The Case Against College Education

[PeterPan09]

I hate the fact that people who don't go to college are ruled out for many jobs, even if a college degree wouldn't help them in that job.

ITA. My last company wouldn't even look at you if you didn't have a college degree and frankly, there was no reason why a HS graduate couldn't do many of the jobs we had.

I went away to school-primiarly because I was an only child and felt I really needed to get away from Mom and Dad for a while. It was good for me, I met some wonderful people and had great experiences-but I do not see why everyone should be expected to do it.

 

[kpm76]

True, but people going to Brown (ivy) and Duke (not ivy) are not the types of students who should not be in college in the first place. I think it is more the uninterested and marginal students in lower tier schools that take out huge loans with no prospects of ever making enough money to cover them that is the true issue.

I agree 100%. And we all know that there are plenty of private schools with hefty price tags that attract kids from wealthy families who want their kids to have a "private" education. These kids are marginal students and the quality of their education is certainly not superior to that of a state school.

My point was that there is far more to an Ivy League education than just a big price tag. My husband received an excellent education and the opportunities that have come his way because of his education are priceless. It's not for everyone, but the poster I was responding to insinuated that an Ivy League education is not "worth" it. That simply is not true for everyone.

 

[chisnpeke]

I agree 100%. And we all know that there are plenty of private schools with hefty price tags that attract kids from wealthy families who want their kids to have a "private" education. These kids are marginal students and the quality of their education is certainly not superior to that of a state school.

My point was that there is far more to an Ivy League education than just a big price tag. My husband received an excellent education and the opportunities that have come his way because of his education are priceless. It's not for everyone, but the poster I was responding to insinuated that an Ivy League education is not "worth" it. That simply is not true for everyone.

It's not that I really feel that it's not worth it, because worth is subjective. Some things that I spend money on would not be worth it to other people and vice versa. I'm sure there are plenty of people who feel a $3,000 trip to WDW is not worth it. But for me, there isn't a comparable experience to that so I paid it. For private schools, I feel there is a comparable experience at state schools. Even if the difference wasn't really comparable, the huge difference in price wouldn't make it worth it for ME, especially when I feel that I could get experiences with other cultures through traveling, which is something that I enjoy. I just see it as I could take five overseas trip for the price of one year at an Ivy league school. Those trips would give me so much more education than any university ever could.

 

[kpm76]

It's not that I really feel that it's not worth it, because worth is subjective. Some things that I spend money on would not be worth it to other people and vice versa. I'm sure there are plenty of people who feel a $3,000 trip to WDW is not worth it. But for me, there isn't a comparable experience to that so I paid it. For private schools, I feel there is a comparable experience at state schools. Even if the difference wasn't really comparable, the huge difference in price wouldn't make it worth it for ME, especially when I feel that I could get experiences with other cultures through traveling, which is something that I enjoy. I just see it as I could take five overseas trip for the price of one year at an Ivy league school. Those trips would give me so much more education than any university ever could.

That makes sense. And you are correct; worth is subjective. Money wasn't an issue in my husband's case (lucky him!!) and his parents were able to pay for college entirely so it wasn't as though he was weighing his options based on finances. For those that have to consider finances, I can definitely see making a more economically wise decision. For better or worse though, an Ivy League degree is often a ticket and opportunities come your way because of it. I'm not saying this is right in all cases (though I do think my DH is very bight and has earned his place in his career but it is a reality so it's something to be aware of when in the job market.......

 

[gina2000]

There are tons of universities that are teaching remedial high school skills to students who did not master them in high school. That sort of college experience is the type that is not valuable, in my opinion. It's catering to the student who wants to go to college without understanding the level of commitment true learning warrents.

Ivies and top notch universities are worth every penny. The experience is totally different and the post grad opportunities are well worth the debt. Also note that Ivies, in particular, have hugh endowment funds. Most students going to Ivies receive financial aid, some of it quite extensive.

 

[Christine]

I work in a job that does not need a college degree; however, if you were 25 years old and trying to get my job, you would have to have a degree just for you to get your foot in the door. The worst part is that NOTHING you learned in college would ever prepare you to do this job. You wouldn't have a leg up on the kid who just got out of high school (except for maturity, let's hope). Everything you would need to know would require you to have on the job training and specialized training classes provided by the employer.

It's really a shame because many of the college grads we get have a TERRIBLE work ethic while some HS grads are hard workers (which is what we need).

 

[castleview]

There are tons of universities that are teaching remedial high school skills to students who did not master them in high school. That sort of college experience is the type that is not valuable, in my opinion. It's catering to the student who wants to go to college without understanding the level of commitment true learning warrents.

Ivies and top notch universities are worth every penny. The experience is totally different and the post grad opportunities are well worth the debt. Also note that Ivies, in particular, have hugh endowment funds. Most students going to Ivies receive financial aid, some of it quite extensive.

Tell that to my parents! My sister's Ivy league education strapped them quite a bit. While my sister has done ok professionally (when she feels like it), she also acquired some high expectations and an entitled attitude while there. Of course that doesn't happen to every Ivy league student nor does it NOT happen at state schools. It's what you make of it. And yes there are companies/bosses that will only higher people if they have an Ivy league degree. That was a tough pill to swallow for me at first, but now I'm old enough to realize that I wouldn't want to work for anyone who thinks like that.

 

[Quiksilvr]

I have several degrees. My flashiest is a JD from a highly ranked law school. I wanted to be a lawyer (for some strange reason), so going to law school was something I had to do to enter the profession. I went to an expensive, flashy school because I wanted a good job.

