The Ballistics MATCH!!!!!

I have had personal experience with the Washington Post as they wrote a story about my daughter just prior to her adoption.
Trust me when I say, I wouldn't consider them a reputable source. They had their facts so screwed up and invented so many more in the story about my daughter that it was difficult to tell they were writing about her unless you saw her name.

And that was a story where emotions weren't running high and there weren't critical deadlines to meet.

So many times I think that the media fuels the fire.

This is a yoo hoo post, so I agree with michele when she says it shouldn't be a debate. It is a celebration, not a poll for opinions.
 
OK, let's CELEBRATE, bury our heads in the sand (DISers do that sooooooooooooooo well), and not bother to evaluate whether better investigative work could have saved some of the 10 lives which were tragically lost:( :( :( :( ..........
 
Police spotted suspects' car 10 times during sniper spree
By Craig Whitlock and Josh White
Washington Post

Authorities in the Washington region spotted the same faded blue 1990 Chevrolet Caprice and recorded its New Jersey plates on at least 10 different occasions this month, but saw no reason to link it to the sniper attacks until this week, law enforcement sources said Friday.

Ten times, authorities thought the car warranted enough suspicion that they ran its license-plate number through a national police database, sources said. Each time, however, they let the driver go after finding no record that it had been stolen or that its occupants were wanted for any crimes.

Police said the weather-beaten Chevrolet with whitewall tires did not attract closer scrutiny because they were mistakenly fixated on other vehicles -- a white van, a box truck, a cream-colored Toyota.

``We were looking for a white van with white people, and we ended up with a blue car with black people,'' said Washington, D.C., Police Chief Charles Ramsey, whose department ran the Caprice's license Oct. 3, just hours before a fatal shooting in Washington that has been tied to the sniper suspects, John Allen Muhammad, 41, and John Lee Malvo, 17.

Before the suspects themselves dropped the clue that led to their arrests, the thousand or so agents and police officers working the case were painstakingly chasing tips and leads that led nowhere, many of them said.

``We were running a lot of leads into the ground,'' said one local law enforcement source. ``There were a ton of dead ends.''

Some of those might eventually have paid off, but none with the speed that the suspects' own tips provided.

One of the more promising trails involved motels along the shooting path. Authorities combed through guest lists and later determined that Muhammad and Malvo had stopped for the night near the shootings in Spotsylvania and Prince William counties, as well as one outside a Ponderosa steakhouse in Ashland, Va. In all, Muhammad and Malvo are suspected of shooting 13 people, killing 10 of them.

The two suspects were spotted at a YMCA on Route 1 -- less than a mile from the Ponderosa -- in the days before the Ashland shooting, according to police and YMCA officials in Richmond. Other guests said the pair stood out because they were unusually dirty and eager to use the YMCA's showers.

Until the suspects dropped the hints that led to their arrests, investigators were mostly frustrated.

``We were chasing the nut of the day,'' one of them said.

In retrospect, investigators said Friday that they believe they unwittingly came close to finding the sniper on other occasions, but failed to corner their quarry because their vision was clouded by thousands of empty leads.

Perhaps the best opportunity came Oct. 3, immediately after the sniper fatally shot a 72-year-old man waiting for a bus in Washington, near the Montgomery County border.

About 10 seconds after the shooting, a witness saw a dark-colored Chevrolet Caprice creep away from the scene with its lights off. The witness later reported the sighting to police.

Four days after that shooting, Washington police asked officers to look for ``an older-model Chevrolet Caprice,'' but it was described as burgundy-colored.

In an Oct. 13 interview on CNN, Montgomery Police Chief Charles Moose was asked about the report of a Caprice leaving the scene of the slaying in Washington. Moose said task-force investigators were aware of the sighting, but he played it down, saying there was ``not a big push for public feedback on that.''

Ramsey noted Friday that Washington police never gave up on the possibility that a Caprice was involved and reissued the alert 10 days ago.

The police sightings of the Caprice began as early as Oct. 3, the deadliest day of the shooting spree, when a Montgomery County patrol officer took note of the car for unknown reasons but found no basis to detain the driver or write a ticket. A Washington officer would also run the license that day.

