a waste of time. They can and do just stop in after work at 7PM and wait.

I am genuinely confused. You think I am doing an us vs. them? I asked this before and I will ask again. If AP holders/SoCal locals are the cause of lumpy attendance (which lots of people seem to believe including Disney), and someone from Kenosha asks on this forum about whether they should go to DLR in August the week the blackout lifts, and we know what happened in June this year before the blackout started, should we all not answer their question because it might appear as "us vs. them"?

I guess it's sort of like the resentment I see from fellow DVC owners (though officially I'm merely an associate, hubby's the owner) towards the deals cash-paying people are getting at WDW. Free Dining Value package people are getting upgraded to 1 bedrooms at 2 DVC resorts, and people are REALLY resenting it. I'm just happy for them.

And I'm happy for those who have the means and opportunity to go to a place that makes them happy, even if it means they are in front of me in a line, slowing down my time.

Well, I personally have no resentment at all towards AP holders. Since you addressed this comment to me I assume you think I do. Oh well. I have chosen my words carefully in this thread to not create that impression. As far as I am concerned I do not care that AP holders do what they do as far as crowds. I did not start this thread to complain as I have no complaint.

My intent from the beginning was to describe how many SoCal AP holders think and how their priorities differ from a "once-a-year" visitor and how that can affect lines.

 

[HydroGuy]

Hmmm. Who cares if locals go to the park. If you don't want to be around crowds I'm thinking any kind of amusement park isn't the place to take a vacation. I prefer the locals or people who know what's up at dl.

Well I care. Insofar as knowing that it may mean a massive crowd at a certain time that I can avoid if I go at a different time. I know there will be crowds at DLR. That is not the point. The point is that it is hard to compete for a spot in lines with people who can and do dedicate 4 hours to a certain ride or show.

You will not find me anywhere near the World of Color show after it opens while it is running during a non-blackout. The SoCal holders are going to descend on that show in droves. Do I blame them? No way. They have paid to be there and should go if they want. But that could make it hard for me to see it personally because I cannot spend 4 hours waiting for a ride or show. So I would choose to go during a blackout period or wait until the interest dies down.

 

[HydroGuy]

FWIW here is another current thread asking a presumably innocent question about AP blackouts. How should we answer?

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2245389

Promised my 10 year old nephew to take him on a "SoCal Tour" this summer. Booked a week at DLR last week for Aug 16-22 and then saw that the AP blackout dates drop off on the 16th. How do you think the crowds will be that week? We're planning to spend 3 1/2 -4 days in the park; should we go at the first of the week or in the middle? Have to be in LA on friday night 8/21 so we're going to USH that day. We'll have fun no matter what; just wondering....

 

[Eeee-va]

FWIW here is another current thread asking a presumably innocent question about AP blackouts. How should we answer?

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2245389

Pray for the dragon not to be working? If there's nothing new to see, the crowds might not be QUITE as bad. Well, hopefully they won't be bad at all, but I'm worried for them.

 

[Disney Dreams]

To be honest, yes, this is what upsets me about AP holders. Which we once were ourselves, only we got 3 uses out of them that year. We are not locals.

But you didn't get 3 uses out of them. How many days was each of those trips? THAT'S how many uses you got. If you take 3 trips for 7 days each in one year, you have had 21 visits to DL. If a local AP holder goes once a week, it will take them almost 6 months to match you in terms of visits.

...because the Ap population is so many that its hard for those out of towners to get thru the park...

How do you know they are AP holders?

Exactly! Many PAP holders may just start rethinking exactly how important having the PAP is, and they may buy the lower level APs just to have something, with the intention of possibly upgrading later on if they need to.

Not aimed directly at you SherryE, but I think the biggest forgotten element in this is what else a PAP gets in addition to admission. The discounts add up.

...buying up all the merchandise ect... Locals typically don't do that.

Ummm.... local AP holders will go to the park specifically to buy birthday gifts or do holiday shopping or buy special gifts for friends and family that can't get to DL. Local APs buy merchandise. No question about it. How can we know this? Look at the special items that are created only for AP holders. If they didn't buy merchandise, Disney would not make exclusive items for them (which typically sell out VERY fast).

Take away the Ap's and locals will have to pay to get in each time. More revenue, and they may stay longer and eat there. More revenue! Sure maybe less locals will be in the parks at one time, but they'll actually be making money off of them.

I have to disagree with this logic. If I had to pay $69 to go to Disneyland every time, I would not go unless it was a very special occasion. Why? I grew up in So. Cal. I have been to Disneyland. I have seen it. I can't afford to pay $69 for a one day / one park visit (which btw, is NOT what people on trips pay as multi-day passes are cheaper when looked at per day). However, I will pay $400 for a pass that allows me to come anytime I want, turning DL into an entertainment option for me on any given day. If DL did away with the AP, they would lose sooooo much money. It makes them a profit, which is why the offer it.

I honestly had no clue that people had such animosity towards AP holders. This is a very eye-opening thread for me.

