The Downfall of DAS and the rise of Fastpass+.... coincidence?

[ohdewer33]

Yes, Disney is trying to make money but also trying to ensure that everyone has a magical experience. As most of us know, nothing is guaranteed when you scan your ticket or magic band and place that finger on the kiosk. Having to deal with issues and changes all the time, I think the folks who comment in this group are probably the best to handle a Disney Day. For lack of a better term, my wife calls it "Roll With The Crazy." That's what we do with our DD with Autism on a daily basis, so that's what we do at Disney.

 

[Bearval]

Yeah I suppose I could see it increasing. I find it interesting how people are angry about Disney charging for a faster lane, yet other theme parks do the same and no one seems to think that’s a problem…

I think it is just that Disney made a lot of changes that in a real short period of time is what has people really upset and it didn't help when some of the Disney executives made snide comments when people complained.

The announcement last week said they were not changing prices. I'm sure that means for now, so who knows if/when they will adjust them in the future.

$39 is the high end during peak times in Dec and spring break. The rest fluctuate by park and crowd estimates.
This week it's $18-29.

https://www.wdwmagic.com/genieprice.htm
https://www.thrill-data.com/news/disney-world-genie-plus-price-tracker/

I can see them not waiting long to increase the pricing since a lot more people will see this as a bargain to get at the very least 3 guaranteed attraction times and many more will make the purchase.

 

[jennab]

I can see them not waiting long to increase the pricing since a lot more people will see this as a bargain to get at the very least 3 guaranteed attraction times and many more will make the purchase.

My guess is they leave it until ticket price increases. Then they might increase at the same time.

 

[Ollivier]

These changes are a three-stage rocket.
First, increasing capacity in LL by significantly reducing DAS usage.
Second, adjusting Genie+ to Multi Pass LL.
And the final stage is optimizing the price point to find the best balance.
All of this clearly has one ultimate goal: profit maximization.

 

[Jellybean9]

They didn't publish pricing yet but they will value this at least at $49 or higher since they now are guaranteeing you 3 advance selections and the ability to replace each selection as it is used. They were charging as much as $39 for Genie + with no guarantees and even added a disclaimer that you may only get 2 or 3 attractions.

I don’t see them raising the price compared to Genie+ because users could get way more LL’s with G+ (and had the added bonus of flexibility). With the tiers, inability to book overlapping LL’s (no more than 15 min overlap), and lack of inventory due to the preselects being sucked up by guests with 10-14 day trips, Multipass is going to be way less productive. With G+, your arrival day could be an amazing afternoon if you stacked 5-6 attractions. It didn’t matter that it was the 1st day of your trip. Now the first few days of your trip prob won’t have the LL preselects that you actually want. Multipass will work well for some people (e.g. people who couldn’t understand Genie+) but most people will actually get less.

 

[dreamer17555]

Disney is likely going to charge SLIGHTLY more than Genie+ to start (I predict around $35-$40) and it will slowly inch higher and higher (similar to how Genie+ started low but ended up with days that cost $35)

 

[HyperspaceMountainPilot]

Disney is likely going to charge SLIGHTLY more than Genie+ to start (I predict around $35-$40) and it will slowly inch higher and higher (similar to how Genie+ started low but ended up with days that cost $35)

I’ve given this some thought, and I was thinking that it would be better for guests if they made it more expensive but worked so well you could do all of the rides (in one park) in one day— you could alternate busy LLMP days and less expensive laid-back days, but I think Disney would rather charge half as much and have us feel like we need to be buying every day and spending more days in the parks to do everything we want.

 

[jason423]

I’ve given this some thought, and I was thinking that it would be better for guests if they made it more expensive but worked so well you could do all of the rides (in one park) in one day— you could alternate busy LLMP days and less expensive laid-back days, but I think Disney would rather charge half as much and have us feel like we need to be buying every day and spending more days in the parks to do everything we want.

I think from the standpoint of maximizing revenue charging less to ensure more people buy it for an entire stay is the way to go. My opinion is as long as its relatively functional (i.e. you are guaranteed either Frozen or Remy in Epcot if you prebook) you wont get the complaints that came with the Genie+ system where you felt you would get no value because the rides were all blocked off if you were not familiar with the system. As long as there are limited complaints they should be able to maximize the user base without issue even if its not the best possible product. I think this is also clearly on Disney's mind since now there is a clear advantage/distinction between a hotel guest and AP holder where the guest who comes once a year isnt competing with the more daily/weekly guest who knew how to best use the Genie+ system and made the Genie worthless for a lot of people.

