The Official 2013 Wine and Dine Half Marathon Thread

[peachygreen]

So I have a 10 miler scheduled for next Sunday. I'm planning to turn that time in at the expo for coral placement.

For a 10 miler should I plan on running my half marathon pace? I guess the better way to put that is that should I anticpate that what pace I run for a 10 mile race should be pretty simliar to a half marathon race pace?

I did 12-1/2 miles yesterday. I have the 10-mile race this coming Sunday and the weekend after that I have a 16 mile training run. That would be on 10/5 so basicalliy 1 month out from the race. I'm trying to figure out what I should do from there. I've been running with a full marathon training group for the WDW full in January. I'm not planning to run the full in January however so after the half marathon I will drop back to the half marathon group as I plan to do a half about the same time as the Disney Half.

So this is the upcoming training schedule for each (all are Galloway programs).

Full Marathon Group
10/5 - 16 miles
10/12 - 5 MM
10/19 - 4 miles
10/26 - 6 MM
11/2 - 20 miles

Half Marathon Group
10/5 - 6.5 miles
10/12 - 3 miles
10/19 - 8 miles
10/26 - 3 MM
11/2 - 9.5 miles

WnD Half Marathon Schedule
10/5 - 4 miles
10/12 - 12.5 miles
10/19 - 4 miles
10/16 - 14 miles
11/2 - 4 miles

So where would you go from here to the finish? Obviously I can't continue the full schedule up to the race because I am not running 20 miles the week before the race. I'm afraid I am peeking too soon. I was thinking I might try something like this.
10/21 - 12.5 miles (yesterday)
10/29 - 10 mile race
10/5 - 16 miles
10/12 - 5 MM
10/19 - 8 miles
10/26 - 6 MM
11/2 - 4 miles

Should I add 6 miles on my own to the 10/26 run and get 12 miles in, or maybe I should add 4-5 miles on the 19th instead and then taper down to 6 and then 4.

I finished the 12.5 miles yesterday strong. I was tired after but I didn't slow down, actually our last 2-3 miles were faster than the first 9. I feel like I could go run the half marathon now if I needed to, but I want to finish the next 6 weeks training strong.

 

[cewait]

So I have a 10 miler scheduled for next Sunday. I'm planning to turn that time in at the expo for coral placement.

For a 10 miler should I plan on running my half marathon pace? I guess the better way to put that is that should I anticpate that what pace I run for a 10 mile race should be pretty simliar to a half marathon race pace?

I did 12-1/2 miles yesterday. I have the 10-mile race this coming Sunday and the weekend after that I have a 16 mile training run. That would be on 10/5 so basicalliy 1 month out from the race. I'm trying to figure out what I should do from there. I've been running with a full marathon training group for the WDW full in January. I'm not planning to run the full in January however so after the half marathon I will drop back to the half marathon group as I plan to do a half about the same time as the Disney Half.

So this is the upcoming training schedule for each (all are Galloway programs).

*****.

1- They are similar paces. If you have (know) a half marathon pace, I would run that pace for the first 6-7 miles then start to push through to a pace a couple percentage points faster. This all depends on the course terrain, weather and the gas you have in the tank.

For the remaining schedule coming into the WnD I would try something like,


9/21 - 12.5 miles (yesterday)
9/29 - 10 mile race
10/5 6-8 miles
10/12 - 5 MM
10/19 - 8 miles
10/26 10-14
11/2 - 4 miles
11/9 - WnD Half

It may mean running past the group's stop or even running alone. Give yourself a slower week post race to recover. It's OK to run just not so far or hard. Your body and legs will thank you long term

 

[PlutoBaby]

Thanks! I did it! It actually went ok. A couple minor issues here and there (hamstring pain at about the 8.25 mile mark- figures- but it went away) and my knees are holding up at least for now. The best part is I feel a LOT better this year after a 9 mile run than I did last year at this point in my training. I think most of it is having a better handle on hydration and nutrition and some luck (fewer injuries/illnesses at this point this year). I'm hoping things stay this way!

