The Ballistics MATCH!!!!!

[EROS]

Thanks, SERENA . No one can rightly say that you're a member of the newest club on the DIS.............the DOC ..........(Dis Ostrich Crowd) ...........

 

[WebmasterAlex]

I have to agree with you Eros, institutions do not always learn from mistakes. Let's take the simple example of physician's handwriting. Every year 1000's of patients die or are not treated properly because of medication errors caused by an inability to read a physician's handwriting.
ONCE in a while it makes the news, like the Dana Farber incident near you.
With all the technology available that could limit that mistake, or by the simple act of physician's taking the time to print legibly, 1000's of lives could be saved.
It doesn't happen.

HISTORY is a cruel teacher; when we DON'T learn, we make the SAME mistakes over and over

So true

 

[EROS]

Originally posted by WebmasterAlex
Every year 1000's of patients die or are not treated properly because of medication errors caused by an inability to read a physician's handwriting.

I don't want to be accused by the DIS RIGHTEOUS of a thread hijack, but since you're a WebMaster, I should be able to respond . I CAN'T AGREE WITH YOU MORE!!!!

I abandoned handwritten RXs over 2 years ago; all of my prescriptions are sent via my desktop to a host of local pharmacies. In the hospital, all Rxs are also written on computer terminals.

Can mistakes still be made??? Definitely. ALL patients should take an ACTIVE part in their health care, especially when hospitalized . When my own mother recently had a knee replacement, I asked her about the meds which she received post-operatively. Her response........." I don't know; I just took what they gave me "........

 

[WebmasterAlex]

That's the point though Eros... would you look at a patient who had just found out they were in remission and tell them not to celebrate, they should be mourning for the people that died?
That they didn't have a right to be happy?
That they were burying their head in the sand if they didn't insist on a complete investigation of all the mistakes made by physicians?

 

[JohnTBap]

Originally posted by WebmasterAlex
Let's take the simple example of physician's handwriting. Every year 1000's of patients die or are not treated properly because of medication errors caused by an inability to read a physician's handwriting.
With all the technology available that could limit that mistake, or by the simple act of physician's taking the time to print legibly, 1000's of lives could be saved.
It doesn't happen.

At the risk of being banned, I must respectfully disagree. My doctors NEATLY PRINT the prescriptions.

Please don't ban me.

 

[EROS]

Not to worry, JTB . I'll be banned from here way before your time comes; after all, the DIS RIGHTEOUS need your biblical voice .

Alex, life is so hard for ALL of us that we should celebrate WHENEVER we have the opportunity. Soooooooooooooo, I guess that the country should have been ELATED when Lee Harvey Oswald was finally caught. Right??????

 

[WebmasterAlex]

completely different situation! Lee Harvey Oswald was not a threat to the individual person. In the recent shootings people felt a threat to themselves and THAT'S why they are happy! A threat to THEIR life has been removed. That was not the case at all in the death of President Kennedy. It's one thing to have a public figure killed as an assination, quite another to be standing there pumping gas wondering wether the next thing you feel will be a .223 round.

 

[EROS]

I agree Alex, but at least we didn't go around glad-handing and saying "Great Job" after Oswald was arrested. We chose to HONOR Kennedy's memory by critically examining our institutions. We've started to do that with a recent examination of our FAILURES leading up to 9-11.

Could the snipers have been detected in less than 20 days??? Could some of the deaths been prevented??? I DON'T KNOW , but I think that the 14 agencies involved should review their investigation and critical decisions. Instead, we can all have a Cheshire smile of relief and say, " What, Me Worry??". .......

 

[WebmasterAlex]

No we have people saying "I can send my children to school and not worry about the sniper getting them", "I can put gas in my car and not have to think about whether or not I will live through the experience", "I can go to Home Depot and by a 2x4 without wondering whether or not that is a death sentence".
As I said before NONE of that means that there won't be a critical look at what happend.
They are mutually exclusive.
Find me an article that says there will not be an investigation, that this incident won't be examined.

