The Implosion of John Kerry?

[Kendra17]

As you may or may not know, only 1 of John Kerry's 23 fellow Swift boat commanders from Coastal Division 11 supports his candidacy today.

http://www.swiftvets.com/index.php?topic=SwiftPhoto

(but, for fun, look at: http://www.drudgereport.com/dnc82.htm)

It looks like this can be the downfall of the Kerry campaign and, essentially, the end (we can only hope) of the Democratic Party.

There are several reasons I believe this.

1- Kerry is the only person who characterizes this campaign with the core issue being his Viet Nam war service.

2-His massive speech at the DNC in Boston, was all about his Viet Nam war service, and practically nothing about his 20 year service in the Senate.

3-His campaign is not highlighting his Senatorial record (because there is little to highlight). Point of fact--Kerry has the worst voting attendance record in the Senate. Additional Point of Fact-Kerry is more left-wing radical than Kennedy or Byrd.

4-Most importantly, the Kerry Campaign's nonresponse to the Swift Boat Veterans' accusations is essentially anti-American. And, why would use such strong language? Because the Kerry campaign is NOT responding to and not denying the allegations of his Boatmates and fellow Viet Nam veterans. Rather the Kerry campaign has hired lawyers to block the airing of TV spots paid for and produced by the Swift Boat veterans. He is (tellingly) not accusing the veterans of slander or libel. How is he doing this? The Kerry campaign is threatening the TV stations that carried this spot with legal action. The fact that the Kerry campaign is NOT addressing the issues brought up by eyewitnesses to his war service--the very war service that he bases his campaign on--is telling.

Essentially, the Kerry campaign, in their threats against the television stations, are trying--with heavy-handed legal tactics--to subvert the First Amendment Rights of American citizens.


Edited to add (after 2nd post): I would like to see an end to the current twisted incarnation of the Democratic Party. I hope, however, the Democratic Party continues and is reestablished on a more rational, intellectual, and reasonable basis (i.e., Zell Miller, Joe Leiberman). I do want to see the multi-party system of the United States continue.

 

[Pugdog007]

We can only hope.

Unfortunately, it seems to me that the peaceniks are brainwashed. They ignore everything negative about their guy. They haven't even demanded an answer to the most recent question he refuses to answer, "Knowing what you know now... would you have gone into Iraq?" He says maybe. Yeah... that's the kind of leader I'd want... one that doesn't even have a clear direction on the most important issue of the campaign.

 

[peachgirl]

It looks like this can be the downfall of the Kerry campaign and, essentially, the end (we can only hope) of the Democratic Party.

So you think the country would be better off if we had no choice in who we elected for President? Right wing extremism at it's worst....

How many people from Bush's wartime experience are backing him?

Oh yeah, that's right...he doesn't have ANY combat experience, does he?

Matter of fact, he doesn't have any military experience to speak of period...at least none that anyone but him remembers.

Unfortunately, it seems to me that the peaceniks are brainwashed.

Funny, that's what I think about the right wingers....

 

[ripleysmom]

Yeah what peachgirl said!

 

[hulabird]

It looks like this can be the downfall of the Kerry campaign and, essentially, the end (we can only hope) of the Democratic Party.

From your lips (er...keyboard) to God's ears.........

I was watching some show a few weeks ago and Bill Maher was on and he was condeming the President because he lives by the Bible and Word of God and thus runs the country based on his values and belief in God...I was outraged at this...and I would hate to be in Maher's shoes after talking against God that way!

 

[treesinger]

Originally posted by peachgirl
So you think the country would be better off if we had no choice in who we elected for President? Right wing extremism at it's worst....

How many people from Bush's wartime experience are backing him?

Oh yeah, that's right...he doesn't have ANY combat experience, does he?

Matter of fact, he doesn't have any military experience to speak of period...at least none that anyone but him remembers.



Funny, that's what I think about the right wingers....

Thanks for trying to change the subject. We're talking about KERRY in the VietNam War, not BUSH. If you want to criticise Bush, fine. But that doesn't change the fact that Kerry is getting very little support from his war buddies that he was present with those 4 months. As the OP said, that is very telling.

Criticizing Bush's military record does nothing to answer the question of why Kerry's boat-mates do not support him.

 

[JoeThaNo1Stunna]

Bill Maher is an idiot on the level of Michael Moore.

 

[Rutt and Tuke]

Geez, maybe they don't support Kerry because his beliefs are different. I've had wonderful co-workers and bosses, but that doesn't mean I'd vote for them if their political beliefs were different than mine.

IMO the Bush campaign (or soft money supporting Bush) has made more effort knocking Kerry's Vietnam service than Kerry has spent trying to make it the big issue.

