The Liberal Thread #2 - No Debate Please

[wvrevy]

So what's the solution to the Florida mess then? No matter which scenario is proposed someone is upset and someone feels it's unfair.

Either re-vote - and the DNC should foot the entire bill - or do what you said you were going to do and refuse to count the delegates. Those are the only fair choices. Period. And I will say again, if the party chooses to count those votes and it's enough to put Hillary ahead when she otherwise wouldn't be, then I'm done with the Democratic party. They'll have seen the last dime they'll ever see from me, and that includes time invested on the phones. If Hillary wins it fairly, I can accept that. That's part of politics. But to be handed the nomination? Sorry, but that would be the end of it for me, and their defeat in November would be exactly what they deserved.

Also, I don't want to vote for a candidate just because some people don't like that candidate. That seems to be the call now..."vote for Obama because no one likes Hillary". Is that really the right reason to vote for someone?

Please don't mistake the ongoing argument - started because someone couldn't seem to understand that there are an awful lot of people in this country that can't stand Hillary Clinton - as a reason to vote for Obama. I don't believe anyone should put "electability" high on their list of requirements for a candidate in the party. If a majority of Democrats decide she is the best candidate for the job, then she deserves the chance to run. Period.

As for reasons to vote for Barack, there are many detailed on this thread and elsewhere.

 

[Honu]

So what's the solution to the Florida mess then? No matter which scenario is proposed someone is upset and someone feels it's unfair.

The solution is to learn from our mistakes and change the rules for future elections. Nothing can be done about the Florida votes. I feel for the residents of Florida and I would be pissed off if I were them, but the election has to abide by the rules that are in place.

 

[Honu]

Either re-vote - and the DNC should foot the entire bill - or do what you said you were going to do and refuse to count the delegates.

Are we going to allow the candidates that dropped out after the FL vote back into the race and then redo all the other states too? It's just not possible to undo this mess.

 

[wvrevy]

I dont get the whole"we need a uniter' thing anyway. The PEOPLE are not divided, the politians are....and they have & will ALWAYS be. Just now we have the unreasonable GOP who sit with their arms folded and pout like 2 years olds when they dont get their own way. They just have to be ousted!
Dont even try to "reach out" to them...thats a HUGE mistake!

Like it or not, this country is very much divided along idealogical lines, and that weakens all of us. No, I don't mean in terms of national defense, I mean as a society.

Can any one person bridge that divide? Honestly, I don't know. What I do know is that trying to "stick it to" Republicans should not enter into the conversation. Yes, I'm bitter about our treatment for the last 8 years. Yes, I'm disgusted that they've turned the word "liberal" - a word that means I stand for an individual's right to choose what is right for his or her own life...a word that means I stand up for people who can't stand up for themselves...a word that means I don't snear when looking around at the rest of the world, nor at ideas just because they happen to have been forwarded by "the French" - they've turned the word into something they say as if it were insulting.

The only way this country will move forward is if it moves together. Of course there are idealogues on both sides that will never accept working with the "enemy". But the only thing that kind of thinking brings is gridlock, as both sides dig their heals in like a bunch of kindergarteners intent on getting their own way.

 

[wvrevy]

Are we going to allow the candidates that dropped out after the FL vote back into the race and then redo all the other states too? It's just not possible to undo this mess.

If they want to come back in and campaign in those states, they're welcome to do so. But let's be realistic, here. It is a mess, and one that the DNC created. But the back-of-the-pack candidates are no longer involved, so it simply doesn't enter into the equation. This is a race between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama. If neither of them gets the magic number through pledged delegates (I loathe the "super delegate" nonsense, but am willing to include them since those are the current rules), then hold a special primary a week after the final state primaries and simply have people put an 'x' beside one of their names. Otherwise, disallow the delegates completely, like you said you were going to do.

 

[eclectics]

Are we going to allow the candidates that dropped out after the FL vote back into the race and then redo all the other states too? It's just not possible to undo this mess.

I agree. The DNC was at fault for having a hissy fit but the state committees are equally at fault for not wanting to play by the rules. The voters of Florida and Michigan have a lot of culprits in which to spread their wrath, imho. I say, put this all behind us and learn from it.

 

[NewJersey]

I just got back from Obama's town hall in Alexandria, VA. My God, what an amazing individual he is - smart, energetic, inspiring, down to earth, candid, and funny. It was my first time seeing him in person and I think my favorite parts were: a) the diversity of the crowd: races, ages, religions. b) the Q&A portion - he gave intelligent, honest, and straight forward answers to voters' questions and even brought an undecided voter's son on stage since he was such a fan of Obama. and c) the energy of the crowd - it was absolutely uplifting.

I'm so ready to phone bank my *** off tonight to VA/MD/DC voters. We are trying to get 67% in DC so we sweep all the delegates.

 

[Honu]

Thanks for the update Tim. I hope to see him speak in person someday.

It's 57% Obama - 42% Clinton in Maryland right now.

 

[NewJersey]

Thanks for the update Tim. I hope to see him speak in person someday.

It's 57% Obama - 42% Clinton in Maryland right now.

You'll see him when he is campaigning for the general election.

I saw that, and 44% are in but I think there are caucuses ongoing until 8 pm, which surprises me that they released numbers so far.

 

[wvrevy]

And Obama wins yet again!

