The bus...

[brunette8706]

And, just to be clear, I am not, AT ALL, offended if you offer me your seat. I would sincerely thank you (and mean it). I would just expect that your respect my choice to remain standing.

*YOU = general you.

*
Hi! I see what you are saying, and from "your" previous posts, my instinct is that you seem like a nice person. For instance you stated that you would give up your seat (even though you do have a condition), this is extremely considerate of you. (This is not your verbaitam wording). But if someone stared you down you would not. Yes, if you ask politely that's one thing, but if you demand, well, then, that's different, and it usually doens't work with me and or others.

As far as PirateJeff, I think he was just stating that he would give a woman a seat not because they are inferior, to the contrare, but just as a kind gesture. I don't think he would consider you a "bad" person if you decline. Of course this is just my opinion. But, as I said earlier you do make some valid points.

Brunette

 

[KSDisneyDad]

*
WOW! I'm at a loss for words!

Me too. I didn't reply to that one initially because honestly I had no words for it. That someone feels that way is one thing. But to feel ok putting that in writing is even worse.

I frequently feel that the world is headed in the wrong direction and I wonder how it got that way. Then I sit down and read one of these threads and it becomes quite clear.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who was offended by these posts! I was beginning to wonder if it was just me being frustrated from 5 straight days of pain after my surgery last week that caused me to react out of my normal way to what I perceived was a very insensitive post.

 

[Hannathy]

So do you think a man thinks he's better than you if he offers you a seat?

I'm an able bodied adult woman so don't need to have a seat offered for me. However, if someone did, I wouldn't think they considered me unequal, but instead I'd think their mother raised them right because they were courteous and kind.

Why is that raising them right? to raise them to think of woman as the weaker sex that needs a man to stand so they can sit? nope that "manner" was based totally on woman not being able to do the same things as men that they weren't strong enough. So they what think you are equal but so weak you can't stand up? I am NOT raising my son to feel this way. If a girl is thought to be equal to him in everything including sports then she is equal to him as far as standing up on a bus.

I think that is raising boys to think of woman as not being equal and isn't right.

 

[brunette8706]

I am starting to think I would rather ride the bus with the goat.

I may even be safer riding the goat.

*
Okay, now that's fUNNY! I'm with you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[nicki.momof3]

To each, his own, but I always offer my seat to children, ladies, elderly, and men holding children. My wife will, usually, sit with my 2 kids, and I will stand with the stroller. I feel like I can, even though I am not a cast member, bring a little magic to someone's evening by being considerate and being a little inconvenienced to provide comfort to another.

It is what I hope someone would do for my wife. (And many people have)

Thank you for remembering what it is to be a gentleman. My DH will also give up his seat (and does on almost every bus ride) to any woman or elderly person standing. I sit with my daughter on my lap (age 6). My sons 8 and 9 will sit if there are seats but if a women, elderly, or child younger than them is standing they will give up their seat - we don't even have to remind them that it is the proper thing to do.

To go a step further my DH and sons will always open a door for myself / daughter and they will hold it open while we walk through.

People can flame away but my DH and I strongly feel it is very important for our sons to learn how to be gentlemen.

IMO - shame on those that sit while a person who needs a seat stands.

 

[TinkerBelle920]

I'm not being mean i'm being logical.

If it were me and Dh had cancer i would more than likely take the route of having his swim buddies extracted and frozen. That way I'm not throwing another kid into an already complicated and tough situation. That's me though. I would want to give Dh all my attention and being pregnant would be more of a stress to me. That's what I mean by choice.

You may want to quit while you are ahead

 

[nicki.momof3]

Why is that raising them right? to raise them to think of woman as the weaker sex that needs a man to stand so they can sit? nope that "manner" was based totally on woman not being able to do the same things as men that they weren't strong enough. So they what think you are equal but so weak you can't stand up? I am NOT raising my son to feel this way. If a girl is thought to be equal to him in everything including sports then she is equal to him as far as standing up on a bus.

