The Intersection of FIRE and Disney

Money (to me) isn't actually to buy things, it's to acquire time, safety, and sometimes power. That's the idea with FIRE is that you leverage money to buy you free time; time is what we actually run out of, and is much more precious than money as literal money. Saving money is then an attempt to gain what time we can.

I absolutely love this and you are so right. We hear so often that time is money, but really time is precious and money in many cases allows more time to be spent in a meaningful way.
 
Saw an interesting one-off line in a comment trail on r/financialindependence:
  • Most people don't want to HAVE (or SAVE) money, they want to SPEND money.
This was from a post talking about how difficult it is to explain FIRE, or how you've achieved your results to somebody who is NOT in a FIRE mindset. I often wonder if there is something innately bestowed on us by the creator that causes us to be savers or spenders. Or perhaps it's something ingrained in us due to our upbringing or events in our formative years. Of course, it's probably a combination of these things, our personality traits we're born with combined with what we learn and see growing up.

That said, I'm interested among our crew here, where do you feel you naturally rank on the scale of SAVER vs. SPENDER.

1....2....3....4....5....6....7....8....9....10
SAVER..............BALANCED.............SPENDER


For me, I think that I'm naturally in the 2-3 range. Definitely skewed heavily towards being a saver. Been that way all my life, I remember as a child getting out all of my pennies and making sure they were shiny, clean, and counting them. 😂 😂 And now as we start to see the FIRE snowball roll down the hill uncontrolled, I feel like I am trying to transition to being balanced - and rewarding ourselves a bit, which is fun!

So what about you guys? Thoughts?
I remember when I graduated from college and started working. The first thing I did was open an IRA account. I have saved the maximum amount every year since then and that wasn’t always easy in the beginning. Before that I was always a saver, but I like to spend too! Fortunately I haven’t had a problem being able to do both. So I would put myself as a 5.
 
Saw an interesting one-off line in a comment trail on r/financialindependence:
  • Most people don't want to HAVE (or SAVE) money, they want to SPEND money.
This was from a post talking about how difficult it is to explain FIRE, or how you've achieved your results to somebody who is NOT in a FIRE mindset. I often wonder if there is something innately bestowed on us by the creator that causes us to be savers or spenders. Or perhaps it's something ingrained in us due to our upbringing or events in our formative years. Of course, it's probably a combination of these things, our personality traits we're born with combined with what we learn and see growing up.

That said, I'm interested among our crew here, where do you feel you naturally rank on the scale of SAVER vs. SPENDER.

1....2....3....4....5....6....7....8....9....10
SAVER..............BALANCED.............SPENDER


For me, I think that I'm naturally in the 2-3 range. Definitely skewed heavily towards being a saver. Been that way all my life, I remember as a child getting out all of my pennies and making sure they were shiny, clean, and counting them. 😂 😂 And now as we start to see the FIRE snowball roll down the hill uncontrolled, I feel like I am trying to transition to being balanced - and rewarding ourselves a bit, which is fun!

So what about you guys? Thoughts?

I’m definitely a 2. So is my partner. We are very careful with how we spend our money if only because we have realized that in the past we have chosen to spend money on things that ultimately don’t bring us prolonged or sustained happiness, which is most important to us.

While eating at an expensive restaurant or buying brand new clothes might be exciting and may be fun at the time, severely limiting those ways of spending in our life made us realize that choosing to save on something like dining out or buying the nicest, newest clothes didn’t make us less happy.

The easiest way for us to save was to figure out how our spending makes us truly happy (which happens to be traveling the world) and allow ourselves to be spenders in that part of our lives. Everything else in our life....it’s save all the way.

And even with all of the travel we do, our savings everywhere else has led us to have an 80% savings rate this past year. The additional time we will receive with an early retirement will be well worth delaying the instant happiness we might have received from spending all of our money on stuff that (let’s be honest) might be fun, but won’t make me personally happier. We have trained ourselves to become 2’s. I think before I was more of a 5.