Yay!!!! I hate to jinx myself, but my elephant knees are holding up pretty well so far. Did 6 this weekend and felt pretty good. I'll be maxing out at 10 before the race but not worried about the last 3 at all. I know I can go the distance and definitely don't want to give the IT's any reason to complain too soon. What new tunes?? I watched a PitBull concert while I was on the elliptical yesterday and found a few more upbeat tunes to add to the official "Half Marathon" playlist!

Doesn't someone else on this board run with a metronome? I definitely liked it and it gave me a pace I was super happy with. I think I just have to work up the endurance to keep that pace for longer. The sad thing is is that it means no music, just the soft beep in my ear.

Just keep running.....just keep running......just keep running......

Yup, that's me! I started using it a few weeks and love it. It keeps me running a bit slower but I have alot more energy left later in the run. I still use my iPod though, I just turn the volume all the way up on the metronome, clip it to the shirt strap so it's near my ear, and I can still hear it fine, even with the tunes.

Ordered the last part of my outfit this weekend. Couldn't find exactly what I was looking for but I think I'll be able to make do. Not going the traditional running skirt route this year, but there will be no doubt I'm all about the wining and dining! What's everyone planning on this year?

Kimberley

 

[Figment1990]

I know it's barely 24 hours post-run and I know better than to start worrying until at least a couple of days have passed, but my knees are definitely protesting yesterday's run! Mostly my left (GOOD!) knee hurts. Grrrr.... I am trying to distract myself from rearranging my planned runs for this week until at least another 24 hours. I was planning to take it "easy" this week anyhow because of my 10k on sunday, but the question on the table is just how easy.... and whether to push it on Sunday or not. The 10k on sunday is a lot of downhills, so I was hoping for a big PR, but I also don't want to lose my knees this close to W&D.... I'm torn because I'd really like to have a good starting corral for the princess half in February, and that's the whole purpose of my 10k on sunday. However, I could still push myself at the wine & dine and submit that time instead.

anyhow, Coach, standby.... might be looking for input once I see how the legs are feeling tomorrow afternoon....

 

[Figment1990]

Yay!!!! I hate to jinx myself, but my elephant knees are holding up pretty well so far. Did 6 this weekend and felt pretty good. I'll be maxing out at 10 before the race but not worried about the last 3 at all. I know I can go the distance and definitely don't want to give the IT's any reason to complain too soon. What new tunes?? I watched a PitBull concert while I was on the elliptical yesterday and found a few more upbeat tunes to add to the official "Half Marathon" playlist!



Yup, that's me! I started using it a few weeks and love it. It keeps me running a bit slower but I have alot more energy left later in the run. I still use my iPod though, I just turn the volume all the way up on the metronome, clip it to the shirt strap so it's near my ear, and I can still hear it fine, even with the tunes.

Ordered the last part of my outfit this weekend. Couldn't find exactly what I was looking for but I think I'll be able to make do. Not going the traditional running skirt route this year, but there will be no doubt I'm all about the wining and dining! What's everyone planning on this year?

Kimberley

whoops! Forgot to answer you about songs. Yesterday I added Wake Me Up by Avicii, True Love by Pink, and Clarity by Zedd. All worked wonderfully! Adding new music is my favorite motivator when I don't feel like going out for a long run. Also, in case any of you have young kids and have seen Planes - the opening song ROCKS to run to! "Nothing Can Stop Me Now"

 

[cewait]

anyhow, Coach, standby.... might be looking for input once I see how the legs are feeling tomorrow afternoon....

In the mean time, warm up with a walk, stretch and roll the quads and IT bands.

 

[pix13dust]

Hi all!

Training question: I'm doing the Galloway plan and it calls for a 12.5 mile run on 10/12.

We decided to take a quick trip to NYC that weekend. Hubby and DS are going to the Jets game and me and DD will be spending $$$$.
My question is, do I just skip that run? Maybe do it on Friday 10/11 or Monday 10/14?

So far my runs are going fine ( knock on wood ). The longest has been 9.5 and I have an 11 planned for Saturday.

TIA
Melinda

 

[cewait]

Hi all!

Training question: I'm doing the Galloway plan and it calls for a 12.5 mile run on 10/12.

We decided to take a quick trip to NYC that weekend. Hubby and DS are going to the Jets game and me and DD will be spending $$$$.
My question is, do I just skip that run? Maybe do it on Friday 10/11 or Monday 10/14?

