*** Television Fall 2010 ***

[gometros]

I may be stealing your thunder, bicker, but I noticed that it looks like The Closer and Eureka have new episodes next week. Do you know how long their season goes this time around?

 

[Planogirl]

I just found out that Ace of Cakes was cancelled. I kind of liked the show so I'm bummed out.

I also heard that Syfy has some new shows premiering soon including a cooking show? The new version of Being Human might be worth checking out but I don't know about Marcel's Quantum Kitchen. I understand that the host is one of the most disliked contestants ever on Top Chef so I file this under what was Syfy thinking?

 

[Dis4]

Fringe, Human Target and Lie To Me are also a bit surprising, but then again not-so-much, in light of the fact that Fox knows it is losing 3 hours of prime time next fall, to make room for X-Factor. This is going to look a bit like NBC looking forward to the end of the 2008-2009 season, when it had to factor-in losing five hours of prime time to the Jay Leno Show.

The silver lining, here, is that it seems that Bones will make it through to next fall.

That would be truly sad if Fringe was canceled. One of the better shows on TV if you ask me.

Actually I'm getting close to be done with network TV except for some of the reality shows that I love. There really is no point anymore. All the serialized dramas and unique shows that I like get canceled so I'm just going to stick with cable from now on.

 

[bicker]

I may be stealing your thunder, bicker, but I noticed that it looks like The Closer and Eureka have new episodes next week. Do you know how long their season goes this time around?

The Closer has five episodes left in its sixth season. Eureka and Warehouse 13 are presenting holiday episodes this coming week. For Warehouse 13, that's its season 2 finale, but Eureka still has ten more episodes in its fourth season. However, unless plans change, the remaining episodes won't be broadcast until Spring. So these are both just single episodes.

 

[CourtasanSatine]

Same thing with Leverage by the looks right? A Christmas show and then the season finale.

One question too: since Discovery Health is closing due to the O Network taking over will any of its shows be moved (i.e Dr.G)?

 

[bicker]

Leverage got a 16 episode order, and we've seen 13 episodes. The three remaining episodes will be presented one one week, and then two (back-to-back) the week after.

Sorry, I don't know about Discovery Health's programming. I generally only really follow dramas very closely, and the networks that present them. That puts me into contact with a lot of info about comedies, and some reality shows, too, but not many.

 

[bicker]

Interesting development reported yesterday - that the entire writing staff of The Walking Dead was fired. Apparently, they didn't contribute much, and the producers ended up writing the vast majority of the first season.

 

[Dis4]

Interesting development reported yesterday - that the entire writing staff of The Walking Dead was fired. Apparently, they didn't contribute much, and the producers ended up writing the vast majority of the first season.

That is very interesting indeed.

 

[Pakey]

Bicker, since you are the guru of television, can you tell me if Sons of Anarchy on FX is going to be coming back next year? Last night was the season finale and the ending would be a perfect way to end the series but I'm hoping that is not the case.

 

[Dis4]

Lie to Me hit a season high with ratings on Monday night against lesser competition. This would support the notion of making it a summer show or moving it to a different day/time slot.

 

[bicker]

Bicker, since you are the guru of television, can you tell me if Sons of Anarchy on FX is going to be coming back next year? Last night was the season finale and the ending would be a perfect way to end the series but I'm hoping that is not the case.

Sons of Anarchy is safe through 2011-2012.

Lie to Me hit a season high with ratings on Monday night against lesser competition. This would support the notion of making it a summer show or moving it to a different day/time slot.

Perhaps, but "season high" means that the show is being compared against itself instead of against its competition, which is what really matters. Also, Lie To Me has a lot of expensive talent associated with it, so it seems a lot less likely that they'll continue to be willing to carry a series with such poor ratings. (TV by the Numbers shows Lie To Me with a Renew/Cancel Index of 0.68. Typically, a show is only safe at 1.0 and greater.)

They did carry Lie To Me into this year, presenting last season mostly over the summer, but there is a lot of speculation that that was just because they knew that X-Factor was coming in 2011 and as a result they didn't want to incur the cost of developing two or three new shows that they wouldn't have room for a year later.

 

[bicker]

And the other shoe dropped today: Lie To Me isn't getting a "Back 9" order, so it looks like the January 31 episode will probably be its series finale.

 

[Dis4]

And the other shoe dropped today: Lie To Me isn't getting a "Back 9" order, so it looks like the January 31 episode will probably be its series finale.

Yup I'm actually about done with non reality based shows from Fox now. The only shows on that network I care about now are Fringe and Human Target. Both likely to be canceled so that will be that.

