Testing refusal rates in your district

[erin1715]

I'm also in NY and see first hand what Cuomo is doing to our public education system. These bureaucrats are making decisions when they have NO clue what goes on inside the classroom.

In our county, one affluent school district is constantly getting awards for being nationally ranked because of how well their students do, while another district (where every kid is on free lunch in a school with 1000+ kids) never gets recognized. Can people honestly believe that the affluent district really has that many teachers who are superior than the lower income district?? If you go by the state evaluation system, that is exactly what the data will show. Teachers who work in wealthy districts have the advantage. Cuomo has his head blissfully buried in the sand. He completely ignores the fact that poverty is the reason for our failing schools. Period. Cuomo cannot get out of office fast enough, IMO. Lord help us all if he ever runs for President.

 

[Kbee]

WHY do the teachers have no knowledge of what's on the test? Shouldn't they know ahead of time what's going to be covered? If they don't, IMO, that's not the fault of the test, that's the fault of whoever made the decision to keep the teacher out of the loop. No, they don't need the exact questions, but they should get an idea (and sample question) of what's going to be covered.

I was wondering how it is the teacher's don't know what is on the test either. If we have implemented CC standards and all 5th graders across the state are expected to know X,Y and Z, doesn't the test reflect what they should be learning in the classroom? Also, how to they teach to the test (a very common argument) when they don't know what is on the test?
I mentioned my friend is a teacher in the other thread, but I didn't ask her because she clearly was upset about it and I didn't want to upset her even more.
FTR, I do not support the way these tests are being used to evaluate the teachers, but I did not opt my child out.

 

[Tinijocaro]

Can people honestly believe that the affluent district really has that many teachers who are superior than the lower income district?? If you go by the state evaluation system, that is exactly what the data will show. Teachers who work in wealthy districts have the advantage. Cuomo has his head blissfully buried in the sand. He completely ignores the fact that poverty is the reason for our failing schools. Period. Cuomo cannot get out of office fast enough, IMO. Lord help us all if he ever runs for President.

This is huge. I teach in 4 elementary schools. One building has many very poor children with rough family lives. Another building is fairly affluent. In the lower income school, my orchestra students don't do nearly as well as the students in the affluent school. I teach the same curriculum, I teach the same way in all four of my schools. It has been this way since I started. No, actually, I have learned that I can expect less of most of my students in the poor school. Things are going to take longer for them to learn. There is always an occasional student who has an awesome background-family support who does well but they are infrequent.

Am I a better teacher at one school than the other? Cuomo has not addressed poverty as being the leading cause of the failing schools in NY state. He chooses to blame teachers. He also claims schools in NY state are failing when in fact, only 4% of schools in our state are failing. 4%! NY has typically been top in the country for education but Cuomo would have everyone believe that we are failing our kids here.

 

[nugov2]

I'm also in NY and see first hand what Cuomo is doing to our public education system. These bureaucrats are making decisions when they have NO clue what goes on inside the classroom.

In our county, one affluent school district is constantly getting awards for being nationally ranked because of how well their students do, while another district (where every kid is on free lunch in a school with 1000+ kids) never gets recognized. Can people honestly believe that the affluent district really has that many teachers who are superior than the lower income district?? If you go by the state evaluation system, that is exactly what the data will show. Teachers who work in wealthy districts have the advantage. Cuomo has his head blissfully buried in the sand. He completely ignores the fact that poverty is the reason for our failing schools. Period. Cuomo cannot get out of office fast enough, IMO. Lord help us all if he ever runs for President.

Then why are you protesting the test? Wouldn't it make more sense to protest what you are really against? Your real issues are being lost in the anti parcc movement. The arguments are all over the place. The test is too hard then it is the test is too high stakes. You need to organize yourselves better and protest the right issues and I'd bet more notice would be taken. Release emails of teachers being directed to ignore IEPS and you'll have support across the country.

I was wondering how it is the teacher's don't know what is on the test either. If we have implemented CC standards and all 5th graders across the state are expected to know X,Y and Z, doesn't the test reflect what they should be learning in the classroom? Also, how to they teach to the test (a very common argument) when they don't know what is on the test?
I mentioned my friend is a teacher in the other thread, but I didn't ask her because she clearly was upset about it and I didn't want to upset her even more.
FTR, I do not support the way these tests are being used to evaluate the teachers, but I did not opt my child out.

