The perfect custody agreement

[Bunnyfeather]

The thing about the sleepover clause is that it does not address ANY of the concerns people say they want to address.

My ex cheated on me and left me for a much younger woman. He married her a week after the divorce was final, in Vegas. The "morality" clause would not have addressed any part of that situation.

What DOES the morality clause do?

It doesn't prevent "immoral" behavior or protect the children.

If a parent has a revolving door of romantic interests, he or she can have those people around the kids all weekend long without sleepovers, like 6am to 10pm. They can have sex without sleepovers. They can say and do all sorts of things that will emotionally damage the children and teach them questionable values without sleepovers. Molestation and physical and emotional abuse are not confined to the hours between bedtime and breakfast, either.

And sleepovers are not immoral behavior, either. No matter how you define moral behavior. I could be in a committed relationship, refuse to introduce my children until we were certain of a future together, and even refuse to participate in premarital sex...and still choose to have that person sleep over sometimes before the wedding. For that matter, because of his wonky work hours, my bf could move into my home and rarely break the sleepover clause . Does that mean that third shift workers are more moral than 9-5 people?

 

[bethy]

As for the having another male in the house with my kids, if I even thought that the person I was bringing home could be dangerous then they wouldn't be staying over night. But I don't just generally assume a male in my house is dangerous.

Thank you for answering the question.

Daisy

Oh I know most people wouldn't willingly allow someone they thought might be dangerous near their kids. There are a few negligent and selfish parents who are exceptions. But in general most cases of sexual abuse and assualt are perpetrated by people whom the family trusts. That's what the statistics overwhelmingly show. Because if the parents didn't trust the abuser then they wouldn't have allowed them near their children in teh first place, etc.

There are approximately 4 men - DH, DH's brother, my dad and my FIL whom I would feel comfortable leaving my kids with overnight. Basically I have to have known and trusted the male for at least 20 years. There are a couple of family friends with kids whom my kids have sleepovers with. But I've even known those dads for 20 years, too AND their wives need to be present in the home at the same time as the sleepover for me to feel comfortable.

I also worry about emotional abuse.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

Oh I know most people wouldn't willingly allow someone they thought might be dangerous near their kids. There are a few negligent and selfish parents who are exceptions. But in general most cases of sexual abuse and assualt are perpetrated by people whom the family trusts. That's what the statistics overwhelmingly show. Because if the parents didn't trust the abuser then they wouldn't have allowed them near their children in teh first place, etc.

There are approximately 4 men - DH, DH's brother, my dad and my FIL whom I would feel comfortable leaving my kids with overnight. Basically I have to have known and trusted the male for at least 20 years. There are a couple of family friends with kids whom my kids have sleepovers with. But I've even known those dads for 20 years, too AND their wives need to be present in the home at the same time as the sleepover for me to feel comfortable.

I also worry about emotional abuse.

What about women?

 

[Daisy&Max]

Oh I know most people wouldn't willingly allow someone they thought might be dangerous near their kids. There are a few negligent and selfish parents who are exceptions. But in general most cases of sexual abuse and assualt are perpetrated by people whom the family trusts. That's what the statistics overwhelmingly show. Because if the parents didn't trust the abuser then they wouldn't have allowed them near their children in teh first place, etc.

There are approximately 4 men - DH, DH's brother, my dad and my FIL whom I would feel comfortable leaving my kids with overnight. Basically I have to have known and trusted the male for at least 20 years. There are a couple of family friends with kids whom my kids have sleepovers with. But I've even known those dads for 20 years, too AND their wives need to be present in the home at the same time as the sleepover for me to feel comfortable.

I also worry about emotional abuse.

In my personal case, it wasn't my mom's boyfriend but a blood related family member, who my mom trusted with her life, who abused me. So I guess I'm more trusting of other people than I am of my own family! LOL

Daisy

 

[Daisy&Max]

The thing about the sleepover clause is that it does not address ANY of the concerns people say they want to address.

My ex cheated on me and left me for a much younger woman. He married her a week after the divorce was final, in Vegas. The "morality" clause would not have addressed any part of that situation.

What DOES the morality clause do?

It doesn't prevent "immoral" behavior or protect the children.

If a parent has a revolving door of romantic interests, he or she can have those people around the kids all weekend long without sleepovers, like 6am to 10pm. They can have sex without sleepovers. They can say and do all sorts of things that will emotionally damage the children and teach them questionable values without sleepovers. Molestation and physical and emotional abuse are not confined to the hours between bedtime and breakfast, either.

And sleepovers are not immoral behavior, either. No matter how you define moral behavior. I could be in a committed relationship, refuse to introduce my children until we were certain of a future together, and even refuse to participate in premarital sex...and still choose to have that person sleep over sometimes before the wedding. For that matter, because of his wonky work hours, my bf could move into my home and rarely break the sleepover clause . Does that mean that third shift workers are more moral than 9-5 people?

I totally agree about the bolded.