 

[bicker]

Fox'll still have House, Glee and Bones, and that's more than I can say about NBC.

This stuff is expensive, and unfortunately there are too few of us viewers who prefer dramas as compared to those who prefer to view reality shows, considering how much less expensive they are. We lose.

 

[DarkForce]

Fox'll still have House, Glee and Bones, and that's more than I can say about NBC.

This stuff is expensive, and unfortunately there are too few of us viewers who prefer dramas as compared to those who prefer to view reality shows, considering how much less expensive they are. We lose.

That's fine, it's the Networks loss. AMC and HBO OWN the networks!!! There are plenty of good shows on cable to watch to keep me busy, especially with several new shows coming out next year. The only thing I will watch on the networks is mindless reality based drivel that I know won't be canceled!!

 

[bicker]

AMC is not actually doing that well, and neither is HBO really, at least not in comparison to the broadcast networks. In reality, it's the networks' gain, not their loss.

 

[DarkForce]

AMC is not actually doing that well, and neither is HBO really, at least not in comparison to the broadcast networks. In reality, it's the networks' gain, not their loss.

I wasn't referring to profits, I was referring to quality of programming. AMC and HBO own the networks. This cannot be argued.

 

[bicker]

Well, it can be argued. You were talking about "the networks' loss" - but that is indeed talking about profits. That's what they're supposed to be all about - beyond the provision of news and information, making profit for shareholders is the only substantive promise that the networks make to the public.

And afaic, AMC is "just okay". After an incredible first season of Breaking Bad, and a mind-blowingly fantastic first season of Mad Men, both shows degraded significantly, and Rubicon was a mess from the start. While The Walking Dead is quite good, given AMC's track record, I'm not holding out much hope for Season 2. The Killing sounds like it could be interesting, but of course only time will tell.

And that's all we can say about AMC. They simply haven't established themselves as a reliable place for significant amounts of quality programming. I don't doubt that they can put out one good show at a time, but that's not much more than what a single production team does - the producers of House, for example.

HBO is much stronger. The Sopranos, Six Feet Under, The Wire, Deadwood, Rome, Big Love, True Blood, etc. That's a really significant track record of not just a good first season, but an excellent series run for a number of series. However, even there, their challenge is just lower than that of the broadcast networks. Even HBO rarely provides more than one great show at a time.

And another point: I feel that we can't talk about HBO without talking about Showtime: Street Time, Out of Order, Dead Like Me, The L Word, Sleeper Cell, Brotherhood, Dexter, and The Tudors were all good afaic, and most of those shows had high quality, long-term runs (and the ones that didn't, I feel, should have). Indeed, the single best television series of all time, afaic, is in that list: Sleeper Cell.

However, in considering Fox, I cannot overlook the fact that, unlike AMC or HBO, they're providing more than one great drama, long-term, right now (House and Bones), even discounting the dramas that are likely to be canceled (Human Target, Fringe, Lie To Me). AMC and HBO have a ways to go before they can equal the total quantity of drama-excellence that Fox puts out each year, afaic.

 

[DisneyOhMy]

Well, it can be argued. You were talking about "the networks' loss" - but that is indeed talking about profits. That's what they're supposed to be all about - beyond the provision of news and information, making profit for shareholders is the only substantive promise that the networks make to the public.

I don't think you should be telling the PP what he was talking about. He just told you what he was talking about, quality of programming.

And afaic, AMC is "just okay". After an incredible first season of Breaking Bad, and a mind-blowingly fantastic first season of Mad Men, both shows degraded significantly, and Rubicon was a mess from the start. While The Walking Dead is quite good, given AMC's track record, I'm not holding out much hope for Season 2. The Killing sounds like it could be interesting, but of course only time will tell.

This post is so factually incorrect I'm not sure where to start.

First of all, Mad Men has not degraded significantly. It's won the Emmy for Best Drama the past 3 years. If that's degrading, I'd like to see what improving means to you.

Secondly, Breaking Bad has developed a cult following. Many people, myself included, consider BB to be the most interesting show on television. The leader actor, Bryan Cranston, has won Best Actor in a lead drama the past 3 years and there is no reason he won't continue to do so. Aaron Paul won Best Supporting Actor in a lead drama in 2010. So once again, if that show is degrading I'd like to see what improving means to you.

Walking Dead just made cable television history with the season finale of The Walking Dead which was amazing.[/QUOTE]

And that's all we can say about AMC. They simply haven't established themselves as a reliable place for significant amounts of quality programming. I don't doubt that they can put out one good show at a time, but that's not much more than what a single production team does - the producers of House, for example.