I think that is raising boys to think of woman as not being equal and isn't right.

Its not about "weaker" it is about good manners. I pray that my DD will not meet and marry someone that was raised with the ideas you are raising your sons with. I hope she chooses someone just like her father. A wonderful man that treats ladies with respect and acts like a gentleman.

Women are not weaker by any means. In many ways they are stronger due to all life puts on their shoulders. But that has nothing to do with being a gentlemen.

 

[si-am]

This exactly honestly taking your kids to Disney these days typically teaches them the kind of person not to be when they grow up. I love the numerous examples I can point out to my kids such as people unwilling to give up bus seats because they are tired, and say don't do that when you grow up. It's downright sad that there is no such thing as common courtesy anymore. I hope everyone who needs a bus seat due to having children, being pregnant, elderly, handicapped, ect. get the seat they deserve. To all of those who aren't willing to give up their seats I hope you feel ashamed for the people you have become.

I'm sorry but why does being pregnant and/or having kids automatically mean you DESERVE a seat over someone else?

Oh right. It doesn't.

 

[Schmeck]

One ECV tie-down takes over 3 seats and standing room for many more, plus that person will take a seat, . /QUOTE]

This does not make sense, if the Ecv was not there, 3 people would be, where does the standing room for many more come from.

One ECV makes 3 seats get folded up. Then the ECV goes in that space, and it is wide enough to stick out into the aisle as well, where many more people could stand - 3-4 people, I'd estimate. Then the person who came in on the ECV has to take a seat, as a person is not permitted to sit on the ECV in transit. That's 7-8 people spaces taken for just one person.

The above is in response to the quote. The rest is in response to other posts-

Animal Kingdom vs Humans - hmmm.... who wages war, kills each other, for no reason except some religious ideas? Who overpopulates and polutes the planet? Who destroys resources, creates weapons that could kill all life on earth, and then buries the waste for future generations to have to deal with? Which species diverts the water of natural flowing rivers, causing other species to suffer, sends it into concrete culverts in the desert, and tampers with the basic balance of nature in so many perverted ways?

Chivalry - based on the concept of knighthood and the protection of church and that women were looked down on (unless you happened to be the virgin Mary) and considered property, or not worthy of owning property, etc. It led to the Crusades, considered a 'right war' by the church, and had a code for behavior based on status. A chivalrous knight considered himself above the weak and poor, and aided them to help the ideal of being a hero.

South vs North - culturally, if one wants to go back over 140 years, there was the plantation mentality more strongly rooted in the south, but it happened in the north too. Factories (and employed women) in the north erased a lot of that plantation mentality here, not so sure what the economic standing for women evolved into down south during the industrial revolution/age of steel, anyone want to enlighten me?

 

[TinkerBelle920]

I'm sorry but why does being pregnant and/or having kids automatically mean you DESERVE a seat over someone else?

Oh right. It doesn't.

IT absolutely doesn't mean you deserve a seat over someone else. It has nothing to do with what someone deserves it has to do with what is right and decent. It only shows that you are a bad person who is not kind to others for not displaying kindness.

That the odd thing about this thread I don't think anyone is saying that they are entitled to a seat because they are pregnant, handicapped, elderly ect. They are just saying that because of people like you who are not kind and not courteous that Disney is becoming a worse place. It is nice to see places where people are kind and offer up a seat to those who need it more not those who "deserve" it. If any side of this is saying they are entitled it would be those who think they do not have to give up their seat.

 

[skater]

If she could handle it she wouldn't accept the seat, no? I have one kid. When i take public transportation I expect to stand if someone offers a seat I decline. If i'm tired or she is cranky we get a taxi.

No one is evil just an idea of responsibility and knowing what you can and can't handle.
As for the term breeders a certain group made it popular and some embraced it.

Life is life. Animal human it is all LIFE! neither is more valuable or important.

