The Conservative - Liberal Debate Thread

[yeartolate]

I've noticed that too. The fact is that I do not know anyone personally who is in a financial crisis right now. Fortunately, all of my friends and family are doing well. I am not at all questioning others when they say that they are struggling. But when I posted that in "my part of the world" people are doing well, I was asked what planet I live on.

If liberals are calling you a liar for saying everyone in your experience is doing well, that is wrong. But are they calling you a liar, or saying their experience is different? I would like to have pointed out to me where someone called you a liar for a varied experience.

 

[crazyforgoofy]

I'm going to try to state this in the nicest way possible. You really come off so high and mighty in your posting sometimes. Such as the post where you said you and your husband work which tends to allude that others don't, which is simply not true.

I think you tend to be presumptious with your ideas and postings which tends to lend others towards sarcasm as a way to respond. I notice that you have tried to tone it down or come toward a middle ground but in case you wonder why some come off as being smart towards you this is the reason.

Honestly I read this post quoted and the one above and wanted to go big whoppty doo that you and your husband work and things are going great. I know lots and lots of people that work their asses off and still can't make ends meet. Hell, there are lots of deployed people that work 16-20 hours a day and their families still have a hard time.

I'm not trying to call you out or be ugly towards you, I simply want you to think about the wording of your posting because the way it is now you aren't going to get a good conversation or debate. Your' just going to get alot of sarcasm.

Tina, my dear. What a wonderful post.

 

[Charade]

Glad you both were able to have gainful employment. Used to be a family could live on one 40 hour a week salary in this country. Shame it's no longer the case. My neighbor's son told me even the local McDonalds here has a waiting list. My cousin (in a large city) just got the axe recently and will loose his cobra coverage for his family soon. He's gone on countless fruitless interviews. They keep telling him they have more applicants than positions. With a coming recession to make things worse, seems to me the "stay the course" mentality we've had for 7 years is about due for a great big shakeup.

Soup lines blocks long?

There are quite a few businesses around here with "Help Wanted" signs out. Maybe those people need to move to where the jobs are? It's kinda like the Nomads that roam the desert. They're always searching for food and water. Maybe they should move OUT of the desert to where the food and water is more plentiful.

 

[TCPluto]

Stop being hyperbolic. Nobody called anybody a liar.

However, about UHC, a while back the Canadians on the Dis started their own thread on their board because of all the untrue things being said about the health care system over on this board. About 99% were quite happy and would not trade it for what we have. I"ll take their first person opinions about UHC over the "friend of a friend" opinions posted by conservatives here.

That's the knife cutting both ways. Like when the various libs insisit President Bush had a literal "sit down and chit chat" with God.

Canadian UHC. A realtive moved to Cananda several years ago. Got sick (2003), had trouble with delays in scheduling analysis and ultimately treatment. For the cancer that killed her 10 months later. Everyone agrees the outcome was the result of the troubled system that prevented timely diagnosis and treatment . This is a common problem with UHC.

 

[Charade]

duplicate post...

 

[crazyforgoofy]

There are quite a few businesses around here with "Help Wanted" signs out. Maybe those people need to move to where the jobs are? It's kinda like the Nomads that roam the desert. They're always searching for food and water. Maybe they should move OUT of the desert to where the food and water is more plentiful.

Yep, just like the Okies heading for paradise with their mattresses tied to the top of their cars. That'll work.

 

[Charade]

Here's the President clearly stating with no ambuguity whatsoever that "God is on our side" at the end of his speech to the American people right after 9/11.

Who's side would you prefer He be on? If you believe in that sort of thing.

Now, where did he get the idea for this if he didn't think that a God spoke to him?

I dunno, Roosevelt? Past leaders? The Bible?

 

[Charade]

Yep, just like the Okies heading for paradise with their mattresses tied to the top of their cars. That'll work.

If you lived in a "dead" town or area, would you move or would you want to be on the government dole until better times found their way back (if even possible) into town?

 

[dejr_8]

Universal Health Care

"As Americans debated expanding government involvement in health care, Britain's National Health Service told Olive Beal she would have to wait 18 months to get her hearing aid. She is 108."

http://www.newsweek.com/id/81587 - George Will Column

 

[eclectics]

This is where we differ. You believe the Gov should take even more of our money to give to someone else.

I think we should cut taxes, reduce gov and spending so that a family can get by on a single 40hr/week job.

Remember the Gov takes nearly 50% of what you make - that's why you need 2 jobs.

I don't make enough for them to take 50%, I was always against NAFTA, and I applaud Welfare Reform. Nobody deserves a check for doing nothing. Cutting taxes and reducing govt. spending will do squat against astronomical healthcare costs, rising energy prices, and unemployment. There. I think that just about covers it. Oh, and thank you Tina.

 

[chobie]

That's the knife cutting both ways. Like when the various libs insisit President Bush had a literal "sit down and chit chat" with God.

Canadian UHC. A realtive moved to Cananda several years ago. Got sick (2003), had trouble with delays in scheduling analysis and ultimately treatment. For the cancer that killed her 10 months later. Everyone agrees the outcome was the result of the troubled system that prevented timely diagnosis and treatment . This is a common problem with UHC.

