TGM and UG-Do they pick the same days?

[Jalva22]

$20 isn't bad. How much do you pay for your UG?

$7.95 for UG website. Free if you already have the book. If you subscribe to allearsnet's weekly newsletter, you get a discount off this price to make $6 and change. They include touring plans for literally dozens of situations. The "why's" are not included on the website, but if you pick up a copy of the UG and read it then you will understand very quickley all the why's that go into it. It's an excellent resource and served us extremely well in a busy June season just a couple of years ago. The only time I faced a long line was when I strayed from the plan. And, the book does explain what to do should you get off track.

 

[Jalva22]

From my experience TGM has more information that Allearnet does though I do agree that thier format is nice. As for why the "site that can not be named" is blocked it just doesn't make any sense.

I emailed the UG and received the following response:

Hey Jim,

Thanks very much for the kind email. Yeah, I'm aware of the Disboards
block. It's because they're getting paid by TourGuideMike to sponsor
the forums, and
apparently TourGuideMike can't handle the competition.

Incidentally, we still mention both Disboards and one of their travel
company's agents in the Guide despite the censorship, which should tell you all you need to know about the governing ethos of us and Disboards. We believe the Disboards offers some value to our readers, so we mention it in the book even though their site promotes a Guide competitor. Disboards' owner apparently thinks advetising revenue is more important than allowing users to recommend useful information to others.

Feel free to post any of this in any online forum you wish. I like
*************
and Mousepad.Mouseplanet.com's forums, if you're looking for alternatives.

Finally, thanks very much for using the book and website. I apologize for the
podcast. ;-)

Sincerely,

Len Testa


I posted the same question on the technical support board here and received a pm that basically said they only block websites after much consideration and both parties know why. They then said it's not open for discussion on the boards and that my thread had been deleted. (Incidentally, they also blocked the wdw magic alternative site named above, which is an excellent site.) So, in summary, I fully expect this post to be deleted, but I believe the disboards community has a right to know this information. Finally, LEN ONLY MENTIONED ALTERNATIVE WEBSITES BECAUSE I REQUESTED SOME. HE'S NOT TRYING TO STEER ANY OF US AWAY FROM DISBOARDS.

 

[DebIreland]

That's so sad about the UG block. Len Testa (from the Unofficial Guide) was a great asset to the DIS and provided many, many DIS members with valuable information.

 

[beachblanket]

If you've been to Disney a few times, you already know what he is telling you, avoid the parks on early or late days, and go the day after. Wow, I'd pay $20 for that info again.

The above appears to be imply that EHM mornings/nights are the only or primary factor afffecting "what park on what day."

I don't agree, and the gospel TGM preaches goes much deeper than that.

He assesses each specific park on each day (not simply labeling "good/bad" as UG does), with context on why it is rated as it is (which includes much more than just "is/was there an EMH"), and even "tradeoff" discussion (ergo, a park is rated as so-so, but if you must go, here's the strategy, etc.) On one single web page, he paints a concise but detailed assessment that covers many dynamics.

Yes, after first using that particular page on his site, I initially thought "O.K., I get the formula." But TGM subsequently surprised me; when Disney changed park hours a few weeks before my trip, he came right back with an assessment that actually took into account new additional factors, ones that weren't in my initial "interpreted algorithm."

Bottom line: there really is an art and science to "what park on what day," and I sleep well being armed with the most discerning version of that available.

 

[labattblue]

Thanks for the info.

I emailed the UG and received the following response:

Hey Jim,

Thanks very much for the kind email. Yeah, I'm aware of the Disboards
block. It's because they're getting paid by TourGuideMike to sponsor
the forums, and
apparently TourGuideMike can't handle the competition.

Incidentally, we still mention both Disboards and one of their travel
company's agents in the Guide despite the censorship, which should tell you all you need to know about the governing ethos of us and Disboards. We believe the Disboards offers some value to our readers, so we mention it in the book even though their site promotes a Guide competitor. Disboards' owner apparently thinks advetising revenue is more important than allowing users to recommend useful information to others.

