The Big 3 Auto bailout

I purchased Ford products for years, and had problems with every one of them. The last vehicle I purchased from Ford was a Taurus wagon, which had a transmission leak the day I took it home:mad: . Anyway that situation finally cured me, and have since purchased a Honda (made in Ohio), and a Subaru. Both of those vehicles have been trouble free from day one. It's really about engineering, so perhaps if GM, and Ford would start engineering their products to be trouble free at a reasonable price people would start purchasing them again.:confused3
 
....The last vehicle I purchased from Ford was a Taurus wagon....


Off Topic:

Was your Taurus wagon made in the 80's or 90's?
We had a Ford LTD Crown Victoria Wagon that was built in the late 1980's.
We had 4 children , 2 teens and 2 preschoolers at the time we bought it.

It was a great family car and just what we needed for all the weekend snowmobiel trips we made during the winter.

That wagon pulled our snowmobiels 250 miles north and back again for about 4 or 5 years. Then DH bought a Chevy extended mini van which he also used for work, I got a Cadillac and our oldest DD got a Dodge Charger to use for college.

Thankfully we never had a problem with any of those vehicles.

I am sorry you had problems with your Taurus.
 
<SNIP>Honda, Toyota and most others are weathering this storm quite well. NO layoffs, NO layoffs. They have slowed production and employees are "doing other things" i.e. cleaning and some did take VOLUNTARY vacations but no layoffs.<SNIP>

Wow! You opened my eyes!
The picture is getting bigger and clearer.

When Honda and Toyota have a no-layoff plan it is Ok. But when the Detroit 3 does the same thing they are criticized for their "job banks".

What a double standard!

No-layoff policies soften the production cuts for workers at some U.S. plants of foreign brands. Toyota's permanent workers, for instance, are paid on shutdown days and take training classes or perform maintenance. The Detroit 3 and the United Auto Workers union have been criticized for a similar but more formal program called the jobs bank while they seek a federal bailout.

"Toyota has more people in its jobs bank than the Big 3 do, but they don't call it a jobs bank," says Dave Cole of the Center for Automotive Research.

Link:
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2008-12-07-new-auto-plants_N.htm
 
Wow! You opened my eyes!
The picture is getting bigger and clearer.

When Honda and Toyota have a no-layoff plan it is Ok. But when the Detroit 3 does the same thing they are criticized for their "job banks".

What a double standard!



Link:
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2008-12-07-new-auto-plants_N.htm

It's not a double standard at all. Toyota's arrangement is not contractually stipulated. They may change it at any time to keep the company healthy. Is Toyota asking for U.S. government $$? If they are I'll buy the double-standard accusation. If they are not the analogy doesn't hold up. The phrase in that article "more formal" is the rub.

While it is true that this person is a "conservative" columnist, what checking I can do show's the assertions here are factual:

The UAW’s Money-Squandering Corruptocracy
Always putting the workers first!

By Michelle Malkin
Nero fiddled while Rome burned. The UAW golfed. While carmakers soak up $17 billion in taxpayer bailout funds and demand more for their ailing industry, United Auto Workers bosses have wasted tens of millions of their workers’ dues on gold-plated resorts and rotten investments. The labor organization’s money-losing golf compound is just the tip of the iceberg.

The UAW owns and operates Black Lake Golf Course — a “championship caliber” course opened in 2000 that’s part of a larger “family education center” and retreat nestled in 1,000 acres of property in Onaway, Mich. Spearheaded by former UAW president Steve Yokich, the resort also includes “a beautiful gym with two full-sized basketball courts, an Olympic-size indoor pool, exercise and weight room, table-tennis and pool tables, a sauna, beaches, walking and bike trails, softball and soccer fields and a boat launch ramp.” Like everything else we’re subsidizing these days, the UAW’s playground is a money pit. The Detroit Free Press reported earlier this year that the golf course (valued at $6 million) and education center (valued at $27 million) have together lost $23 million over the past five years. While membership in the union has plummeted, the UAW retains assets worth $1.2 billion.

Curious about how the UAW will be spending my money and yours, I sifted through the union’s most recent annual report filed with the U.S. Department of Labor (which you can find at unionreports.gov). Who knew hitting the links was so central to the business of making cars?