This question regarding if are we inherently savers or spenders reminded me of this article:

https://www.moneycrashers.com/psychology-of-money-saving-spending-habits/
 


Okay. It has taken me weeks to get through this whole thread :surfweb:, and now I'm excited to participate! :wave:

I was wondering if I could get some thoughts on an issue I've been grappling with. I am late to the game in terms of making wise financial decisions, so at the age of 48 I don't own a home and still have $30k in student loan debt. I also have $300k in a 401(k) and $60k in savings. The one thing I have going for me (other than the fact that I have learned some hard lessons and believe I'm now on track) is that I will have a pension of about $4200 per month if I retire at age 65. (I love my job so the thought of working at it another 15 years or so doesn't bother me.) I am also maxing out my 401(k). I have not yet starting funding an IRA (Roth or otherwise).

I would like to have a paid-for house when I retire, but the problem is I don't know where I'll be living. I will definitely not be living where I currently live (CA). I have owned two homes in my life. One was a financially positive experience, and the second was an absolute financial disaster. So I still have PTSD from that experience, and am leery to buy something where I currently live (which I could afford because it's not one of the HCoL parts of CA) on the (possibly false) assumption that I'd be able to sell it without losing money when I retire.

One option is to buy something in my home state on the East Coast, where I would almost certainly be living at least part-time when I retire. The rental market has always been good in the area due to nearby universities and coastlines. And, my brother in law currently takes care of the rental units he and my sister own in the area where I would buy, so I believe I could hire him to look after mine. This option also appeals to me because it could allow me to indulge my wanderlust in retirement - I might be able to continue to rent the house for periods when I was away traveling or visiting friends/family.

The other option is to put all the extra savings (after maxing out the 401(k)) into an investment account, and as retirement approaches and I have a clearer idea of my post-retirement plans, start to move some of it into less volatile holding accounts and buy something outright at retirement.

I have previous experience as a landlord, but that was when I was in Boston and the property was in New York - not like owning/managing something from all the way across the country (but again, there are people in the home state I could rely on.)

Does anyone have any thoughts? Any important factors I left out? (I am a SINK and although I hope that changes at some point, I need to plan as though it would not.) If I went with option 1, I would make sure to only do it if I had a nice healthy emergency fund that could cover the mortgage and the CA rent for 3-6 months if disaster struck (like I lost both my job and my tenants at the same time.) Which likely means I wouldn't be in a position to buy until at least a year from now.

Thanks all!
 


I'm nowhere close to FIRE, but I love to read along as I retrain myself from a 7 toward a 2-3. It's tough, but worth it, even if you train yourself after 40.
The pandemic has helped to retrain me. My savings rate went from 10% to 60% from 2019 to 2020. It was truly eye-opening. I know it won't be 60% when things go back to "normal," but it's going to be a LOT better than 10%!
 
Okay. It has taken me weeks to get through this whole thread :surfweb:, and now I'm excited to participate! :wave:

I was wondering if I could get some thoughts on an issue I've been grappling with. I am late to the game in terms of making wise financial decisions, so at the age of 48 I don't own a home and still have $30k in student loan debt. I also have $300k in a 401(k) and $60k in savings. The one thing I have going for me (other than the fact that I have learned some hard lessons and believe I'm now on track) is that I will have a pension of about $4200 per month if I retire at age 65. (I love my job so the thought of working at it another 15 years or so doesn't bother me.) I am also maxing out my 401(k). I have not yet starting funding an IRA (Roth or otherwise).

I would like to have a paid-for house when I retire, but the problem is I don't know where I'll be living. I will definitely not be living where I currently live (CA). I have owned two homes in my life. One was a financially positive experience, and the second was an absolute financial disaster. So I still have PTSD from that experience, and am leery to buy something where I currently live (which I could afford because it's not one of the HCoL parts of CA) on the (possibly false) assumption that I'd be able to sell it without losing money when I retire.

One option is to buy something in my home state on the East Coast, where I would almost certainly be living at least part-time when I retire. The rental market has always been good in the area due to nearby universities and coastlines. And, my brother in law currently takes care of the rental units he and my sister own in the area where I would buy, so I believe I could hire him to look after mine. This option also appeals to me because it could allow me to indulge my wanderlust in retirement - I might be able to continue to rent the house for periods when I was away traveling or visiting friends/family.

The other option is to put all the extra savings (after maxing out the 401(k)) into an investment account, and as retirement approaches and I have a clearer idea of my post-retirement plans, start to move some of it into less volatile holding accounts and buy something outright at retirement.

