The Liberal Thread #2 - No Debate Please

[wvrevy]

Let me address this point by point:
[QUOTE="Got Disney";23327789]First of all this thread has turned into a love fest for Obama and a Hillary bashing thread...so if you need to pointing fingers go no farther than your own back door.[/QUOTE]

Not sure what this is supposed to mean. This is the liberal thread, and yes, we had two good candidates for president. I have never seen anything wrong with, on this thread, discussing those two candidates rationally. You, however, chose to start posting hit-pieces from other publications against Obama, and yes, I had a problem with that. The majority of this thread is pro-Obama, just as the majority of the country is pro-Obama. I'm not sure why that should be surprising, or cause the enmity you seem to have.

[QUOTE="Got Disney";23327789]The Obama threads have turned into a Hillary bashing also.[/QUOTE]

The only "bashing" I've seen - or done, for that matter - on the Obama threads have been in relation to Hillary's going negative.

[QUOTE="Got Disney";23327789]Wvrey you did not come into the other thread to extend an olive leaf you came to gloat and you know it. You have been in that thread every day with insults to all of us. That is why we did not say thanks to you.[/QUOTE]

Why thanks for telling me what I "know".

[QUOTE="Got Disney";23327789]You can trash Hillary if you want but you have come in there and calling people for the most part saying if we vote for Hillary we have no brains or are stupid (not in those words because you sis want want points or to get banned). Than after making remarks like that you say...O yea but I will vote for her ...What [/QUOTE]

I have not ONCE called anybody stupid or told them they don't have any brains for voting for Hillary. Not once. Either prove that comment or take it back, because it simply is NOT true. The closest I've come is to tell people to do their research when faced with complaints that Barack doesn't have any substance, because that is a lie. Again, I consider that a direct personal attack on me, and I want you to point out where I've questioned anyone's intelligence for their choice to support Hillary Clinton!

[QUOTE="Got Disney";23327789]You are all talking about how we are bashing Obama in there but we left because all of you have been doing that to Hillary. So when we come in here we are not doing that anymore out of respect but you Obama supporters do not show the same respect to us and just have constant Hillary trashing..[/QUOTE]

Again, I will state that I have not seen this "bashing", other than saying that she has gone negative, which none of us view as being good for the party. Maybe you could point it out?

[QUOTE="Got Disney";23327789]This thread has changed so much and I don't care who has been coming in here for years....it has turned into a thread with a lot of disrespect for other posters opinions.[/QUOTE]

You're mistaking opinions for lies. If you have the opinion that Hillary would be the better president, then fine. If you have the opinion that she would make a better commander in chief, that's fine, too. But if you have the opinion that Barack Obama doesn't have any substance, then I'm sorry, but that's not an opinion, that's a falsehood, and I see no reason to "respect" it.

 

[eclectics]

Be as kind to the 'other' team as you can as long as the other team is supporting a Democrat.

Exactly. Let's save it for the Conservatives who apparently, according to some on the other thread, are never condescending and never think they know better than anyone else. Seems to me some over there can't see the forest because of those darn pesky trees.

 

[wvrevy]

[QUOTE="Got Disney";23328248]You are for both as I am but you are a Obama supporter through and through and have also made your feelings clear about how you fel about both....and much has been neg about Hillary but nothing like WV has....[/QUOTE]

Again, I expect you to back that up. I have NOT attacked HIllary Clinton, here, or anywhere else. I have posted a grand total of two things about her on this or your thread:

1) She went negative against another Democrat.
2) She's divisive as a candidate.

That's IT. Please stop posting this nonsense.

 

[Laugh O. Grams]

[QUOTE="Got Disney";23328189]Can you explain this thought...why can McCain DESTROY Hillary but McCain is in SERIOUS trouble against Obama....are you referring to vote wise?

I believe that Dems will vote for either candidates and for the Obama ones that do not come out and vote Dem they are not true Dem....and are telling me they only care about Obama and not the issues or the party.

We are voting to get a REP out and DEM in and I believe that Obama also wants his voters to vote for Hillary if she were to get the nod...and if he did not back her than what would that say about him

I am not afraid if she gets the nod that she would be beat. Just the numbers that have come out and voted in the Dem primaries shows me that the Dems mean business.

With all that said I will not concede till Hillary does.....

Just as you would not untill Obama did....[/QUOTE]


OK, first off, those words are not mine. They're what that right wing wack-job freeper who posted a plan to sabotage the Democratic primary by voting for the weaker of the two Democratic candidates is saying. In his opinion, Hillary is easier to beat than Obama, because Obama gets more Independent voters than Clinton would. Obviously, the Dems are going to be a force to be reckoned with. In no way think McCain would "destroy" Hillary. Quite the contrary, I personally think she'd have a good chance of beating him, just like I think Obama does.

