The Liberal Thread #2 - No Debate Please

[Duckfan-in-Chicago]

I know I don't post on here

Please take a moment to remember people like my handsome husband who was there 5 years ago and still there about to "celebrate" his 1000th day in Iraq. I do appreciate it as I know most of the public doesn't remember or care. Thank you.

I don't post here either, but as for the rest, don't believe it.

I think about our troops over there almost daily. What I don't do is take the time to thank them and their family members as much as I should for their sacrifices they make 24/7.

You seem like such a strong woman and just a guess but because of your activity on this message board while everyone wants every soilder to come home safely, there might just be a few (thousands?) extra prayers headed your husbands way to keep him safe.

 

[MassJester]

Let me lay it out for you. It is precisely because there isn't a helluva lot of policy differences that Clinton has had to make up a resume, pad the she one she does have, and the throw the "kitchen sink/toilet bowl" at Obama.

And I do not appreciate having my Democratic credentials questioned because I happened to think Ferraro's comments were racist and Clinton's reaction came a bit too lat as if she were waiting for the poll data.

What is truly disturbing to me is watching so many Democrats willing to look the other way at Clinton's behavior because "she's a Democrat". I've heard this crap from countless Republicans who now wonder what the hell happened to their party. Here's a little clue: those Republicans now bemoaning the death of their party were the same ones who rewarded, with their vote, Daddy Bush for Lee Atwater's antics, Sonny Bush's Karl Rove antics, and the hatemongering that came from the religious right.

Too many Democrats are now sounding exactly like Republicans when they question "who's really a Democrat". I'm going to borrow a line from Howard Dean: I'm from the Democratic wing of the Democratic party. I'm not Republican-lite or blinded by a candidate. Hillary Clinton, through her own actions, lost my vote and the vote of countless Democrats. She's got the campaign she wanted. Now she can live with the fallout.

I'm sorry you feel that way.

 

[lovemygoofy]

I don't post here either, but as for the rest, don't believe it.

I think about our troops over there almost daily. What I don't do is take the time to thank them and their family members as much as I should for their sacrifices they make 24/7.

You seem like such a strong woman and just a guess but because of your activity on this message board while everyone wants every soilder to come home safely, there might just be a few (thousands?) extra prayers headed your husbands way to keep him safe.

Thank you very much. I know my husband won't be coming home soon but I just want him to be safe. Well and to have some decent morale. It's been a pretty crappy month for him and you can only have so many crappy months before it just takes it's toll. So yes I'll take all the prayers for him I can get. Thank you

 

[lilyv]

Thank you very much. I know my husband won't be coming home soon but I just want him to be safe. Well and to have some decent morale. It's been a pretty crappy month for him and you can only have so many crappy months before it just takes it's toll. So yes I'll take all the prayers for him I can get. Thank you

Tina, hugs to you. Just keep remembering how wonderful the reunions are.
I know you'll be so glad when he's finally home.

 

[LuvDuke]

I'm sorry you feel that way.

Quite honestly, I think Clinton has lost the SD's so I think not voting for Clinton will be easy as she won't be on the ballot. But, I do wish my fellow Democrats take a good long look at what happened to the GOP and how they got to such a sorry state where Limbaugh is considered a spokeman. The GOP got to where it is by having millions of rank & file look the other way when it came to things they considered objectionable. When you reward people for bad behavior, the behavior gets worse. And if you do enough rewarding, you end up losing yourself and your principles.

It is a crying shame to this lifelong Democrat to think of the campaign we lost if the choices had been Obama and Edwards or Biden or Dodd. Can you imagine John Edwards running the campaign Hillary Clinton has run? I can't.

I didn't start out disliking Hillary Clinton. Before the start of this primary, I would've bet dollars to donuts she would've been president. Up until a few weeks ago, I never questioned whether or not I would vote for the Democratic candidate whoever they were. I've said so here.

Then came Clinton's plagiarism charge and all I could of was "how petty for a CIC". My decision not to vote for Clinton started with plagiarism and ended with racism. That sealed the deal. That was the last straw.

