Tell me about International Baccalaureate

[Zandy595]

My 8th grade DS received a letter from the high school he'll be attending about a presentation for their IB program. I wasn't in the program in HS and I really don't know anything about it. Can someone explain what it's about and if it's something we should consider? Thanks.

 

[Zandy595]

anyone?

 

[DVCLiz]

The IB program is a rigorous academic program within the high school - it is for the best and most motivated students. If you have a very high-achieving student you should look at it. If you have a regular kid, it's out of reach.

 

[BCDisneyFanatic]

The IB programme was originally designed to provide consistency in the education of diplomats' children. It provides a universally-accepted standard for international schools to follow, and a common curriculum so that students moving from one country to another are be able to pick up where they left off.

It is a very rigorous programme. The higher level classes are slightly harder than the equivalent AP courses. There is a lot of emphasis on developing thinking skills and well-rounded learners. However, the workload is REALLY atrocious, and there seems to be a lot of (unnecessary?) hoops to jump through to graduate.

Unless your child is in an international school, or you are hoping to send them outside of the US to study, I don't really see much of an advantage to it, to be honest.

 

[allison443]

It is well respected and looked on favorably in the college admissions process. I would definitely go to the presentation and find out about it and see if you and he think this is something he would like to do.
Good luck.

 

[cabanafrau]

The IB program is a rigorous academic program within the high school - it is for the best and most motivated students. If you have a very high-achieving student you should look at it. If you have a regular kid, it's out of reach.

Sorry, just gotta say it, there are no regular kids on the DIS!

 

[BabyTigger99]

http://www.truthaboutib.com/

 

[lacrosse_lady72]

The IB progam typically takes place within a students junior and senior years of high school. Now I cannot remember the specifics of the courses but they are very comparable to AP classes. When IB took over at my school, they replaced all the AP courses.

There are 2 parts of the IB program.

1. Full IB Diploma student. The full IB Diploma student will be required to take a certain amount of courses and be further tested in said courses. All courses are divided up into 6 categories (now I cannot remember exactly what the categories were called but I'll let you know what was available at my school):

a. Language 1 or the native language of the studen. In my case that was English.
b. Language 2 or a second language. At my school in my situation, this was the equivelant to French 4.
c. Arts. Basically, we had the choice between visual arts or theatrical arts.
d. Experimental Sciences. Biology, Chemistry and Physics all fall into this category.
e. Social Sciences. History, Economics and Government all fall into this category.
f. Mathematics. Calculus and Math Studies were offered at my school but I think there's the possibility to take some form of computer science.

In each of these categories, there are higher level classes and standard level classes, a full diploma student is required to take 3 of each level. Any HL course taken will be taken during both the junior and senior years of high school. SL courses will be staggered between both years for example:

Here are the courses I chose and the year I took them in:
Junior year-
English HL1
Biology HL1
Visual Arts HL1
French SL

Senior Year-
English HL2
Biology HL2
Visual Arts HL2
Math Studies SL
20th Century History SL

In May my junior year I was tested in French since that course was over. In May my senior yeat I was tested in English, Biology, Visual Arts, Math Studies and History.

In addition to the courses, full diploma students are required to take a Theory of Knowlegde course that for us took place over the third trimester of my junior year and the first trimester of my senior year. It's sort of hard to explain the course but it's an extremely great class! Books that I was required to read included A Beautiful Mind, The Prince, Walden and Metamorphisis. It's not a religious course.

A couple of other things required for the full diploma are CAS hours similar to community service and the Extended Essay, a 4,000 word essay on almost anything.

2. The other part of IB!
Students can take any IB courses and not be a full diploma student. If it's decided that the full diploma is too much, rest assured that you won't be shut out of IB completely. Of the 500 students in my class, most of them took some sort of IB course but only 11 total ended up being full diploma students in the end. As PP said, it's HARD work.


