The Implosion of John Kerry?

Originally posted by Elwood Blues
OMG!!! That's SO funny. I was just thinking the same thing.

Then why do you keep posting?;)

At least try to get your facts straight. In case you haven't noticed, this smear campaign against Kerry has apparently had the opposite effect. So keep it up, and thanks for getting more Kerry supporters in the pool. :sunny:
 
Hmmm..... Seems to me that Kerry is refusing to release records of some sort. Can't remember what it was. Care to help a poor soul out?

I believe the only records he does not want released are those regarding his divorce. I don't see where that's anyone's business but his. At to his military service, everything is available to see....

http://www.johnkerry.com/about/john_kerry/military_records.html

Think you could direct me to the site where all of Bush's military records are?

And Bush's stint in the NG has been pretty much talked about and documented to death.

Talked about, investigated...yes. Documented??? Where?

One claim is accurate, the other is not (or even a complete lie).

On this we absolutely agree.

Taking lessons from wvrevy with the rolleyes smiley?

Perhaps you don't understand the purpose of smilies. When all you have is the printed word, sometimes intent can be misunderstood. The rolleyes smilie is meant to show sarcasm. I was being sarcastic and I wanted to be sure you knew it.

In case you haven't noticed, this smear campaign against Kerry has apparently had the opposite effect.


You're right!

In a recent poll, Kerry's support among veterans has increased signficantly just since June. I'll see if I can find the link and the actual figures, but it was posted here just a few days ago.
 
Originally posted by Kendra17
Edited to add (after 2nd post): I would like to see an end to the current twisted incarnation of the Democratic Party. I hope, however, the Democratic Party continues and is reestablished on a more rational, intellectual, and reasonable basis (i.e., Zell Miller, Joe Leiberman). I do want to see the multi-party system of the United States continue.

Blah,blah,blah. Same tired old rhetoric that only the kool-aid drinkers in the Republican Party believe. If you added Republican to this little piece of keyboard genius I'd actually agree with you.

Keep up the good work, you're doing a great job of alienating this independent voter.
 
Originally posted by minniepumpernickel
In case you haven't noticed, this smear campaign against Kerry has apparently had the opposite effect. So keep it up, and thanks for getting more Kerry supporters in the pool. :sunny:

This would be the best argument for Bush supporters to let it go ;) Focusing on Vietnam is probably not going to help President Bush any more than having Jimmy Carter speak about leadership at the Democratic National Convention will help Sen. Kerry.
 

Careful now, don't take my defense of Kerry as support for him.

I defend anyone who is misatreated, whether I like the or not. Heck, even Bill O'Reilly has defended Kerry against the SBVT. And I KNOW he doesn't support Kerry.


Actually, he hasn't said who he's votring for yet, but I think I can guess. He still says it's up in the air for him.

Yeah, right!
 
Originally posted by jrydberg
This would be the best argument for Bush supporters to let it go ;) Focusing on Vietnam is probably not going to help President Bush any more than having Jimmy Carter speak about leadership at the Democratic National Convention will help Sen. Kerry.

I'm in a really bad mood today, which is usually not a very good time to read mudslinging debates.;)

Do you think that the fact that the American public gets so taken in by the propoganda from all sides means that the majority of "us" have low IQ's? Or is it something else?:confused: :D
 
Originally posted by JPN4265
Yes Bush is and was elected to the be our President. EVERY recount showed that PRESIDENT BUSH won the election. Remember we live in a Republic, not a Democratic society.

Check your facts and defintions. We are both a republic and democratic society. Not to be confused with Republican.
 
Originally posted by minniepumpernickel
I'm in a really bad mood today, which is usually not a very good time to read mudslinging debates.;)

Do you think that the fact that the American public gets so taken in by the propoganda from all sides means that the majority of "us" have low IQ's? Or is it something else?:confused: :D

Well, I think the campaign managers, not the public, are lacking in judgement if this is what they're focusing on.

As for why people get taken in by propaganda, I don't think it's for lack of IQ. Very intelligent people can be fooled. I have been, on occasion, and I hope it's not for lack of IQ ;)
 
Originally posted by peachgirl


Perhaps you don't understand the purpose of smilies. When all you have is the printed word, sometimes intent can be misunderstood. The rolleyes smiley is meant to show sarcasm. I was being sarcastic and I wanted to be sure you knew it.
.

I know exactly what that means and why people use it but I try (and sometimes I fail) to not allow myself to stoop to that level. It adds nothing to the discussion. And it's not very nice either.

You know what's funny? Nearly every time I read one of your posts about this topic, I can imagine your face getting red, the blood vessels in you neck getting larger and your *this* close to screaming. I could be wrong, but I'm probably pretty close.
 
Originally posted by minniepumpernickel

Do you think that the fact that the American public gets so taken in by the propoganda from all sides means that the majority of "us" have low IQ's? Or is it something else?:confused: :D

It's something else for most people.

Emotions.
 