 

[EROS]

Mourners surround Franklin's parents, Charles and Maryann Moore of Gainesville, Fla., as they leave their daughter's funeral, where Charles Moore told tales of Franklin's childhood, including a prank she played on her brother.


Linda Gail Franklin, an FBI analyst who valiantly battled breast cancer only to be cut down by a sniper's bullet in a Home Depot parking lot last week, was mourned yesterday by more than 350 friends, relatives and co-workers as someone who lived life with spirit, flair and humor.

At a 45-minute service at Mount Olivet United Methodist Church in Arlington that was filled with music and memories, the Rev. Larry Tingle told the gathering how Franklin had once coolly faced down a machete-wielding carjacker in Guatemala and about the Easter egg hunt that the fun-loving grandmother-to-be engineered last year for her two grown children.

Franklin's father, Charles Moore, sent a ripple of chuckles through the crowded sanctuary with stories of his daughter's rambunctious childhood, including the time she persuaded her younger brother to wear his pink bunny costume from a school play to school.

"That was just Linda having fun," Moore said, as his voice thickened.

Franklin, 47, was fatally wounded outside the Fairfax County store Oct. 14 as she and her husband, Ted, loaded purchases into their car for a move they were about to make. She was the ninth person killed by the elusive single-shot sniper, who has terrorized the Washington area since Oct. 2. Three people have been seriously wounded, including the gunman's latest target, a man shot Saturday night outside a steakhouse in Ashland, Va.

Breaking developments in that case formed an eerie backdrop for Franklin's funeral yesterday morning, as mourners learned that police in Richmond had surrounded a suspicious white minivan and taken two men into custody for questioning.

Before the service at Mount Olivet, some people lingered in their cars, listening to their radios for the latest updates. Later in the day, the two men were cleared of involvement in the sniper attacks.

Inside the sanctuary, 12 lit candles represented the 12 shooting victims in the case, which has resulted in a multi-state, multi-police force manhunt.

The past year was difficult for Franklin, friends remembered, as she underwent a double mastectomy for treatment of breast cancer and endured the death of a teenage niece whom she had helped raise.

But characteristically, friends said, she was looking forward, not backward.

Along with the new home she and her husband had purchased, Franklin had recently learned from her daughter that she would soon be a grandmother. The baby is due in February, and Franklin had already begun buying gifts, Tingle said.

Franklin's husband and her two children -- Katrina Hannum, 23, and Thomas Belvin, 25 -- attended yesterday's service. Other immediate family members included her parents, Charles and Maryann Moore; her sister, Susan Kundrat; her brother, Steven Moore; and their children.

In his homily, Tingle decried the sniper shootings, saying they "are not the will of God," and that the sniper "has surrendered himself to darkness and evil."

"Let us choose life and joy and hope," Tingle said.

After the service, members of Franklin's family clung to each other, weeping, as the coffin was carried from the church. Burial was to be private, the family said.

Franklin was born in Indiana and grew up in Gainesville, Fla., where she attended the University of Florida. She taught at Department of Defense schools overseas before coming to the FBI 3 1/2 years ago.

Tingle said that when Franklin was teaching in Guatemala, a man with a machete once jumped in her Jeep and demanded it. She refused but volunteered to drive him where he needed to go, the minister related.

Other mourners praised Franklin's warmth. "She met no strangers," said Kathy Martin, an FBI colleague who said she became instant friends with Franklin last summer when they worked together on a project.

Public officials, including Katherine K. Hanley (D), chairman of the Fairfax County Board of Supervisors, and Montgomery County Executive Douglas M. Duncan (D), also paid their respects.

Duncan, who has attended the funerals of eight sniper victims, said afterward that "the families are struggling terribly with what has been happening . . . and we have no answer."

In a statement, Franklin family spokesman Davy Wray thanked the public on behalf of the family: "The outpouring of support and prayers from the public touches them all, and, for all of this, they say thanks."

 

[WebmasterAlex]

That picture puts a face on the tragedy, I am sure everyone's heart goes out to those poor folks...
While they celebrate their life

 

[EROS]

Originally posted by WebmasterAlex
That picture puts a face on the tragedy, I am sure everyone's heart goes out to those poor folks...
While they celebrate their life

MAYBE

There are those who remember that we sacrificed the lives of over 56,000 BRAVE Americans in Vietnam, but many have chosen to "forget" . It's human nature.