Your kid is getting information as an 8th grader which is great. Prerequisite are to be taken during the freshman and sophomore years. For me (and I say this a lot because every school is different), in order to take IB Visual Arts or IB Theater, you had to have taken Art 1 & 2 or Theater 1 & 2, respectively. To take any IB Experimental courses, you had to have taken both accelerated Biology and accelerated Chemistry. To take any IB math class, you had to have taken math through at least pre-calculus. This wasn't all but it gives you an idea on why he's being approached now and not during his sophomore year.

I was an IB Diploma student and I wouldn't take it back in a heartbeat. I feel as if I was given so much more to take from my high school experience than I would have been given in the standard classes at my school.

Would I recommend it? Yes and no. I think it's something that isn't required to get into a great college but it'll prepare a student more than anything else would. In english, I read books that college grads were just getting to. But again, it's a lot of work. Intellectual capabilities aside, it can be draining to anyone. Other students will have the chance to take elective classes that won't be accessible to your DS since his schedule will not allow them.

He'll have a better grasp on what his opportunities are during this meeting. And I find it hard to believe there won't be anything out there for parents soon to come but if not, I'd advise looking over what they give him and speak with the IB coordinator at the high school with or without your DS.

I hope that helps, feel free to ask any questions and I'll do my best to answer them.

 

[hrh_disney_queen]

The IB programme was originally designed to provide consistency in the education of diplomats' children. It provides a universally-accepted standard for international schools to follow, and a common curriculum so that students moving from one country to another are be able to pick up where they left off.

It is a very rigorous programme. The higher level classes are slightly harder than the equivalent AP courses. There is a lot of emphasis on developing thinking skills and well-rounded learners. However, the workload is REALLY atrocious, and there seems to be a lot of (unnecessary?) hoops to jump through to graduate.

Unless your child is in an international school, or you are hoping to send them outside of the US to study, I don't really see much of an advantage to it, to be honest.

My kids have been in IB PYP and now MSP for 5 years now, and I never really knew this. We love the IB programmes at Elementary and MS level, but the curriculum is not anywhere near as rigorous as what others have described for the HS IB programmes. There is the same philosophy about developing thinking skills and well rounded learners as you stated. I believe there is a good bit of community service required before graduation, too. I have a couple of years to think about it, but I am not sure we will be applying to the IB HS here. I'm not sure my DSs can be motivated to that extent, plus for some reason the IB programme is offered at the HS with the worst discipline/trouble reputation. I will be attending the presentation here when offered.

 

[hrh_disney_queen]

http://www.truthaboutib.com/

First and last paragraphs on the home page of this site:



"Welcome to Truth About IB. Before you travel any further into our site, we want to be totally upfront with our readers. Time and time again, supporters of IB have accused us of having a "hidden agenda" and an "axe to grind". We prefer to think of it as a hatchet used to cut wasteful spending and yes, ours is sharpened, but our agenda is far from hidden. So to be perfectly clear and to put these accusations to rest, we're going to spell it out."




"Disclaimer: The purpose of this website is to question the design, agenda, implementation and results of IB programs. It is in no way meant to offend, insult, attack or demean the students who have participated in IB classes or earned an IB Diploma."



Not exactly an open-minded organization, is it?

 

[golfgal]

Around here the schools that offer IB programs are really bad schools and they need something for the good students. Typically you only see the IB programs in the inner city schools around here. The better suburban schools offer the AP courses.

 

[hrh_disney_queen]

Around here the schools that offer IB programs are really bad schools and they need something for the good students. Typically you only see the IB programs in the inner city schools around here. The better suburban schools offer the AP courses.

Our elementary and MS with IB are in very nice areas, not inner city. But the HS is not in the best area, and like I said they have a lot of problems. Your explanation fits the HS with the IB programme.

 

[Rose&Mike]

My son, who's a freshman in college was an IB student. Feel free to pm me with any questions.

Hear are a couple of observations.

IB classes were completed junior and senior year. He was a full IB candidate junior year. Senior year he dropped the language for a band class. He took IB tests as well as some AP tests and started college with 30+ hours and feels very prepared for the Honors classes he is taking. He loved the critical thinking/ discussion based emphasis of the IB classes.

