The Conservative - Liberal Debate Thread

[Laura]

So I would ask you. Name a liberal idea that doesn't require a redistribution of wealth?

Well, you listed abortion rights--that's one. Gay marriage is another. The environment, civil rights, pulling out of Iraq, etc.

But I think without government programs, some people's lives would seriously get worse. If we didn't have as many taxes, I don't think people would give that money to charity instead.

I guess you're not an Obama supporter then...
"The Democratic presidential candidate told a town hall meeting Sunday in Nelsonvile, Ohio, in the state's rural southeast, that he is a devout Christian who prays to Jesus every night"

Big difference between praying to God and having God talk back.

 

["Got Disney"]

I have no time to read this thread yet...have to food shopping

and

well not really scuba diving but it sounds more fun than this so look forward to reading and hope that it is not closed down when I get back. I am guessing that it is a DEM vs REP issues....

And as OP in this thread mentioned...I never agree with devj EVER...but like the idea of this thread if it can be kept under all getting points

 

[StrollPatrolMom]

Esxuse me, you don't think there is a huge monster difference bewtween someone proclaiming their faith, and this???

whaaa? how is annoucing you are a "devout" Christian and you pray to Jesus EVERY night, not a proclamation exactly like one you described as being a violation of church and state

" You cannot separate church and state when you have leaders who publicly announnce they are getting their guidance from God."

 

[StrollPatrolMom]

How dare you tell someone what they are and aren't. Who are you to proclaim conclusions you've come to about someone else?

um, based on his own credentials he set forth in his post about judging a politician based on his public belief in God

"You cannot separate church and state when you have leaders who publicly announnce they are getting their guidance from God."

thats exactly what Obama did in his speech today....

 

[DisneyJosh]

whaaa? how is annoucing you are a "devout" Christian and you pray to Jesus EVERY night, not a proclamation exactly like one you described as being a violation of church and state

" You cannot separate church and state when you have leaders who publicly announnce they are getting their guidance from God."

You know exactly what she(?) meant, you're just trying to stir the pot and get people all riled up. Nice try!

um, based on his own credentials he set forth in his post about judging a politician based on his public belief in God

"You cannot separate church and state when you have leaders who publicly announnce they are getting their guidance from God."

thats exactly what Obama did in his speech today....

How in the world does that have anything to do with judging someone based on false assumptions? The bottom line is that you made an ill-informed conclusion about someone's beliefs/political views based on a statement that you failed to comprehend.

 

[yeartolate]

Big difference between praying to God and having God talk back.

No kidding. It is that very distinction - the lack of understanding of this concept that scares me deeply. What else is God going to tell him to do next?And why do many Americans accept this from our commander in chief?

God told me not to pay my taxes. Cool. More pocket change. That was easy.

 

[StrollPatrolMom]

You know exactly what she(?) meant, you're just trying to stir the pot and get people all riled up. Nice try!


How in the world does that have anything to do with judging someone based on false assumptions?

what in God's name are you talking about???

My assumption is not false at all, based on the credentials in the post in terms of why being a "conservative" is problematic, I'm simply pointing out based on THOSE standards, that Obama just TODAY made comments in violation of that principle....

again

" You cannot separate church and state when you have leaders who publicly announnce they are getting their guidance from God." and from Obama
here's some gems...

"Sometimes this is a difficult road being in politics. Sometimes you can become fearful, sometimes you can become vain, sometimes you can seek power just for power’s sake instead of because you want to do service to God. I just want all of you to pray that I can be an instrument of God in the same way that Pastor Ron and all of you are instruments of God . . . We’re going to keep on praising together. I am confident that we can create a Kingdom right here on Earth" OBAMA

and today in Ohio see the quote above...

simple as that, not pot stirring, just facts...

 

[Laura]

No kidding. It is that very distinction - the lack of understanding of this concept that scares me deeply. What else is God going to tell him to do next?And why do many Americans accept this from our commander in chief?

God told me not to pay my taxes. Cool. More pocket change. That was easy.

God just told me to rob a bank. Neato!

 

[StrollPatrolMom]

No kidding. It is that very distinction - the lack of understanding of this concept that scares me deeply. What else is God going to tell him to do next?And why do many Americans accept this from our commander in chief?

God told me not to pay my taxes. Cool. More pocket change. That was easy.

If you can fool yourself into believing that a "devout" Christian who "prays to Jesus ever night" isn't doing so for the purpose of guidance, thats ludicrous....otherwise if Obama wanted to "talk" to someone he could go see a counselor.

 

[yeartolate]

But GOd does not tell him to go to war. He is talking about faith guiding him. No words to the ear accepting instruction. Very important distinction.

 

[Laura]

what in God's name are you talking about???

My assumption is not false at all, based on the credentials in the post in terms of why being a "conservative" is problematic, I'm simply pointing out based on THOSE standards, that Obama just TODAY made comments in violation of that principle....

again

" You cannot separate church and state when you have leaders who publicly announnce they are getting their guidance from God." and from Obama
here's some gems...