The only reason I posted it was in response to DisneyDad's post. Righties have all kinds of plans to somehow sabotage the Dems chances come November. The one he spoke with thought they should vote Obama in the primaries because he would be easier to beat. The one I linked to thought Hill would be easier to beat. IMO, it's all nonsense.

 

[frndshpcptn]

Let me address this point by point:

You're mistaking opinions for lies. If you have the opinion that Hillary would be the better president, then fine. If you have the opinion that she would make a better commander in chief, that's fine, too. But if you have the opinion that Barack Obama doesn't have any substance, then I'm sorry, but that's not an opinion, that's a falsehood, and I see no reason to "respect" it.

That doesn't make any sense.

Of course you can have the opinion that Obama doesn't have any substance. It's an opinion. You may not agree with it, but it doesn't make the opinion a falsehood.

I read his website. I've listened to his speeches. I still am not sure what my opinion is regarding his substance - or at least what I perceive it to be.

 

[chris1gill]

[QUOTE="Got Disney";23328189]Can you explain this thought...why can McCain DESTROY Hillary but McCain is in SERIOUS trouble against Obama....are you referring to vote wise?

I believe that Dems will vote for either candidates and for the Obama ones that do not come out and vote Dem they are not true Dem....and are telling me they only care about Obama and not the issues or the party.

We are voting to get a REP out and DEM in and I believe that Obama also wants his voters to vote for Hillary if she were to get the nod...and if he did not back her than what would that say about him

I am not afraid if she gets the nod that she would be beat. Just the numbers that have come out and voted in the Dem primaries shows me that the Dems mean business.

With all that said I will not concede till Hillary does.....

Just as you would not untill Obama did....[/QUOTE]

I'm neither of the people you are talking to, but I think Barack has a better chance of beating McCain for two reasons. First, he draws Independant's that John McCain usually draws... secondarily, it is no secret that Hillary draw's ire from the far right. This is, according to the Republican lovefest that went on last weekend, enough to draw out all those people who might forego voting for McCain.... Obama brings them out for the Democrats, Clinton brings them out for the Republican's.

I think this is true, my Husband is one who will vote first for Obama and then if not Obama, he might actually go for McCain, he says he will, I tend to believe he might. It all goes back to the negative rating the Clinton's have with some people... I'm not saying it is right or it is wrong, but that is how some people can be drawn to Obama, but go over to the other side if the ticket is not Obama....

 

[eclectics]

Obama brings them out for the Democrats, Clinton brings them out for the Republican's.

That's the consensus most of the polls and the pundits have been saying for quite a while now.

 

[wvrevy]

That doesn't make any sense.

Of course you can have the opinion that Obama doesn't have any substance. It's an opinion. You may not agree with it, but it doesn't make the opinion a falsehood.

I read his website. I've listened to his speeches. I still am not sure what my opinion is regarding his substance - or at least what I perceive it to be.

The first two examples I gave - thinking she'd be the better president and better commander in chief - are opinions. They can't really be proved or disproved without putting them both into the office and seeing who did the better job. However, saying that Obama doesn't have any substance is something that can be easily disproved, just by reading his website. There is a ton of material there that, while you may disagree with its intentions, completely disproves the notion that he "doesn't have any plans".

It's kinda like saying that I have the opinion that 2+2=5. That's not an opinion...it's just a false statement.

 

["Got Disney"]

Wvery give me a break...I did not say a word about Obama untill that first day when I started posting about Obama because of all the stuff against hillary. Also the stuff I sterted posting about Hillary was due to all the posting for Obama and against Hillary.

You were not debating about both candidates you were bashing one and clapping for the other. It's not that you were doing it it was the way you were doing it...

It seems to me that all was going fine till all that happened. We were discussing both the candidates and stating how lucky we felt about them. Wvery you are the one that started all the neg. digs at Hillary and felt that it was all okay to do so becuase after all this is a Liberal thread.

I cant see why we just cant discuss the positives about what is going on in this election along with the neg without the bashing of both parties....and the bashing did not start till the love of Obama and the tolta dilike of Hillary started to show it's ugly face.

And Wvery this is rude when you put it(this smilie) after an insult to another poster or about there comments, it for sure is not menst as a nice smile....

 

[Laugh O. Grams]

This is probably as good a time as any to call a moratorium on all of the Hillary/Obama back and forth. We all have our opinions and we're all passionate about them, but this threads going to get shut down if we keep up all of this bickering. Enough already...

 

[eclectics]

This is probably as good a time as any to call a moratorium on all of the Hillary/Obama back and forth. We all have our opinions and we're all passionate about them, but this threads going to get shut down if we keep up all of this bickering. Enough already...

Add my voice to that sentiment. Enough already.