On Oct. 8, a Baltimore police officer stopped the Caprice and interviewed the man at the wheel, John Allen Muhammad, but sent him on his way. The car was seen again in Baileys Crossroads in Fairfax County, Va., and then on Oct. 21 at Tysons Corner in Virginia, where a red-light camera snapped its picture.
 
Originally posted by EROS
OK, let's CELEBRATE, bury our heads in the sand (DISers do that sooooooooooooooo well), and not bother to evaluate whether better investigative work could have saved some of the 10 lives which were tragically lost:( :( :( :( ..........

EROS - I have read your thread and your replies, and I AM a native Virginian, and I agree with most of what you said. I disagree with AirForce Rocks comments that everyone on and around the Beltway think "Chief Moose Rocks!" I think he ought to be ousted, for major incompetence. Not only were his press conferences an embarassment to listen to (he could not speak intelligible sentences) the information he gave out was far too much. And yes, the snipers, whom I originally posted as a thread as being identified and changed to "possibly id'd" after getting flamed for saying that they were though noconfirmation had been provided.........

Chief Moose is the chief of Police for one of the most affluent communities in this country, yet he could not utter one sentence that did not say "dat", "dis," or "doh". The sniper complained that the chief's telephone operators at Montgomery Co., MD, hung up on him or didn't treat his requests fairly clearly represents a chief who does not have any control of his own incompetent personnel. Chief Moose had the entire Eastern seaboard looking for white vans and white box trucks - and they had nothing to do with the case. He was led around by the nose, and, had it not been for the sniper opening up communications and, stupidly, asking for money, we would not have caught them.

Oh and by the way, the Montgomery County MD police didn't catch them - the feds did. And they are in custody in federal holding cells. It will be either VA or the feds who administer justice to these evil scumbags, not MD.

Yes, I am HAPPY and thrilled the snipers were caught! But just as with 9-11, we could have and should have done more to catch them earlier. Review of this case will prove out.

I am not dissing anyone on this board just offering my opinion.
 

Thanks, disneyispi:D :D . Perhaps NONE of the 10 tragic victims could have been saved. However, we OWE it to them to look critically at the process of the investigation as well as the well-reported friction between the multiple agencies involved.
 
It's great to be a "Monday morning quarterback" isn't it? Good Doctor, have you EVER made a wrong diagnosis? Perhaps we should send the FEDS in to do a comprehensive investigation on your own personal theories that failed? Afterall, we owe it to your patients don't we?:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I'm glad they caught them and I feel the powers to be did all that they were capable of.

Chief Moose is the chief of Police for one of the most affluent communities in this country, yet he could not utter one sentence that did not say "dat", "dis," or "doh".

disneyispi, are you saying that you have a problem with the way a person speaks? Maybe I'm not following you but what does the per capita income of a town or area have to do with the speech of an officer of the law of that area? He was speaking in front of millions of viewers, me included, and I understood what he meant. I'm not sure where you were going with that comment. :confused: :confused:

Chief Moose had the entire Eastern seaboard looking for white vans and white box trucks - and they had nothing to do with the case. He was led around by the nose, and, had it not been for the sniper opening up communications and, stupidly, asking for money, we would not have caught them.

So, I guess you will be enjoying the $500,000 reward since YOU were all knowing of the Blue Caprice? I just find it entertaining that someone as educated as you didn't inform the proper authorities to catch the sniper after the 1st shooting!:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I am not dissing anyone on this board just offering my opinion.

Me too! Sheesh!

Adam aka Big Dude
 
disagree with AirForce Rocks comments that everyone on and around the Beltway think "Chief Moose Rocks!" I think he ought to be ousted, for major incompetence.

Actually, it was me who made the comment that we inside the beltway think Chief Moose Rocks. Sorry that you are an exception. This is the hardest kind of case to crack, stranger killing stranger, with no apparent motive or demographic preference. The police did a fine job.

