The nutters in CA who chained up 13 kids...

[Hikergirl]

I think one of the starkest examples of the level of control/brainwashing/fear they instilled in those kids is that two girls initially escaped but one was so frightened she went back before the call was made to police. Forget saying something to a random stranger at Disney with Mom and Dad right there, these kids were so terrified and controlled that once out and away one could not bring herself to stay out long enough to ask for help.

And one of them attended classes at the community college, I think it was a music class. Never said a word to anyone about what was going on.
I can't imagine what those parents were telling those kids what would happen if they ever told anyone.
The older girl who escaped had been planning it for 2 years. It's really all so sad.

 

[NHdisneylover]

also, from the article I linked in the Daily Mail---the grandfather is quoted as saying he does not believe the stories of abuse and want to get the truth from the children as soon as he can speak to them on the phone----which just makes me feel more that the grandparents were aware and possibly even part of this in some way.

 

[NHdisneylover]

And one of them attended classes at the community college, I think it was a music class. Never said a word to anyone about what was going on.
I can't imagine what those parents were telling those kids what would happen if they ever told anyone.
The older girl who escaped had been planning it for 2 years. It's really all so sad.

exactly

 

[morgan98]

also, from the article I linked in the Daily Mail---the grandfather is quoted as saying he does not believe the stories of abuse and want to get the truth from the children as soon as he can speak to them on the phone----which just makes me feel more that the grandparents were aware and possibly even part of this in some way.

Yes, or that the crazy didn't fall too far from the tree.

 

[Hikergirl]

Could very well be. If they washed their hands the “wrong” way, they were punished for “playing with water”!




I suspect this too, and the more I think about it, it seems like the most logical explanation. The charge against only the dad is a lewd act on a child under 14. The girl who escaped is 17. Suppose she was 13 when she was raped and impregnated by her father.

If you do the math, considering a 13-year-old is actually anywhere between 13 and 14 (she could’ve been 13 yrs and 10 mos, for example) and that a 2-year-old is anywhere between 2 and 3 years, and you add in a 9 month pregnancy, it is possible that the 17 yo is the mother of the youngest child. The only question is whether a 13 yo in poor health with stunted development is capable of conceiving and carrying a child. Sadly, she was, in all probability. IMO, the timing is just too coincidental.

I read somewhere that all the children were born in a hospital. I can't remember what news source it was though, I will look for it
They say all so I'm assuming that includes the baby, if it doesn't than that is horrible journalism.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...-siblings-allowed-eat-once-day-shower-n838671

All the children were born in hospitals, but they almost never saw doctors and never visited a dentist, Hestrin said. "These individuals sleep all day and are up all night," said Hestrin, who said they typically went to sleep between 4 a.m. and 5 a.m.

 

[cabanafrau]

Unfortunately, I think the law is on Grandma's side. Next of kin usually have rights to take the children, if she wants them, over someone unrelated. The court would have to prove WHY she wouldn't be good for them to live with her. Being a loon isn't necessarily enough to stop her from getting the kids.

The court can provide a basis for choosing not to place the children with family. There are factors against grandma, or any other relatives for that matter, without the need to delve into any of the matters pertaining to the allegations in the case itself. The children have special needs and it's highly unlikely one person or family will be able to address them all -- particularly one who is in her eighties. Grandma lives across the country and has been far from a regular presence in their lives, therefore the familial bond could be considered tenuous enough not to automatically be presumed beneficial to the children and therefore a factor in placement.

Those types of decisions happen in the more mundane abuse and neglect cases every day. I mentioned upthread that grandma's comments to the press would also be a factor against placement with her. The presumption that biology dictates placement is not true.

 

[cabanafrau]

That makes a lot of sense, and please I hope no one thinks I’m questioning their account or trying to minimize anything. These parents are absolute monsters and this entire situation is unthinkable. I personally am just having such a tough time wrapping my head around it and am trying to make sense of it.

I did some very limited work with children that were neglected and abused in the extreme (locked in closets for weeks, never let out of the house, chained in the yard cases). In those cases the kids abilities to function above instinct was gone. They would flinch from light, the rooms had to be kept dim for them; if someone accidentally touched them they would cower like an animal that was abused. There is zero way those children could have gone to a supermarket because there were non-functioning due to the abuse. They didn’t have the ability to please their abusers or rationally behave.

No two cases are the same and potentially having so many siblings in similar situations could have helped them cope. It’s just so hard to hear what they were experiencing and how well they seem to function (given how long standing and horrific their experience).

I don't think this is something that sense can be made of. I think you're unqualified to make sense out of it because you're a normal, rational human and this situation was far from that.

BTW, the comment you're unqualified is not to be taken as negative in any way whatsoever.

 

[AppleDumpling]

I wish I could get this out of my mind and quit looking into it---it's so horrible. But for some reason I feel compelled to want to know what went on and WHY those kids were subjected to this.

I know, me too.

 

[RedAngie]

also, from the article I linked in the Daily Mail---the grandfather is quoted as saying he does not believe the stories of abuse and want to get the truth from the children as soon as he can speak to them on the phone----which just makes me feel more that the grandparents were aware and possibly even part of this in some way.

