teen drivers and joint physical custody

[The Mystery Machine]

Hey, thanks for the advice, but I don't know if everyone read my post wrong, or if everyone read what someone assumed and they went with it, but can I get some advice based on what I ACTUALLY wrote?

DS wants to buy my husband's car-his stepdad. My husband is not my ex, nor is he the dad. They are two different people.

Secondly, for DS to buy the car, he would obviously (to me, at least, maybe I didn't word that right) be paying for it himself. So the advice on that front about making him pay for it, well, ...

If DS drives dad's car and has an accident, dad's insurance will NOT pay out. That's what exclusion does.

(I see some people posted while I was writing this..)

There is no possible way for me to prevent dad from taking the cell phone. He knows how I feel, and chose to keep it away longer after I tried to discuss it.

Oh, no worries there. I thought your son wanted to buy his dad's car.

If he takes you to court for it, so be it. I mean he will be 16. It is hard for me to see what a judge would even say about that to your son.

If he is "legal" to drive how could the ex stop him? Esp. since EX can exclude your ds from his new car.

I see a lot of lip service that nothing may come from it from my perspective. But then again I know nothing about "joint custody" stuff.

 

[Mommee]

OK. The driver Ed DD took had one day for formal in room training (it was an all day thing) and then 8 hours of on the road training with an instructor. The on the road training was scheduled whenever DD and I felt she was ready for the next hour (it was in 1 hour blocks). She also had to do 40 hours of driving with me or DH. If you have a drivers ed school like this then you don't need to worry about the Ex taking him to drivers training. Just do it all at your house. THe school we went to wants the kids to have all the 8 hours on the road training withing 90 days.

About driving the Ex's car. Tell your son he cannot drive a car at his Dad's ever. Period. He is not covered on the insurance if he should wreck the car. Because of this have your address on the license and insurance.

Have your son start talking to his Dad now about getting his drivers permit, taking drivers ed, and driving. This gives him 6 months to talk to him so he doesn't drag you back to court. Your son needs to have these conversations in an calm adult manner. He doesn't need to cop an attitude if his dad says no in the beginning. He needs to just ask him to think about it. Don't let him nag the dad about this either.

When DD got her drivers permit she didn't need both parents to sign, just one.


Good luck.

Oh, have you met DS? I guess I do need to get him to take up this battle.

As for the driver's ed, around here it's like 3 weeks of 2 hours a night, and then 2 longer days. Maybe I can head to one of the larger cities and find something with a different schedule, though.

I never thought about keeping the car in DH's name and just giving DS "ownership" of it. It sure would make it more difficult for the dad to do something with it.

 

[sharbear]

Another thing about driving schools is that is if you miss a session you can do a makeup day another time. It will take him longer but maybe he can just go to driver's training when he is at your house.

I think keeping the car in your DH's name sounds like the thing to do. No way would I put it in your's S's name with such an a$$ for a father. Sounds like a nightmare to me. The other upside of that is that if the car is in an adults name I think the insurance should be cheaper.

 

[golfgal]

WOW, jump to conclusions much (and yes, THAT was snarky).
I actually retyped that 3 different times knowing that no matter how I typed it, you'd possibly take it wrong. I just didn't think telling you that you didn't have a clue what you were talking about was the way to go. At least I know I tried to be nice.

Actually I DO know what I am talking about given I have worked in the insurance industry for many yeas.

 

[sunnyday123]

Oh, have you met DS? I guess I do need to get him to take up this battle.

As for the driver's ed, around here it's like 3 weeks of 2 hours a night, and then 2 longer days. Maybe I can head to one of the larger cities and find something with a different schedule, though.

I never thought about keeping the car in DH's name and just giving DS "ownership" of it. It sure would make it more difficult for the dad to do something with it.

I think keeping the car in your Dh's name would be the way to go. Is there any way you can get your custody agreement reworked? It sounds like your ex can put up a fight if you decide to let him get his lic/car without him agreeing to it. Not that any court wouldn't tell him he's being crazy, but it would be a waste of your time and the courts....which they don't take lightly. ( Ask my ex!) I know my agreement states DD's dad has to agree to give her any medications prescribed by a Dr ( because I was making up any illness she had ) and has to get my approval on anyone who watches her for longer than 4 hours. ( He had a tendancy to leave her with not so responsible people) If your ex would just realize it would make his sons life easier and more relaxed and that hurting him to get to you is dumb, I'm sure life would be so much easier. And he might earn a little respect along the way.
I'd sign him up for the classes, and pay for them myself. Sometimes you have to bite the bullet when you deal with people like your ex.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Oh, have you met DS? I guess I do need to get him to take up this battle.

As for the driver's ed, around here it's like 3 weeks of 2 hours a night, and then 2 longer days. Maybe I can head to one of the larger cities and find something with a different schedule, though.