Everybody's an expert after the fact....... :rolleyes:
 
OK, let's CELEBRATE, bury our heads in the sand (DISers do that sooooooooooooooo well), and not bother to evaluate whether better investigative work could have saved some of the 10 lives which were tragically lost

How dare you insinuate that any of us have celebrated the death of 10 people, EROS???? These people were MY neighbors, they could have been ME or any of MY loved ones. I am not celebrating their deaths, merely celebrating that the police have put an end to the terror we in the Washingotn area felt during those terrible three weeks this wacko was on a killing spree. I MOURN these victims, and I have nothing but sadness in my heart for their families.

I think you should be careful of what you write, because you are very closely hindering on personal attack, imo. :( :( :(
 
EROS, dare I say that police, like doctors are not infallible? I would even venture to say that there are many more lawsuits regarding error in your profession than the police.

No one is perfect. Let's just be thankful that the perpetrators (or alleged if anyone believes that) are caught and their reign of terror is over. It's easy to sit here and criticize when we weren't part of the process, isn't it?
Cathy
 
The next time a doctor does his best to provide a cure for an ill patient, I'll be thinking of you, EROS. I'll be wondering if the doctor should be taking ANY of the credit at all......the meds are provided by a company that put hard cash up to do research, FDA approval and manufacturing.......the nurse does all of the priliminary and followup procedures as well as a host of comforting.....the technicians test and evaluate to make sure that the patient's vitals and other stats are up to snuff......yeah, I'll be thinking of you......

Perhaps walking a mile in another's set of shoes would be helpful for all of us.

Monday morning quarterbacking is an art.....not a science.
 
Excuse me, SNOOPY, I've offered no PERSONAL attack. I resent your insinuation. I didn't imply that ANYONE should "celebrate" the deaths of the 10 people lost. Shame on you. I was referring to the "celebration" by many over the conclusion of this horrible terror.

I'm not in law enforcement, but I have spent 20 years in medicine. We CONSTANTLY review our diagnoses and attempt to learn from our mistakes.Every death in our hospital is independently reviewed and often correlated with autopsy results. Instead of GLORIFYING the efforts of the many agencies involved in this case, I feel that we should scrutinize their efforts..............TO LEARN!!!!!!!!!!!!

I feel the same way about the apocalypse of Sept 11, 2001. It has become clear that many of our most trusted Federal agencies were sloppy and in poor communication.

As I said, many DISers just prefer to bury their heads in the sand. Not me..........
 
Shame on ME? Uh, I don't think so EROS. Your damn right I celebrated a conclusion to this case. After you've zig zagged through parking lots for 3 weeks and sent your kids off to school when a killer is shooting kids, you tend to celebrate when its over.

I'm not in law enforcement

Nope, you're not.

Like I said, everyone is an expert after the fact. :(
 
Then please enjoy your celebration.

I'm happy for the millions who no longer have to face terror every day, but I mourn the 10 citizens who died as well. Perhaps some of their lives COULD have been saved. I guess that you just don't want to accept that possibility:( :( .......
 
There you go again, EROS, insinuating that I somehow have forgotten the 10 innocent people who lost their lives. :rolleyes:

What I celebrate is that it ended with 10, not 20 or 30 or more. :rolleyes: And I celebrate that the police acted swiftly in aprehending this monstor who killed these people and wreaked terror all over the city I live in.

So thank you, I will enjoy my celebration. You sit up there in Boston and continue to offer your armchair analysis, because you read a newspaper so you must know best. :rolleyes:
 
By Lyndsey Layton and Hamil R. Harris
Washington Post Staff Writers
Sunday, October 27, 2002; Page C01



They buried the last victim of the serial sniper yesterday, a bus driver whose slaying reverberated so widely that his three-hour funeral drew the overflow crowds and lengthy tributes more often reserved for dignitaries.

Conrad E. Johnson, a 35-year-old son of Jamaican immigrants and an Oxon Hill resident, was remembered as a working man who prided himself on his pot roast and curried chicken, loved to challenge his two young sons on the basketball court and romanced his wife from the moment they met in high school 17 years ago.

Nearly 2,000 people came to Glendale Baptist Church for the funeral yesterday. Johnson's death touched a chord in the working community -- the people who take the early bus, who wear uniforms, whose jobs seldom inspire envy.