Feel free to post any of this in any online forum you wish. I like
*************
and Mousepad.Mouseplanet.com's forums, if you're looking for alternatives.

Finally, thanks very much for using the book and website. I apologize for the
podcast. ;-)

Sincerely,

Len Testa


I posted the same question on the technical support board here and received a pm that basically said they only block websites after much consideration and both parties know why. They then said it's not open for discussion on the boards and that my thread had been deleted. (Incidentally, they also blocked the wdw magic alternative site named above, which is an excellent site.) So, in summary, I fully expect this post to be deleted, but I believe the disboards community has a right to know this information. Finally, LEN ONLY MENTIONED ALTERNATIVE WEBSITES BECAUSE I REQUESTED SOME. HE'S NOT TRYING TO STEER ANY OF US AWAY FROM DISBOARDS.

 

[Disneyhappy]

I emailed the UG and received the following response:

Hey Jim,

Thanks very much for the kind email. Yeah, I'm aware of the Disboards
block. It's because they're getting paid by TourGuideMike to sponsor
the forums, and
apparently TourGuideMike can't handle the competition.

Incidentally, we still mention both Disboards and one of their travel
company's agents in the Guide despite the censorship, which should tell you all you need to know about the governing ethos of us and Disboards. We believe the Disboards offers some value to our readers, so we mention it in the book even though their site promotes a Guide competitor. Disboards' owner apparently thinks advetising revenue is more important than allowing users to recommend useful information to others.

Feel free to post any of this in any online forum you wish. I like
*************
and Mousepad.Mouseplanet.com's forums, if you're looking for alternatives.

Finally, thanks very much for using the book and website. I apologize for the
podcast. ;-)

Sincerely,

Len Testa


I posted the same question on the technical support board here and received a pm that basically said they only block websites after much consideration and both parties know why. They then said it's not open for discussion on the boards and that my thread had been deleted. (Incidentally, they also blocked the wdw magic alternative site named above, which is an excellent site.) So, in summary, I fully expect this post to be deleted, but I believe the disboards community has a right to know this information. Finally, LEN ONLY MENTIONED ALTERNATIVE WEBSITES BECAUSE I REQUESTED SOME. HE'S NOT TRYING TO STEER ANY OF US AWAY FROM DISBOARDS.

The above quoted e-mail from UG may not bother anyone else but the nice things I felt and said int he past about UG went out the window with the sarcastic statement of "It's because they're getting paid by TourGuideMike to sponsor
the forums, and
apparently TourGuideMike can't handle the competition."
For me personally, that statement is petty and unprofessional. Definitely not someone I want to give my money to. I was a fan of both resources and didn't criticize either one. I honestly think that TGM probably has more class than to write something like that to a customer. I know the one less book purchased by me a year and subcription to their site is a drop in the bucket to UG. I'm a sensitive soul so please keep the flames at a low level!

 

[MagicForMe]

For me personally, that statement is petty and unprofessional...... I honestly think that TGM probably has more class than to write something like that to a customer.

No flames from me but I do respectfully disagree. I have seen TGM's responses on his forums to anyone who dares to criticize his service and he does not hold back. He lashes out at them and offers to refund them straight away as he prefers to part company with customers than to hear one word of criticizm about his website. Last year, I read a post from a new member asking why the Food & Wine Festival information wasn't more up to date. Instead of just disagreeing with the poster or explaining TGM wrote a long, long rant about how he wanted to part company with this person and would refund his money immediately, no choice on the poster's part. It was the single, most unprofessional thing I have ever witnessed in any business. Incredibly rude.

Len Testa's response was 100% accurate. As soon as TGM signed up here as a sponsor, it was him and nobody else and any poster just trying to share info on UG had the links in their posts blocked. No doubt, part of TGMs deal was that the UG links would be blocked - therefore I really do think Len Testa is being fair when he says TGM cannot handle the competition.