Grandmother's statements made me feel that she and her husband were well aware of the situation and approved of it. Grandfather's quote sealed it for me. I hope the authorities keep the grandparents far away from those kids.

Unfortunately I don't think we're going to hear any more gems from the grandparents. One article said they've retained a lawyer who advised them NOT to speak.

 

[cabanafrau]

Grandmother's statements made me feel that she and her husband were well aware of the situation and approved of it. Grandfather's quote sealed it for me. I hope the authorities keep the grandparents far away from those kids.

Unfortunately I don't think we're going to hear any more gems from the grandparents. One article said they've retained a lawyer who advised them NOT to speak.[/QUOTE]

It's interesting they've retained a lawyer. There's very little likelihood any charges pertaining to the situation could be brought against them, absent any of the children making direct allegations against them also. Which makes me wonder, is the lawyer they've retained for them or their son? If it's for them it would likely be in the interest of making a bid for custody. It was guaranteed any counsel for their son would promptly tell them to shut their pie holes.

 

[NHdisneylover]

It's interesting they've retained a lawyer. There's very little likelihood any charges pertaining to the situation could be brought against them, absent any of the children making direct allegations against them also. Which makes me wonder, is the lawyer they've retained for them or their son? If it's for them it would likely be in the interest of making a bid for custody. It was guaranteed any counsel for their son would promptly tell them to shut their pie holes.

Or they expect that there will be direct allegations against themselves as well.

 

[RangerPooh]

I too have wondered if the toddler belongs to one of the girls. While the reports only say that there was one lewd act committed to a minor, I wouldn't be surprised if there is more that we don't yet know about. Assuming that we only know about the one because of the baby. The sick side of me sees this akin to some of the VC Andrews stories that I read as a teen/college student. The only part missing is incestuous behavior between siblings.

 

[Imzadi]

We may never know the "why" other than that I believe there are simply evil people in this world. :-(

Even evil people have a "why." I once met the then head profiling detective of the NYPD at a writers convention decades ago. He also used to teach the homicide detectives. He repeated something to me twice to make sure I'd remember it and to understand how important it is and the basis of the homicide detectives working a case: "You never know what goes through the mind of a person and what two things they link together that makes them do what they do." He said it doesn't have to make sense to anyone else. Just to that person. Even in madness or insanity, a person has linked two things together that makes them go off the way they do. Wars are started because a person with power linked two things together that he feels someone else did to start a war over. The job of the homicide detectives is to figure out what those two things are. That's how they find the killer or get ahead of him to catch him.

 

[Pink Partridge]

I have great satisfaction that these two people are now prisoners and will most likely never be free again. I don't care what caused them to do what they did. I hope they suffer.

 

[cabanafrau]

These victims are people who have a tremendous burden simply because of the family they were born into and what they have had to endure. That's more than enough for anyone to have to overcome. Those burdens are substantial enough without everybody taking out a flashlight and poking into dark and very private corners and speculating for nothing more than curiosity. Authorities and medical providers have good reason to be privy to the details.

 

[Imzadi]

These victims are people who have a tremendous burden simply because of the family they were born into and what they have had to endure. That's more than enough for anyone to have to overcome. Those burdens are substantial enough without everybody taking out a flashlight and poking into dark and very private corners and speculating for nothing more than curiosity. Authorities and medical providers have good reason to be privy to the details.

So that means you are bowing out of this thread going forward?

 

[Wishing on a star]

Unfortunately, I think the law is on Grandma's side.

I agree with cabanafrau about the Grandma.
Saying the law is on her side would be saying that she would GrandparentsRights. As I had posted earlier.
I am not any kind of legal specilaist, and do not know the specific laws in these States..
But, again, Grandparents rights are just non-existent, or very very limited at best.

In this case, the Grandparents are suspect of knowing about this abuse, and refusing to report, actively trying to justify and cover-up. etc...
I don't think they have a snowball's chance in hades.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Nobody should have to bow out...
We all have the same concerns and desire to discuss this.

It is all of the unwarranted and, really kind of warped, focus on assumptions and speculation that is not really needed.

Nobody needs to be suggesting that anyone who is not doing that, and who is trying to give a reasonable viewpoint based on what is known thru the authorities, should 'bow out'.

 

[cabanafrau]

So that means you are bowing out of this thread going forward?

Actually I was trying to suggest that maybe it's not helpful in the least to speculate about who may or may not have been the victim of sexual assault and speculate about what may have resulted. You're quite free to see it differently.

Considering I didn't quote anyone I find your response curious.

 

[cabanafrau]

I agree with cabanafrau about the Grandma.
Saying the law is on her side would be saying that she would GrandparentsRights. As I had posted earlier.
I am not any kind of legal specilaist, and do not know the specific laws in these States..
But, again, Grandparents rights are just non-existent, or very very limited at best.

In this case, the Grandparents are suspect of knowing about this abuse, and refusing to report, actively trying to justify and cover-up. etc...
I don't think they have a snowball's chance in hades.

Grandparents rights isn't a factor in the slightest and wasn't at all what I referred to.