That is my biggest issues with this opt out movement. Everyone is constantly contradicting themselves and many classroom teachers are making themselves look bad because they are making awful decisions. I'm sorry when a teacher posts her students will lose services for the duration of the test I blame the teachers. When I read a teacher had students crying because they are afraid their teacher will lose their job, I blame the adults who put this information in their heads. When a teacher shares a story of a practice test gone wrong because computers weren't updated and kids were crying and getting frustrated I blame the teachers allowing their students to sit through that. I think a good number of teachers are taking advantage of problems and make them bigger and causing unnecessary stress on their students to push their agenda against high stake testing and that is wrong. You should be protecting your students from it not pushing them through knowingly awful situations to say see look how bad it is. Look how much it upset my students. That disgusts me.

I taught in a school that I can say confidently that would not happen and our principal wouldn't support any teacher doing that to the kids. I think a lot of people need to take their responsibility in the mess. Obviously NY haso big issues from Cuomo to the teachers using students as pawns. Sad for those students living in that state. Honestly it is why I don't like the teachers union. They are out for them and their profits and will use teachers and students as pawns to do what is right for them not the kids and teachers. Now we have teachers pulling the same tactic. Pushing their agenda, (even if it is right that the test is too high stakes)no matter who they hurt.

 

[Tinijocaro]

Then why are you protesting the test? Wouldn't it make more sense to protest what you are really against? Your real issues are being lost in the anti parcc movement. The arguments are all over the place. The test is too hard then it is the test is too high stakes. You need to organize yourselves better and protest the right issues and I'd bet more notice would be taken. Release emails of teachers being directed to ignore IEPS and you'll have support across the country.

This is a very large, multi-faceted issue. It isn't just about Cuomo, it's about how horrible the tests are, it's about how the tests are being used to punish, it's about how Corporate America is attempting to take over public schools, it's about how the tests defy the way children learn, it's about data mining, how the tests don't even measure what they claim to measure (and we teachers are going to be evaluated on THAT?)....there ARE so many issues that surround the refusals.

Refusing the test, as I've said before, is our most powerful way to get Albany to stand up and take notice-to truly listen to the people who are teaching and consider what they have to say. Let them have input on what goes into these tests. We need to go back to ground zero and start over.

 

[mom2rtk]

That is my biggest issues with this opt out movement. Everyone is constantly contradicting themselves and many classroom teachers are making themselves look bad because they are making awful decisions. I'm sorry when a teacher posts her students will lose services for the duration of the test I blame the teachers. When I read a teacher had students crying because they are afraid their teacher will lose their job, I blame the adults who put this information in their heads. When a teacher shares a story of a practice test gone wrong because computers weren't updated and kids were crying and getting frustrated I blame the teachers allowing their students to sit through that. I think a good number of teachers are taking advantage of problems and make them bigger and causing unnecessary stress on their students to push their agenda against high stake testing and that is wrong. You should be protecting your students from it not pushing them through knowingly awful situations to say see look how bad it is. Look how much it upset my students. That disgusts me.

I taught in a school that I can say confidently that would not happen and our principal wouldn't support any teacher doing that to the kids. I think a lot of people need to take their responsibility in the mess. Obviously NY haso big issues from Cuomo to the teachers using students as pawns. Sad for those students living in that state. Honestly it is why I don't like the teachers union. They are out for them and their profits and will use teachers and students as pawns to do what is right for them not the kids and teachers. Now we have teachers pulling the same tactic. Pushing their agenda, (even if it is right that the test is too high stakes)no matter who they hurt.

I too am disgusted by what it's starting to seem like the adults are doing to these kids.

They need to keep their agenda out of the classroom.

It seems to me it's all about what's best for the kids. Until it comes to what's best for them.

 

[Kbee]

Refusing the test, as I've said before, is our most powerful way to get Albany to stand up and take notice-to truly listen to the people who are teaching and consider what they have to say. Let them have input on what goes into these tests. We need to go back to ground zero and start over.

But the ones teaching aren't refusing the tests, the kids are. You have your union to speak up for you, using the kids (and parents) can come across as you just using them as pawns in your agenda.
If you truly want to make a statement as a teacher, why don't you guys refuse to give the test?

 

[undertheradar]

This is a very large, multi-faceted issue. It isn't just about Cuomo, it's about how horrible the tests are, it's about how the tests are being used to punish, it's about how Corporate America is attempting to take over public schools, it's about how the tests defy the way children learn, it's about data mining, how the tests don't even measure what they claim to measure (and we teachers are going to be evaluated on THAT?)....there ARE so many issues that surround the refusals.