So far my runs are going fine ( knock on wood ). The longest has been 9.5 and I have an 11 planned for Saturday.

TIA
Melinda

It's really your choice. I am in favor of moving the run to accommodate the trip OR even running while on the trip. Think of the fun of running early on Sunday AM in NYC. As a coach I am going to suggest running prior to the trip rather than after; that assures the higher likelihood of actually running.

In the alternative, while I think a missed run on Jeff’s plan is a little tough due to the higher importance of these runs, I also am fairly certain that if your long runs are going well and you have made most if not all of them, missing one is not the end of the world. If you do bail altogether on the run, take a mile out of the following long run (13 ish making it 12). It leaves you a one mile makeup on race day, but that will go unnoticed. If you had said you were struggling, missed a run or two or was unsure that you could actually go the distance, I would not offer up the alternative.

Again, it is really up to you. – Hope this helps

 

[sully&mike]

Please share your goal! Are you going for something sub-1:45? Even more ambitious? I'm sure that, starting in corral A or B, an awesome time is totally attainable.

I just want to go sub-2:30 right now because I know that is almost a given with my training at a 10-10:45 pace up to 10 miles.

2:30 is a really great goal!

My goal is 1:59:59.
To do that, I have to keep my pace at sub 9:00 miles. My training has been very consistently in line with that. I'm interested in seeing how I handle a crowded 10k this Sunday. The Great Race in Pgh sold out and I'm signed-up. It is my 'trial run' for managing the crowds at WDW. I'm going for speed/time. My goal for the 10k is 52:30. I can push a little bit harder when I know that I'm only going for 6 miles vs 13! My first/only 10k was on a super-humid late June day on a hilly course. 55:36. I've pushed my body a heck of a lot harder since then and I know that I am stronger. This course is predominantly downhill. I should be able to improve on that time by a whole heck of a lot! (I hope so, anyway). I'm nervous, but hopeful.

I did my long/slow run on Sunday. I finally crossed my 10 mile threshold by completing 11 miles in 1:39:41. (Avg Pace 9:04 min/mile [max pace for a mile was 9:20 min/mile]). I never really pushed hard, just went out and ran. I'm not going to lie and say that I didn't think about giving-up about 100 times during my long run....but I'm also not going to lie and say that by mile 10 - I wanted to run they full 13. I just knew that I wasn't trained / ready yet for the full 13 and didn't want to risk injury this far into my training.

Planning out my long-runs for the rest of my training (6 LONG runs weekends to go!) :
This week is my Race-Pace 10k!
Expecting another 10 miles on 10/4-10/6 weekend.
Go for the FULL 13 miles on the 10/11-10/13 weekend.
Then starting to taper-down. 9-10 miles 10/17-10/19 weekend
7-8 miles on 10/25-10-27
5-7 miles on 11/1-11/3

That's all she wrote! (or ran as the case may be!)

 

[funnybunny921]

Been a while since I posted - last weekend was the 9.5 so with warm up and cool down I hit a 10 mile run. This weekend was supposed to be a 3 mile with a MM, but I just couldn't motivate myself, I was tried and under the weather. Hopefully that won't hurt my 11 miles this weekend.


Also I was wondering is it normal for a training program to over shoot the race mileage? The 14 mile thing is tweaking me out a bit.

 

[pix13dust]

Thanks Coach! I will do the run Friday before we leave - it will give me an excuse to leave work early!!
I was leaning towards Friday - I thought it might mimic the race night followed by a day in the parks only it will be NYC.

Melinda

 

[Figment1990]

Thanks Coach! I will do the run Friday before we leave - it will give me an excuse to leave work early!!
I was leaning towards Friday - I thought it might mimic the race night followed by a day in the parks only it will be NYC.

Melinda

This! I 100% agree that if you can get out and run before you go away for the weekend, it's MUCH more likely that you'll run vs. planning to run the day you come home! Enjoy your trip

2:30 is a really great goal!