Once again completely off base. If there is any place on tv that has made themselves a reliable place for quality programming it's AMC! Just look at my previous paragraph and see all the awards.

HBO is much stronger. The Sopranos, Six Feet Under, The Wire, Deadwood, Rome, Big Love, True Blood, etc. That's a really significant track record of not just a good first season, but an excellent series run for a number of series. However, even there, their challenge is just lower than that of the broadcast networks. Even HBO rarely provides more than one great show at a time.

HBO WAS much stronger in the past than they are now. Their recent track record has not been as great. Deadwood only lasted 3 seasons, Rome only lasted 2 seasons, Boardwalk Empire probably won't go more than 2, certainly 3. Big Love and True Blood are top quality. HBO is certainly a great place for quality programming.[/QUOTE]

And another point: I feel that we can't talk about HBO without talking about Showtime: Street Time, Out of Order, Dead Like Me, The L Word, Sleeper Cell, Brotherhood, Dexter, and The Tudors were all good afaic, and most of those shows had high quality, long-term runs (and the ones that didn't, I feel, should have). Indeed, the single best television series of all time, afaic, is in that list: Sleeper Cell.

However, in considering Fox, I cannot overlook the fact that, unlike AMC or HBO, they're providing more than one great drama, long-term, right now (House and Bones), even discounting the dramas that are likely to be canceled (Human Target, Fringe, Lie To Me). AMC and HBO have a ways to go before they can equal the total quantity of drama-excellence that Fox puts out each year, afaic.

House has run its course. Time to come up with something new Fox. Oh yea they tried that with Lone Star... epic fail! Do you work for Fox?

 

[bicker]

I don't think you should be telling the PP what he was talking about.

I wasn't. Strange that you'd think I was.

He just told you what he was talking about, quality of programming.

Yup, and I address both aspects, i.e., the implication that quality of programming is what determines what the "network's loss" is, and the implication that AMC (especially) has primacy in that regard.

This post is so factually incorrect ...

No, no really. You and I just disagree.

First of all, Mad Men has not degraded significantly. It's won the Emmy for Best Drama the past 3 years. If that's degrading, I'd like to see what improving means to you.

Objectively, you might have a point. Though, if you want to count awards:

2008 - 6 Emmy Awards
2009 - 3 Emmy Awards
2010 - 4 Emmy Awards

With +/- 1 awards, it is hard to tell if there is a trend in any specific direction - it could just be random chance - but with a drop of 2 awards, you can start saying something. Well, as much as you can say regarding the Emmy's. Remember that the Emmy's are a popularity contest. The industry honoring itself.

However, my comment wasn't intended as an objective evaluation. I'm sorry I didn't make that clear. I'm saying that I believe that the quality of the show had degraded significantly.

Secondly, Breaking Bad has developed a cult following.

Indeed, which has nothing to do with the quality of the show, in my estimation and that of my family. We watched the first season but had dumped the show before getting through the second season.

Walking Dead just made cable television history with the season finale of The Walking Dead which was amazing.

Yup, but there is no way of knowing how even you will receive the second season, which was the context of the comment you were replying to.

Once again completely off base.

Rather, simply another case of you and I disagreeing.

If there is any place on tv that has made themselves a reliable place for quality programming it's AMC! Just look at my previous paragraph and see all the awards.

We'll have to agree to disagree. Read again what I wrote, and try to explain to me how a typical American, who watches about 17 hours of series programming per week [Source: Nielsen Media Research] is going to be able to be served adequately by AMC.

HBO WAS much stronger in the past than they are now. Their recent track record has not been as great. Deadwood only lasted 3 seasons, Rome only lasted 2 seasons, Boardwalk Empire probably won't go more than 2, certainly 3. Big Love and True Blood are top quality. HBO is certainly a great place for quality programming.

As is Fox and CBS. (NBC, perhaps not-so-much, and ABC mezzo mezzo.)

And another point: I feel that we can't talk about HBO without talking about Showtime: Street Time, Out of Order, Dead Like Me, The L Word, Sleeper Cell, Brotherhood, Dexter, and The Tudors were all good afaic, and most of those shows had high quality, long-term runs (and the ones that didn't, I feel, should have). Indeed, the single best television series of all time, afaic, is in that list: Sleeper Cell.

Didn't I say that?

House has run its course.

Not quite yet. Give it another few years.

Do you work for Fox?

Do you work for AMC?

I don't work for any television-related companies. I'm completely independent.