No, not Maine (although )....the Grammys!

http://www.reuters.com/article/vcCandidateFeed1/idUSN0852813420080210

 

[LakeAriel]

I just got back from Obama's town hall in Alexandria, VA. My God, what an amazing individual he is - smart, energetic, inspiring, down to earth, candid, and funny. It was my first time seeing him in person and I think my favorite parts were: a) the diversity of the crowd: races, ages, religions. b) the Q&A portion - he gave intelligent, honest, and straight forward answers to voters' questions and even brought an undecided voter's son on stage since he was such a fan of Obama. and c) the energy of the crowd - it was absolutely uplifting.

I'm so ready to phone bank my *** off tonight to VA/MD/DC voters. We are trying to get 67% in DC so we sweep all the delegates.

A young man the Hideout would be proud of!!

 

[eclectics]

Totally OT.... but I had no idea that ALL Presidential campaign contributions are public record. I happened to glance at my hometown newspaper online and found a link where I could see which one of my neighbors contributed to which candidate and how much they gave. All I had to do was type in my zip code. I kinda felt like I was invading their privacy, but I guess I'm just being silly.

 

[DISUNC]

Like it or not, this country is very much divided along idealogical lines, and that weakens all of us. No, I don't mean in terms of national defense, I mean as a society.

Can any one person bridge that divide? Honestly, I don't know. What I do know is that trying to "stick it to" Republicans should not enter into the conversation. Yes, I'm bitter about our treatment for the last 8 years. Yes, I'm disgusted that they've turned the word "liberal" - a word that means I stand for an individual's right to choose what is right for his or her own life...a word that means I stand up for people who can't stand up for themselves...a word that means I don't snear when looking around at the rest of the world, nor at ideas just because they happen to have been forwarded by "the French" - they've turned the word into something they say as if it were insulting.

The only way this country will move forward is if it moves together. Of course there are idealogues on both sides that will never accept working with the "enemy". But the only thing that kind of thinking brings is gridlock, as both sides dig their heals in like a bunch of kindergarteners intent on getting their own way.

Ok I see ya point.

 

[LuvDuke]

I agree. The DNC was at fault for having a hissy fit but the state committees are equally at fault for not wanting to play by the rules. The voters of Florida and Michigan have a lot of culprits in which to spread their wrath, imho. I say, put this all behind us and learn from it.

Here we go again: It wasn't the state committees that set the date in Florida. It was the Republican Florida state legislature that set the date.

 

[LuvDuke]

DANG! You are ON FIRE today!

I see it his way too. "The Enemy of my Enemy is my Friend!" My enemy is the Republican party, Their enemy is Hillary...Therefore Hillary is my 'friend"

I always thought it was very odd & circumspect how the GOP and their Media outlets have always been rather kind to Obama. Very suspicious to me.

Thank you, thank you verrrry much.

The Democratic ticket could be Mouse/Duck and I'd vote for it.

 

[DISUNC]

And Obama wins yet again!

No, not Maine (although )....the Grammys!

http://www.reuters.com/article/vcCandidateFeed1/idUSN0852813420080210

Did ya know he won out over CLINTON....Bill that is....He was nominated in the same catagory!!!!!

 

[wvrevy]

Ok, since my last prediction is proving prophetic with Barack's sweep this weekend, it's time for another:

Barack will sweep the Chesapeake primaries this week (Maryland where he has a 26 point lead, DC, and Virginia, where he leads by 18 points) by ever increasing margins. He will not lose another state between now and March 4th. Which means, for all intents and purposes, he'll have a large lead in delegates (including the ridiculous and undemocratic "super" delegates) as Texas, Ohio, and others head to the polls. What does that mean?

Hillary MUST win both Ohio and Texas, or she's done. Either would be a huge loss for her, as she once had 2-1 leads in the polls. If she wins both, then the race won't be decided until April 22nd when Pennsylvania heads to the polls, and the winner of that will be the party's nominee.

With the number of college students in Ohio, I have to say I'm fairly confident that Barack will do very well there. Plus, Hillary's biggest demographic advantage - hispanics - amount to a fairly miniscule percentage of Ohio voters. As for Texas...well, I don't like his chances there.

BUT...if Barack should happen to pull off the upset, you can look for a concession speech from Hillary shortly thereafter. Granted, it probably won't happen....

...but it won't keep me from the phone bank on March 4!!!

 

[DISUNC]

Thank you, thank you verrrry much.

The Democratic ticket could be Mouse/Duck and I'd vote for it.

Ya mean "Duck/Mouse"!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[eclectics]

Here we go again: It wasn't the state committees that set the date in Florida. It was the Republican Florida state legislature that set the date.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/24/us/politics/24florida.html?_r=1&ref=politics&oref=slogin

 

[wvrevy]

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/24/us/politics/24florida.html?_r=1&ref=politics&oref=slogin

“We’re going to make sure our voices are heard loud and clear on that convention floor,” she said, adding that the state’s entire Democratic Congressional delegation supported the decision to stick with Jan. 29.

Ouch...kinda puts the kibosh on the whole "The Republicans made us do it" argument, huh?

And the funniest part is, if the idiots had just left things where they were, they'd have been a HUGE part of the nomination process this time, since the race is so close. Guess it's one of those "carefull what you wish for" kinda things, huh?