I will not vote for Hillary Clinton should she be the nominee because I will not reward the "Karl Rove" wing of the Democratic party. Enough is enough.

 

[robinb]

I know I don't post on here but I would just like to remind ya'll to take a moment next week March 19-20 and take a moment to remember that 5 years ago the war in Iraq started. Five years, almost 4000 soldiers dead, umpteen dollars, and lots of lives destroyed.

Please take a moment to remember people like my handsome husband who was there 5 years ago and still there about to "celebrate" his 1000th day in Iraq. I do appreciate it as I know most of the public doesn't remember or care. Thank you.

Tina ... thank you. My father was in the Navy and had two tours in Vietnam when I was a young child. I understand at a gut level what you and the other military families go though every day. I lived it.

I am reminded of a bumper sticker that I have seen here in Madison:

{{hugs}} to you and {{good thoughts}} out to the men and women in Iraq.

 

[MassJester]

I didn't start out disliking Hillary Clinton. Before the start of this primary, I would've bet dollars to donuts she would've been president. Up until a few weeks ago, I never questioned whether or not I would vote for the Democratic candidate whoever they were. I've said so here.

Then came Clinton's plagiarism charge and all I could of was "how petty for a CIC". My decision not to vote for Clinton started with plagiarism and ended with racism. That sealed the deal. That was the last straw.

I will not vote for Hillary Clinton should she be the nominee because I will not reward the "Karl Rove" wing of the Democratic party. Enough is enough.

I understand what you are saying. I voted for Obama in the primary, and hope to again in the general election.

I don't think either campaign has been entirely clean, and it is my perception that HC hast struck lower the BO -- but I recognize that my perception might be skewed.

Obama said that he did not find the remark racist--stupid, but not racist. I will not second guess him on this.

I do know that ending the war, protecting the supreme court, and stopping Bush's gifts to the rich are much more important to me than my thoughts about good campaigning, and so although I would rather have Obama, I can not tollerate McCain.

 

[chris1gill]

Wow, the polling must really be in the toilet if Clinton apologized. What is she going to do now that the "experience" angle made her a laughingstock and the "kitchen sink" cost her support".

Geez, what's left? The high road? Gooood luck.

Look where she WAS when she made these apologies, in front of a group of more than 200 black community newspapers across the country.... OF COURSE she was going to apologize... I wouldn't trust that apology, but will watch how she conducts herself and her campaign in the coming days. That will be the true test of whether she is sorry, or whether she was just pandering.

 

[LuvDuke]

I understand what you are saying. I voted for Obama in the primary, and hope to again in the general election.

I don't think either campaign has been entirely clean, and it is my perception that HC hast struck lower the BO -- but I recognize that my perception might be skewed.

Obama said that he did not find the remark racist--stupid, but not racist. I will not second guess him on this.

I do know that ending the war, protecting the supreme court, and stopping Bush's gifts to the rich are much more important to me than my thoughts about good campaigning, and so although I would rather have Obama, I can not tollerate McCain.

I'm not so sure you're going to get the end of the war with Hillary Clinton. I don't hold her "authorization to use force" vote against her. That was the times, emotions were running high, and people went on the info that was given to them.

However, after how many years of that mistaken vote, Hillary makes the same mistake and starts this country on the same path with the Kyle-Lieberman amendment declaring Iran's Revolutionary Guard a terrorist group. They may very well be, but good God, didn't she learn a damned thing about Bush and his authorizations? That's got to make anybody uneasy.

 

[LuvDuke]

Look where she WAS when she made these apologies, in front of a group of more than 200 black community newspapers across the country.... OF COURSE she was going to apologize... I wouldn't trust that apology, but will watch how she conducts herself and her campaign in the coming days. That will be the true test of whether she is sorry, or whether she was just pandering.

I'd like someone to kindly explain to me why this had to go on for several days and various rationalizations including blaming Obama. Huh? I'd like to know exactly what there was to think about when it came to Ferraro's remarks? If that wasn't a no-brainer, what the hell is?

It would've taken me all of 30 seconds to make the phone call to Ferraro saying "thanks, but no thanks. Goodbye". Not several days and Ferraro is still claiming victimhood.