My goal is 1:59:59.
To do that, I have to keep my pace at sub 9:00 miles. My training has been very consistently in line with that. I'm interested in seeing how I handle a crowded 10k this Sunday. The Great Race in Pgh sold out and I'm signed-up. It is my 'trial run' for managing the crowds at WDW. I'm going for speed/time. My goal for the 10k is 52:30. I can push a little bit harder when I know that I'm only going for 6 miles vs 13! My first/only 10k was on a super-humid late June day on a hilly course. 55:36. I've pushed my body a heck of a lot harder since then and I know that I am stronger. This course is predominantly downhill. I should be able to improve on that time by a whole heck of a lot! (I hope so, anyway). I'm nervous, but hopeful.

I did my long/slow run on Sunday. I finally crossed my 10 mile threshold by completing 11 miles in 1:39:41. (Avg Pace 9:04 min/mile [max pace for a mile was 9:20 min/mile]). I never really pushed hard, just went out and ran. I'm not going to lie and say that I didn't think about giving-up about 100 times during my long run....but I'm also not going to lie and say that by mile 10 - I wanted to run they full 13. I just knew that I wasn't trained / ready yet for the full 13 and didn't want to risk injury this far into my training.

Planning out my long-runs for the rest of my training (6 LONG runs weekends to go!) :
This week is my Race-Pace 10k!
Expecting another 10 miles on 10/4-10/6 weekend.
Go for the FULL 13 miles on the 10/11-10/13 weekend.
Then starting to taper-down. 9-10 miles 10/17-10/19 weekend
7-8 miles on 10/25-10-27
5-7 miles on 11/1-11/3

That's all she wrote! (or ran as the case may be!)

I'll be at the Great Race also! The crowds have me worried too. I actually think it will be worse than the Wine & dine because at least at the start of the wine and dine, the roads you are on are massively wide. But everyone I talk to about the race says that it really is a "Great" race. ha ha. aptly named. I'm gunning for a 1:10 or better, not nearly as fast as your 52:30, but for me, it's a stretch. I know I can do it, but whether I'll be able to do it and come out the other side uninjured is holding me back a bit.

My planned runs are:
9/29 - 10k race
10/6 - 5 miles
10/13 - 9.5 or 10
10/20 - 5.5
10/27 - 11 or 11.5
11/3 - 5

Been a while since I posted - last weekend was the 9.5 so with warm up and cool down I hit a 10 mile run. This weekend was supposed to be a 3 mile with a MM, but I just couldn't motivate myself, I was tried and under the weather. Hopefully that won't hurt my 11 miles this weekend.


Also I was wondering is it normal for a training program to over shoot the race mileage? The 14 mile thing is tweaking me out a bit.

I'm not sure if it's "normal" although I think most speculate that it is common for Galloway to overshoot the mileage because of his walk/run interval method. As I mentioned above, I'm not going above 11 or 12 pre-race. I intended to follow Galloway's plan last fall, and then could not due to some injuries. I did two 11's (nearly a month apart thanks to that injury) and was able to do the 13.1 with no problem on race day.

 

[cewait]

********
Also I was wondering is it normal for a training program to over shoot the race mileage? The 14 mile thing is tweaking me out a bit.

Frankly, Jeff and elite runner programs are the only programs that overdistance training.

Jeff's reason is purely aimed at the beginning runner who may have mental doubts and to a lesser extent, his belief in where a runner’s wall is located. Jeff’s answer for why he wants you running 14 miles in the half program and 26 in the full is "You don't (have to go that distance), but our experience tells us that you will have a good experience in the marathon if you do and a negative marathon experience if you don't.” His thoughts are that your wall mirrors your last most recent training run distance. Thus, in his program you run the longer distances. As a coach who has worked under that program, under USAFit and developed a few of his own programs, I would rather see a runner work a little more on weekday runs and pull back a little more on weekend distances.

Must you run 14 for a half? No, you really need to run 9-12 miles on a long run, preferably within the last 2-3 weeks pre-race. There are a serious number of runners in the race with a long run in the 6-7 mile range and they do well. Yes, they do suffer some in the later miles, but I would really like to follow up with folks who ran 14 and see where they started suffering as well.

If it is an issue, cut that last run back to 10-13 miles and call it good. If on race day you have issues at mile 10, 11 or 12, you are well within the sounds of the finish and it just a “matter of keeping the relentless pursuit of forward momentum” for that short amount of time.

