Teen daughter - vent

[PaulaSB12]

Look up parentification its what you are doing. this will lead to alienation next

 

[tzolkin]

That’s too bad.

What part of that post was “too bad”? It sounds wonderful to me for there to be lots for kids and teens to do within walking distance.

This really depends on where you live. I always thought the HS would go in and get out first, but here (NC), at least, it's the opposite. In fact, when they were younger, my DD (middle school) and DS (elementary) would leave at the exact same time. She went to her bus stop, he walked the 2 blocks to school. He would get out at 2:30, and be home by 2:40. She'd arrive at 4pm. Now, she's in college and he's in HS--he gets out at 3:40 (it was 3:30, pre-pandemic). On days that he needs to be somewhere at 4pm (dance on Tuesdays), I pick him up.

Yes, it varies greatly. When we lived in a very rural area there was only one set of busses so they high schoolers were taken home first. After school activities for HS were scheduled to end at the same time as elementary so even if you kid played sports or was in a club they would ride the bus home with the younger kids. This was specifically because it was a poor area and most families relied on teens to provide after-school care.

 

[MamaMermaid]

On one hand, teenagers, amiright?

On the other hand, she is your DAUGHTER, not your nanny. If you want her to be Wendy to the Darling children, then pay her. The kid is clearly yearning for some freedom to decide her own life. I would absolutely resent my parents for forced labor (teens don't see all the stuff you provide as payment).

There has to be a compromise here.

I agree with this. She isn't the help... and if she is, pay her. Sorry OP - this is a really tough situation for all. Sending you love and good vibes!

 

[sk!mom]

I never heard of kids not coming home after school. If mine had no activities and didn’t come home I would have been quite concerned. And would have put a stop to it.

That’s too bad. At school, activities, weekends. Days off.

Are you being serious? What’s too bad?

So your experience (did you say how long ago it was?) was different.

In my experience, busy teens, rarely home was typical. Activities, studying in a group at one house or a coffee shop, going to Target as a group, or whatever. we’re in Texas so hanging at someone’s pool was pretty typical from April to October.

 

[Allison]

No ones children mine grew up with did that. And I have never heard of it. I think it’s customary to come right home after school as it is after work. In fact my siblings and I came right home as did all of our friends.

It wouldn't be customary to how I grew up or how my kids grew up. It is so odd that you haven't heard of it.

 

[White Cat]

It wouldn't be customary to how I grew up or how my kids grew up. It is so odd that you haven't heard of it.

If is. And I’ve been around quite a bit. But I do live different than most, thank Goodness.

 

[White Cat]

Are you being serious? What’s too bad?

So your experience (did you say how long ago it was?) was different.

In my experience, busy teens, rarely home was typical. Activities, studying in a group at one house or a coffee shop, going to Target as a group, or whatever. we’re in Texas so hanging at someone’s pool was pretty typical from April to October.

Right. Ours were busy with school sports, dance and so forth. O up later studying. Not sitting in coffee shops after school. We had a pool as did every other family. Kids rarely used them. Became to common.

 

[White Cat]

There is always time with good time management skills. Even with 2 varsity sports seasons, high school play, and 12 hours of dance dd20 managed 9 AP classes and graduated 8th in her class, probably the most social out of my very social kids. Very strong friend group (just had a bunch over for a fire 2 nights ago). Fortunately all of my kids hung out with others who were involved in sports or some time consuming activities and who cared about school. This helped them succeed in college, even with a work hard/play hard mentality. Even my 25 year old is still close with her high school friends. Dd18 is with her 9 best friend sleeping elsewhere, home from college.

4 of our 5 children are extremely successful, all all are happy. . Our way worked well enough for us.

 

[White Cat]

We did it constantly. We just played outside before highschool and during highschool we just walked around the city center. Most of my friends had one activity that was usually one hour of training or a music lesson. Plenty of time to hang out.
My brother was hardly home between 12 and 17 years old.

Our parents trusted our judgement.

That doesn’t surprise me.

 

[White Cat]

Autonomy counts for a lot at a certain point. It varies depending on the parent and the relationship with their teen and other factors but as is the OP's daughter is a senior, 17 and will be going off to college quite soon. I think most of us are just a bit taken back by how much restriction is put in place at this point especially the job part. Clearly the OP trusts their teen to take care of the 7 year old and the 4 year old so it does seem at odds with the other restrictions put in place. And if one feels like the person watching their kids isn't up to snuff you well should make other arrangements and is usually the going advice anyhow.
[/QUOTE
How many children do you have? Nieces and nephews don’t count. Unless you are raising them.

 

[Allison]

If is. And I’ve been around quite a bit. But I do live different than most, thank Goodness.

As we all know different doesn't mean better so it is good that it worked for you.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

How many children do you have? Nieces and nephews don’t count. Unless you are raising them.

Expand on your point please

From what I understand of the above several posts your way worked for your kids other ways worked well for several other posters kids. You said you would have been quite concerned if your kids didn't come home and you would have put a stop to it. Other posters seem to have grown up and are presently raising their kids to have more autonomy as well as acceptance towards their kids having other things they engage it be it hanging out with their friends without grave concern, certainly this was the way that was with my friends and I as well. Most of us had jobs anyhow. I think the point was the option to even do these whether one actually always engaged in stuff the option was available, as is there's not really much options going on for the OP's teen which is more what got brought up with the activities and hanging out with friends.