There is a lot of writing in IB classes. You write for everything. The lab write ups he completed were more detailed than the ones I did in college for microbiology/organic chem.

Not all IB classes are the same. Some classes are standard level (I think that's what they are called) and some colleges may not offer credit for these classes. If you plan ahead and do some independant study you can take the AP test for these classes. My DS did this with calculus and physics, and did fine.

Overall, I'd say it was a great program for him. He entered college not afraid to participate in class and prepared for seminar style classes, which a lot of honors classes are. But, and this is a big but, it was a lot of work in high school. He spent a huge amount of time on the weekends and during the week doing homework. He really enjoyed it though, and so only complained when big deadlines were looming.

Good luck with your decision.

 

[Zandy595]

Thank you all, for your posts.


The presentation last night was very informative and LONG. I'm so glad we went though. This program is for all four years of HS. The 9th and 10th grade classes are called PIB (pre-IB). DS has to decide if he wants to do it by the middle of January. This HS he'll be going to is the only one of three in the district/county that offers IB. It is definitely the worst of the three schools. It's in a nice rural area, but it's not an "A" school and we hear quite a bit about behavioral issues with students.

I know DS could do the work, but I don't know if he's motivated enough. They had IB students speak about the program and their work load. Some of them said they have to stay up til the wee hours of the morning doing homework. That is so not DS. I think he would be better served taking AP classes, but I'm going to let him decide for himself. DH on the other hand says he wants him to give it a try and if he can't handle it, he can quit. I don't know how easy it would be to quit though. I don't want DS to suffer for a year or semester until he can get out of it.

 

[HugsForEeyore]

Our elementary and MS with IB are in very nice areas, not inner city. But the HS is not in the best area, and like I said they have a lot of problems. Your explanation fits the HS with the IB programme.

I live in a fairly affulent suburban school district, and IB is HUGE HUGE HUGE here at the high school. Every other webpage on their site is about IB this and IB that. The kids and parents get the message that IB is the ultimate, and if you aren't in IB, well you are destined to flip burgers for life and will never get into a good college. Honors classes aren't good enough anymore, AP classes aren't good enough anymore - now all the kids have to be in all honors/AP/IB classes (yes, the high school actually has such a thing!!).

Even more so, for the freshman and sophmore grades, they have "Pre-IB" honors classes - for kids to "prepare" for the IB track. It's big bragging rights here to be in IB - parents really are proud of their kids for it.

As well, many of the affulent high school kids already plan to do a semester or year abroad in college (totally expected of their status/lifestyle - and they know mom and dad will pay) so doing IB is part of that whole scene of success.

Sorry to be a such a negative, it's a big pet peeve of mine. Here the IB program has become just another level of success that makes the average kids feel they fallen even further behind.

 

[gm]

My Ds was in the IB program and got received his Ib diploma in addition to his high school diploma. He really enjoyed it. It will give you an edge when applying for competive colleges.

 

[Geoff_M]

Our impression with the HS IB program, as well as that of our friends that had their kids go through it is that about all the IB program gets you is a gold sticker on your diploma and a medal around your neck at your HS commencement. Our daughter started out in the IB program with a lot of her friends, but dropped out of it (though she still took several IB courses her Senior year) after her Junior year. The two main reasons she dropped out (at our urging, not her request) was:
1) The work was making her miserable and she was often staying up until 2 or 3 AM to complete the assignments. Granted, her time management skills aren't the best in the world, but she got to the point where she was a walking zombie a large portion of her Junior year.
2) The curriculum was too restrictive. For example, she wanted to take both Chemistry and Physics her Senior year, but the program would only allow for one or the other.

After we convinced her to give up shooting for an IB diploma, she was able to take the classes she wanted that she felt would help prepare her for majoring in Chemical Engineering in college and she was a lot less stressed out her Senior year and she actually had fun in school again.