 

[nalababybear]

I’ve given this some thought, and I was thinking that it would be better for guests if they made it more expensive but worked so well you could do all of the rides (in one park) in one day— you could alternate busy LLMP days and less expensive laid-back days, but I think Disney would rather charge half as much and have us feel like we need to be buying every day and spending more days in the parks to do everything we want.

I don't know. TDR appears to be experimenting with unlimited LL access passes and really liking the uncharge of $100+ per day of those passes.in their vacation packages.

I would be shocked if that's hasn't piqued d'amaro interest to offer similar hotel packages to differentiate Disney hotel bubble stays.

 

[TLSnell1981]

No doubt DAS and Genie+ changes are related. The timing does not look like coincidence. Improving many flaws of Genie+ couldn’t happen without first addressing high DAS usage.

What broke DAS in the end was the lack of limit for whom it was intended and how much it could be used. People have all sorts of issues in life. The all encompassing nature of DAS made it hard to distinguish where the cutoff for help was. The disparity between DAS and Genie+ just kept pushing more people into DAS and out of Genie+ and standby. The amount of reliance and expectations placed on DAS overwhelmed operations.

DAS became self-defeating. If uptake is only ever increasing, a point comes where it stops helping those who have it. I don’t think the only detriment was to selling Genie+. It came at the detriment of functionality to that product, to standby, and even some of its own users. How much negative impact to other groups is allowable before it’s OK to make changes. I think that time arrived.

I've used DAS for the past 15 years...May being my last visit. I know what a line is so I'm expecting to be denied. I'm able to ride 3-4 attractions daily.mThis ''vacation'' is becoming way too stressful and complicated. It appears my days at Disney have come to an end.

 

[sue and co]

I am so glad we made a last minute decision to go last year because the new system is not going to work for our family. I appreciate DAS had got overwhelmed and some (perhaps many) people that had it shouldn’t to the detriment of both those that really need it and other park guests. For those of us from the UK who have to book expensive flights etc. months in advance not knowing whether we will get a DAS or if not what is still available under the new FP+ at relatively short notice will be an issue. Given that the needs that qualify under the new system are permanent ones surely they could have found a way to do a one off detailed assessment, perhaps charged for, with eligibility confirmed for an extended period (say ten years) subject to an annual declaration that nothing has changed and a new photo supplied to stop abuse by the wrong person using it.

 

[TLSnell1981]

I am so glad we made a last minute decision to go last year because the new system is not going to work for our family. I appreciate DAS had got overwhelmed and some (perhaps many) people that had it shouldn’t to the detriment of both those that really need it and other park guests. For those of us from the UK who have to book expensive flights etc. months in advance not knowing whether we will get a DAS or if not what is still available under the new FP+ at relatively short notice will be an issue. Given that the needs that qualify under the new system are permanent ones surely they could have found a way to do a one off detailed assessment, perhaps charged for, with eligibility confirmed for an extended period (say ten years) subject to an annual declaration that nothing has changed and a new photo supplied to stop abuse by the wrong person using it.

I'm stateside and had to cancel fall break. This was tough for the kids especially since it was planned last winter. It will be an adjustment removing WDW from our regular family vacations. We've had four generations of trips to Disney.My condition is permanent and I can't make it work with the new system.

Disney was once a theme park. Much of the vacation was about the experience. Now that has been removed for the ones with disabilities other than cognitive challenges. Disney has slowly shifted over the years but I wasn't expecting the slide to be so steep. It's disappointing but not a total surprise.

 

[Nuclear Monkey]

I think from the standpoint of maximizing revenue charging less to ensure more people buy it for an entire stay is the way to go. My opinion is as long as its relatively functional (i.e. you are guaranteed either Frozen or Remy in Epcot if you prebook) you wont get the complaints that came with the Genie+ system where you felt you would get no value because the rides were all blocked off if you were not familiar with the system. As long as there are limited complaints they should be able to maximize the user base without issue even if its not the best possible product. I think this is also clearly on Disney's mind since now there is a clear advantage/distinction between a hotel guest and AP holder where the guest who comes once a year isnt competing with the more daily/weekly guest who knew how to best use the Genie+ system and made the Genie worthless for a lot of people.

Disney doesn’t want everyone to buy it, though. There needs to be an optimization between lightning lanes and standby lines (that fastpass+ was not achieving frankly). The real goal is to minimize line wait times for the non-repeat guest through this balancing act. As long as a guest is in line, they are not spending money on food or souvenirs. Those profits dwarf a one time $35 charge per guest.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I don't know. TDR appears to be experimenting with unlimited LL access passes and really liking the uncharge of $100+ per day of those passes.in their vacation packages.