 

[WillyJ]

Since I was the one who used the term "celebrate life", I'll assume that your many posts since were at least in part a comment on that Eros. . .

Let me just say this; for someone who contstantly claims that dissentling opinions aren't "allowed" here on the DIS, it appears to me that you are the one who can't stand anyone disagreeing with you, and you always seem to feel the need to pound people over the head with your point of view. .

But, I stand by what I posted, and I am one of the last people around here who has my head stuck in the sand. . rather, I was practicing some of that "humanity" you are always carrying on about, but seldom ever show yourself. . .

Have a Disney Day buddy!

 

[minniepumpernickel]

If you have ever read any books about serial killers, you would know that it usually takes a lot longer to catch one. Some of them are even still out there, or we have no idea whatever happened to them.

If I read this whole post I will surely get a migraine. You can only take so much insanity in small increments.


Alex, excellent posts about the medical profession. Very interesting, they also need to check up on licensing and certifications more often too.

We should be thankful to Chief Moose and the rest of law enforcement for catching these guys. Some of the arguments against Moose that I have heard on the net, sound racist in my opinion. Some people will say anything to discredit an african american.

 

[EROS]

Grace Oister, 3, and her mother, Christa, walk from the Pottstown, Pa., grave site of Gaithersburg businessman Dean Harold Meyers, who was killed by the Washington area sniper while pumping gas at a Sunoco Station near Manassas.

By Sylvia Moreno and Darragh Johnson
Washington Post Staff Writers
Sunday, October 20, 2002; Page A15



Mourners gathered yesterday in the District and in Pennsylvania to honor the lives of Pascal Emile Charlot and Dean Harold Meyers, bound tragically in death as two of the nine victims felled by the Washington area sniper.

At Shrine of the Sacred Heart in Northwest Washington, where 1,000 people attended the funeral mass for Charlot, the service began with a commemoration of all nine. Two others, whose identities have been withheld by authorities, were wounded by the sniper but survived.

"We come together today to remember the sixth victim .. . but members of Mr. Charlot's family will light nine candles to remember the nine persons killed in the past three weeks," said the Rev. Stephen Carter, the pastor of Sacred Heart.

The first white liturgical candle was lit, and the sad roll call began:

"James Martin, killed Oct. 2. James 'Sonny' Buchanan, killed Oct. 3. Premkumar Walekar, killed Oct. 3. Sarah Ramos, killed Oct. 3. Lori Lewis Rivera, killed Oct. 3. Pascal Charlot, killed Oct. 3. Dean Harold Meyers, killed Oct. 9. Kenneth Harold Bridges, killed Oct. 11. Linda Franklin, killed Oct. 14."

And at Pottstown Coventry Church of the Brethren, 30 miles west of Philadelphia, where nearly 200 people, including Montgomery County Executive Douglas M. Duncan, attended Meyers's funeral, the pastor ended the service on a hopeful, spiritual note.

"What happened here was evil," said Sandy Christophel. "We see towers collapse, and that's the face of evil. But God didn't bring special protection even to his own son."

He paused. "Do you think darkness will triumph?"

The room was quiet. He answered for the congregation: "No."

Charlot, 72, who emigrated to Washington from Haiti in 1964, was described as a pioneer in the local Haitian community. He was, said the Rev. Andre Pierre, director of Haitian Ministry for the Archdiocese of Washington and the main celebrant of Charlot's funeral mass, "someone who cared for us. He was so at the center of his family life."

The service -- in French, English and Creole -- was attended by the large extended Charlot family, from the Washington area, along the Eastern Seaboard and the Caribbean; friends and several public officials: Mayor Anthony A. Williams (D), Del. Eleanor Holmes Norton (D) and D.C. Council member Adrian M. Fenty (D-Ward 4).

It was in his role as caregiver that Charlot was last seen before he was shot in the neck at 9:20 p.m. on Oct. 3. He was standing on the corner of Georgia Avenue and Kalmia Street NW, one block from the Montgomery County line.