Refusing the test, as I've said before, is our most powerful way to get Albany to stand up and take notice-to truly listen to the people who are teaching and consider what they have to say. Let them have input on what goes into these tests. We need to go back to ground zero and start over.

You do understand that the teachers union is part of "Corporate America?"

 

[nugov2]

This is a very large, multi-faceted issue. It isn't just about Cuomo, it's about how horrible the tests are, it's about how the tests are being used to punish, it's about how Corporate America is attempting to take over public schools, it's about how the tests defy the way children learn, it's about data mining, how the tests don't even measure what they claim to measure (and we teachers are going to be evaluated on THAT?)....there ARE so many issues that surround the refusals.

Refusing the test, as I've said before, is our most powerful way to get Albany to stand up and take notice-to truly listen to the people who are teaching and consider what they have to say. Let them have input on what goes into these tests. We need to go back to ground zero and start over.

I'm curious how you justify some of the tatics being used to push this agenda? How does a Facebook group of educators read such stories like the one you posted and not one adult says look what we are doing to our students to get what we want. Look at the damage we are causing we are no better than those we are fighting against. I agree you need to go back to ground zero, but the educators need to look in the mirror and the blame that lays at their feet and maybe even evaluate if some really belong in the classroom after what they were willing to do to get their way. Honestly many of my fellow educators on the outside feel the same way. I don't think some of these areas truly see that you are shooting yourself in the foot. I also ask again where are the classroom teachers while the test is being administered, why are resource teachers the proctor? There are a ton of other solutions that could be put in place rather than a resource teacher being the proctor. Mrs. First Grade could show a movie for the 70 minutes the test takes with another class and a Para allowing that other teacher to proctor(not ideal but better than kids losing resources ). What about the gym or other special teacher, why can't they. I mean cutting resources is a BS move and the only reason I see that would be done is to push an agenda.

 

[msjprincess]

Last year I told my kids they had to take the tests even though many students in our district weren't taking them. I said too bad, sometimes life isn't fair and have to do things you don't want to do. Just do your best it'snot a big deal.

Then the test scores came out this Fall. My honor roll 6th grader scored a 2 on the ELA test. She was taken out of her Technology class and put into an AIS ELA class. She has a 93 average in ELA. Her teacher and principal agreed that she didn't need to be in the AIS class but it's state mandated that kids that score under a certain number need Academic Intervention Services. It's absolutely ridiculous. I understand using the test scores as a part of the equation. It shouldn't however, be the only thing they look at. It's a complete waste of resources.

I have another child that struggles in school and is in AIS classes. He's not getting as much help as he used to in those classes because there are now so many kids in the class that the teacher is spread thin. It used to be a small group of kids, now it's almost the size of a regular class.

 

[erin1715]

But the ones teaching aren't refusing the tests, the kids are. You have your union to speak up for you, using the kids (and parents) can come across as you just using them as pawns in your agenda.
If you truly want to make a statement as a teacher, why don't you guys refuse to give the test?[/QUOTE]

Maybe because these teachers who are required to get a bachelors and masters degree to teach in NYS actually NEED to keep their job (especially since the overall economy in NY is tanking). Teachers are not to blame, and once again they are being blamed. How about the administrators stand up against the powers that be and refuse giving the tests? They don't want to because they were threatened with loss of funding. Nobody wants to lose their job.

 

[Kbee]

Erin, I'm not blaming the teachers here, but what I ask is valid, the teachers aren't laying themselves on the line here for their cause, they are using the students and parents to do it for them.
I support their reasons to be against these tests, but what I said is not false, its the absolute truth. That poster said "refusing the test is the only way to get Albany to take notice and listen to the people teaching". What about the parents, you know the ones who are actually refusing the test? I guess it doesn't matter if Albany listens to them?

Albany would listen if all those teachers were laying their own jobs on the line to stand up for what they believe in, but instead they can just have the kids and parents do it for them. So yes I can see where it comes across as them using the kids for their own agenda. You'd have to be blind not too.

 

[nugov2]

I understand that fear but if all teachers banded together will they all lose their jobs? Taking a stand for what you believe in is scary, but needs to be done sometimes and I think teachers and parents across the country would support you. I cannot support what is currently going on. I cannot justify students being used as pawns. I truly ask as an educator how do you justify those three scenarios I posted as acceptable actions by educators. Cuomo is wrong, but as the saying goes two wrongs don't make a right. There is a better way.