I never thought about keeping the car in DH's name and just giving DS "ownership" of it. It sure would make it more difficult for the dad to do something with it.

That is what we do here.

When my dd's graduate from college then we will sign over the car to them.

My oldest is 19 and so far so good.

We did get umbrella coverage just in case.

 

[Mommee]

OR.....(as I'm getting more coffee I think I had an epiphany!!)

A big problem for me with this is that my son's dad does these kinds of things because he can paint me as the bad guy. I have to pay everything or be the one not willing to do it. I have to jump through his hoops or I'm the one that failed. So in this case, if I fail to find a way to get DS a license and buy himself a car, I'm the one that's not cooperating. And unfortunately DS falls into that way of thinking way too easily. Added to that, when I do find a way to do something, Dad then uses it to show how uncooperative I am...the proverbial rock and a hard place.

BUT (and several suggested this, but I've been fighting on behalf of DS for so long that it's hard to think this way) if I fully hand this issue over to DS, and he fails to negotiate with his dad, then it's his issue and his dad's. Right? Or am I missing a downside to this? (Other than DS possibly not getting a license until he's 18)

And, keeping the car in DH's name if DS does get his dad to cooperate. I love that idea regardless.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

A big problem for me with this is that my son's dad does these kinds of things because he can paint me as the bad guy. I have to pay everything or be the one not willing to do it. I have to jump through his hoops or I'm the one that failed. So in this case, if I fail to find a way to get DS a license and buy himself a car, I'm the one that's not cooperating. And unfortunately DS falls into that way of thinking way too easily. Added to that, when I do find a way to do something, Dad then uses it to show how uncooperative I am...the proverbial rock and a hard place.

BUT (and several suggested this, but I've been fighting on behalf of DS for so long that it's hard to think this way) if I fully hand this issue over to DS, and he fails to negotiate with his dad, then it's his issue and his dad's. Right? Or am I missing a downside to this? (Other than DS possibly not getting a license until he's 18)

HAHAHA...you are mom. It is always our fault.

Have your DS negotiate this with you and your DH. I would leave the EX out of this.

Now if my teen gave me crap about getting his license, then teen would not be getting his license.

Would your son throw you under the bus if he did not get his way?

At 16, a teen knows better. Sounds like he might be playing you a bit too much and using dad as his excuse.

That is just speculation. I have 2 teens and they seem to know it all.

 

[Mommee]

Courts say I can't leave Ex out

DS would not throw me under the bus for not getting his way; he would throw me under the bus in a heartbeat if he thought that doing so would somehow protect me from his dad. Misguided, but his heart would be in the right place. I'm an adult and have trouble negotiating the waters with his dad; I can only imagine what it's like to be him and deal with his dad.

FWIW, this kid is AWESOME . Straight-A's while taking advanced placement classes, a great baseball player, helpful, kind (well, there is that teen attitude LOL), sensitive, etc.. His downside is wanting his dad to love him, and feeling he needs to give in to dad so that dad won't come back on me.

 

[ilovejack02]

Courts say I can't leave Ex out

DS would not throw me under the bus for not getting his way; he would throw me under the bus in a heartbeat if he thought that doing so would somehow protect me from his dad. Misguided, but his heart would be in the right place. I'm an adult and have trouble negotiating the waters with his dad; I can only imagine what it's like to be him and deal with his dad.

FWIW, this kid is AWESOME . Straight-A's while taking advanced placement classes, a great baseball player, helpful, kind (well, there is that teen attitude LOL), sensitive, etc.. His downside is wanting his dad to love him, and feeling he needs to give in to dad so that dad won't come back on me.

What is the problem with allowing DS to get his license and keeping car at your house only? How often is he at his Dad's ? If it is week to week , yuck, but if it is only every other weekend and he knows his Dad is a pain, can't he just give up driving for another cpl of years at Dad's .

OR just take the man to court and get them to say who what when where why , if you two can't get on same page. In Louisiana once kids hit around 14 they start listening to the child more on who they want to stay with etc and with your EX's history of taking you to court over stupid crap is it possible that this will all come out in your favor? Courts here will throw the book at someone for going to court over stupid things.... IE... haircuts. My husband's ex has been yelled at in open court a few times for stupid court cases.

 

[Tinkermommy]

Here's my take.

A driver's license is a privilege. If DS wants it he can earn the money for the drivers ed class, talk to his dad about the license, etc.

I totally agree with putting this back on him. If he's old enough to drive he's old enough to arrange for it to happen. Especially since it sounds like if you get involved it will only make your EX unreasonable.

And now is a great time for him to start earning money (he can mow lawns, get a paper route, etc).

Good luck!

