The Conservative - Liberal Debate Thread

When the "new" conservative thread was started last fall, I was reading/posting on it. I think I quit around p 20 because it didn't feel like the "safe haven" that the OP had intended for it to be and I really didn't think it would last. I was just wondering the other day since it's still going if things had calmed down, and I was considering going back and trying to get caught up on it. Seeing this thread started makes me think it's the same old same. There are a couple of reasons I haven't visited the liberal thread. Most of the liberals I exchange posts with on other political threads have been quite civil towards me and I enjoy the discussions. I think debate is a good thing and so this could be a great thread, but I also think there are a few posters from both sides that are more interested in being on the defensive and seem to fall back on snarky replies. If they take over the thread, then I'll move on from this one also.
 
A "thoughtful response" is in the eye of the beholder. And if someone wants to C&P a joke, who are you to say he can't? That's my point. Just seems to me that you have some rules that you want others to abide by, and, especially on a 50/50 thread such as this is attempting to be, nobody should really start off by saying what should or should not happen. That's JMHO also. I don't want to start anything so I'll just drop it.

But is this really a joke? It looked pretty factual to me (bolding the factual parts):

A DAY IN THE LIFE OF JOE REPUBLICAN
Joe gets up at 6 a.m. and fills his coffeepot with water to prepare his morning coffee. The water is clean and good because some tree-hugging liberal fought for minimum water quality standards. With his first swallow of coffee, he takes his daily medication. His medications are safe to take because some stupid commie liberal fought to insure their safety and that they work as advertised. All but $10 of his medications are paid for by his employer's medical plan because some liberal union workers fought their employers for paid medical insurance - now Joe gets it too.

He prepares his morning breakfast, bacon and eggs. Joe's bacon is safe to eat because some girly-man liberal fought for laws to regulate the meat packing industry. (editorial comment - this hasn't been working too well lately......) In the morning shower, Joe reaches for his shampoo. His bottle is properly labeled with each ingredient and its amount in the total contents because some crybaby liberal fought for his right to know what he was putting on his body and how much it contained.

Joe dresses, walks outside and takes a deep breath. The air he breathes is clean because some environmentalist wacko liberal fought for laws to stop industries from polluting our air. He walks to the subway station for his government-subsidized ride to work. It saves him considerable money in parking and transportation fees because some fancy-pants liberal fought for affordable public transportation, which gives everyone the opportunity to be a contributor.

Joe begins his workday. He has a good job with excellent pay, medical benefits, retirement, paid holidays and vacation because some lazy liberal union members fought and died for these working standards. Joe's employer pays these standards because Joe's employer doesn't want his employees to call the union. If Joe is hurt on the job or becomes unemployed, he'll get a worker compensation or unemployment check because some stupid liberal didn't think he should lose his home because of his temporary misfortune.

It's noontime and Joe needs to make a bank deposit so he can pay some bills. Joe's deposit is federally insured by the FDIC because some godless liberal wanted to protect Joe's money from unscrupulous bankers who ruined the banking system before the Great Depression. Joe has to pay his Fannie Mae-underwritten mortgage and his below-market federal student loan because some elitist liberal decided that Joe and the government would be better off if he was educated and earned more money over his lifetime.

Joe is home from work. He plans to visit his father this evening at his farm home in the country. He gets in his car for the drive. His car is among the safest in the world because some America-hating liberal fought for car safety standards. He arrives at his boyhood home. His was the third generation to live in the house financed by Farmers' Home Administration because bankers didn't want to make rural loans. The house didn't have electricity until some big-government liberal stuck his nose where it didn't belong and demanded rural electrification. He is happy to see his father, who is now retired. His father lives on Social Security and a union pension because some wine-drinking, cheese-eating liberal made sure he could take care of himself so Joe wouldn't have to.

Joe gets back in his car for the ride home, and turns on a radio talk show. The radio host keeps saying that liberals are bad and conservatives are good. He doesn't mention that the beloved Republicans have fought against every protection and benefit Joe enjoys throughout his day. Joe agrees: "We don't need those big-government liberals ruining our lives! After all, I'm a self-made man who believes everyone should take care of themselves, just like I have."
 

Well, I will give you credit for sticking to your opinion and not being hypocritical about which side posts more on the other's thread etc. I also give you credit for being one of the few conservatives who has not fallen suddenly in love with Hillary.

For 16 years she was probably the most hated Liberal of them all from your side and now in the last month there is suddenly all this respect and admiration for her from your side. :confused3

Actually I am an Obama lover. I have thought very highly of him since his 2004 speech at the Democratic convention. I find him to be very inspirational and WISH that the Republicans had someone like him.

For some reason, I don't fear an Obama presidency whereas I do fear a Clinton one.

Mind you I am voting for McCain in the fall.
 
I have my own personal internal debate going on.

I wanna be a conservative, but the conservaives won't act like conseratives.:cool1:

My idea of conservatism has nothing to do with the abundance of social conservatism that is prevalent throughout the party. You can't speak of personal responsiibility and try to control the lives of others. You cannot separate church and state when you have leaders who publicly announnce they are getting their guidance from God.