Again, I'll take the opinions of people speaking for themselves such as those Canadians that posted here.

 

[Charade]

I'm going to try to state this in the nicest way possible. You really come off so high and mighty in your posting sometimes. Such as the post where you said you and your husband work which tends to allude that others don't, which is simply not true.

I think you tend to be presumptious with your ideas and postings which tends to lend others towards sarcasm as a way to respond. I notice that you have tried to tone it down or come toward a middle ground but in case you wonder why some come off as being smart towards you this is the reason.

Honestly I read this post quoted and the one above and wanted to go big whoppty doo that you and your husband work and things are going great. I know lots and lots of people that work their asses off and still can't make ends meet. Hell, there are lots of deployed people that work 16-20 hours a day and their families still have a hard time.

I'm not trying to call you out or be ugly towards you, I simply want you to think about the wording of your posting because the way it is now you aren't going to get a good conversation or debate. Your' just going to get alot of sarcasm.

Perhaps you missed the last sentence of the post you just quoted. Personally, I didn't read anything into her posts that you did.

 

[dejr_8]

I don't make enough for them to take 50%, I was always against NAFTA, and I applaud Welfare Reform. Nobody deserves a check for doing nothing. Cutting taxes and reducing govt. spending will do squat against astronomical healthcare costs, rising energy prices, and unemployment. There. I think that just about covers it. Oh, and thank you Tina.

Start adding up all the taxes you pay and you will be amazed how close to the 50% mark you get. - Look at the gas pump, read your phone bill, sales taxes, fees, etc, it all adds up. Don't forget that you pay 15.3% taxes to social security (you pay 1/2 and your employer pays 1/2 that you never even see)

Why is NAFTA not "Fair World Trade"?

 

[crazyforgoofy]

If you lived in a "dead" town or area, would you move or would you want to be on the government dole until better times found their way back (if even possible) into town?

Me personally? I left my big city, big money job and moved here to care for my elderly mum and my disabled veteran husband at the same time. Along the way I adopted a beautiful special needs child and began a 'second generation family'. I have plenty of work, thanks. And if you consider that we live on savings, investments, Social Security Disability,Veterans Disability and Social Security Survivors benefits then I guess we pretty much already live on the government dole. So, as much as I'd like to live in a less conservative and much less fundamentally religious area its just not going to happen. I'm not moving in the near future. But thanks for asking anyway.

 

[Charade]

I don't make enough for them to take 50%,

I think he means total taxes, not just income. Add it all up and it's quite a bit. 50 percent? Might be close to that for a lot of people.

 

[StrollPatrolMom]

I don't make enough for them to take 50%, I was always against NAFTA, and I applaud Welfare Reform. Nobody deserves a check for doing nothing. Cutting taxes and reducing govt. spending will do squat against astronomical healthcare costs, rising energy prices, and unemployment. There. I think that just about covers it. Oh, and thank you Tina.

of course it will. Cutting taxes
a) increases revenues to the federal government
b) encourages businesses to reinvest and creates more jobs

I'm actually in the camp that healthcare costs are never going to be under control unless we address the real issues that cause the high costs. 75% of healthcare dollars are spent on the top 3 largely preventable diseases in this country...we are the #1 nation of obese people

 

[eclectics]

Start adding up all the taxes you pay and you will be amazed how close to the 50% mark you get. - Look at the gas pump, read your phone bill, sales taxes, fees, etc, it all adds up. Don't forget that you pay 15.3% taxes to social security (you pay 1/2 and your employer pays 1/2 that you never even see)

Why is NAFTA not "Fair World Trade"?

State taxes vary from state to state and I assumed you meant taxes on income. My bad. And in a nutshell, NAFTA is unfairly biased towards Mexico and to Canada to a lesser extent. And our world trade policy is also lopsided. China is making out like a bandit, on many levels.

 

[Charade]

Me personally? I left my big city, big money job and moved here to care for my elderly mum and my disabled veteran husband at the same time. Along the way I adopted a beautiful special needs child and began a 'second generation family'. I have plenty of work, thanks. And if you consider that we live on savings, investments, Social Security Disability,Veterans Disability and Social Security Survivors benefits then I guess we pretty much already live on the government dole. So, as much as I'd like to live in a less conservative and much less fundamentally religious area its just not going to happen. I'm not moving in the near future. But thanks for asking anyway.

IOW, you did what you had to do that was right for you situation.

And do conservatives and fundies really interfere with your life in such a significant way that you're uncomfortable living in their midst?

 

[TCPluto]

Again, I'll take the opinions of people speaking for themselves such as those Canadians that posted here.

Because Im american, my realtives negative expeience with the system is of no value??? Gotcha!

 

[dejr_8]

I think he means total taxes, not just income. Add it all up and it's quite a bit. 50 percent? Might be close to that for a lot of people.

Anyone that is self employed believes the 50% without question.

For every dollar I make I have to put 40% away for taxes (fed, state and SS). Then I still have to pay sales tax, gas tax, property tax, gov fees, etc.