 

[chris1gill]

The first two examples I gave - thinking she'd be the better president and better commander in chief - are opinions. They can't really be proved or disproved without putting them both into the office and seeing who did the better job. However, saying that Obama doesn't have any substance is something that can be easily disproved, just by reading his website. There is a ton of material there that, while you may disagree with its intentions, completely disproves the notion that he "doesn't have any plans".

It's kinda like saying that I have the opinion that 2+2=5. That's not an opinion...it's just a false statement.

There is a 40 page economic stimulus plan that I think can be downloaded if I'm not mistaken... that is just the economic stimulus plan.... For anyone looking for further information regarding substance.....

Any further information for those thinking he lacks for substance, it's worth noting one more time

Obama was rated #1 in environmental policy by the League of Conservation Voters
http://presidentialprofiles2008.org/

Obama was right about Pakistan, back when Hillary was calling him "naive"
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/11/06/navarrette/?iref=mpstoryview

Washington Post gave Obama's economic plan an A- and gave Hillary's a C.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy.../01/22/AR2008012202614.html?hpid=opinionsbox1


Wall Street Journal preferred Obama's healthcare plan over Hillary Clinton's
http://online.wsj.com/public/article_print/SB120234937353949449.html

Judge Obama by his legislative achievments, which are quite impressive, according to the Washington Post
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/03/AR2008010303303.html

 

[DISUNC]

I'm neither of the people you are talking to, but I think Barack has a better chance of beating McCain for two reasons. First, he draws Independant's that John McCain usually draws... secondarily, it is no secret that Hillary draw's ire from the far right. This is, according to the Republican lovefest that went on last weekend, enough to draw out all those people who might forego voting for McCain.... Obama brings them out for the Democrats, Clinton brings them out for the Republican's.

Here is a article that states the same as you do.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23258261/

One question here....Does anyone know when did they start allowing Independents to vote in Primaries?????

 

[Missy1961]

This is probably as good a time as any to call a moratorium on all of the Hillary/Obama back and forth. We all have our opinions and we're all passionate about them, but this threads going to get shut down if we keep up all of this bickering. Enough already...

Excellent point. Let's move on.

 

[chris1gill]

This is probably as good a time as any to call a moratorium on all of the Hillary/Obama back and forth. We all have our opinions and we're all passionate about them, but this threads going to get shut down if we keep up all of this bickering. Enough already...

I'll go for that Just don't ask me if he has substance, because I'll point out that he actually does

 

[MassJester]

Excellent point. Let's move on.

Yep, pretty non productive.

 

[LuvDuke]

Add my voice to that sentiment. Enough already.

Let's make it a threesome. Ahhhh, nevermind.

Honestly, I'm about ready to hit the ignore button in my head.

 

[DISUNC]

Wall Street Journal preferred Obama's healthcare plan over Hillary Clinton's
http://online.wsj.com/public/article_print/SB120234937353949449.html

WSJ would like Obamas NHC over Hillary's!!! WSJ is verrrrrrrrrrrry Conservative!

I'll read up all the articles later.....Lonnnnnnnnnnnng ...hopefully slow night at work ahead of me!

 

[wvrevy]

[QUOTE="Got Disney";23328671]Wvery give me a break...I did not say a word about Obama untill that first day when I started posting about Obama because of all the stuff against hillary. Also the stuff I sterted posting about Hillary was due to all the posting for Obama and against Hillary.

You were not debating about both candidates you were bashing one and clapping for the other. It's not that you were doing it it was the way you were doing it...

It seems to me that all was going fine till all that happened. We were discussing both the candidates and stating how lucky we felt about them. Wvery you are the one that started all the neg. digs at Hillary and felt that it was all okay to do so becuase after all this is a Liberal thread.

I cant see why we just cant discuss the positives about what is going on in this election along with the neg without the bashing of both parties....and the bashing did not start till the love of Obama and the tolta dilike of Hillary started to show it's ugly face.

And Wvery this is rude when you put it after an insult to another poster or about there comments....[/QUOTE]

I don't know what that last comment meant, but again, I'll ask you to either prove what you're saying, or take it back. The fact is that we started to get into a discussion about Hillary's electability, and you got angry when I pointed out that she was very divisive in this country and that there was a large percentage of the population that would come out to vote against her. Go back and read through the thread. It's there to see.

And again, stop attributing to me things that you're only reading in your mind. I have not "bashed" Hillary for a reason. This nomination wasn't over until last night - and yes, I do believe it's over - and I did not want to say anything against her that would be thrown back in my face - or used by the opposition - during the general election. So like I said, either prove your point by posting a link to some of my "bashing" - it shouldn't be hard, considering you keep on like I've been doing it on an hourly basis - or stop lying about it.

 

[DISUNC]

Excellent point. Let's move on.

That all the Conservs have to read!