- Dreams

 

[HydroGuy]

I have to disagree with this logic. If I had to pay $69 to go to Disneyland every time, I would not go unless it was a very special occasion. Why? I grew up in So. Cal. I have been to Disneyland. I have seen it. I can't afford to pay $69 for a one day / one park visit (which btw, is NOT what people on trips pay as multi-day passes are cheaper when looked at per day). However, I will pay $400 for a pass that allows me to come anytime I want, turning DL into an entertainment option for me on any given day. If DL did away with the AP, they would lose sooooo much money. It makes them a profit, which is why the offer it.

I honestly had no clue that people had such animosity towards AP holders. This is a very eye-opening thread for me.

- Dreams

I disagree with the logic too. And I too did not know that people had this kind of animosity. I do think it is a small minority. Jen has a right to express her opinions and she has.

AP holders are doing nothing wrong by: going to the park frequently (if they do), buying merchandise (if they do) or getting discounts at stores and for food. Why? Because Disney offers these opportunities as part of the AP program. How could one blame an AP holder for doing what Disney permits and for which they have legally paid for the privilige?

If SoCal local AP holders cause crowd surges they are doing nothing wrong. But IMO they are causing crowd surges and as far as I am concerned it is worth knowing and understanding what they are doing and why they are doing it so I can work around it if necessary. That is why I started this thread which has gone far afield from what I expected.

 

[PinkBudgie]

I disagree with the logic too. And I too did not know that people had this kind of animosity. I do think it is a small minority. Jen has a right to express her opinions and she has.

AP holders are doing nothing wrong by: going to the park frequently (if they do), buying merchandise (if they do) or getting discounts at stores and for food. Why? Because Disney offers these opportunities as part of the AP program. How could one blame an AP holder for doing what Disney permits and for which they have legally paid for the privilige?

If SoCal local AP holders cause crowd surges they are doing nothing wrong. But IMO they are causing crowd surges and as far as I am concerned it is worth knowing and understanding what they are doing and why they are doing it so I can work around it if necessary. That is why I started this thread which has gone far afield from what I expected.

I agree. I think people are confusing pinpointing the cause of the large crowd swings with animosity. How could anyone blame them for going for an afternoon? I know I would if I was closer! My ideas, like trying to stagger the blockout days more among the Socal APs, were just trying to think out how to smooth them out. As for me, I have no animostiy.

And one final thing to note: even with these very large crowds, you can still get a lot done. Getting there early is key. As people have said, many locals come later in the day. By getting there early you can get on a lot of rides and pick up FPs. When we were there for the last day for Socal APs it was crowded but we never waited more than 15-20 min for ride. Someone mentioned the 80's. Back then you just resigned yourself to waiting an hour or more. If you read this board you will learn all the tips to go when it is crowded and still not wait long.

 

[blackjackdelta]

I agree. I think people are confusing pinpointing the cause of the large crowd swings with animosity. How could anyone blame them for going for an afternoon? I know I would if I was closer! My ideas, like trying to stagger the blockout days more among the Socal APs, were just trying to think out how to smooth them out. As for me, I have no animostiy.

And one final thing to note: even with these very large crowds, you can still get a lot done. Getting there early is key. As people have said, many locals come later in the day. By getting there early you can get on a lot of rides and pick up FPs. When we were there for the last day for Socal APs it was crowded but we never waited more than 15-20 min for ride. Someone mentioned the 80's. Back then you just resigned yourself to waiting an hour or more. If you read this board you will learn all the tips to go when it is crowded and still not wait long.

I total agree with Trey and PinkBudgie. I think the understanding is very important but to place "blame" for the crowds is not . Think about the fact that when we the "tourist" can not be in the park, who is there supporting the park and keeping those Disney workers employed, I bet it is the local AP holders.

Jack

 

[merrrydeath]

If SoCal local AP holders cause crowd surges they are doing nothing wrong. But IMO they are causing crowd surges and as far as I am concerned it is worth knowing and understanding what they are doing and why they are doing it so I can work around it if necessary. That is why I started this thread which has gone far afield from what I expected.

I'm glad you said this, because I was getting very frustrated with the direction the thread was going. It bothers me that people are saying AP-holders are "ruining" their vacations. One of the most helpful things about these boards are that they help you plan! There are so many posts about crowd trends at any certain time, how to get on all the rides you want during a busy season, what days of the week are best to go, what time of day you should get there, etc. etc. We're helping eachother have an amazing Disney experience by sharing first hand experiences. There have been many cases where new DISfans come back from trips raving about how all the tips and suggestions worked for them and they had a great time. I think it's important to know(or guess at) what blackout days mean for crowds. It's just another tool for DISmembers to have under their trip planning belts.

If crowds "ruin" vacations for people, they probably need to find a better time or place to vacation. I am truly happy just being at Disneyland. I may plan on riding as many rides as possible, but when I get there it doesn't matter as much anymore. DIS provides many resources for people wishing to get the most out of their vacations. If people aren't taking advantage of these tools and letting their trip be ruined by lines, I don't see how that is the fault of the AP-holders.