Originally posted by Elwood Blues
It's something else for most people.

Emotions.

So it isn't an emotional issue for republicans? Why all the bluster?
 
Originally posted by jrydberg
Well, I think the campaign managers, not the public, are lacking in judgement if this is what they're focusing on.

As for why people get taken in by propaganda, I don't think it's for lack of IQ. Very intelligent people can be fooled. I have been, on occasion, and I hope it's not for lack of IQ ;)

Re:Propaganda / low iqs?

I think it has more to do with feeling very passionately about something and grabbing hold to something that backs you up without always checking (or caring to) check the facts. And I'm talking about BOTH sides here and many issues. And people who make and promote propaganda have very high iqs, as a rule. They have to, to be so crafty. I don't think the people who fall for it have low iq's. People tend to go with what they feel. Iq does not always come into play.

There are two sides to every story. I am split right down the middle to be honest with you. (I took one of those political quizzes once and it literally gave me a 50/50 split between both sides based on my answers).

I don't like Bush or Kerry. I don't dislike Bush or Kerry. There are certain issues which mean more to me at this point in time than others and I vote based upon those issues and how I feel about them.

I don't really know what to make of the swift vote ad.
 
Originally posted by MICKEY88
he claimed that Kerry injured himself, applied for the purple heart and other commanders said he didn't earn it,

You *do* realize that you don't just get a Purple Heart willy-nilly....there is, in fact, a review board process before one is awarded. So you're now saying that that process is flawed, since you're asserting that Sen. Kerry didn't deserve the Purple Heart they did, in fact, award him. Which, of course, mars the value of any Purple Heart awarded to any soldier during the Viet Nam war. Lovely.

Thanks, but I'll stick to the word of the review board which reviewed the evidence for the medal shortly after it happened, rather than the 20 + year old memories of a handful of embittered vets.

And, FWIW, I've long felt that the only reason Kerry has made an issue of his war record is because as soon as it became apparent he would win the Democratic nomination, the republicans started attacking that record with a vengeance. We did not hear nearly as much of Kerry's war record during the primaries; if it was his plan to make that the focus of his campaign, I would think it would've started back then. Personally, I'd like to see this put to rest and instead get some focus on the issues....but then, that's the whole reason the GOP has made this a focus.....heaven forbid we actually get to hear about the actual issues.
 
The reserves of today are facing the full brunt of battle.

In the Vietnam era, those that were well connected or had the knowledge on how to manipulate the system, simply got a deferment or joined the reserves which meant staying within the safe borders of the the USA.

Kerry, with family influence and money could have ducked service just like the others. But he said "send me." He volunteered and went into the jaws of battle. Bush and Cheney made sure that they wouldn't even get a nick or scrape from just ducking into a foxhole.

******************************************

name this tune...

1. I attacked and took over two countries.
2. I spent the US surplus and bankrupted the US treasury.
3. I shattered the record for the biggest annual deficit in history (not easy)
4. I set an economic record for the most personal bankruptcies filed in any 12 month period.
5. I set all-time record for the biggest drop in the history of the stock market.
6. I am the first president in decades to execute a federal prisoner.
7. I am the first president in US history to enter office with a criminal record.
8. In my first year in office I set the all-time record for the most days on vacation by any president in US history. (tough to beat my dad's, but I did)
9. After taking the entire month of August off for vacation, I presided over the worst security failure in US history.
10. I set the record for most campaign raising trips by an president in US history.
11. In my first two years in office over 2 million Americans lost their jobs.
12. I cut unemployment benefits for more out-of-work Americans than any other president in US history.
13. I set the all-time record for most real estate foreclosures in a 12-month period.
14. I appointed more convicted criminals to administration positions than any other president in US history.
15. I set the record for fewest press conferences of any president since the advent of TV.
16. I presided over the biggest energy crisis in US history and refused to intervene when corruption was revealed.
17. I signed more laws and executive orders amending the Constitution than any other US president in history.
18. I cut health-care benefits for war veterans.
19. I set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously take to the streets to protest me (15 million people) shattering the record for protest against any person in the history of mankind.
20. I dissolved more international treaties than any president in US history.
21. I've made my presidency the most secretive and unaccountable of any in US history.
22. Members of my caninet are the richest of any administration in US history. (the poorest mulitmillionaire, Condoleeza Rice, has a Chevron oil tanker named after her)
23. I am the first president in US history to have all 50 states of the union simultaneously struggle against bankruptcy.
24. I presided over the biggest corporate stock market fraud in any market in any country in the history of the world.
25. I am the first president in US history to order a US attack and military occupation of a sovereign nation, and I did so against the will of the United Nations and the vast majority of the international community.
26. I have created the largest government department bureaucracy in the history of the US.
27. I set the all-time record for biggest annual budget spending increases, more than any other president in US history (Reagan was hard to beat, but I did it!!!)
28. I am the first president in US history to compel the United Nations to remove the US from the Human Rights Commission.
29. I am the first president in US history to have the United Nations remove the US from Elections Monitoring Board.
30. I removed more checks and balances and have the least congressional oversight of any presidential administration in US history.
31. I rendered the entire United Nations irrelevant.
32. I withdrew from the World Court Of Law.
33. I refused to allow inspectors access to US prisoners of war and by default no longer abide by the Geneva Conventions.
34. I am the first president in US history to refuse United Nations election inspectors access during the 2002 elections.
35. I am the all-time US (and world) record holder for the most corporate campaign donations.
36. The biggest lifetime contributor to my campaign, who is also one of my best friends, presided over one of the largest corporate bankruptcy frauds in world history (Kenneth Lay, former CEO of Enron Corporation)
37. I spent more money on polls and focus groups than any president in US history.
38. I am the first president to run and hide when the US came under attack ( and then lied, saying the enemy had the code to Air Force 1).
39. I am the first US president to establish a secret shadow government.
40. I took the world's sympathy for the US after 9/11, and in less than a year made the US the most resented country in the world (possibly the biggest diplomatic failure in US and world history).
41. I am the first US president in history to have a majority of the people of Europe (71%) view my presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and stabilty.
42. I changed US policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded government contracts.
43. I set the all-time record for the number of administration appointees who violated US laws by not selling their huge investments in corporations that later made bids for gov contracts.
44. I have removed more freedoms and civil liberties for Americans than any other president in US history.
45. I have created the most divided country in decades, possibly the most divided that the US has been since the Civil War.
46. I entered office with the strongest economy in US history and in less than two years turned every single economic category heading straight down. RECORDS AND REFERENCES
47. I have at atleast one conviction for drunk driving in Maine ( Texas driving record has been erased and is not available).
48. I was AWOL from the National Guard and deserted the military during time of war. I refused to take a drug test or even answer any questions about drug use.
49. All records of my tenure as governor of Texas have been spirited away to my father's library, sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view. All records of any SEC investigation into my insider trading or bankrupt companies are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view.
50. All minutes of meetings of any public corportaions for which I served on the board are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view. Any records or minutes from meeting I ( or my VP ) attended regarding public energy policy are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public review.
 