In May and November 2007, the UAW forked over nearly $53,000 for union staff meetings at the Thousand Hills Golf Resort in Branson, Mo. In September 2007, the UAW dropped another $5,000 at the Lakes of Taylor Golf Club in Taylor, Mich., and another $9,000 at the Thunderbird Hills Golf Club in Huron, Ohio. Another bill for $5,772 showed up for the Branson, Mo., golf resort. On Oct. 26, 2007, the union spent $5,000 on another “golf outing” in Detroit. In May and June 2007, UAW bosses spent nearly $11,000 on a golf tournament and related expenses at the Hawthorne Hill Country Club in Lima, Ohio. And in April 2007, the UAW spent $12,000 for a charity golf sponsorship in Dearborn, Mich. In August 2007, the UAW paid nearly $10,000 to its for-profit Black Lake golf course operator, UBG, for something itemized as “Golf 2007 Summer School.” UBG had nearly $4.4 million worth of outstanding loans from the union. Another for-profit entity that runs the education center, UBE, had nearly $20 million in outstanding loans from the union.

Perhaps, the union bosses might argue, they need all this fresh air and exercise to clear their heads in order to make wise financial decisions on behalf of their workers. If only. UAW management has proven to be a money-squandering corruptocracy with faux blue-collar trim. Former UAW head Yokich, who built the Black Lake black hole, is also responsible for bidding $9.75 million of workers’ funds in a botched bid to purchase the gated La Mancha Resort Village in Palm Springs. The 100-room walled resort with spas, poolside massages and a “croquet lawn lit for night use” was on the verge of bankruptcy with $5.2 million in debt. Despite outrage from rank-and-file union members who thought one gold-plated golf resort was quite enough, leaders defended the La Mancha bid because, as union spokesman Paul Krell put it, “‘You can never tell if you are going to become snowbound.” Always putting the workers first!

That deal didn’t go through, but the UAW’s quixotic dalliance with a failed airline did. In February 2000, the union poured $14.7 million into Pro Air, a Detroit start-up airline that, well, didn’t get off the ground. Plagued by safety problems, the feds shuttered the company less than a year later. The union didn’t fare much better in its venture with a liberal radio network. In 1996, union heavies got the bright idea to invest $5 million in United Broadcasting Network, a left-wing precursor to Air America that the UAW hoped to use to spread its corporate-bashing propaganda. They shelled out for a $2 million, state-of-the-art studio in Detroit and incurred years of losses of a reported $75,000 a month before closing the network down in 2003.

And while the UAW and carmakers cry poor, they’ve operated massive joint funds for years that have paid for lavish items such as multi-million-dollar NASCAR racer sponsorships and Las Vegas junkets. The dire economic downturn hasn’t changed the behavior of profligate union bigs at the front office or the shop floor. Local Detroit TV station WDIV recently caught local UAW bosses Ron Seroka and Jim Modzelewski — both of whom make six-figure salaries — on tape squandering thousands of hours of overtime on such important labor security matters as on-the-clock beer runs and bowling tournaments.

At least the groveling Big Three CEOs gave up their corporate jets. Where’s the public flogging for the greed-infested UAW fat cats reaching into our pockets to keep them afloat?

© 2008 CREATORS SYNDICATE, INC.
 

It's not a double standard at all. Toyota's arrangement is not contractually stipulated. They may change it at any time to keep the company healthy. Is Toyota asking for U.S. government $$? If they are I'll buy the double-standard accusation. If they are not the analogy doesn't hold up. The phrase in that article "more formal" is the rub.

While it is true that this person is a "conservative" columnist, what checking I can do show's the assertions here are factual:


Thank-you Galahad for calming me down with your voice of reason.
I for one have never been in favor of the UAW "jobs bank" but when
edwardsfire stated rubbing the "NO LAYOFFS" "NO LAYOFFS" at Honda and Toyota in my face, saying in essence that Honda and Toyota cared more about their workers and took better care of them than the Detroit 3 does for their
workers....well I kind of lost it. That is what I ment by the double standard....I ment the way he praising Honda and Toyota.

Thanks again Galahad for your calm and kind responce.
 
BTW:

The Black Lake Golf Course in Onaway, Mich. is open to the public even though it is owned by UAW.

My DH and 2 sons played there this past summer. They said it is beautiful course.

Here is a link to the website:

http://www.blacklakegolf.com/
 
Also to be fair when the UAW opened Black Lake Golf Course in the year 2000.

GM earned $1.78 billion in profies.

8 years ago the ecomomy was better and so were profits for Detroit 3.

Edited to add:

I though the UAW was funded by the members so why should what they spend their money on concern us, the tax payers? I thought the bridge loan was for the auto companies not the UAW.