I have previous experience as a landlord, but that was when I was in Boston and the property was in New York - not like owning/managing something from all the way across the country (but again, there are people in the home state I could rely on.)

Does anyone have any thoughts? Any important factors I left out? (I am a SINK and although I hope that changes at some point, I need to plan as though it would not.) If I went with option 1, I would make sure to only do it if I had a nice healthy emergency fund that could cover the mortgage and the CA rent for 3-6 months if disaster struck (like I lost both my job and my tenants at the same time.) Which likely means I wouldn't be in a position to buy until at least a year from now.

Thanks all!
I don't have any specific thoughts on your situation but just wanted to say welcome to the thread! Thanks for joining in and I wish you well on your FI journey since the RE part might not be part of your plan :D
 
Okay. It has taken me weeks to get through this whole thread :surfweb:, and now I'm excited to participate! :wave:

I was wondering if I could get some thoughts on an issue I've been grappling with. I am late to the game in terms of making wise financial decisions, so at the age of 48 I don't own a home and still have $30k in student loan debt. I also have $300k in a 401(k) and $60k in savings. The one thing I have going for me (other than the fact that I have learned some hard lessons and believe I'm now on track) is that I will have a pension of about $4200 per month if I retire at age 65. (I love my job so the thought of working at it another 15 years or so doesn't bother me.) I am also maxing out my 401(k). I have not yet starting funding an IRA (Roth or otherwise).

I would like to have a paid-for house when I retire, but the problem is I don't know where I'll be living. I will definitely not be living where I currently live (CA). I have owned two homes in my life. One was a financially positive experience, and the second was an absolute financial disaster. So I still have PTSD from that experience, and am leery to buy something where I currently live (which I could afford because it's not one of the HCoL parts of CA) on the (possibly false) assumption that I'd be able to sell it without losing money when I retire.

One option is to buy something in my home state on the East Coast, where I would almost certainly be living at least part-time when I retire. The rental market has always been good in the area due to nearby universities and coastlines. And, my brother in law currently takes care of the rental units he and my sister own in the area where I would buy, so I believe I could hire him to look after mine. This option also appeals to me because it could allow me to indulge my wanderlust in retirement - I might be able to continue to rent the house for periods when I was away traveling or visiting friends/family.

The other option is to put all the extra savings (after maxing out the 401(k)) into an investment account, and as retirement approaches and I have a clearer idea of my post-retirement plans, start to move some of it into less volatile holding accounts and buy something outright at retirement.

I have previous experience as a landlord, but that was when I was in Boston and the property was in New York - not like owning/managing something from all the way across the country (but again, there are people in the home state I could rely on.)

Does anyone have any thoughts? Any important factors I left out? (I am a SINK and although I hope that changes at some point, I need to plan as though it would not.) If I went with option 1, I would make sure to only do it if I had a nice healthy emergency fund that could cover the mortgage and the CA rent for 3-6 months if disaster struck (like I lost both my job and my tenants at the same time.) Which likely means I wouldn't be in a position to buy until at least a year from now.

Thanks all!
I don't have any specific recommendations for you. However, I wanted to say (a) Welcome! The journey is different for each of us; and (b) $300k in your 401k is nothing to sneeze at--good for you! Especially since you also have a decent pension (SS too? Then you're really in good shape!).

I wouldn't be in a rush to buy a house, either in CA or in the Northeast. A lot can happen, and you seem very wary of home ownership. There's nothing wrong with renting for now--see how you feel in 3-5 years. And I wouldn't get anything "back East" until you have more firm plans as to where you'll live, when you might move there, etc. Again, keep it in your head, see where you are in 3-5 years. Life can take many twists and turns!

Again, welcome, and keep steady on the course!
 
I don't have any specific recommendations for you. However, I wanted to say (a) Welcome! The journey is different for each of us; and (b) $300k in your 401k is nothing to sneeze at--good for you! Especially since you also have a decent pension (SS too? Then you're really in good shape!).

I wouldn't be in a rush to buy a house, either in CA or in the Northeast. A lot can happen, and you seem very wary of home ownership. There's nothing wrong with renting for now--see how you feel in 3-5 years. And I wouldn't get anything "back East" until you have more firm plans as to where you'll live, when you might move there, etc. Again, keep it in your head, see where you are in 3-5 years. Life can take many twists and turns!