 

[ilovejack02]

Oh and the giving in to Dad is like you said not only to protect you of course, but also a need to keep Dad still loving him.

I have watched my DSS21 for years try to please his Bio MOM even when she was being crazy about her requests and not thinking in his best interest. Doesn't want to lose her love. It is sad to watch. but since he has been about 16 we have let him deal with his Mom for the most part, but on the big stuff.

I might would have to intervene a bit on a car issue.

 

[Mommee]

thank you for all the replies. I'll be MIA for the rest of the day since DS will be up and around. I have a lot to think about.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Courts say I can't leave Ex out

DS would not throw me under the bus for not getting his way; he would throw me under the bus in a heartbeat if he thought that doing so would somehow protect me from his dad. Misguided, but his heart would be in the right place. I'm an adult and have trouble negotiating the waters with his dad; I can only imagine what it's like to be him and deal with his dad.

FWIW, this kid is AWESOME . Straight-A's while taking advanced placement classes, a great baseball player, helpful, kind (well, there is that teen attitude LOL), sensitive, etc.. His downside is wanting his dad to love him, and feeling he needs to give in to dad so that dad won't come back on me.

Maybe you can have a heart to heart talk with your ds and tell him that it is not his job to protect you from his dad.

This might be a good jumping off point to begin the transition into becoming an "adult" when dealing with his dad.

Now I don't mean disrespectful to his dad, but more "adult" with working things out with him and allowing him to let go that thing he has with protecting you.

 

[DizBelle]

Note to self: think very, very carefully about who you decide to have children with.

 

[Darcy03231]

OP, sounds like a similar situation with DH's ex. His kids are over 18 so its no longer an issue, but here's what we did.

Cell phones - we bought and paid for them. They were not allowed to go to mom's house.

Driver's ed -we paid for driver's ed, bought the cars and paid for the insurance and repairs. Kids paid for their own gas. Cars were in our name and on our insurance. Cars were not allowed over at mom's house.

Since everything was in our name and we paid for everything there was nothing she could do about it (she took us to court to try have an order made for the cars and phones to go to her house too). Because everything was in our names and not the kids and the kids didn't pay for any part of everything it was our property and we didn't have to send it over there.

While we hated to play it this way the ex made everything so difficult it was the only way for us.

Good luck!

 

[shortbun]

I would talk to my attorney regarding the ex being able to take away the car. Perhaps he doesn't need to know that the boy is the 'owner' of the car, rather that it's your car and he's driving it. Honestly, if the cell phone is on your contract, I don't see how the ex is able to take those privileges away either. He should give you the phone and just not use it at or with his Dad if you are paying for it then it's your phone. When does your son get to decide if and when he's going to stay with his dad? I wouldn't bring it up but I would not discourage him from drifting away either. Sounds like an abusive relationship and since your son is over 12, does he not get a say?
Check the laws of your state regarding the driving issue and insurance. I'd say there would be just one policy to cover him. Why not have your son get a job now and help to pay for driver's ed?

 

[barkley]

op, you might want to check your state's dmv site. i just googled it b/c i wanted to see if it's rules were similar to some i had seen-and they are.

your ex appears to have the power as a parent to get your ds's dl suspended if he chooses. that's something to think about if you decide to allow your son to get his license without the ex's buy in. it's become a popular trend among some states to permit parental control over minor's driver's licensing up to and including a parent being able to contact dmv and have the license suspended.

one of the issues you may need to find out from your insurance company (if you will have to fight this with your ex) is weather your state allows a parent for whom a child is considered a resident of their home (does'nt matter what address is listed on their driver's license-it's their legal residence) to be exempted from insurance.

in my state, even if i don't allow my dd to drive, once she gets her driver's license or learner's permit i am REQUIRED to include her as a licensed driver on our policy. i'm not sure how it works with dual residency, but i suspect if i had a child in a situation similar to yours, my ex would need proof of insurance from my company, and would then have to do some kind of rider clause to protect himself.

 

[LMC]

If DS has to be on your insurance won't the car have to be in YOUR name? I don't think a car can be registered to a minor. And from what you described, NWIH I would purchase a car, insure it and leave it in that ex's name. The insurance excuse is a great reason that the car has to be titled over to YOU. Then when DS is 18 you title it over to him. Make sure you meet ex at the bank or wherever and get the signed title and both sets of keys, before you fork over any $$$$.

 

[TriMom]

Since you and the ex have had to discuss HAIRCUTS before a judge, my advice would be to sit down and write out all of your desires for DS and driving. Then I would make an appointment with a court mediator. Then all 4 of you - You, Ex, DS and mediator - can come up with an acceptable plan for driving privileges that would be added onto your custody agreement.

I can't think of any other way that won't come back to bite someone in the butt.

Just my 2 cents.