Originally posted by Elwood Blues
I know exactly what that means and why people use it but I try (and sometimes I fail) to not allow myself to stoop to that level. It adds nothing to the discussion. And it's not very nice either.

You know what's funny? Nearly every time I read one of your posts about this topic, I can imagine your face getting red, the blood vessels in you neck getting larger and your *this* close to screaming. I could be wrong, but I'm probably pretty close.

I envision a shaking of the head followed by a chuckle at the obvious blind spot many of the posters here seem to have. Betcha I'm closer to the truth. (Smilies purposely omitted.)
 
Answer this: are you better off then you were 4 years ago?

Most of us aren't.
 
Originally posted by BedKnobbery2
You *do* realize that you don't just get a Purple Heart willy-nilly....there is, in fact, a review board process before one is awarded. So you're now saying that that process is flawed, since you're asserting that Sen. Kerry didn't deserve the Purple Heart they did, in fact, award him. Which, of course, mars the value of any Purple Heart awarded to any soldier during the Viet Nam war. Lovely.


just repeating what I've heard from numerous sources, I do know there is a review board, and isn't there a procedure by which to get the paperwork to the review board, what I've heard is that the paperwork was stopped before it got that far, because numerous witnesses, including other swift boat commanders disputed Kerry's version of what happened, he then supposedly waited 'till these people had been transferred out, and re-applied or whatever the proper term is..

no process is flawless, but that doesn't mean anyone else was sneaky enough to cheat the system..

I wouldn't question any other purple heart recipient without reason to..
 
I personally think (and hope) that eventually Kerry's campaign will implode just by his sheer wishy-washiness. I can't understand those that support him just don't seem to care that the man seems to have no principles that he stands by whatsoever. Every day it's a different attitude, a different stance on an issue, I support the war, I don't support the war, I would do things differently (but I won't tell you how I would do them).

I really wonder that he's gotten as far as he has...Is he for real???
 
Originally posted by MICKEY88


no process is flawless, but that doesn't mean anyone else was sneaky enough to cheat the system..


*sigh* and just because someone says something doesn't make it true....tell me, do they have copies of the original request that was supposedly "denied the first time around"?

And although you may not think you are marring the value of any Purple Heart, that is exactly what you are doing. Putting forth the idea that someone can easily cheat the system that awards them puts ANY Purple Heart award under question, whether you like to believe that or not. Which is exactly why so many veterans are disturbed by these ads and assertions.
 
Originally posted by Missy1961
Answer this: are you better off then you were 4 years ago?

Most of us aren't.

Aside from some minor increases in security (things I always thought should be there anyway, like better security on the subway) and changes to my pesonal life that have nothing to do with government, I'm pretty much exactly the same as I was 4 years ago. Not terribly better, not certainly not worse.

EDITED : Because it was long and OT :teeth:
 















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