Debt-wise, I'm in a good place. I have no debt from college (full scholarship) and below-average debt from my other degrees. That said, I know a ton of people who went to college and law school on borrowed money, and who have never been able to get a job that would pay enough to pay back the debt. A lot of these people bought what law schools were selling, i.e., that if they came and worked for three years to get a JD, they'd be on financial easy street. That's just not how it works anymore. But, I see that applications are up at law schools across the nation, so it appears that no one has figured this out.

I have a number of friends from high school who went into trades and who do well for themselves. They work fewer hours than me and have a higher quality of life. I make a lot more money than they do, but money isn't necessarily everything. I think the key is to teach kids a work ethic, irrespective of whether they spend their time working on a vocation that requires a degree, or one that does not. If they're willing to work hard, they'll be fine.

 

[castleview]

That said, I know a ton of people who went to college and law school on borrowed money, and who have never been able to get a job that would pay enough to pay back the debt. A lot of these people bought what law schools were selling, i.e., that if they came and worked for three years to get a JD, they'd be on financial easy street. That's just not how it works anymore. But, I see that applications are up at law schools across the nation, so it appears that no one has figured this out.

.

I graduated in the early 90s. Tons of people I know were going to law school because they didn't feel like settling down and finding a job.

 

[chisnpeke]

That makes sense. And you are correct; worth is subjective. Money wasn't an issue in my husband's case (lucky him!!) and his parents were able to pay for college entirely so it wasn't as though he was weighing his options based on finances. For those that have to consider finances, I can definitely see making a more economically wise decision. For better or worse though, an Ivy League degree is often a ticket and opportunities come your way because of it. I'm not saying this is right in all cases (though I do think my DH is very bight and has earned his place in his career but it is a reality so it's something to be aware of when in the job market.......

Absolutely an Ivy League degree is a ticket. When people see that name they take notice. I think most people who go to Ivy League schools come from families that can afford to send them there, so it isn't really a problem for them financially. Even if my family was able to send me to a school that expensive and I had worked hard to earn going there, I don't think I could justify the cost because the whole time I would be thinking of what experiences I could get from money other than an education, an education that I could get for much less money elsewhere.

The sad thing is kids who don't go to Ivy League but go to expensive private schools and are often going because of the name. My friend is a nursing student, nurses are in demand yet she chose to go to a school that claims to have a "name" with hospitals in the Louisville area. No one from my area (Cincinnati) has heard of this small school. She is going to end up with $30,000 in debt because her parents gave her what they saved up for her college and that's it. She admitted she's going due to the name of the school and what that carries with hospitals in Louisville. Makes no sense to me though because I think if you get a nursing degree you're going to get a job pretty much no matter what. That is worth it to her though so if that is what she wants to do I can't and won't say anything. Just like she won't say anything to me about what I spend my money on.

 

[kpm76]

There are tons of universities that are teaching remedial high school skills to students who did not master them in high school. That sort of college experience is the type that is not valuable, in my opinion. It's catering to the student who wants to go to college without understanding the level of commitment true learning warrents.

Ivies and top notch universities are worth every penny. The experience is totally different and the post grad opportunities are well worth the debt. Also note that Ivies, in particular, have hugh endowment funds. Most students going to Ivies receive financial aid, some of it quite extensive.

If you are accepted to an Ivy they will do all they can to make it work financially because they really want you........at Brown, tuition is $38,000, Room & Board is $14,000 and the average financial aid package is $30,000 while the average scholarship grant is $30,000......FYI, Brown received over 30,000 applications this year, approx. 2,000 were accepted and about 1,000 will enroll. The point is, if you make it though the rigorous screening process and receive an acceptance letter, they will work with you on making it happen financially, and they have the means to do so.

 

[punkin]

I went to my non-ivy school because of its reputation (I guess that means, because of the "NAME") and in certain circles that name carries more weight than that of most ivies. I know I got my first professional job because of the name: my boss told me.

 

[allison443]

Like I said, the quality at private schools is in all probability better than at state schools.

That is a generalization with which I strongly disagree. I would rank many flagship state universities far above the numerous 3rd and 4th tier private colleges any day.

 

[frndshpcptn]

In my field, a degree is a "must have" - but I know for a fact that got my first job upon graduation because of my Disney College Program internship (boss told me that after I was hired - they were impressed with the skill set I learned while working in Orlando). I work in PR - so not even in the travel / tourism business.

I had the required degree - but even that is not nearly enough to get you noticed and in the door - you need the additional internship experience to really get anywhere in my field.

 

[frndshpcptn]

That is a generalization with which I strongly disagree. I would rank many flagship state universities far above the numerous 3rd and 4th tier private colleges any day.

I agree - my state school (Maryland) has some pretty outstanding programs and (I think) has done a good job of shedding it's party school image.

 

[FireDancer]

In my field, a degree is a "must have" - but I know for a fact that got my first job upon graduation because of my Disney College Program internship (boss told me that after I was hired - they were impressed with the skill set I learned while working in Orlando). I work in PR - so not even in the travel / tourism business.

I had the required degree - but even that is not nearly enough to get you noticed and in the door - you need the additional internship experience to really get anywhere in my field.

I didn't realize getting a job in Puerto Rico was so hard

 

[castleview]

I didn't realize getting a job in Puerto Rico was so hard

Wow! Did you pick up that wit in college?

 

[allison443]

I agree - my state school (Maryland) has some pretty outstanding programs and (I think) has done a good job of shedding it's party school image.

Maryland has an excellent reputation outside your state and it is not easy to get into (especially the honors program).

 

[castleview]

I agree - my state school (Maryland) has some pretty outstanding programs and (I think) has done a good job of shedding it's party school image.

I've accepted that all schools are party schools if you wish them to be.

 

[FireDancer]

Wow! Did you pick up that wit in college?

Yes I did, along with the nit that often goes with it.