Again, welcome, and keep steady on the course!
I'll add in a second vote for tapping the brakes on home ownership right now. It's clear that you don't want to put down roots in CA, so clearly not a good time to buy there. As for heading back East, it sounds like that's very much up in the air. Even if you've got a sure-thing rental back East, what happens if your brother-in-law moves or isn't able to look after the property for any reason? Are you going to move back East or find a professional to manage the property for you? Owning property from long-distance can work, but there are so many issues to consider.
 
Okay. It has taken me weeks to get through this whole thread :surfweb:, and now I'm excited to participate! :wave:

I was wondering if I could get some thoughts on an issue I've been grappling with. I am late to the game in terms of making wise financial decisions, so at the age of 48 I don't own a home and still have $30k in student loan debt. I also have $300k in a 401(k) and $60k in savings. The one thing I have going for me (other than the fact that I have learned some hard lessons and believe I'm now on track) is that I will have a pension of about $4200 per month if I retire at age 65. (I love my job so the thought of working at it another 15 years or so doesn't bother me.) I am also maxing out my 401(k). I have not yet starting funding an IRA (Roth or otherwise).
I am new to this thread too. Have been lurking but never added a post.
I agree with others about waiting to buy a house until you are ready. Be careful buying a rental in a different state. That can be a huge headache. Good job with $300k in 401K with a pension. You will be surprised how fast your retirement account grows after hitting the first $500k. Just channeling Dave Ramsey, why do you still have $30k in debt with $60k in savings? You said you are saving 60% of your income now, so you should be able to replace that amount very quickly.
 
Just channeling Dave Ramsey, why do you still have $30k in debt with $60k in savings? You said you are saving 60% of your income now, so you should be able to replace that amount very quickly.
Excellent question and here's the answer: I was saving my money to pay that off in full and be gloriously debt-free when the pandemic hit. The bulk of that $60k was saved last year. (Aided by the fact that I haven't paid rent since July, because I've been teleworking and living with family helping to care for a sick parent.) Since student loan payments were suspended, I decided to wait and see what happens there in case there's any forgiveness in my future. (I would also like to state for the record that I do not believe that I deserve forgiveness, because those loans could and should have been paid off years ago, but I'm also not gonna look a gift horse in the mouth.)
 
Hello👋. I have always read through this thread and although I am nowhere near FI or RE or even trying to achieve at this point I do however like to learn as much as I can I have gotten some good info from here and learned a few things and I usually end up looking up more info on topics asked about here.

Do most people talk with a financial advisor or get help on how to navigate your finance online? DH and I started a family very very young and we did not look into any savings or retirement options in our 20's as we were just trying to get by. Now in our early 30's our life is very much a 180 from what it was. We both have good jobs I have a pension at work which I put a good amount in and I have two old 401k/Ira from old job. DH has a IRA he opened not too long ago. They do not have much in them but they have grown at a good rate and im looking to get help with options on what to do since we want to start putting more in. Not sure if I should start putting more in my personal retirement accounts instead of work pension since there is no match and no control over investments and I will be getting ss befits also.

We have managed to save in our regular savings a substantial amount( at least for us). We do not own a home but waiting for a right time to buy. Our only debt is one car which can be paid of in 2 years or now if we wanted to but interest is less than 3% so not looking to pay off just yet. Our spending habits range from very frugal to yolo just depends on how im feeling. The pandemic has made me see we could cut back on a few things and save more if we really wanted to.

Any advice on where to look for help. What questions to ask either my self or an advisor too see what we can do to be on track. Better to have just one retirement account and combine everything or leave as is and contribute to each? Any good online sites or other forums I can read and get more info from?
 
I (and my husband) don't like having any financial dvisors, and want to do it all ourselves. My advice is to read about different philosophies, and see what clicks for you personally. I enjoy reading different financial takes, even if it's not for me (like full-on FIRE). My biggest advice is just to always know what you are getting into (when investing), meaning understand it, and make sure your approach is comfortable for you while at the same time risky enough to actually have a chance at making money. The other portion that is important; fees. Fees will eat away at your profits, but are worth it if you absolutely don't know what you are doing, or if you would make more with an advisor than without one (for example, if your nerves kept you from investing at all, but an advisor would get you to).

