The large number of new Aulani resale contracts??

[hhisc16]

over 60 contracts listed in one day?!?

 

[ocdb8r1]

With the comments made at the recent DVC condo association meeting, I imagine these are people who primarily rent for profit exiting while they can.

Is there a good thread on here that sums up the meetings? I have seen a few specifics here and there (like about monthly payments changing)....but hadn't seen anything about rental comments.

Some of them are just refreshed listings with reduced prices. Some are new. Either way… what is going on?!!

Yeah, I stopped tracking closely, but when this first started we were looking at 40-50 contracts...with some added over that initial week. Regardless I don't think it ever reached the over 80 contracts that seemed to drop overnight (and it appeared some of those initial listings had sold). I think we need to keep in mind, many of the sites that aggregate postings will show a contract as "new" or just listed if anything in the listing is updated. So it could be many of these were simply updated in some way (perhaps adjusted to reflect the updated dues?). However, a good chunk of these are clearly new.

Very strange.

 

[lowlight]

Is there a good thread on here that sums up the meetings? I have seen a few specifics here and there (like about monthly payments changing)....but hadn't seen anything about rental comments.

https://www.disboards.com/threads/a...rvation-numbered.3958702/page-3#post-65879914

In that thread, members attended the meeting and heard a board member mention that a team was being hired and assembled to target the rental issue.

 

[Sandisw]

Is there a good thread on here that sums up the meetings? I have seen a few specifics here and there (like about monthly payments changing)....but hadn't seen anything about rental comments.


Yeah, I stopped tracking closely, but when this first started we were looking at 40-50 contracts...with some added over that initial week. Regardless I don't think it ever reached the over 80 contracts that seemed to drop overnight (and it appeared some of those initial listings had sold). I think we need to keep in mind, many of the sites that aggregate postings will show a contract as "new" or just listed if anything in the listing is updated. So it could be many of these were simply updated in some way (perhaps adjusted to reflect the updated dues?). However, a good chunk of these are clearly new.

Very strange.

Just what some of us reported….the concern was brought up at several meetings and DVC said they have expanded the team to ensure that the rules are followed in terms of what is and is not allowed…paraphrasing that.

Basically, they are paying more attention to it all but did reaffirm at the two I was at that owners renting is an aspect of the program, but not renting commercially is not.

However, they stated that while they do monitor and take action, they want to be sure they are holding those high point owners to the appropriate standard,

Some examples were given on why an owner might rent.,,,like to help offset dues, can’t go one year, etc..

The word frequent was also used when discussing what they monitor. So it’s very possible these contracts are from someone who rents frequently.

 

[RoseGold]

This has got to be institutional owners getting spooked they won't be able to rent, which is the whole point. Individual owners wouldn't be this organized or move this fast. Also why the contracts are all stripped.

 

[lilsonicfan]

Yesterday the aggregator showed about 178-186 Aulani listings, today it’s 182-190. I think it’s just the same broker re-listing all the same tired, stripped contracts they listed in the first Aulani dump.

 

[VGCgroupie]

Woke up to emails of a bunch Aulani alerts. I went to one aggregator and it had one broker having 464 Aulani listed but when I went to their site there were only 45. Whew! So I followed up and checked all brokers and it’s about the same amount of Aulani contracts that there has been. So some are new replacing sold ones, some are refreshed. Either way the market for Aulani hasn’t reduced any

 

[ocdb8r1]

Just what some of us reported….the concern was brought up at several meetings and DVC said they have expanded the team to ensure that the rules are followed in terms of what is and is not allowed…paraphrasing that.

Basically, they are paying more attention to it all but did reaffirm at the two I was at that owners renting is an aspect of the program, but not renting commercially is not.

However, they stated that while they do monitor and take action, they want to be sure they are holding those high point owners to the appropriate standard,

Some examples were given on why an owner might rent.,,,like to help offset dues, can’t go one year, etc..

The word frequent was also used when discussing what they monitor. So it’s very possible these contracts are from someone who rents frequently.

This has got to be institutional owners getting spooked they won't be able to rent, which is the whole point. Individual owners wouldn't be this organized or move this fast. Also why the contracts are all stripped.