So, any animal life has the same value as human life? A bed bug is an animal. A cockroach. Would you value a human child's life over a salamanders? Is a copperhead's life just as important as a person's life? Or is it just mammals that are equal to humans?

 

[Schmeck]

Thank you for remembering what it is to be a gentleman. My DH will also give up his seat (and does on almost every bus ride) to any woman or elderly person standing. I sit with my daughter on my lap (age 6). My sons 8 and 9 will sit if there are seats but if a women, elderly, or child younger than them is standing they will give up their seat - we don't even have to remind them that it is the proper thing to do.

To go a step further my DH and sons will always open a door for myself / daughter and they will hold it open while we walk through.

People can flame away but my DH and I strongly feel it is very important for our sons to learn how to be gentlemen.

IMO - shame on those that sit while a person who needs a seat stands.

Do you just stand there and wait for them to open the door for you? I think you are sending a horrible message to your children - that somehow the boys are expected to wait on the girls, just because the boys are missing a piece of a chromosome!

 

[crashbb]

IT absolutely doesn't mean you deserve a seat over someone else. It has nothing to do with what someone deserves it has to do with what is right and decent. It only shows that you are a bad person who is not kind to others for not displaying kindness.

That the odd thing about this thread I don't think anyone is saying that they are entitled to a seat because they are pregnant, handicapped, elderly ect. They are just saying that because of people like you who are not kind and not courteous that Disney is becoming a worse place. It is nice to see places where people are kind and offer up a seat to those who need it more not those who "deserve" it. If any side of this is saying they are entitled it would be those who think they do not have to give up their seat.

Actually there are a few posters who are definitely saying that they are entitled to a seat because they have kids, are pregnant, whatever; including one who will "glare" at those who do not give up their seat.

I'm just curious, what part of being "kind and courteous" covers referring to other posters as "trash"?

 

[PatsMom]

Do you just stand there and wait for them to open the door for you? I think you are sending a horrible message to your children - that somehow the boys are expected to wait on the girls, just because the boys are missing a piece of a chromosome!

The days of women being the "weaker sex" are long, long gone. I would hold a door for someone with a stroller, male or female, a wheelchair, male or female, or anyone else who is clearly struggling with full arms, etc. But to hold a door for me just because of my gender seems wrong. I am perfectly capable of opening my own door!

 

[Hannathy]

Its not about "weaker" it is about good manners. I pray that my DD will not meet and marry someone that was raised with the ideas you are raising your sons with. I hope she chooses someone just like her father. A wonderful man that treats ladies with respect and acts like a gentleman.

Women are not weaker by any means. In many ways they are stronger due to all life puts on their shoulders. But that has nothing to do with being a gentlemen.

Yes it does! that is how that "manner" evolved. Men stood for the weaker fairer sex-women. There is no other basis for doing it.

Respect is earned it doesn't come about because you are a woman.

If she wants to be able to play with the boys in sports, school, and the workforce she better realize she isn't the weaker sex she is competition and will be treated as such, because any boy would be foolish to think of a girl in any way but equal and in direct competition for the same position.

 

[skater]

Me too. I didn't reply to that one initially because honestly I had no words for it. That someone feels that way is one thing. But to feel ok putting that in writing is even worse.

I frequently feel that the world is headed in the wrong direction and I wonder how it got that way. Then I sit down and read one of these threads and it becomes quite clear.

Because if you don't think there's a difference between humans and the rest of the animal kingdom, then there is no reason to have compassion for less "fit" individuals. Survival of the fittest is the law of the animal world, and if you don't believe that humans are better than other animals, why would there be a need to be compassionate? It is a little disheartening isn't it?