About an hour before, he had cooked supper for his wife, Doriel Allen Charlot, who was diagnosed with Alzheimer's about two years ago and for whom he was the sole caretaker. He took her meal to her room, said stepson Lloyd Allen, who had dropped by that night, and at about 8:10 p.m., said good-bye to her and walked out the door.

What he was doing 2.8 miles north of his red brick rowhouse in Petworth remains a mystery to Allen and to Pascal's five adult children, who live in Silver Spring, New York City, Ottawa and Port-au-Prince.

"I don't know if he went to fill a prescription for my mother or why he would go so far up to do that," Allen said. "He was just at the wrong place at the wrong time."

A tall, strapping man with a wide, warm smile, Charlot was also portrayed as a prankster who loved to make people laugh. He was a romantic, too, taking his ailing wife out to dinner last month for her 78th birthday and giving her a bouquet of red roses. He was a skilled carpenter who remodeled houses until he retired, but kept a hand in his trade by working on small rehab projects for neighbors and friends.

"It was always 'Pay me what you think it's worth,' " recalled Allen. "He never gave them a price."

He was, indeed, as Pierre said, at the center of his five children's lives.

Herve Charlot, 42, last saw his father in early September during a week-long visit from Port-au-Prince.

"We were talking about how I'm going to build my life," said Charlot, a part-time professor of accounting and also a financial consultant in Haiti. And they spoke, as they often did, about Herve moving to the United States to seek better economic opportunities and about Pascal going back to Haiti to visit, something he did only once in the 38 years he lived here.

Herve Charlot reminded his father that he was in the process of building his house in Haiti. "I told him I'm going to make an entire room for you for when you come back," he said. "Maybe I could get him to come stay for a month."

But that was wishful thinking. Herve Charlot said his father missed Haiti. "But he was the type of guy who was connected to the U.S."

Charlot's daughter, Myrtha Cinada, 38, who spoke to her father by telephone almost daily, entertained him and his wife on Sundays with traditional Haitian delicacies that he loved. Four days before Charlot was killed, they feasted on baked salmon, white rice, pois (green peas and lima beans) and salad at Cinada's Silver Spring home. He didn't leave without giving each of her three children some money "for your mom to buy you something," she recalled.

"I will miss him." Cinada said. "That's a big hole in my life that will never be filled by anyone else."

In Pennsylvania, Meyers was remembered as the "humble, gentle and quiet" uncle to nine grown children; the decorated Vietnam veteran; the 53-year-old Gaithersburg man who "always remembered everyone's birthday" and who, at 8:18 p.m. Oct. 10, became the sniper's seventh fatality. He had finished work late and was pumping gas at a Sunoco Station near Manassas, getting ready for his commute home to Montgomery County.

He was supposed to be on the Appalachian trail yesterday, hiking and camping with friends. Instead, his friends were attending his funeral. That stark fact, along with a slide show of pictures that preceded the funeral service -- shots that showed Meyers canoeing, fishing, playing softball, attending ball games at Fenway Park, drinking Budweisers and on vacation in the rugged West -- prompted Meyers's pastor from Virginia, Jeff Carter, to ask:

"Why? Why did someone filled with so much life have to die?"

Carter answered his own question. "Dean was filled with far too much life to be remembered by his death."

The scene at the church vibrantly celebrated Meyers's life. Near the church's front door were Meyers's mint-condition Corvette and his white Isuzu Trooper, complete with a green canoe tied upside down on top and a 10-speed bike in the back. The church basement was decorated with posters, pictures and memorabilia from Meyers's life. His uniform from the Vietnam War hung on the wall near his golf clubs, his baseball hats and his softball mitt.

Meyers's years in Vietnam, where he served as sergeant in the Army, troubled him. A war wound nearly ruined his use of one of his arms, but after months of physical therapy, he was able to play sports. He could never play the piano again. In April 1972 he wrote an essay about the night he and his fellow soldiers were attacked: "Our squad leader angrily called for assistance and a Medevac chopper. 'One killed and two wounded' -- the words sounded so unreal. The firing had lasted about twenty seconds. My dreams of home faded. I had nine months to go."