I like perusing the Boglehead forums, it's always entertaining and informative.

ETA: just to be clear; lawyers and accountants are who we rely on for consultation on technical things related to finances, we just don't like dedicated financial advisors in and of themselves.
 
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We've used financial advisors for at least 25 years. Some people prefer to do all their investing on their own, some like to have an advisor handle everything, most are in between.

In our particular case, we like to know what's going on, and we certainly don't blindly follow recommendations. Our advisor knows our goals and investing styles (DH is more aggressive than I am, but not by much, for example). We didn't have too much when we started, but are now worth 7 figures. I also want to mention, we were 401k millionaires BEFORE my MIL died, leaving us 7 figures. So, our financial journey was impacted by the inheritance, to be sure, but we had already set a good foundation.

Both our financial advisor and our accountant were extremely helpful in navigating receipt of the inheritance. That may sound weird--I keep saying, when you inherit, it's not like on TV, where everyone leaves the funeral to go to the lawyer's office and get checks. In reality, money comes in here and there from various places (insurance, stock assorted accounts, house sale, etc.). How you handle it requires some expertise. In our case, DH inherited a large stock portfolio--MIL was an active trader until the day she died--as well as 7 different IRAs, one of them a Roth. There was also insurance proceeds and a trust which benefitted all the grandchildren, with stipulations--we had to divide "our" half into 4 parts for the 4 kids. And distribute a portion to our oldest. The whole process of settling the estate took over a year, and you have to set up places for it to land--you don't want to inadvertently tap an IRA, or forget to pay RMDs in the death year, or distribute too early and have to ask for money back for unpaid medical bills or something.

In addition, of my 4 kids, 3 aren't interested AT ALL in managing their own funds. 2 of those 3 are adults--legally, we have no right to tell them what to do. They are under our advisor's umbrella, which means we talk to the same people, but they can't give us any status on our kids (we're okay with this). This keeps expenses cheaper for the kids, as the family $ total determines the fees. We do talk to our kids about money and investing, but those 3 are happy with the "set it and forget it" strategy--which isn't horrible. On the plus side, they respect that the money they have was a gift from their grandmother, and haven't shown any interest in spending it rashly.

None of this information may help the newbies, except to show that advisors can be useful, to some, and every journey is different.
 
Hello👋. I have always read through this thread and although I am nowhere near FI or RE or even trying to achieve at this point I do however like to learn as much as I can I have gotten some good info from here and learned a few things and I usually end up looking up more info on topics asked about here.

Do most people talk with a financial advisor or get help on how to navigate your finance online? DH and I started a family very very young and we did not look into any savings or retirement options in our 20's as we were just trying to get by. Now in our early 30's our life is very much a 180 from what it was. We both have good jobs I have a pension at work which I put a good amount in and I have two old 401k/Ira from old job. DH has a IRA he opened not too long ago. They do not have much in them but they have grown at a good rate and im looking to get help with options on what to do since we want to start putting more in. Not sure if I should start putting more in my personal retirement accounts instead of work pension since there is no match and no control over investments and I will be getting ss befits also.

We have managed to save in our regular savings a substantial amount( at least for us). We do not own a home but waiting for a right time to buy. Our only debt is one car which can be paid of in 2 years or now if we wanted to but interest is less than 3% so not looking to pay off just yet. Our spending habits range from very frugal to yolo just depends on how im feeling. The pandemic has made me see we could cut back on a few things and save more if we really wanted to.

Any advice on where to look for help. What questions to ask either my self or an advisor too see what we can do to be on track. Better to have just one retirement account and combine everything or leave as is and contribute to each? Any good online sites or other forums I can read and get more info from?
I think most people that are chasing FIRE are typically not using an advisor. The blunt advice you’d hear on the internet is: if you can’t do the the research and figure it out on your own, an advisor isn’t going to be the answer.
 