I just read the DVCnews.com article about the statements at the meetings and this leans me in the direction of believing DVC management have put some "frequent" (aka "commercial) renters on notice that they will be more closely scrutinizing rental patterns and cancelling reservations. My pure speculation is some single person or group owned all these Aulani contracts in some form (whether it be split up into different trusts/LLCs...etc) and DVC has let them know that they'll look more closely than just the number of reservations per membership number per year.

 

[VGCgroupie]

I just read the DVCnews.com article about the statements at the meetings and this leans me in the direction of believing DVC management have put some "frequent" (aka "commercial) renters on notice that they will be more closely scrutinizing rental patterns and cancelling reservations. My pure speculation is some single person or group owned all these Aulani contracts in some form (whether it be split up into different trusts/LLCs...etc) and DVC has let them know that they'll look more closely than just the number of reservations per membership number per year.

I really hope this is the case even if hurts the Aulani market in interim.

 

[disneylandtour]

I just read the DVCnews.com article about the statements at the meetings and this leans me in the direction of believing DVC management have put some "frequent" (aka "commercial) renters on notice that they will be more closely scrutinizing rental patterns and cancelling reservations. My pure speculation is some single person or group owned all these Aulani contracts in some form (whether it be split up into different trusts/LLCs...etc) and DVC has let them know that they'll look more closely than just the number of reservations per membership number per year.

I'm just going to put the whole thing here so that we have actual language to refer to at some future date about commercial renting vs non-commercial renting...


The first is commercial rental activity by owners who seemingly own or control thousands of points for the sole purpose of profiting off of them. Shannon Sakaske, Vice President, Member Experiences & Club Management described it this way:

"There’s two types of renting that members do. One that you alluded to, which is ‘I’m not going to use my points this year. They’re going to expire and I want to get some money to offset my dues.’ That’s allowed within our rules. We allow members the flexibility to rent.
"The other category is someone who is doing it commercially. They own a lot of points and it’s a frequent occurrence. We are actively figuring out ways to go after that, and stop that to the best of our ability. Hopefully this is not a conversation we will be having in future years. We’re going to go after that and try to remedy it as best we can."

Senior Vice President and General Manager Bill Diercksen confirmed that Disney Vacation Club has "added resources to our core team at DVC in order to pursue this and make sure that it is fair" to everyday members. According to Yvonne Chang, Executive Director, Business Operations "[w]e’ve got a whole team of folks focused on this. Hopefully by next year when we have this conversation, we will see some improvement.”

In a later session Sakaske was even more direct, saying that while they have no issues with members occasionally renting points, "[y]ou just can’t do it commercially. That is against our rules. We are actively pursuing plans to go after those people and stop that behavior."

All of the board members agreed that commercial rental activity is just a small portion of all member reservations. However, commercial renters tend to be among the most knowledgable owners, attempting to maximize their own revenue stream by targeting resorts, rooms and dates which will yield the greatest returns.

 

[disneylandtour]

With that definition (thousands of points) and those highlights (selecting key categories--such as AK Value and Boardwalk Standard), it's almost like some members on the DVC board were reading threads here on this forum...hmmm?

 

[Disfamwa]

Agreed. The delayed close is primarily what causes many of us to wonder what the reasoning is. They don’t get their capital back until after the close. So listing this early is interesting… unless the seller knows something the buyer (and us) doesn’t.

If you got a legal warning from Disney about your commercial renting operation or your stripping and flipping operation, listing the contracts for sale might be an attempt at showing a good faith effort to end your operations.

 

[disneylandtour]

If you got a legal warning from Disney about your commercial renting operation or your stripping and flipping operation, listing the contracts for sale might be an attempt at showing a good faith effort to end your operations.

This is exactly what I think is going on.

 

[ChipTheRescueRanger]

I'm just going to put the whole thing here so that we have actual language to refer to at some future date about commercial renting vs non-commercial renting...