 

[Samsara]

Originally posted by Kendra17
As you may or may not know, only 1 of John Kerry's 23 fellow Swift boat commanders from Coastal Division 11 supports his candidacy today.

http://www.swiftvets.com/index.php?topic=SwiftPhoto

(but, for fun, look at: http://www.drudgereport.com/dnc82.htm)

It looks like this can be the downfall of the Kerry campaign and, essentially, the end (we can only hope) of the Democratic Party.

WARNING! The above mis-statements have officially earned an ELMO ALERT LEVEL!

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Um, you might want to double check your so-called "facts,"... Or at least avoid right-wing republican smear sites when you collect them!

The truth of the matter is: ALL but one of Kerry's former crewmates support his bid for election.

From CNN: When Kerry accepted the Democrats' presidential nomination last week, 14 of his former crewmates appeared on stage with him, and Rassman spoke of how Kerry had saved his life in Vietnam.

And, as far as the condition of the Democratic Party, well, again, your facts seem to be a little, um, how shall we say, "totally untrue."

Let's see...

Earlier this year the Democratic Primaries turned out record numbers of Democrats in state, after state, after state. Hmmm, sounds pretty strong to me.

The Democratic Party has united behind John Kerry as the candidate of choice. Hmmm, sounds strong to me.

The Democratic Party has broken record after record in fundraising this year. Hmmm, sounds strong to me.

Registration drives have brought record numbers of new Democrats into the party. Hmmm, sounds strong to me.

Democrats have already picked up two seats in congress this year beating two republicans. Hmmm, sounds strong to me.


Ahhh... Sounds like we're in pretty good shape. Now, the republican party and the shrubs administration... Well, that's a whole other story!

 

[Kendra17]

Sam:
Apparently you work for the Kerry Campaign. Kerry had Viet Nam veterans--even some who served on Swift boats-- by his side, but not the OIC Swift boatmates. Please check the link I posted. http://www.swiftvets.com

To clarify your misstatement (taken from the Swift Boat veterans' site): John Kerry has been able to convince about 13 men who served on Swift boats in the Mekong Delta to support him, 7 or 8 of whom were at various times crew members on his own 6-man boat. Those are the men the Kerry campaign so prominently featured at the Democratic Convention. The photograph we have posted at SwiftVets.com shows Kerry with 19 of his fellow Swift boat OICs (Officers In Charge) in Coastal Division 11. Four OICs were not present for the photograph. Only one of his 23 fellow OICs from Coastal Division 11 supports John Kerry.

Overall, more than 250 Swift boat veterans are on the record questioning Kerry's fitness to serve as Commander-in-Chief. That list includes his entire chain of command -- every single officer Kerry served under in Vietnam. The Kerry game plan is to ignore all this and pretend that the 13 veterans his campaign jets around the country and puts up in 5-star hotels really represent the truth about his short, controversial combat tour.

The Swift boats fought in groups, so the other OICs who fought alongside Kerry know him well and can accurately describe what he did and did not do. In many cases Kerry's fellow OICs had a better perspective than his own crew members, since the latter had no way to determine whether he was following orders and how well he worked with his peers.

For further news regarding this fact, you can find it on:
[
http://www.nationalreview.com/york/york200407301059.asp
http://www.drudgereport.com/dnc82.htm
http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewPrint.asp?Page=\Politics\archive\200406\POL20040602b.html
and, a very good synopsis at: http://www.washingtondispatch.com/opinion/article_9760.shtml

If you would like to discuss the issues in the original post, please feel free to do so. The facts presented there speak for themselves. Your classic liberal shrillness is completely unconvincing to any discerning ear or eye.

Many are awed by the aura of power or, in this case, the presumptive aura of presumptive power. Many people of good conscience are not convinced. A soldier at war sometimes, like Kerry, has many faces. He admits to being a war criminal. He admits to committing atrocities. Follow the line of the Swift Boat veterans that oppose Kerry and consider opening your mind to opposing views.

Kerry served 20 years in the United States Senate. The consistent bad choice of the people of Massachusetts in reelecting Kerry and Kennedy, time and again, is no justification to punish the rest of the country with these so-called leaders.

I know that you watched the Kerry speech. There is a reason why his Senate record was completely glossed over. Soon, the people of the United States, just as they did during the Dukakis run, will learn that there is no Massachusetts Miracle. Kerry is the new Dukakis.

I understand that you on the left have a deep visceral hatred towards the current President. I am also aware that, to further your agenda of hatred of Bush, and to move the country back towards the left, any Democratic candidate, no matter what his or her background might consist of, be it criminality, malfeasance, or even admitted war crime atrocities, will do.