 

[bosox18]

The above quoted e-mail from UG may not bother anyone else but the nice things I felt and said int he past about UG went out the window with the sarcastic statement of "It's because they're getting paid by TourGuideMike to sponsor
the forums, and
apparently TourGuideMike can't handle the competition."
For me personally, that statement is petty and unprofessional. Definitely not someone I want to give my money to. I was a fan of both resources and didn't criticize either one. I honestly think that TGM probably has more class than to write something like that to a customer. I know the one less book purchased by me a year and subcription to their site is a drop in the bucket to UG. I'm a sensitive soul so please keep the flames at a low level!

I've only been on this board for a relatively short time, but it has bothered me from the beginning that what I thought of as an unbiased sharing of information, a community of Disney lovers, was actively holding back information that could be helpful. Didn't understand why someone would bring up the UG site and it would be *******. Don't care who the sponsor is, that shouldn't happen on a supposedly open message board, unless the ****** is a profanity.

 

[bradk]

I have seen TGM's responses on his forums to anyone who dares to criticize his service and he does not hold back. He lashes out at them and offers to refund them straight away as he prefers to part company with customers than to hear one word of criticizm about his website. Last year, I read a post from a new member asking why the Food & Wine Festival information wasn't more up to date. Instead of just disagreeing with the poster or explaining TGM wrote a long, long rant about how he wanted to part company with this person and would refund his money immediately, no choice on the poster's part. It was the single, most unprofessional thing I have ever witnessed in any business. Incredibly rude.

I would love more details on this. I have been a multi-trip subscriber to TGM for about 2 years and have NEVER seen this type of response from TGM. I have seen him get frustrated by people asking questions that would have been answered by reading his articles, but never irrationally lashing out at anyone with a legitimate complaint (if anything, his responses have bordered on self-deprecating). in fact, after one subscriber recently complained on here about the content and was advised to post it on TGM's forums, he DID respond.. with empathy. and explained things further. whether it satisifed the OP, I do not know, but he certainly did nothing of the sort you accuse him of doing.

what's funny is, since I started watching the DIS, most notably these threads, there have been people who aggressively attack TGM and base these on 'personal experiences,' yet at least half the time, these experiences can't be validated. and the agitator refuses to assist in validating these complaints. still waiting for tam(something) to identify herself on the TGM forums so I can see the problems she's had and one major anti-TGMer I know of on here still has an account on TGM, suggesting he never even bothered to ask for a refund, although he has all of 2 posts on the forums there.

Len Testa's response was 100% accurate. As soon as TGM signed up here as a sponsor, it was him and nobody else and any poster just trying to share info on UG had the links in their posts blocked. No doubt, part of TGMs deal was that the UG links would be blocked - therefore I really do think Len Testa is being fair when he says TGM cannot handle the competition.

For all anyone knows, it could have been a DIS suggestion. either way, DIS is a private forum, not public, so whatever they decide, that's what the users abide by. I'm no fan of censoring the site's name. But Testa's response was in fact petty and unprofessional, but his guidebook with references to a pot smoking pal mickey haven't exactly been regarded as the most professional either all the time. that's what he's known for. in any case, the 'he started argument' doesn't work for 4 year olds, it shouldn't work for adults. neither side is purely innocent here. but it wouldn't kill someone to be a better man about it.

 

[rie'smom]

Somehow I doubt the DIS would allow Mike or anyone to tell them how to run the site. It's the right of the owner of any website to allow or not to allow access or to block websites.
When I first subscribed to Mike's site, it was too close to my trip and I didn't have the time to go through his info. I emailed him and he very graciously offered me a refund.
Since that time,I have resubscribed 3 more times. I do not patronize the businesses of people who have "attitude". If Mike had not been nice,I would not have subscribed again.

 

[88Keys]

But Testa's response was in fact petty and unprofessional, .

You all have got to be kidding me. Unprofessional??!! Len is considered by many as a HUGE help towards planning WDW vacations. You have apparantly only been on the boards since March -- Before the lovely TGM banner was posted (and before you think I am completely biased, I was a TGM subscriber twice -- I then realized that for the same money I got an actual book and free access to specific touring plans) Len would constantly be around to offer free advice, input and just all around fun on these boards. What I consider professional is the fact that Len recognizes that first and foremost is the customer needing help, so he STILL mentions the DIS in his book (which is no insignificant fact -- I have a feeling MANY folks joined the DIS because of it -- I did) and on his podcast.