Excellent question and here's the answer: I was saving my money to pay that off in full and be gloriously debt-free when the pandemic hit. The bulk of that $60k was saved last year. (Aided by the fact that I haven't paid rent since July, because I've been teleworking and living with family helping to care for a sick parent.) Since student loan payments were suspended, I decided to wait and see what happens there in case there's any forgiveness in my future. (I would also like to state for the record that I do not believe that I deserve forgiveness, because those loans could and should have been paid off years ago, but I'm also not gonna look a gift horse in the mouth.)
My only advice is make that savings work in some way for you. So it needs to be working , and earning something if not paying something down. Just dont leave it in a savings account. Look into safe alternatives for growth.
 
Hello👋. I have always read through this thread and although I am nowhere near FI or RE or even trying to achieve at this point I do however like to learn as much as I can I have gotten some good info from here and learned a few things and I usually end up looking up more info on topics asked about here.

Do most people talk with a financial advisor or get help on how to navigate your finance online? DH and I started a family very very young and we did not look into any savings or retirement options in our 20's as we were just trying to get by. Now in our early 30's our life is very much a 180 from what it was. We both have good jobs I have a pension at work which I put a good amount in and I have two old 401k/Ira from old job. DH has a IRA he opened not too long ago. They do not have much in them but they have grown at a good rate and im looking to get help with options on what to do since we want to start putting more in. Not sure if I should start putting more in my personal retirement accounts instead of work pension since there is no match and no control over investments and I will be getting ss befits also.

We have managed to save in our regular savings a substantial amount( at least for us). We do not own a home but waiting for a right time to buy. Our only debt is one car which can be paid of in 2 years or now if we wanted to but interest is less than 3% so not looking to pay off just yet. Our spending habits range from very frugal to yolo just depends on how im feeling. The pandemic has made me see we could cut back on a few things and save more if we really wanted to.

Any advice on where to look for help. What questions to ask either my self or an advisor too see what we can do to be on track. Better to have just one retirement account and combine everything or leave as is and contribute to each? Any good online sites or other forums I can read and get more info from?

Welcome over to this neck of the woods. Lots of great information and wonderful folks over here. I've learned so much since I started reading.

My primary focus has been on maximizing investments as opposed to reducing spending to achieve a higher savings rate. So I'll focus my recommendations in that area. There are lots of folks here that can provide great information on being more intentional with spending and freeing up more money for savings.

You've already received some great advice and suggestions for further reading. I definitely second the recommendation to check out the forums on bogleheads. It provides context and background for simplifying your portfolio (armchair investing) and minimizing fees. It also talks about asset allocations and determining what makes sense for you now as well as how to adjust as you near retirement.

When we were about your age we met with a financial advisor at our credit union. It was free and we were very novice. We had always saved, and put as much as we could into our 401k's, but I'm not even sure I knew what a Roth IRA was back then 😬 We had just had our daughter and wanted to discuss college savings and also see if we were on track for retirement. Advisor set us up with 2 shiny new Roth IRAs and recommended utilizing those for college savings instead of 529s or other options. For several years we pretty much set it and forget it and let things ride. Then we started hitting phase out limits for Roth's and my research began. I realized our 401ks were split across all kinds of crazy funds with no real rhyme or reason and I had no idea what our portfolio was actually made up of. I knew the dollar amounts but had never considered what my ideal asset allocation and risk tolerance were.

Bogleheads, this forum, and hours of gathering data on our current investments, really helped me to be more intentional about how we save.

If I could go back and talk to 30 something me this is the number one advice I would give, to be more intentional with savings. Not to save more (of course that's good too!), but to save more wisely.

Start by reading up on asset allocations and think about creating an investment policy statement. Some folks get really detailed with this but I simply determined what our mix of equities/bonds/cash should be, decided to rebalance annually unless it got really out of whack, and set a goal of maxing out all tax advantaged accounts (401k, roth, HSA, contributing to pension at my work, etc.). Once the initial work of moving funds around was done, it was on auto pilot. I check account balances and keep tabs on the markets but that's about it. And part of setting your asset allocation is knowing that you won't have a knee jerk reaction to pull out of the market during an event like this past March. Pick a mix that you will feel comfortable weathering through the inevitable downturns.

It sounds like you're in great shape. With a bit of research you'll be well on your way to maximizing your savings without having to pay fees or spend excess time (unless you're a nerd like me and end up actually enjoying all the research, even after your portfolio is set 🤓).

We're here for any questions you might have or scenarios you want to walk through.
 

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