Kerry is clearly not the man to lead the country in this time of war. But for you, and your friends, it's not a matter of character, qualifications, abilities, or plans for the future, it's all about 'not-being-Bush'.

Do you think the Swift Boat veterans that oppose Kerry would put their own reputations on the line in coming out against him without an extremely valid reason? They are trying to share with the American people what the people of Massachusetts tried to share with the general population when Dukakis was the candidate. There did come a time when the people saw that Emperor Dukakis had no clothes. In this case, the realization with Mr. Kerry will happen much sooner.

 

[Viking]

Perhaps Kerry had some flaws in his leadership abilities more than 30 years ago.
Unfortunately Bush has them now. Dubya did his best to convince the rest of the world that he is an oil-greedy warmonger and succedeed. Distracting from internal problems by starting a war to unite the people against an exterior enemy is an ancient tactic and nowadays only suckers should fall for it.
If Bush gets re-elected, the USA will separate itself from the rest of the civilized world. BTW, re-elected is the wrong term as he wasn't properly elected the first time.

 

[JPN4265]

Originally posted by peachgirl
So you think the country would be better off if we had no choice in who we elected for President? Right wing extremism at it's worst....

Maybe you should reread the post. I did not see where no choice in president was mentioned.

 

[JPN4265]

Originally posted by Viking
Perhaps Kerry had some flaws in his leadership abilities more than 30 years ago.
Unfortunately Bush has them now. Dubya did his best to convince the rest of the world that he is an oil-greedy warmonger and succedeed. Distracting from internal problems by starting a war to unite the people against an exterior enemy is an ancient tactic and nowadays only suckers should fall for it.
If Bush gets re-elected, the USA will separate itself from the rest of the civilized world. BTW, re-elected is the wrong term as he wasn't properly elected the first time.

France and Germany is not the rest of the civilized world. They are minor players on the world stage and cannot accept this fact. The power that they have or had was because of the support of the USA. They had better elect new leaders, some day they are going to be calling on the USA for support, and the phone may ring for a long time before it is answered.

Yes Bush is and was elected to the be our President. EVERY recount showed that PRESIDENT BUSH won the election. Remember we live in a Republic, not a Democratic society.

 

[peachgirl]

We're talking about KERRY in the VietNam War, not BUSH.

No, "we're" talking about whatever anyone posts. Fortunately, this site isn't run like the Bush pep rallies where only those who have "approved" thoughts are allowed to participate. If Republicans are so foolish as to want to concentrate on military service, they need to be prepared to explain Bush's murky and questionable military record.

Btw Kendra, try getting off those extremist websites and look at some who are little more factual. Your links are laughable. Just because a site says what you want to hear doesn't make it true.

Even Fox News won't back this crap that's being passed around...

But while the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth have been hammering Kerry's record, every living soldier who served under Kerry's command is backing their former commander. Additionally, Vietnam hero Sen. John McCain (search), R-Ariz., has decried the tactics of this group and urged President Bush to distance himself from it; the Bush campaign has refused to do so thus far.

Regarding where the money is coming from for the swiftvets.com site and commericials....

.....Many Of Them Are Republicans Who Have Contributed To And Backed Various Bush Campaigns And Causes Over The Decades..... Kerry's military service was an asset during the primaries; critics hoped to transform it into a liability now..... The GOP says it's not involved with the veterans criticizing Kerry, but many of them are Republicans who have contributed to and backed various Bush campaigns and causes over the decades.

From the man whose life Kerry saved:

You know, there was a time when I never thought I'd see these guys again. A lot of our friends never made it home. We still miss them, especially on a night like tonight," Rassmann said. "I've seen John Kerry in action. I know his character. I've witnessed his bravery and leadership under fire. And I know he will be a great commander in chief.

From the Dallas Morning News:

Dallas Morning News: Veterans' Group Critical of Kerry Backed by Bush Supporter. Bob Perry, a major supporter of President Bush and the Republican Party, is the biggest financial backer of a veterans group seeking to discredit Democrat John Kerry's military service, according to federal records. Perry, a Houston homebuilder, gave $100,000 to Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, a group that has been critical of Kerry's anti-war activities after he returned from Vietnam. That accounted for two-thirds of the organization's receipts to date.

And finally from John McCain, a victim of the viciousness of the Bush campaign....

I think the ad is dishonest and dishonorable. As it is, none of these individuals served on the boat (Kerry) commanded. (AP 8/5)

It was the same kind of deal that was pulled on me," McCain said in an interview with The Associated Press, referring to his bitter Republican primary fight with President Bush. (AP, 8/5/)

I recall some of the most indignant posts because Dem's had the nerve to raise questions about Bush's questionable service. The righteous indignation was amazing. Now though, it seems that it's perfectly ok to trash a man's military service all because you don't agree with him politically. That is pathetic and shameful.