The DIS and TGM (I have a feeling that all of this would not have happened without the request of TGM -- the DIS would not have censored tringplans without being nudged) however, are the ones being petty -- we as users are prevented from directly discussing a MAJOR resource and innoventor in touring, research, and maximizing your Disney Dollars on a premiere planning board because poor Mike doesn't want competition (maybe if he spent more time updating his website and making it easier to navigate and less time vowing people to secrecy -- (really, Mike, I should go to Space Mountain first? Your secret is safe with me) and sticking "my name" in every other line and yelling at constructive criticism...)

Supporting the customers -- the afficianados -- even when banned from a website for purely commercial reasons is professional and courteous. Banning info from a marketplace of ideas because of fear of competition is petty.


I love the DIS but shame on this. Yeah Len, Boo Mike!

 

[Camping Griswalds]

Somehow this is turning into a TGM vs UG nasty debate.

I use UG and enjoy it, but feel it's just to enjoy a read before I go on vacation. I have been to Disney World 10-12 times in last 8 years, and really feel that there is very little I can be taught new that is not mentioned on these boards. I am constantly recomending them to people, but have had multiple people state that they cannot stand the attacks aka flames that get stated on many of these forums.

As far as TGM goes, i have not subscribed, solely because what people seem to complain the most about is that it has a lot of old info, and that I don't need any help with. Best parks on best days seems wonderful , but really the best piece of advice is, "go in the off season" and you don't have to worry so much. I understand that is not allways possible, but it's what I take advantage of in January. I may look over there, because we are staying off site when we visit in 2008, and may need some different ideas, but will ask for a refund if it gets nasty.

At least here on the DIS if it's nasty, I did not pay for it!

I do miss Len Testa. He was always friendly and respectful here on these boards. Does TGM ever talk here ?

Lastly, I certainly am saddened by the thought that UG is blocked. If this is the best "Unofficial" site, you should be able to post about any good deals, or findings etc, even if it comes from a sponsors competitor.

 

[88Keys]

Somehow I doubt the DIS would allow Mike or anyone to tell them how to run the site.

Why else would they ban references to the tringplans site?


Except for pressure from TGM in exchange for his advertising dollars.

 

[bradk]

there is no need to disregard what i've said in order to make a point. yes, i've only been active on here for this month (and my posts per day ratio should invoke cringing), but i've been just as negative about the unofficial guide as I have been about TGM (read: not much). both are good (i just believe I told someone here a day or 2 ago to go buy the guide) and BOTH have faults. i'm not blind to either. fact is, before TP stopped making the best days chart free, i would often direct people to the site on other forums i've been active on for years.

i've even said on here that i used to subscribe to TP and I was perfectly happy with it. I've never told anyone NOT to sign up for TP on here. but I'm also trying to keep things honest.

is TGM out of date? in some parts, yes. is the current edition of the UG out of date? in some parts yes (case in point, it refers to the free universal xpress option even though that was done away with in summer 2005. it also refers to the MGM parade being done away with?)

me calling that email from Len Testa petty has nothing to do with the content of either. first, i can only believe it's a large assumption that TGM specifically opted to have the site censored. I'm on no other forum or website where TGM has a commercial presence where I've seen such evidence. So unless he knows for a fact otherwise, yes, I believe it's petty for Testa to assume that's the case and to make a stink over it. and yes, the 'he just can't take competition' argument is what i expect someone's mother to say to a kid when he comes home crying from school cuz he was picked on by bullies.

let's be honest here. Testa has a huge advantage over TGM. he has a viable series of guidebooks in every stinkin bookstore across the country. very few people wouldn't recommend them (and i'm one that does recommend it).

so it just seems unnecessary to make personal digs like that. sorry, that's how i feel. if TGM came on here and said Testa was just being a big baby about it, I'd feel the same about him. It's just not professional. When did you see Lee Iacocca personally attack any of his competition, no matter how small or large it may have been?

 

[kaelarad]

I agree with some of the recent posters. Len has not been on these boards of late and I miss that! TGM is not on here offering us advice. I do think TGM is scared of some competition.