"Conrad Johnson was at work when many of us were still sleeping," said Pastor Anthony G. Maclin of Glendale Baptist. "We need to show kindness, especially to people who serve. Perhaps we don't know their names. Perhaps they don't appear on television. . . . So many depend on people like Conrad Johnson, who faced his final moment standing on his feet."

Johnson was standing on the top step of his Ride On bus before dawn Tuesday, preparing for his first run of the day, when he was shot and killed. He had been a bus driver for 10 years, following in the footsteps of his stepfather, Tyrone Wills, who was recently promoted from bus driver to scheduler.

It was the 10th and final funeral attended by Montgomery County Executive Douglas M. Duncan since the sniper began the shootings that terrorized the region for three weeks.

As he spoke from the pulpit, Duncan's face reddened, and he broke into tears. "When I met the Johnson family at the hospital, they said, 'Catch him,' " Duncan said as he started to choke on his words. "Here we are today. I'm finally able to say this: We caught him."

Applause ripped through the large church, and people bounded to their feet.

"We caught them for you," Duncan shouted, pointing a finger at the congregation. "We caught them for Conrad, so they will never, ever be able to do this again."

But the relief of an arrest did not temper the sense of loss. "It doesn't make it any easier," said Braxton Wiggins, an operator with Ride On. "You've just lost someone who can't come back. It's nonreturnable."

Hundreds of bus drivers in ironed blue uniforms packed the church and stood three deep in the aisles. Those who couldn't fit inside the main sanctuary or the overflow room below milled around in the parking lot.

The day began with a slow, sad cortege of 30 buses representing 14 bus systems. They traveled 17 miles from the Silver Spring Metro station to the church in Landover. Every type of bus claimed a place in line -- shuttles for the elderly, minibuses, 40-foot transit vehicles, plush commuter coaches, diesel workhorses, brand-new natural gas buses. Black streamers dangled from side mirrors.

As the line of buses rolled along Colesville Road toward the Capital Beltway, people on the sidewalk stood at attention and waved small American flags.

"It could have been any of us," said C.B. Carter, a Metrobus supervisor who carried an envelope stuffed with $135 in cash -- donations for Johnson's family made by passengers. "When you're driving a bus, it's no different here than in Indiana or Florida or California."

Seven employees from the tiny South Bend, Ind., bus system drove 12 hours for 611 miles to reach the funeral. "He was a brother union man," said Alfonza Ward, one of the South Bend drivers, explaining why he made the trip.

Ride On operated a limited schedule yesterday to allow employees to attend the funeral. Rides were free all day in honor of Johnson. At noon, Ride On operators who were working pulled their buses to the side of the road to observe a minute of silence.

Robert Quander, a 64-year-old Ride On driver, said he's found kindness in the days since Johnson's slaying. "A lot of people we don't know have come up and given their condolences," he said. "This week has been special because they have made bus drivers feel like special people."

Johnson came from a large family, with aunts and uncles who have lilting Jamaican accents. His relatives filled 23 pews in the church.

Known to friends and family as "CeeJay," Johnson was devoted to his wife, Denise. On her last birthday, Feb. 15, Johnson called her from his bus and prompted his busload of passengers to sing "Happy Birthday" into the cellular phone.

Johnson and seven or eight other bus operators would get together on Friday nights, just because they enjoyed each other's company. In the small Silver Spring bus garage where they were based, the line between work and private time blurred.

"We'd just sit and talk and laugh about what was going on at work," said Nelvin Ransome, one of the group. "We'd have cookouts or fish fries or play basketball. We became friends. There was something about Conrad that drew you to him."

His warm demeanor earned him fans on the job as well. When he was preparing to start his route, Johnson would let children waiting for their school bus keep warm inside his idling transit bus. At Christmas, some passengers baked him cakes, Duncan said. After the shooting, his regular riders on Ride On Route 34 were in tears.

He was a strapping man, a weightlifter and athlete. Several of the 13- and 14-year-old boys he coached in basketball at the Fort Washington Boys and Girls Club attended the funeral. Teary-eyed, they presented a plaque to Denise Johnson, who gave each of them a long hug.

Conrad Johnson took his last ride yesterday in a white hearse, escorted to the Resurrection Cemetery in Clinton by a mile-long line of buses.
 