"Sometimes this is a difficult road being in politics. Sometimes you can become fearful, sometimes you can become vain, sometimes you can seek power just for power’s sake instead of because you want to do service to God. I just want all of you to pray that I can be an instrument of God in the same way that Pastor Ron and all of you are instruments of God . . . We’re going to keep on praising together. I am confident that we can create a Kingdom right here on Earth" OBAMA

and today in Ohio see the quote above...

simple as that, not pot stirring, just facts...

Obama is not saying that God talks to him. Simple as that.

 

[StrollPatrolMom]

God just told me to rob a bank. Neato!

the fact you are poking fun of this shows a fundamental lack of understand of Obama's"devout" Christian faith...

 

[TCPluto]

How dare you tell someone what they are and aren't. Who are you to proclaim conclusions you've come to about someone else?

You equate this statement with telling someone what they are/aren't???

Originally Posted by StrollPatrolMom:
I guess you're not an Obama supporter then...

That would appear to be a stretch on your part. It looks like she's drawn a parallel which needs to be considered towards making a conclusion, nothing more.

 

[DisneyJosh]

what in God's name are you talking about???

My assumption is not false at all, based on the credentials in the post in terms of why being a "conservative" is problematic, I'm simply pointing out based on THOSE standards, that Obama just TODAY made comments in violation of that principle....

again

" You cannot separate church and state when you have leaders who publicly announnce they are getting their guidance from God." and from Obama
here's some gems...

"Sometimes this is a difficult road being in politics. Sometimes you can become fearful, sometimes you can become vain, sometimes you can seek power just for power’s sake instead of because you want to do service to God. I just want all of you to pray that I can be an instrument of God in the same way that Pastor Ron and all of you are instruments of God . . . We’re going to keep on praising together. I am confident that we can create a Kingdom right here on Earth" OBAMA

and today in Ohio see the quote above...

simple as that, not pot stirring, just facts...

Like others have said, there is a big difference in believing in God and professing that you base all of your decisions on what he "tells" you to do.

You know what you are doing - you're pushing your agenda and trying to incite a fight. It's obvious.

 

[yeartolate]

the fact you are poking fun of this shows a fundamental lack of understand of Obama's"devout" Christian faith...

NO!

She is poking fun at OUR PRESIDENT. Poking fun at our commander in chief sayiing that God told him to go to war.

Do you REALLY think GOd told him that?

 

[Laura]

the fact you are poking fun of this shows a fundamental lack of understand of Obama's"devout" Christian faith...

If God's talking to you, you're a prophet or a saint. Bush has shown himself to be neither. I think that little voice telling him to invade Iraq was Cheney, not God.

And I seem to understand Christianity better than many Christians do.

 

[StrollPatrolMom]

Like others have said, there is a big difference in believing in God and professing that you base all of your decisions on what he "tells" you to do.

You know what you are doing - you're pushing your agenda and trying to incite a fight. It's obvious.

"my agenda" yes anyone who is interested can PM me for the StrollPatrolMom takes over the world club admission process....

oh back to the nonsense at hand, anyone who is suggested that Obama being a "devout" Christian and "praying to Jesus" every night is not a public proclamation of his Faith AND an indication he turns to God for guidance...is seriously needing a religion 101 class.

 

[TCPluto]

Esxuse me, you don't think there is a huge monster difference bewtween someone proclaiming their faith, and this???

Quote:
In the programmeElusive Peace: Israel and the Arabs, which starts on Monday, the former Palestinian foreign minister Nabil Shaath says Mr Bush told him and Mahmoud Abbas, former prime minister and now Palestinian President: "I'm driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, 'George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan.' And I did, and then God would tell me, 'George go and end the tyranny in Iraq,' and I did."

If you don't, you may have proven my point.

I don't think I would be taking his word for gospel (no pun intended). Might have been a bit of paraphrasing going on, and/or a liberal does of editing. Or, none of it was true.

 

[DisneyJosh]

You equate this statement with telling someone what they are/aren't???

Originally Posted by StrollPatrolMom:
I guess you're not an Obama supporter then...

That would appear to be a stretch on your part. It looks like she's drawn a parallel which needs to be considered towards making a conclusion, nothing more.

So, if someone "guess[es]" something, it is not an assumption? Her assumption was that said poster was not an Obama supporter based on an earlier post that was completely misunderstood, as evidenced in said post and subsequent posts by the same user.

So, according to you, if you are "guess[ing]" something about someone, you are not telling the person you are addressing what they are and are not. Yeah, O.K. Your intentions are very transparent.

 

[StrollPatrolMom]

NO!

She is poking fun at OUR PRESIDENT. Poking fun at our commander in chief sayiing that God told him to go to war.

Do you REALLY think GOd told him that?

again, lack of understand about faith is going on here....you draw you own conclusions based on the introspection acheived during prayer based on your religous teachings...