That said. there are a number of wonderful resources out there to help in planning the best WDW vacation possible. While UG or TGM may work for some and not for others we should respect the work they both do. As I said in an earlier post, I would not spend the money for outdated information. But others swear by him. Great!

Healthy debate is good. Personal attacks is not. Both have helped people plan trips and should be respected for what they and their product do in helping the magic of Disney come alive for us!

 

[88Keys]

there is no need to disregard what i've said in order to make a point. yes, i've only been active on here for this month (and my posts per day ratio should invoke cringing)

You misunderstood me -- I ws not saying to disregard what you had to say because you were new here -- I was saying that in days before you were here, Len would frequent the boards and offer TONS of FREE advice and that door his closed which I consider a huge loss. That's all -- just that you weren't around when we had this great resource.

 

[bradk]

well then i sympathize for your loss and i can understand why he'd be offended. i would be too. but i still think there would be more appropriate responses from him than spitting venom. you may not think any less of him for what that email said, but i would think more of him if he were more 'pc' (for lack of a better term) about it. that's all.

 

[Hidden_Mickey]

I love the UG. It worked for my last trip. It has a sense of humor so I'm wondering if the statements Len made in that e-mail were taken a little out of context. Maybe the "can't handle the competitiion" remark was an attempt at humor that got lost in the translation. You know how tone of voice sometimes can't be conveyed in the written word? That's all I'm saying. I'm sure he's not happy that he's not welcome here anymore - wouldn't you be upset? To some degree I can't blame him for his reaction, even if it was not tongue in cheek. I thoroughly enjoyed his presence here. He was knowledgable, helpful and fun to interact with. I have often wondered why Mike never joins us on the boards. You'd think the "official sponsor" would want to interact with us and show off his smarts and entice people to buy his product based on the "preview" he could provide here. Is it all about the fact that he wants you to pay to join his site and therefore will not give us one iota of information without ponying up some cash first? That leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I think healthy competition and the sharing of knowledge benefits everyone. If Mike insisted that the TP site be blocked, in exchange for his sponsorship, well the DIS has every right to make that deal for themselves but it doesn't give me a warm fuzzy about Mike. I'm sure he works for some people, but I think I'll pass for now.

 

[bradk]

in his defense, i think it's more along the lines that his bread & butter comes from his daily work of being in the parks providing private tours. so he really doesn't have the time advantage a book author might.

i don't think he's blind enough to think that if he couldn't be here as much as others can be that it wouldn't simply be more word of mouth advertising for him. it just doesn't fit his lifestyle. i can't really count that as a negative though.

i mean why doesn't disney employ one or two people to sit online and give the answers to the same questions that come up repeatedly. it probably would look very favorable for them, but is it a negative because they don't?

 

[HydroGuy]

Claim:

TGM cannot handle competition and so squashes alternative information sources

My Experience:

Absolutely untrue. I was a TGM subscriber for our trip in 2006 (and will be again in 2008). I also happen to be a fan of RideMax based on experience at DLR. For those who value TGM touring plans, RideMax would be considered a competitor to TGM.

In 2006 RideMax released their WDW version. I bought it and started several threads on TGM discussing what RideMax was about, and compared it to TGM in a general sense discussing relative strengths and weaknesses.

Several devoted TGMers jumped on me and tried to shout me down, but this was a minority of TGMers and most of them appreciated my posts.

What was interesting was that Mike himself PMed me several times, as did some of his staff, and all PMs were extremely open, professional, and friendly. Mike also defended my posts in the public threads, and told the more devoted TGMers that he appreciated their support (in trying to shout me down) but that my posts were not commercial in nature and were in keeping with TGM policy of open dialog.

I do not know why the UG links are blocked by DIS. I know that some of the UG authors said some things during public interviews last year which were, quite frankly, bizarre. Afterwards they said it was all a joke, but it sure did not sound that way. Perhaps that has something to do with the block.

In any case, from my experience I have a hard time believing the reason UG is blocked on DIS is because of TGM. I wish I knew the reason, but I do not think it is TGM.