In May 1972, nearly a year after he returned from Vietnam, he wrote another essay on the American dream. It so personified him, his family said, that it was included in the funeral program.

"The American Dream has not soured over the years," Meyers wrote. "Perhaps, we have a distorted view of our past history, believing that at one time our nation was virtuous and now is corrupt. . . . How can we forget we were once a nation under the siege of civil war . . . once we warred with Spain and Mexico . . . once we condoned the buying and selling of a human life? Where was the American dream during those dark years? No, we have not fallen, but rather are rising."

 

[Deb in IA]

Originally posted by EROS

Sometimes, institutions LEARN from mistakes. HISTORY is a cruel teacher; when we DON'T learn, we make the SAME mistakes over and over.

Well, interesting discourse for a Sunday morning . . .

Now, what we have here is a difference in viewpoint. EROS is taking the "critical thinking" approach -- what happened, what went right, what went wrong, who knew what and when, and what can we learn from this. And certainly, that's not all bad, especially since the "experts" have been quick to point out that the standard profiling was wrong is many aspects of this case (ie. the suspect was thought to be a LONE WHITE male, age 20 to 35)

On the other hand, we have the folks who repond on an emotional level -- thank God it's over, we have our life, liberty and freedom back, etc. And given the extreme emotional toll this episode has taken, especially on those literally living in the crosshairs, this is certainly understandable also.

Are they mutually exclusive? I don't think so. I think we CAN and SHOULD look at what was done right, as well as what was done wrong in the final analysis, while grieving with the families who lost loved ones and feeling genuine relief and gladness that this nightmare is over -- at least for now.


disneyispi, Cheif Moose holds a PhD in urban studies.

Lucy Storm, I looked really hard, but didn't see anything in the title of this thread that says CELEBRATORY posts only.

minniepumpernickel, I am required to re-credential at my hospital every year. That includes providing documentation of my degrees, residency and fellowship training, current licensure, DEA registration, board certification (which I am required to re-certify every 6 years), 5 personal and 5 professional references, and a detailed checklist of any conditions affecting my ability to practice medicine, including any suspension or revokation of my license, any past or ongoing legal actions and malpractice claims, any past settlements and degree of personal involvement. As I said, this is done EVERY YEAR.

And I agree with EROS about our need to learn from history -- that's in large part why I do the Today in History posts. After all, those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it (George Santayana).

 

[CathyCanada]

While I grieve for those that so senselessly lost their lives, I am glad that these maniacs are off the street and hopefully, will never be able to hurt anyone ever again.

What was this thread about anyway???
CC

 

[minniepumpernickel]

Deb,
Can you answer one question for me, what is the point of posting the post that came after mine, about the funeral etc.? Is it supposed to make us feel bad that they didn't catch the sniper sooner? If this isn't a blatant case of someone projecting their insanity on us, then I don't know what is. I will not debate my last statement. I won't reply to this again.

I have seen people banned on here, who were a lot more stable and less offensive, in my opinion.

I'm really not angry or anything, and if any moderators want to delete this post feel free to do so. It just bothers me when someone tries to skew the truth.

 

[EROS]

Originally posted by minniepumpernickel
If this isn't a blatant case of someone projecting their insanity on us, then I don't know what is. I will not debate my last statement. I won't reply to this again.

Hey, Minnie, sorry to see you leave this thread . Perhaps I will be banned someday, and your wish will come true .

If a SEARCH FOR THE TRUTH makes someone certifiably INSANE, then I indeed am a real WACKO!!!! ........

Great post, DEB . Of course the general tendency around here is to always see the cup as "half full". I'm an optimist most of the time, but occasionally one has to at least inquire about human failings................. in doctors, law enforcement, the Presidency, or the FBI .......

 

[minniepumpernickel]

I don't want to see anyone banned. Seriously Eros, are you troubled? Are you in pain?

I try to be fair in how I respond on here. If I can't be, I'll really try to stay away!