 

[funnybunny921]

Frankly, Jeff and elite runner programs are the only programs that overdistance training.

Jeff's reason is purely aimed at the beginning runner who may have mental doubts and to a lesser extent, his belief in where a runner’s wall is located. Jeff’s answer for why he wants you running 14 miles in the half program and 26 in the full is "You don't (have to go that distance), but our experience tells us that you will have a good experience in the marathon if you do and a negative marathon experience if you don't.” His thoughts are that your wall mirrors your last most recent training run distance. Thus, in his program you run the longer distances. As a coach who has worked under that program, under USAFit and developed a few of his own programs, I would rather see a runner work a little more on weekday runs and pull back a little more on weekend distances.

Must you run 14 for a half? No, you really need to run 9-12 miles on a long run, preferably within the last 2-3 weeks pre-race. There are a serious number of runners in the race with a long run in the 6-7 mile range and they do well. Yes, they do suffer some in the later miles, but I would really like to follow up with folks who ran 14 and see where they started suffering as well.

If it is an issue, cut that last run back to 10-13 miles and call it good. If on race day you have issues at mile 10, 11 or 12, you are well within the sounds of the finish and it just a “matter of keeping the relentless pursuit of forward momentum” for that short amount of time.

thanks for the insight I figured it was a mental thing, and as long as I am running without major pain i will follow the program and run the distance. With the amount I travel I am happy if I can get in 2 workouts during the week. So this program overall works well for me, and for my 10 miles I was pacing 13min/miles with my 5 min warm up and cool down, so I don't think I will have a problem finishing. I am actually quite happy that i have maintained that pace as a first timer

 

[Kat73]

Hi guys! I think I'm a little behind I will have to go back and reread how everyone's been doing. What a fantastic day for a run!! It's beautiful here, perfect running weather. I delayed my (shorter) long run by a day and boy am I glad I did! got in 6.5 miles and felt GREAT Ran most of it at a 2/1 pace and then somehow, magically, ran the last two miles at a 5/1 pace
Just wanted to send out some positive vibes and hope everyone else has the same good luck this week!! Can't believe we're like what, 45 days away? WOO HOO!!

 

[PlutoBaby]

whoops! Forgot to answer you about songs. Yesterday I added Wake Me Up by Avicii, True Love by Pink, and Clarity by Zedd. All worked wonderfully! Adding new music is my favorite motivator when I don't feel like going out for a long run. Also, in case any of you have young kids and have seen Planes - the opening song ROCKS to run to! "Nothing Can Stop Me Now"

I REALLY need to start listening to stations other than classic rock and the 80's!

I did my long/slow run on Sunday. I finally crossed my 10 mile threshold by completing 11 miles in 1:39:41. (Avg Pace 9:04 min/mile [max pace for a mile was 9:20 min/mile]). I never really pushed hard, just went out and ran. I'm not going to lie and say that I didn't think about giving-up about 100 times during my long run....but I'm also not going to lie and say that by mile 10 - I wanted to run they full 13. I just knew that I wasn't trained / ready yet for the full 13 and didn't want to risk injury this far into my training.

Okay, first of all, I'm officially renaming you SMOKIN' Sully...9:04?! REALLY?!?! And yes, that's jealousy speaking.

Due to IT issues last year, I maxed out at 11 miles and had NO problems hitting the 13 during the race. I think I read somewhere (and Coach, please jump in here if I'm wrong), that it's a mental game with your body to exceed the race mileage. Once your body goes past the 13.1, let's say the 15 and 17 mile long runs, it sees 13 as no big deal. I personally believe that since there's so much extraneous stuff going on throughout the course, (music, characters, the parks lit up at night), you're more distracted and get caught up in it, not even realizing you're still running a race. Just some random thoughts...

 

[capeseal]

Lots I want to comment on but first a question for those familiar with Jeff Galloway and his Magic Mile:

I train during my long runs at a 10:25-10:45 pace and that feels fairly comfortable. There is no way that I could sustain an 8:25-8:45 mile for 13 miles (my 3-mile training run pace is usually 9:45 per mile.) So does that mean I am training at a pace that is too fast? I can't imagine slowing it down much more in training and assumed that if this was my pace now it would be my pace on race day barring some extenuating circumstance. Or does the Magic Mile calculator apply only to people training using intervals? I had to finally watch a video to get a clear explanation of the calculation but now I am more confused than ever.