I would be shocked if that's hasn't piqued d'amaro interest to offer similar hotel packages to differentiate Disney hotel bubble stays.

Paris has a sort of similar too but there are cultural differences at play too. Japanese do not mind standing in line at all. It's the tourists who do not want that. A 3 hour wait for Beauty and the Beast or lining up at 4 or 5am for a 9am park opening is nothing for the locals. A 90 min wait in line for just QS is fine. And TDL just got mobile ordering in limited venues. For the packages you're talking about only a specified amount were sold, at the same time as having these packages they removed happy entry benefit from Disney Sea for two of their hotels until further notice (and those two hotels were available for packages the longest) which in one way limited some guests from being in the Fantasy Springs area, there's also a large chunk of days that happy entry is unavailable to multiple resorts. The package I saw that we could have bought was a 3 day 2 night one where 2 days were Disney Sea but only 1 day was for the unlimited entry/re-entry to Fantasy Springs.

But WDW and DL and not in the same environment as Japan or Paris. I don't discount that a package could come around eventually that has LL in it but it would need to be formulated differently. In the States the regular park guests hates waiting in lines period and there's more interest in paying your way through it which can easily lead to too many users. Universal does include Unlimited EP in the top 3 hotels but they also have a limit to which hotels qualify and limit number of EP passes they sell to regular guests. I have little faith Disney would enact any sort of strict enough limiting, they don't seem to know how to. Other parks aren't as hesitant to put limitations down.

 

[OurBigTrip]

I'm stateside and had to cancel fall break. This was tough for the kids especially since it was planned last winter. It will be an adjustment removing WDW from our regular family vacations. We've had four generations of trips to Disney.My condition is permanent and I can't make it work with the new system.

Disney was once a theme park. Much of the vacation was about the experience. Now that has been removed for the ones with disabilities other than cognitive challenges. Disney has slowly shifted over the years but I wasn't expecting the slide to be so steep. It's disappointing but not a total surprise.

If you choose to believe that the "experience" has been removed for all disabled except those with cognitive challenges, that is certainly your right. Bottom line is that DAS was abused and overused, it was negatively impacting park operations, it had to change to reduce use, and - the biggest thing - accommodations are still available because the fact is, not everyone with a disability needs a DAS in order to experience the parks. You don't have to like it, but to say that only cognitive disabilities are being accommodated is simply untrue.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Now that has been removed for the ones with disabilities other than cognitive challenges.

There have been people who have not been granted DAS but who have cognitive disabilities.

Disney was once a theme park. Much of the vacation was about the experience.

I understand you're upset and a lot that is coming out in your comments in multiple threads, I can't directly relate to you but I can see that it's there. However, this one comment above doesn't make sense if you're upset about DAS. DAS was related to rides primarily (as I understand it it's still available to meet and greets).

Disney has much more to offer than just rides. Any one guest may go to Disney primarily for the rides (that's us!) but there are far more than that available at Disney. This doesn't mean you don't find value in Disney any longer, that's subjective and something anyone can reach at any given point, many posters over the years have reached their point long before you have.

 

[spewey]

These changes are a three-stage rocket.
First, increasing capacity in LL by significantly reducing DAS usage.
Second, adjusting Genie+ to Multi Pass LL.
And the final stage is optimizing the price point to find the best balance.
All of this clearly has one ultimate goal: profit maximization.

Thought I'd throw in here the consistent feedback that Disney appears to be releasing with the new system significantly fewer LL spots then under Genie+. This is based on the observation that the lanes themselves are consistently near-empty (basically walk right onto the ride) and that even mid-tier rides are selling out early in the day, which did not happen with Genie+.

I am one of those surprised by this, as I had assume LL capacity would indeed go UP with the changes, thinking Disney would release more spots, counting on fewer DAS users in line.

 

[hcortesis]

As long as a guest is in line, they are not spending money on food or souvenirs. Those profits dwarf a one time $35 charge per guest.

Not sure about that. People will still eat and people will still shop. $35 with very little cost to Disney isn't much different than a guest dropping $75-$100 on food and take home items. If Disney can encourage their guests to do both, then they have won.

 

[ShaneDJ]

I'm stateside and had to cancel fall break. This was tough for the kids especially since it was planned last winter.

It will be an adjustment removing WDW from our regular family vacations.

We've had four generations of trips to Disney.

Since you've been denied DAS, did you try using the "non-DAS" accommodations...even one time?

 

[Sparrow'sLady]

All of the blogs I have read are saying that availability of LLs are not any better with the new system and many attractions are hard to get. I do not see the change to DAS helping people who are getting Multipass.