The first is commercial rental activity by owners who seemingly own or control thousands of points for the sole purpose of profiting off of them. Shannon Sakaske, Vice President, Member Experiences & Club Management described it this way:

"There’s two types of renting that members do. One that you alluded to, which is ‘I’m not going to use my points this year. They’re going to expire and I want to get some money to offset my dues.’ That’s allowed within our rules. We allow members the flexibility to rent.
"The other category is someone who is doing it commercially. They own a lot of points and it’s a frequent occurrence. We are actively figuring out ways to go after that, and stop that to the best of our ability. Hopefully this is not a conversation we will be having in future years. We’re going to go after that and try to remedy it as best we can."

Senior Vice President and General Manager Bill Diercksen confirmed that Disney Vacation Club has "added resources to our core team at DVC in order to pursue this and make sure that it is fair" to everyday members. According to Yvonne Chang, Executive Director, Business Operations "[w]e’ve got a whole team of folks focused on this. Hopefully by next year when we have this conversation, we will see some improvement.”

In a later session Sakaske was even more direct, saying that while they have no issues with members occasionally renting points, "[y]ou just can’t do it commercially. That is against our rules. We are actively pursuing plans to go after those people and stop that behavior."

All of the board members agreed that commercial rental activity is just a small portion of all member reservations. However, commercial renters tend to be among the most knowledgable owners, attempting to maximize their own revenue stream by targeting resorts, rooms and dates which will yield the greatest returns.

This cant be real quotes from Disney its far to sensible !

 

[JackosinDIS]

This is exactly what I think is going on.

But why so heavily concentrated on AUL? You would think if they were focusing on the hard-to-get confirmed reservations it would be other resorts. Or do the commercial renters focus on cheap SAP at the 7 month mark?

 

[disneylandtour]

This cant be real quotes from Disney its far to sensible !

Here, I'll translate: "What we're really concerned about is that commercial DVC renting is cutting into Disney's cash hotel business, particularly at Disney World, especially as we now have a lot of empty rooms. If we squash commercial renters, a chunk of those future guests will come back and book direct from Disney. But we'd also like to spin this so it looks like we're really concerned with the average DVC owner's experience."

 

[VGCgroupie]

But why so heavily concentrated on AUL? You would think if they were focusing on the hard-to-get confirmed reservations it would be other resorts. Or do the commercial renters focus on cheap SAP at the 7 month mark?

I’ve never really looked into rental stats but maybe Aulani rents easy? Combined with hotel rooms point charts I think the difference of cash vs renting points is pretty high.

I was in a 1 bed and a studio split over 5 days and that reservation would’ve been 7k cash, for that particular stay the savings using points was significantly more than the same days at Boardwalk.

 

[VGCgroupie]

Here, I'll translate: "What we're really concerned about is that commercial DVC renting is cutting into Disney's cash hotel business, particularly at Disney World, especially as we now have a lot of empty rooms. If we squash commercial renters, a chunk of those future guests will come back and book direct from Disney. But we'd also like to spin this so it looks like we're really concerned with the average DVC owner's experience."

However they want to get there I will take it.

 

[Disfamwa]

But why so heavily concentrated on AUL? You would think if they were focusing on the hard-to-get confirmed reservations it would be other resorts. Or do the commercial renters focus on cheap SAP at the 7 month mark?

Well I think some of the individual commercial renters that are big in the Facebook groups definitely stalk for select openings to beat out waitlists (when you are renting for confirmed reservations any openings for select low point room types are worth a shot to grab and attempt to rent out). I also wouldn’t be surprised if sometimes they are booked with home point advantage, and then they take the risk of dropping the reservations and quickly grabbing them with SAP at 7 months—it’s not a reservation they absolutely need for a personal trip, so it’s probably worth the gamble (I saw one owner say he has an 80% success rate doing this). Now I’m not sure very large corporate renters would do stuff like this, but the smaller and very savvy individual commercial renters probably do.

 

[disneylandtour]

But why so heavily concentrated on AUL? You would think if they were focusing on the hard-to-get confirmed reservations it would be other resorts. Or do the commercial renters focus on cheap SAP at the 7 month mark?

I'm confused by this as well. But I'm guessing that deep commercial renters either know or once believed that AUL was the most rentable because it spoke (or once spoke) to a more international audience (Asia and Australia, in particular). Also, FWIW, David's and others tends to rent points at Aulani at a premium above most DVCs. So maybe commercial renters simply got more bang for their buck with Aulani.