Daisy

 

[bethy]

In my personal case, it wasn't my mom's boyfriend but a blood related family member, who my mom trusted with her life, who abused me. So I guess I'm more trusting of other people than I am of my own family! LOL

Daisy

Oh, I am so, so sorry that happened to you.

 

[Bunnyfeather]

This is the reason I think clauses and stuff that attempt to nail down all the details are a bad idea.

Basically, you had a kid with a person, you NEED to continue to work with that person to raise the child together. Attacking each other and distrusting and acting hostile doesn't help with that.

I wish that it could be the default position to work amicably with the ex, work together on the parenting plan in the decree, trust that person to be the best parent they can and keep dialog open so that both parents can help each other to parent the children well. My ex is a horrible husband, an immature and selfish person, but he loves his kids dearly and he does his best to parent them. I am sure he could say something similar about me. If we can work together, I believe most parents COULD, though it is admittedly quite challenging. I just don't think a morality clause ever helps with that goal.

 

[Spoodleink]

Oh I know most people wouldn't willingly allow someone they thought might be dangerous near their kids. There are a few negligent and selfish parents who are exceptions. But in general most cases of sexual abuse and assualt are perpetrated by people whom the family trusts. That's what the statistics overwhelmingly show. Because if the parents didn't trust the abuser then they wouldn't have allowed them near their children in teh first place, etc.

There are approximately 4 men - DH, DH's brother, my dad and my FIL whom I would feel comfortable leaving my kids with overnight. Basically I have to have known and trusted the male for at least 20 years. There are a couple of family friends with kids whom my kids have sleepovers with. But I've even known those dads for 20 years, too AND their wives need to be present in the home at the same time as the sleepover for me to feel comfortable.

I also worry about emotional abuse.

Women are just as capable of abuse as men, it is just under reported to a larger extent then abuse by men. Hiding kids from all men is not going to help them at all.

 

[tOSU]

The perfect custody agreement is a death certificate listing the other parent...

 

[kim929]

Ours was sweet and simple, split everything 50/50. We live in the same school district, and actually live right next door to each other right now so our girls can go back and forth between our houses freely. We never fought over who paid for what, etc. Always 50/50.

Reba, is that you?

 

[crashbb]

The perfect custody agreement is a death certificate listing the other parent...

My dad got one of those "custody agreements", I don't think that he (or my brother and I) would consider it perfect though.

 

[Bunnyfeather]

The perfect custody agreement is a death certificate listing the other parent...

My ex, for all his many faults and for all that he drives me crazy, is the father of my small children. While his death would simplify day-to-day custody logistics, at what cost to my kids? Every hassle, every difficult conversation, every uncomfortable moment, every missed holiday because Daddy has them, is totally worth it so that my children can grow up secure in their father's and mother's love, actively raised by both of their parents.

I know that was meant as a joke, but that kind of joke perpetuates the default adversarial relationship between divorced parents that I think is quite harmful and therefore not funny at all.

 

[golfgal]

While I personally do have moral concerns regarding sex outside of marriage and also practical concerns about folks living together, my main objections to an ex having girlfriends or boyfriends sleep over are these:

1. Instability. I believe it's very hard on children to have adults come in and out of their lives. I hate the thought of my children forming a bond with someone and then having that person leave them. That's a big reason IMO why marriage is and should be meant to be a lifelong commitment.

2. Safety. Especially if the overnight guests were males. There are very few males whom I would feel comfortable having overnight access to my children. 'Nuff said.

I have always felt very strongly that if heaven forbid something were to happen to my DH that I would not seriously date or remarry until my children were out of the house or nearly out of the house. But I'm super independent that way.

Adults come in and out of your life all the time. You have new teachers at school each year whom you form a bond, you have family friends that may move away or fade out of your life for one reason or another, you have sports coaches for a year or two and move on, etc., etc. etc. By saying this you are just making an excuse that you don't want your ex to have another relationship or your kids to have a relationship with another "mother figure".

 

[bethy]

Well, I can only speak for myself and I certainly know what my own intent is inside my head better than anyone else does.

Actually, if I were ever to get divorced (which is HIGHY unlikely but that's neither here nor there - it wouldn't be by my choice unless abuse were involved) and my Ex remarried and/or entered a long term committed relationship then I would hope and pray and be very happy if she were a wonderful person and formed a great bond with my kids. Why wouldn't I want that? I have no trouble swallowing my pride and wanting what's truly best for my kids which would be a good relationship with any adult who has a significant impact on their lives.

What would make me absolutely sick to my stomach is if my ex had different women sleeping over every night - or even if he had a few different lovers in a year and my kids watched them come and go. Ugh. And then on top of that if they were mean or even just indifferent to the kids then it would just break my heart. Sorry but the revolving door thing is repulsive in and of itself to me.

 

[luvmy3]

The perfect custody agreement is a death certificate listing the other parent...

I would think that only in cases of abuse, othertwise I think its a horrible thing to think.