You cannot get into a hundred years war - one where we attacked first and pretend that the trillions of dollars spent will not affect the infrastructure of this country. You can't go to war and just send Americans shopping - shopping for goods that were probably produced outside of this country because we have outsourced so many of our jobs. You cannot privatize alot of our military jobs and make it a financial windfall and think that folks will have an unbiased view of the war.

Many conservatives now seem to want to spend all of our money on the infrastructure of other countries while leaving many parts of our own sorely lacking.

Yes, I am not a social conservative, but aI think a real fiscal conservative would gice a rat's behaind about that issue. I think a real conservative would leave the social stuff -specifically gay issues - up to the person and they can take the consequences for their actions if they are judged harshly at the Pearly Gates.

A real conservative would understand Ikes words about the military industrial complex.

A real conservative would listen to real science and take a well educated view of issues of our day, not just lsten to only the people who support your point of view.

And last, but not least...

I cannot wrap my head around a real conservative spending money to give us a check to buy crap that was probably made in the country we are borrowing the money from. Just cannot figure that one out.
 
There were legitimate questions in that analysis of liberal policies, and you answer with a bad cliche joke?

Many (most) liberal policies DO invovle the redistribution of wealth...why not just say yes thats what we believe is the right course of action in the interest of public policy/the common good/ whatever you want to use to defend it and be done with it.

As Eclectics correctly noted earlier, it's all in the mind of the beholder. I never used that thinking it's a joke, I've used it as a fable that illustrates the mindset of many out there.

After all, as the bolded part notes; Republicans fought every standard illustrated on that post.

As Shakespeare once noted; Methinks the lady doth protest too much.
 
I cannot wrap my head around a real conservative spending money to give us a check to buy crap that was probably made in the country we are borrowing the money from. Just cannot figure that one out.

That is such a good point! I had not seen it put like that before........

Unfortunately my refund will go to the credit card companies........

So I won't be stimulating the economy too much......
 
Re: Joe Republican

My feeling is that all of the "hi-lighted" benefits of the liberal policies eventually would have come into existence without Gov intervention. Market forces are a much stronger agent of change than Gov regulation.

There are downsides to every "accomplishment" that is listed in that story.
 
Well, a lot of the pundits (on both sides) are saying, in order to compete with Obama for the Indie votes (which he will definitely need to win in Nov.), he's going to have to pick a moderate running mate, not a Conservative. Let's see how well that one goes over. ;)

its not gonna happen.

I'm not psychic, but McCain will go to the "right" with his running mate

Fearless prediction by StrollPatrolMom 3/2/08 at 1:30pm
 
You telling others how they should post might be one of the many reasons this format probably isn't going to work imho, although I applaud the OP for trying.

Innacruate spin, but you get credit for trying!
 
A "thoughtful response" is in the eye of the beholder. And if someone wants to C&P a joke, who are you to say he can't? That's my point. Just seems to me that you have some rules that you want others to abide by, and, especially on a 50/50 thread such as this is attempting to be, nobody should really start off by saying what should or should not happen. That's JMHO also. I don't want to start anything so I'll just drop it.

She never said he couldn't, didn't chastise him for it.

She critiqued his doing so. Part of debate, no?
 
its not gonna happen.

I'm not psychic, but McCain will go to the "right" with his running mate

Fearless prediction by StrollPatrolMom 3/2/08 at 1:30pm



Oh, I agree with you. He will most likely pick a Conservative. And by doing so, he will alienate more Indie voters than he will gain more Conservate voters, imho. We'll see, I suppose.
 
She never said he couldn't, didn't chastise him for it.

She critiqued his doing so. Part of debate, no?

I was going to go there...but I just walked away.

Just call me Josephine Republican :rotfl:
 
For the record, you and I will never agree politically on virtually anything, but this is a great idea that's long overdue. My compliments.

(Of course, this thread has a life expectancy of 18 hours/4 pages (whichever comes first) but that's another story...)

In my best John McLaughlin voice - WRONG!!!! (Patty Patty Buke Buke)

I don't see why this thread NEEDS to be closed. If people keep the arguments civil it should work.
 
Oh, I agree with you. He will most likely pick a Conservative. And by doing so, he will alienate more Indie voters than he will gain more Conservate voters, imho. We'll see, I suppose.

I doubt it...Obama and Hillary are further left than McCain is right.

He'd have to pick Pat Robertson to jerk the ticket as far right as an Obama/insert any Democrat here would be left.

I think experience is going to be the main issue.

StrollPatrolMom fearlesss Election 08 prediction #2
 
Actually I am an Obama lover. I have thought very highly of him since his 2004 speech at the Democratic convention. I find him to be very inspirational and WISH that the Republicans had someone like him.

For some reason, I don't fear an Obama presidency whereas I do fear a Clinton one.

Mind you I am voting for McCain in the fall.

Exactly. Regardless of the position of the two dems, Obama has things Clinton has no hope of ever achieving, respect and likeability.

She inspires nothing but division.
 





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