AIG has their junkets but those are funded AIG not a union so I understand some concern with thier junkets. I do not understand why we should worry about outings and investments that the UAW made in the past.

Now if GM or Ford or Chrysler made those investments and /or junkets it might be a "horse of a different color".

JMHO
 
I though the UAW was funded by the members so why should what they spend their money on concern us, the tax payers? I thought the bridge loan was for the auto companies not the UAW.

The members are not really funding the UAW. The company is paying the members "enough" that they can pay their dues and still "make a living wage". They are a closed shop - so the workers have no choice but to fund the unions largess. Therefore, the UAW is most definitely and directly a beneficiary of taxpayer money. The UAW is suppose to be a labor union intended to protect its members. It is not suppose to be a profit making organization - that's what the publicly traded auto companies are for. In fact, IMO, the UAW have negotiated an ethically questionable contract if they can afford to build a putt-putt let alone a country club.
 
Not sure I really car why or who wants to hurt the UAW. The sooner the UAW is killed off entirely the better it will be for Main Street and every other street for that matter.

Did you bother to even WATCH the video?
 
Did you bother to even WATCH the video?

Nope. Politics is politics. I'm sure the Democrats have it in for one group or another and will do what ever they can to hurt them politically (like oil companies, etc). Like I said, I believe that the UAW is unambiguously harmful. I don't care why somebody wants to harm it.
 
Nope. Politics is politics. I'm sure the Democrats have it in for one group or another and will do what ever they can to hurt them politically (like oil companies, etc). Like I said, I believe that the UAW is unambiguously harmful. I don't care why somebody wants to harm it.

Since you chose NOT to watch the info provided to you, then you will not be able to speak intelligently about the concessions.
 
Since you chose NOT to watch the info provided to you, then you will not be able to speak intelligently about the concessions.

Fine. I've watched it. It's the same tripe Kyle was flitting about a couple of weeks ago. The very first paragraph - that they were willing to kill GM in order to kill the UAW - Good Lord what tripe. Not sure how anybody can "speak intelligently" about it but it doesn't really change my assessment. The UAW is harmful to the long term security of its workers and the U.S. auto industry. I still am not concerned that somebody wanted to harm them.
 
Fine. I've watched it. It's the same tripe Kyle was flitting about a couple of weeks ago. The very first paragraph - that they were willing to kill GM in order to kill the UAW - Good Lord what tripe. Not sure how anybody can "speak intelligently" about it but it doesn't really change my assessment. The UAW is harmful to the long term security of its workers and the U.S. auto industry. I still am not concerned that somebody wanted to harm them.
When it affects your job and your lively hood then you will finally get it. BUT....I'm sure you are one of those who thinks the bad economy and businesess that big 3 workers and all the ones connected to them USE to spend their money at will never affect you. OH WELL some people are like that.
 
I have never worked under a union. I can be fired at will. Because I can be fired at will, paid what I individually agreed to, etc. my company can be healthier and I stand a better chance of keeping my job. The UAW is destroying the jobs of its members by forcing their compensation above what the market would normally dictate. It is the UAW affecting your livelyhood. If US auto workers were compensated at market rates more of them might have secure jobs right now. As it is, the UAW's all or nothing approach - concessions or not - will do more to reduce the amount of money folks have to spend in the long run - which I am well aware affects me.
 
Since you chose NOT to watch the info provided to you, then you will not be able to speak intelligently about the concessions.
He has now watched it, but in reality that was not necessary. Your use of the word "concessions" implies that the union still asserts that they are owed more than what is provided by an unencumbered labor market, i.e., the labor market most of us work within. Such special privileges had their day, and that day has passed.
 
He has now watched it, but in reality that was not necessary. Your use of the word "concessions" implies that the union still asserts that they are owed more than what is provided by an unencumbered labor market, i.e., the labor market most of us work within. Such special privileges had their day, and that day has passed.

WOW....you got all of that out of me using the WORD concessions?


I used the word concessions because it states in the video the concessions that the workers have given up.
 
The word "concessions" actually does imply the existence of a collective bargaining contract. :teacher:
 
<SNIP>The UAW is harmful to the long term security of its workers and the U.S. auto industry.

I belive that statement is your personal opinion.

As for me I am not pro union but I do not hate them.
I feel that today's UAW is very weak. Thus the 2007 concessions and the more recent conessions.

I feel that the present UAW has very little power nowadays.

Thankfully the days of jimmy Hoffa are long gone.


JMHO
 


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