The men who are complaining now are still bitter over Kerry's activities when he came home. That's understandable. They have a right to disagree and to voice that disagreement. The problem is, they need to do just that instead of this cheap smear campaign.

Of course, that wouldn't have gotten them a sweet book deal that's going to make them a very lot of money. Btw, why did they wait until NOW to make this all public? Why didn't they say something when the medals were being investigated??? Can you say CASH????The military investigates every incident where a medal is to be awarded. They don't hand them out like candy. He earned them, he deserved them.

No matter what you think of John Kerry's politics, he served his country admirably. As I said in another thread, our country owes him a debt of gratitude just as we do every other person who really served in the military.


Now, anyone want to provide some links that verify Bush's so called military service??? A couple of guys that have an opinion on the quality of his service would be nice as well.

 

[CEDmom]

Originally posted by Kendra17
Edited to add (after 2nd post): I would like to see an end to the current twisted incarnation of the Democratic Party. I hope, however, the Democratic Party continues and is reestablished on a more rational, intellectual, and reasonable basis (i.e., Zell Miller, Joe Leiberman). I do want to see the multi-party system of the United States continue.

Funny, I'd like to see the same thing for the Republican party. Maybe that will happen once Bush is out of office.

 

[WillyJ]

While there's still a lot that could happen between now and Nov. I hardly see any signs Kerry is on the verge of "imploding".


The "Swiftboat" vets have yet to show any credibility- their site and the site they send people to for the "facts" behind thier claims is run by the "Freepers" and even Bill O'Reilly has chastised them for making accusations they can't back up. . .

And while I'm not a big believer in the polls, one of the most consistent ones over the past few years has been Zogby and in their latest they have Kerry leading Bush in the Electoral College by a 291-215 margin. Latest Zogby Poll Results

As I said, there's a long way to go. . but if Zogby is accurate then were the electtion be held today Kerry would win by an electoral landslide-

I heard Pat Buchanan say the other night that win or lose there is going to be a "civil war" between the traditional conservatives and the "neo-con" wing of the Republican party after the election. . so I'd say that it looks like Bush and the Republicans are the ones on the verge of imploding, not Kerry and the Dems.

 

[Elwood Blues]

Originally posted by Viking
Perhaps Kerry had some flaws in his leadership abilities more than 30 years ago.
Unfortunately Bush has them now. Dubya did his best to convince the rest of the world that he is an oil-greedy warmonger and succedeed. Distracting from internal problems by starting a war to unite the people against an exterior enemy is an ancient tactic and nowadays only suckers should fall for it.
If Bush gets re-elected, the USA will separate itself from the rest of the civilized world. BTW, re-elected is the wrong term as he wasn't properly elected the first time.

Again, another attempt at redirection. Nice work.

Besides, what a load of horse poopy.

I think I asked you this before. Are YOU going to stop coming to the US to visit is Bush is re-elected? If you answer yes, then I commend you for sticking to some sort of principle. Otherwise, it's the same old "WE HATE THE US!!!" while booking their next trip to WDW.

 

[Elwood Blues]

Originally posted by peachgirl



I recall some of the most indignant posts because Dem's had the nerve to raise questions about Bush's questionable service. The righteous indignation was amazing. Now though, it seems that it's perfectly ok to trash a man's military service all because you don't agree with him politically. That is pathetic and shameful.

You obviously don't see the difference. Bush hasn't made his military record the cornerstone of his campaign. Kerry is playing it up big time. Everywhere he goes he states, "When I was in Vietnam....". The man was there for 4 months. I'm not doubting that a lot can happen in that short a time but there were many many that were there for much longer and some even went back for another tour. The bottom line is that if Kerry has decided to make his record an important part of his campaign, then it will naturally get a lot of scrutiny. But what's funny is that he HASN'T made is record in the Senate has big of a part in his campaign? Why is that? It's because people tend to highlight what they believe is their strong points and hope nobody looks at the weak ones.

 

[Elwood Blues]

Originally posted by Rutt and Tuke
Geez, maybe they don't support Kerry because his beliefs are different. .

Yep. They believe that Kerry wasn't in Cambodia Xmas '68 and he does.

The last I heard that he said he was CLOSE to Cambodia but not really in it. Does that mean the Congressional record is wrong? And what he states in his book is wrong too?

 

[Elwood Blues]

Originally posted by WillyJ
I heard Pat Buchanan say the other night that win or lose there is going to be a "civil war" between the traditional conservatives and the "neo-con" wing of the Republican party after the election. . so I'd say that it looks like Bush and the Republicans are the ones on the verge of imploding, not Kerry and the Dems.

Now that's a new one.