 

[KSDisneyDad]

I wonder what exactly did you find rude about the rest of AustinTink post. She spoke of personal responsibility for your kids and not judging those who remain seated and when someone claims that those who gave them a seat have moral standarts of what is right, it does throw a stone and judgement, something many of us including you are against. Moreover getting on a full bus with so much to carry that you have no means of holding yourself and your kids was exactly what many reffered to, not sure if those posts were also deleted, I never checked.
As you can see in this thread, there is a lot of judging going on and honestly I do not think common ground can be reached and why. I personally believe that every situation is different and it is not jugement but assesment, you see what is going on and you act accordingly to what you think is right at that moment, nothing else. There are extreme cases of starring, guilting, commenting and playing every dirty trick to get a seat and there are extreme cases of I do not care if your year old baby is about to fly out of the window or I will give my seat no matter what, but those are rare. Most people will help if they see someone is about to fall but they will not get up unconditionally just because parent is holding a baby or woman standing or whatever it is. Judgement is no good but assessment is what needs to be done in every case.

I actually quite agree with most of this post. I knew we could find some common ground. In particular, I agree with the bolded. I know we'll never completely agree, but that would make life boring.

I also agree that there are a lot of EXTREME cases being mentioned on here just to make or illustrate a point. I really think these extreme cases are rare in the real world (at least I hope so). I do think most people react to the moment and I hope that these examples are just trying to illustrate why someone may not act as expected.

ughhhh you did the same thing in your long post. You said you need to inform people why they should stand for women your words:
"that some folks need to become informed. I will attempt to do so post haste."

Oh and I am a woman and I have been on this earth probably roughly as long as you have and I find it insulting when a man offers to stand for me solely because I am a woman. Equal means equal.

I think you must be mixing up people's quotes. Oops. You might want to read more carefully before misquoting others.

I have never said in this that I always give my seat up to a woman. I have talked about families with small children (dad, mom, grandma, grandpa, or older siblings trying to help a small child). But yes, I would give up my seat to someone who I perceived at the moment needed it no matter who it is.

 

[KSDisneyDad]

I'm sorry but why does being pregnant and/or having kids automatically mean you DESERVE a seat over someone else?

Oh right. It doesn't.

But very very few people say this. Most who are pregant or who travel with small kids do NOT expect a seat, but yet are very gracious and thankful to others when a seat is offerred.

And a lot of people will still find it courteous to gve up a seat to someone who is pregnant or has small kids. There is a difference between the two (expecting vs being thankful).

Why try to judge everyone?

 

[Wadecool]

IT absolutely doesn't mean you deserve a seat over someone else. It has nothing to do with what someone deserves it has to do with what is right and decent. It only shows that you are a bad person who is not kind to others for not displaying kindness.

That the odd thing about this thread I don't think anyone is saying that they are entitled to a seat because they are pregnant, handicapped, elderly ect. They are just saying that because of people like you who are not kind and not courteous that Disney is becoming a worse place. It is nice to see places where people are kind and offer up a seat to those who need it more not those who "deserve" it. If any side of this is saying they are entitled it would be those who think they do not have to give up their seat.

To the first bolded part: this sentence completely contradicts your overall thought and is filled with assumptions about people you do not know.

To the second bolded part: there have been several posters in this thread who have said that very thing. Its all here in black and white like a transcript (assuming they haven't gone back and edited the original posts).

 

[crashbb]

*
Hi! I see what you are saying, and from "your" previous posts, my instinct is that you seem like a nice person. For instance you stated that you would give up your seat (even though you do have a condition), this is extremely considerate of you. (This is not your verbaitam wording). But if someone stared you down you would not. Yes, if you ask politely that's one thing, but if you demand, well, then, that's different, and it usually doens't work with me and or others.

As far as PirateJeff, I think he was just stating that he would give a woman a seat not because they are inferior, to the contrare, but just as a kind gesture. I don't think he would consider you a "bad" person if you decline. Of course this is just my opinion. But, as I said earlier you do make some valid points.

Brunette

Thanks. I do agree with your assessment of PirateJeff,

As much as I dislike those who believe that they are entitled to my seat, I dislike at least as much, those who react rudely when a seat is offered to them. It has happened (though rarely) to me, when I've offered up my seat. I would never do it to someone else (nor am I going to try to guess why they offered their seat).