Hillary Clinton had a chance to stand up for something. She didn't. That's the kind of president she'll be too.

 

[crazyforgoofy]

I know I don't post on here but I would just like to remind ya'll to take a moment next week March 19-20 and take a moment to remember that 5 years ago the war in Iraq started. Five years, almost 4000 soldiers dead, umpteen dollars, and lots of lives destroyed.

Please take a moment to remember people like my handsome husband who was there 5 years ago and still there about to "celebrate" his 1000th day in Iraq. I do appreciate it as I know most of the public doesn't remember or care. Thank you.

Tina, I will remember. I will stand with others in a visible place in our 'county seat' and hold my sign and speak my mind. I will send more e-mails and letters to local papers and to my U.S. representative and Senators. I will also start a thread reminding others and asking them to remember and to speak out.

 

[robinb]

Hi everyone! I'm cross posting this to the Liberal, Obama and Clinton threads. I was wondering about how we all feel about a Unity or Dream ticket so I started a PUBLIC poll here: http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1754222

 

[crcormier]

Did y'all see this letter from Congressman Peter DeFazio? He sent it to both campaigns and released it to the media as well.

Dear Senator Clinton and Senator Obama:

I write today as a concerned member of the Democratic Party and an uncommitted super delegate.

I appreciated the manner in which you both conducted your campaigns during the early primary process. It was a manner that respected the other and tried to highlight policy differences without resorting to destructive smear campaigns.

In the lead up to the March 4th primaries, the tone of both campaigns shifted and the civility that I had appreciated disappeared. The long term goal of beating the Republican nominee took a back seat to the short term goal of proving one's viability by tearing down the other Democratic candidate. We lost sight of the general election, we lost sight of the true opponent and if we continue to be shortsighted, I fear we will lose in November.

The heated rhetoric between both campaigns has continued to intensify as we head into the Pennsylvania primary. While you trade barbs, McCain is uniting the Republican Party around his thinly disguised right wing agenda. In the next six weeks, McCain can sit back, amass his war chest, concentrate his base and delight as you deconstruct each other.

I propose that you not allow him that luxury. You both claim to be better suited than the other to take on the so-called Straight-Talk Express, so prove it. Run the next six weeks of your campaign against McCain, not against the other Democrat. Go after McCain for his policy positions, not the other Democrat for theirs. Allow the Democratic voters to believe in a campaign that can provide a new direction for this country and stop McCain from continuing the failed policies of the Bush Administration. In the end, it is the candidate who can take the fight to McCain and win that deserves my support and, most importantly, the support of the Democratic Party.

Both of your campaigns have been built on the fundamental idea that if elected, you will bring about change. Let's change the way we are doing business in this primary election. In the last few months, you have been running for the Democratic nomination. In the next six weeks, I urge you start running for President.

Sincerely,

PETER A. DEFAZIO
Member of Congress

 

[NewJersey]

Thanks for posting the letter Craig. Glad to see an uncommitted delegate come out and explain how childish the two campaigns have become with their attacks.

 

[Mugg Mann]

I know I don't post on here but I would just like to remind ya'll to take a moment next week March 19-20 and take a moment to remember that 5 years ago the war in Iraq started. Five years, almost 4000 soldiers dead, umpteen dollars, and lots of lives destroyed.

Please take a moment to remember people like my handsome husband who was there 5 years ago and still there about to "celebrate" his 1000th day in Iraq. I do appreciate it as I know most of the public doesn't remember or care. Thank you.

Thank you very much. I know my husband won't be coming home soon but I just want him to be safe. Well and to have some decent morale. It's been a pretty crappy month for him and you can only have so many crappy months before it just takes it's toll. So yes I'll take all the prayers for him I can get. Thank you

Tina-

As far as I'm concerned, you are welcomed here any time you want. We may not agree 100% of the time, but I have always found you to be one of the most thoughtful and heartfelt posters anywhere on the DIS with a viewpoint that is unique and almost always makes me think. One can't ask for more in the political threads.