 

[heyitsmejosh]

i had to switch up my training plan from the normal one since im running the TOT as well the week before.. so i did 10 miles this past saturday and i gotta say im still feeling the effects from that one, im still pretty sore and feel a little run down like a weekend of a too much partying lol. im sure having gone three weeks between long runs is the culprit

 

[cewait]

Lots I want to comment on but first a question for those familiar with Jeff Galloway and his Magic Mile:

I train during my long runs at a 10:25-10:45 pace and that feels fairly comfortable. There is no way that I could sustain an 8:25-8:45 mile for 13 miles (my 3-mile training run pace is usually 9:45 per mile.) So does that mean I am training at a pace that is too fast? I can't imagine slowing it down much more in training and assumed that if this was my pace now it would be my pace on race day barring some extenuating circumstance. Or does the Magic Mile calculator apply only to people training using intervals? I had to finally watch a video to get a clear explanation of the calculation but now I am more confused than ever.

First, lets explore the MM. In real simple terms, you are running a one mile tempo run, or slightly faster. Basically, running at a pace that is just at your anaerobic threshold. You should feel at the end of the mile like you could run maybe an additional lap, but not much more.

Next, the MM is run in intervals and on the recovery week long run. So a run of 5 miles will have two MM intervals. For the calculation, you average the MM.

I am assuming the comment of 8:25-8:45 pace is a reference to your MM pace. That would align with the 9:45 three mile run. If one averages the 8:25 and 8:45 values you would have a 8:35 average. Jeff believes that the average half marathon runner must run about 30% slower than the MM pace to finish the half comfortably. 1.3 (130%) times the 8:35 yields an 11:10 half marathon pace. Based on that, your long run pace is in line with where you should be. Given weather that is near your training effort, a good race day diet and no other issues, you are looking at an approximate 2:26 half.

That is if I assumed correctly from your question and Jeff's assumptions are valid.

Now saying this, if this is your first half, I would not start off shooting for an 11:10 pace; rather, I would start off at your training pace and if you are feeling good at mile 8 or 9, have you add a little more speed.

Hope this helps

 

[capeseal]

First, lets explore the MM. In real simple terms, you are running a one mile tempo run, or slightly faster. Basically, running at a pace that is just at your anaerobic threshold. You should feel at the end of the mile like you could run maybe an additional lap, but not much more.

Next, the MM is run in intervals and on the recovery week long run. So a run of 5 miles will have two MM intervals. For the calculation, you average the MM.

I am assuming the comment of 8:25-8:45 pace is a reference to your MM pace. That would align with the 9:45 three mile run. If one averages the 8:25 and 8:45 values you would have a 8:35 average. Jeff believes that the average half marathon runner must run about 30% slower than the MM pace to finish the half comfortably. 1.3 (130%) times the 8:35 yields an 11:10 half marathon pace. Based on that, your long run pace is in line with where you should be. Given weather that is near your training effort, a good race day diet and no other issues, you are looking at an approximate 2:26 half.

That is if I assumed correctly from your question and Jeff's assumptions are valid.

Now saying this, if this is your first half, I would not start off shooting for an 11:10 pace; rather, I would start off at your training pace and if you are feeling good at mile 8 or 9, have you add a little more speed.

Hope this helps

Thank you so much for trying to answer my questions. I really appreciate you taking the time to help me make sense of this.

So, according to the MM calculations, I would run (under ideal conditions) around an 11:10 pace on race day and should train at a 13:10 pace? I train very comfortably at a 10:25-10:45 pace and can't imagine slowing to anything slower than 11-minute miles for training. Granted, from your description, I didn't run my MM as quickly as I could/should have but it seems like it would be really hard to slow it down for training as much as the Galloway plan advises. Thanks again for trying to help me out with this

eta- Wait! So, I would add 2 minutes per mile to my magic mile pace in order to arrive at my training pace? Because, if so, then that does make sense since I am running my long runs 2 minutes per mile slower than my magic mile. I'm sorry if I am being so confusing.