Time out here guys!!

EROS, the fact that the snipers were caught is a relief to all, especially those in the area and until you walk a mile in their shoes......

Do you really think that the police force was inept? Were you part of the team that desperately sought to stop this madness and were you privvy to the information that they had?? (Rhetorical question).

You say you choose NOT to bury your head in the sand like all DISers (and I am sure I am not the only one who resents you lumping people together like that!). So what exactly do you propose to do? Complain about it on a Disney fan bulletin board, or take further action???

Just curious
Cathy
 
Actually I think quoting from the Washington Post is great! Here is one I particularly like

Rick WeissWashington Post Staff Writer
November 30, 1999; Page A1
Section: A Section
Word Count: 1121

As many as 98,000 Americans die unnecessarily every year from medical mistakes made by physicians, pharmacists and other health care professionals, according to an independent report released yesterday that calls for a major overhaul of how the nation addresses medical errors. More Americans die from medical mistakes than from breast cancer, highway accidents or AIDS, according to the report from the Institute of Medicine, an arm of the National Academy of Sciences


98,000..... 268 per day.... 11 per hour...

That's more deaths than are caused by ALL gun shot wounds making doctors more dangerous to your health than guns!



We CONSTANTLY review our diagnoses and attempt to learn from our mistakes.Every death in our hospital is independently reviewed and often correlated with autopsy results. Instead of GLORIFYING the efforts of the many agencies involved in this case, I feel that we should scrutinize their efforts..............TO LEARN!!!!!!!!!!!!


OH PLEASE!!!!!! Yes there are reviews but Physicians are FAMOUS for covering up for each other!! I really must not be getting a section of my paper because I never see the article where every one of the 268 physicians that made a mistake that DAY are hung out to dry in public!

If someone survives Cancer are they allowed to celebrate?? Are they allowed to talk about their wonderful Doctor and how great he is or do they have to feel bad for the other cancer patients that died due to physician negligence?

I haven't heard anyone say there will not be reviews! You know there will be. I have not hear anyone say that law enforcement did not make mistakes, they most certainly did. OF COURSE there will be reviews and studies and post mortems and analysis.

None of that means the survivors can't breath a sigh of relief and not drown in it for a bit! They are allowed to celebrate life.

Making something seem like an either/or choice when it's not is one of the oldest debate tricks in the book...
It's also one of the easiest to rip apart :)
 
Originally posted by WebmasterAlex


98,000..... 268 per day.... 11 per hour...

That's more deaths than are caused by ALL gun shot wounds making doctors more dangerous to your health than guns!
Oh my, I wonder how they would react with National press in their face 24 hours a day, while trying to catch a lunatic.
 
WebMasterCathyCanada, I didn't say that the sniper task force was inept. There were over 1,000 people in law enforcement DESPERATELY trying to find a killer(s). I'm sure that they exerted maximal effort, but that doesn't mean that mistakes were not made. Alex is right; dedicated and well-meaning professionals in medicine make mistakes every day. Sometimes the grievous errors DO end up on the front page.

After John Kennedy was assassinated, has the Secret Service allowed the President to parade in an open-air vehicle???? OF COURSE NOT .........

After Ronald Reagan was shot, has the Secret Service allowed the President's daily schedule to be published in the Washington Post?????OF COURSE NOT .

Sometimes, institutions LEARN from mistakes. HISTORY is a cruel teacher; when we DON'T learn, we make the SAME mistakes over and over.
 
I've been reading this post for a while and I don't know why everyone is disagreeing.

I mean, yes we are extremely grateful that the snipers were caught when they were. I didn't want it to go a minute longer, no one did. I'm glad all the authorities that had something to do with this were able to connect everything and catch them. I commend all the efforts.

No one is happy that 10 people died, or that an entire area was living in terror, or trying not to.

But, I find it hard for me to see how going over the whole investigation to see where/if there were any mistakes and how to prevent it from happening again is a bad thing.
I don't mean looking for scapegoats to blame any mistakes on, I would want to know where improvements could be made.

However, I imagine they are going through everything. Just not publicly. Can you imagine what the media would do with that kind of information?

okay, that was my .02cents worth. As you were.
 














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