Please rest assured that many of us (especially on this thread) have never or ever will forget. Just look at my siggy below!

May your husband, along with all of his fellow troops, have a safe and speedy path home, and may the two of you disappear for a month or two from the DIS once he does. The next time you talk to him, thank him for us.

 

[Chloe'sMom]

Yeah -- they want me to pay for them. I just don't get it.

From the Conservative Thread -

I thought I would respond here as it will be negative and I don't want people to get all bent out of shape over there.

I don't expect anyone to PAY for me. There have been plenty of years DH and I made over the magical $150K mark - we didn't last year becuase well.......mortgage business sucks.

I pay my taxes - I pay the same in taxes as many of them on the conservative board claim to pay.

Therefore I find the idea that they think every liberal wants them to pay their taxes ridiculous. Plenty of liberals make a lot of money - not all liberals are poor, out of work, lazy, or looking at something for nothing.

I work, I made a decent living and I pay my taxes.

I think the tax "prebates" are a bad idea as they will do little to nothing to stimulate the economy. If I could send it back I will.

~Amanda

 

[Laura]

The conservatives I know don't have a lot of money, generally. It seems like they just want to have the government give them their taxes back so they can have more money to spend. And not on charities.

 

[Hound 109]

Did y'all see this letter from Congressman Peter DeFazio? He sent it to both campaigns and released it to the media as well.

I agree with DeFazio. And I'm glad that HC in the past few days has:

- Accepted the resignation of Ferraro w/o humiliating her. (Since she was an historic figure that worked on issues for all Democrats for 20+ years).
- Apologized for Bill's insensitive comments comparing BOs South Carolina win to Jesse Jackson's.
- Remained silent regarding BOs affiliation with his church & his pastor & "moral compass" for 20 years. (the man who officiated his wedding).

ABC's recent (2 minute) report:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video_log/2008/03/brian_ross_reports_on_obamas_c.html

 

[smartestnumber5]

Therefore I find the idea that they think every liberal wants them to pay their taxes ridiculous. Plenty of liberals make a lot of money - not all liberals are poor, out of work, lazy, or looking at something for nothing.

Yeah I think there is great diversity in the income levels of liberals and conservatives.

My dad has worked in the same factory for the past 18 years or so. He makes between 40-50,000 a year depending on the amount of overtime, and the pay scales for the factory workers are determined by seniority. So pretty much none of the other workers are making more than $5000 more a year than he is (most are younger/have less seniority so they are making considerably less). Even putting that income together with the income of their spouse (mostly wives who have similar educational backgrounds--no college, but perhaps some other training), nobody is getting close to $150,000 a year. Yet my dad is one of the only liberals in the place.

On the other hand, I'm a grad student at a pretty well-off university. Faculty in my department are very well compensated (probably 1/2 the department is making $110,000 or more) and for the most part they have spouses who work in similarly prestigious and high paying careers. I'd guess that there isn't a married/partnered faculty member in the dept who isn't making at least $150,000. And yet, out of like 25 people, 24 of them are seriously liberal.

Some of the stuff I see on this board makes me crazy. I started a thread the other day about how I keep hearing about how anyone who isn't middle class doesn't have to pay taxes. There was a poster on one thread who thought that the EITC extended to an income level of $35,000 for a single individual! Well of course I can understand people being ticket off if they think single individuals who make $35,000 are getting free money and paying no tax! But they sure as heck are not. The EITC cap for an individual is like $12,000. GF had an income of $2400 two years ago and she got an EITC of $210. She paid twice that much in FICA and state taxes.

 

[chris1gill]

The conservatives I know don't have a lot of money, generally. It seems like they just want to have the government give them their taxes back so they can have more money to spend. And not on charities.

That's been my experience with conservatives, they have far less than the liberal's I know.... although I know one liberal who is a closet conservative, and a serious one at that... I often wonder what goes through her head at the stuff she says My Husband says it's easier for her to keep her money to pay her nail stylist, or buy her new BMW than to actually worry about somebody else for a change... that about sum's it up. Maybe she's not liberal or conservative, just selfish and self absorbed.... Oh I went off track on this...