She was admitted to a well respected technical university, and when she asked if she would be allowed to earn AP credit based on the IB exam results (she did take a couple exams before graduation), she was told that they didn't accept IB exams at the university, only AP exams. The person we talked to in the Registrar's office even had to ask the director of the office about our question because she didn't even know what the IB program was.

Before we opted to try and convince her to drop the pursuit of an IB diploma, my wife (a middle-school and high-school teacher), talked to co-workers as well as friends of ours who had kids that recently earned IB diplomas to see what benefit they brought in terms of university recognition such as admissions, scholarships, and such... the answer was universal: Zero. This included kids that are now attending selective schools like the U. of Michigan and well known east-coast colleges as well as more local state universities. That's when we decided that our daughter continuing to beat her brains out for no tangible benefit was silly. It's also a mistake to equate an IB diploma with academic achievement. At our kids' high school, they hand out the IB diploma completion medals out at a Seniors honors ceremony about a week before the commencement exercise. I was a little surprised when they handed out a few of the medals to students that hadn't been recognized in the main portion of the honors ceremony. This meant that their overall weighted GPA was less than 3.0.

If you went through the program and thought it was beneficial to you, that's great. But I'm here to say that I think that the benefits of the IB program are greatly over-hyped.

 

[QueenRocks]

Our impression with the HS IB program, as well as that of our friends that had their kids go through it is that about all the IB program gets you is a gold sticker on your diploma and a medal around your neck at your HS commencement.

snip


Before we opted to try and convince her to drop the pursuit of an IB diploma, my wife (a middle-school and high-school teacher), talked to co-workers as well as friends of ours who had kids that recently earned IB diplomas to see what benefit they brought in terms of university recognition such as admissions, scholarships, and such... the answer was universal: Zero. This included kids that are now attending selective schools like the U. of Michigan and well known east-coast colleges as well as more local state universities. That's when we decided that our daughter continuing to beat her brains out for no tangible benefit was silly. It's also a mistake to equate an IB diploma with academic achievement. At our kids' high school, they hand out the IB diploma completion medals out at a Seniors honors ceremony about a week before the commencement exercise. I was a little surprised when they handed out a few of the medals to students that hadn't been recognized in the main portion of the honors ceremony. This meant that their overall weighted GPA was less than 3.0.

If you went through the program and thought it was beneficial to you, that's great. But I'm here to say that I think that the benefits of the IB program are greatly over-hyped.

I agree. My children go to a high school with the IB program but are not in the program. I did not encourage it. There should be some enjoyment to going to high school. My children do take AP classes and are not straight A students. They do well in school.

As for a competive edge when applying to college, I don't buy it. A good student is a good student whether you're taking IB or AP classes. Colleges are going to look at your GPA, SAT scores, and class rank. Case in point, my son got into his first choice school. His friend with a comparable GPA and was an Eagle Scout like my son was wait-listed. He was an IB student. The IB students here don't even get their IB diplomas until December of their freshman year in college; so the colleges do not know when they send out acceptance letters whether these students even passed the requirements for the diploma. At the graduation ceremony, they just note that the graduate is a candidate for the IB diploma.

Many parents I've spoken to believe being in the IB program is their child's ticket to UVA or W&M, and that is just not the case. Many IB students do not get in, and they are very disappointed.

 

[Geoff_M]

The IB students here don't even get their IB diplomas until December of their freshman year in college; so the colleges do not know when they send out acceptance letters whether these students even passed the requirements for the diploma. At the graduation ceremony, they just note that the graduate is a candidate for the IB diploma.

Now that you mention that, you're right.... I was mistaken to call the medals give to our HS students "completion medals".. they were indeed called "candidate" medals.

 

[gm]

I agree if may not give you an edge if you are not top 10 in your high school in addition to IB. But I do feel that those 2 things got ds where he is today. He also received full scholarships to other schools specifically because of IB and the letter stated it, I know one was University of Tulsa and a couple of others but he wanted to go to an ivy league so he passed on that. His friend took the full scholarship that was offered to him also at university of Tulsa and he was in IB too.