 

[Kbee]

I understand that fear but if all teachers banded together will they all lose their jobs? Taking a stand for what you believe in is scary, but needs to be done sometimes and I think teachers and parents across the country would support you. I cannot support what is currently going on. I cannot justify students being used as pawns. I truly ask as an educator how do you justify those three scenarios I posted as acceptable actions by educators. Cuomo is wrong, but as the saying goes two wrongs don't make a right. There is a better way.

I agree, and as a parent of a middle schooler in NY I think its fair and valid to wonder why teachers aren't willing to stand up for themselves instead of using us and our kids to do it for them.

 

[erin1715]

The reality of organizing every single teacher to band together is unrealistic, and not going to happen. Certainly if they could do that, Albany MIGHT listen. I think part of the misconception here is that people are assuming teachers in NYS have more power than they really do. I can't speak to the specific scenario outlined previously about IEP's not being followed due to the testing, but I certainly believe that happened. The administration in NYS schools (at least in our area) are NOT supportive of their teachers and if the teachers were to take any stand against the admin, their career in NYS would be in jeopardy.

 

[undertheradar]

If the evil corporations are so bad, exactly what is being taught in NYS schools? Wanting to "opt out" of these corporate designed tests, what materials are being used in your schools? There is a grass roots agenda being led behind the scenes by a group that has written different tests and has become vocal about organizing against CC. Oddly enough, the highest paid employee is a public spokesman who is tied to numerous grass roots campaigns throughout the country. Added all together, he is making a pretty large sum of money while others do his bidding. His primary residence is in Florida, yet NY is where he has gotten the most leverage.

 

[Kbee]

The reality of organizing every single teacher to band together is unrealistic, and not going to happen. Certainly if they could do that, Albany MIGHT listen. I think part of the misconception here is that people are assuming teachers in NYS have more power than they really do. I can't speak to the specific scenario outlined previously about IEP's not being followed due to the testing, but I certainly believe that happened. The administration in NYS schools (at least in our area) are NOT supportive of their teachers and if the teachers were to take any stand against the admin, their career in NYS would be in jeopardy.

Its their career, they should be the ones fighting for it. Maybe they could stand together with the parents, but they aren't, they are leaving the saving of their careers, under the guise of doing it for the kids, to us. At some point they need to have skin in the game.

 

[nugov2]

The reality of organizing every single teacher to band together is unrealistic, and not going to happen. Certainly if they could do that, Albany MIGHT listen. I think part of the misconception here is that people are assuming teachers in NYS have more power than they really do. I can't speak to the specific scenario outlined previously about IEP's not being followed due to the testing, but I certainly believe that happened. The administration in NYS schools (at least in our area) are NOT supportive of their teachers and if the teachers were to take any stand against the admin, their career in NYS would be in jeopardy.

That's a cop out. It only takes a spark to start a fire.

Who do you blame for not following the IEPs? On the Facebook group didn't anyone ask why or did they just tsk tsk and blame Cuomo. What about the other stories being reported that do fall on teachers decisions. I am curious if you feel that the teachers have any responsibility in using students as pawns? I feel for the teachers but sadly I don't think you are doing anything with opt out other than hurting yourselves and your students. When the majority of the country is not opting out and if test scores come back even somewhat decent you guys are for lack of a better word screwed because your true reason for opting out got lost and now you'll have no leg to stand on. I guess you'll have to keep fingers crossed that country bombs big time.

 

[mom2rtk]

The reality of organizing every single teacher to band together is unrealistic, and not going to happen. Certainly if they could do that, Albany MIGHT listen. I think part of the misconception here is that people are assuming teachers in NYS have more power than they really do. I can't speak to the specific scenario outlined previously about IEP's not being followed due to the testing, but I certainly believe that happened. The administration in NYS schools (at least in our area) are NOT supportive of their teachers and if the teachers were to take any stand against the admin, their career in NYS would be in jeopardy.

The effectiveness or ineffectiveness of their other alternative has nothing to do with whether it's right to use the kids as pawns.

 

[erin1715]

I don't agree if teachers are directly telling the kids in their classrooms that they should refuse the tests because the teacher's job might be in jeopardy. I'm not in the classroom so I don't know if that's really going on, but I hope not. I am for educating the parents about how the students are being tested to death instead of allowing for creative learning, and letting the parents make the decision whether or not they want their child to take the test. I think teachers should be as vocal as they can be without losing their job. If you (general you) don't agree with that, then we'll have to agree to disagree. It's extremely competitive to get hired as a teacher and I do think most teachers love their students and do their best in the classroom to help them learn, but I don't think they should be expected to put their career on the line for a decision that wasn't theirs to begin with.