If the teen wanted to go to a coffee shop they could, maybe your kids don't or didn't and it sounds like you would have prohibited that but for most the option is part and parcel with autonomy and trusting of judgement. My point was if you trust your teen to take care of young children but are quite restricting elsewhere something else is going on. To characterize someone as lazy, entitled, whiny, etc but entrust them in the care of your own young children seems at odds. If you really thought that of someone you wouldn't think they should take care of your kids, hence the comment about making other arrangements of course these other options will cost a lot more than the present situation is even allowing for...

 

[mjkacmom]

4 of our 5 children are extremely successful, all all are happy. . Our way worked well enough for us.

Out if my 5 children, 1 is a CPA, 1 works in finance (should be making 6 figures a year from now),1 is graduating a year early from college and is deciding on a doctorate program (NYU? BU? GWU? NEU?). The others just started college. If your kids didn’t care about friends and socializing, that’s fine, but unusual.

 

[disykat]

Look up parentification its what you are doing. this will lead to alienation next

Seriously? Expecting your teen to babysit siblings for ONE HOUR a week (3 20 minute time periods) plus an hour every few weeks is not parentification. It may or may not be an unreasonable expectation depending on the teen's schedule, but it's definitely NOT parentification.

 

[sk!mom]

If is. And I’ve been around quite a bit. But I do live different than most, thank Goodness.

My gosh, “thank goodness.” Really? Why are you being so judgmental about something so normal? It’s not like any of us said our kids were hanging out smoking weed after school.

Around here, coffee shops are like teenage girl happy hour in the afternoon.

4 of our 5 children are extremely successful, all all are happy. . Our way worked well enough for us.

Well, I feel for poor kid 5. Plus no one is questioning “your way.” You’re being extremely judgmental about any other way.

From what I understand of the above several posts your way worked for your kids

well, 4 out of 5 anyway.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Seriously? Expecting your teen to babysit siblings for ONE HOUR a week (3 20 minute time periods) plus an hour every few weeks is not parentification. It may or may not be an unreasonable expectation depending on the teen's schedule, but it's definitely NOT parentification.

You know I don't think that was the point of the comment. I don't think it was about time. I think it was more it was the elder sibling's responsibility on a routine basis.

I must admit I hadn't heard of the term but I did look it up. Here's from Psychology Today a brief definition:

"Parentification is when a child is forced to take on the role of an adult. Many children get pushed into the role of caretaker for their younger siblings or become the referee in their parent’s arguments. When caregivers aren’t able to fully show up for themselves, children get put into developmentally inappropriate situations."

I honestly would say this, as described by the OP, is a developmentally inappropriate situation brought on perhaps by a global pandemic and could be looked at a different light but when the OP quite bluntly states: "We have not let DD17 get a job yet because the two of us have worked all through Covid and she needs to help out by watching her siblings DS7 and DD4." I mean that's kinda a big deal to say you have to not move on in maturation for yourself (to what extent we don't know) because instead you need to do this. Quite literally the teen is taking on the role of caregiver because her parents are unable to all the time regardless of how admirable the reason the parents are unable to be there.

When I looked into it I could see how this situation may fall into it. Like I mentioned a few times the lines between a parent and a kid are getting blurred.

When you look at how the OP sees it through her descriptions of her daughter she probably doesn't see much possibilities for negatives other than to lament how she's the awful mom. Look at how the OP says this about a job and babysitter: "I told her if she has an issue with it we can hire a baby sitter. DS can go to after school care. She can get a job and pay her insurance and buy her own car. (No way she would even make enough )" Then there was the whole get this job not that job discussion. As is the OP is putting the teen in a corner with only 1 prescribed way out--take care of the other siblings because we can't we're at work.

The OP has admitted she could get a babysitter, could put their other children in daycare but is not and is putting that burden onto the 17 year old by threatening (and I don't mean that in the extreme but a threat is still a threat) by saying basically fine you want to make money go for it but you won't succeed in making enough so there, just be happy we're doing this stuff for you and watch the kids and pick the one up from the school bus. That's an inappropriate situation to put the teen in and the teen is well aware of how her parents feel about her role now in the household. It's not on her to shoulder this responsibility nor for her to have this ultimatum. If she doesn't acquiesce to this arrangement the OP has decided then that makes her ungrateful for all the things her parents are providing and if she doesn't acquiesce then her parents will basically throw her to the wolves (that's an exaggeration on purpose) and she'll know how her parent's feel about the situation. That's a fairly awful position to be backed into wouldn't you think?

And for all of the posters who did say they had to take care of their siblings on the regular, like a poster said just because it was done doesn't make it right back then. Even I know some of the things I was privy to as a kid was way above my pay grade and should have never been told to me or for me to take on.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/healing-together/202001/14-signs-you-were-parentified-child

 

[Lilsia]

The OP has admitted she could get a babysitter, could put their other children in daycare but is not and is putting that burden onto the 17 year old by threatening (and I don't mean that in the extreme but a threat is still a threat) by saying basically fine you want to make money go for it but you won't succeed in making enough so there, just be happy we're doing this stuff for you and watch the kids and pick the one up from the school bus. That's an inappropriate situation to put the teen in and the teen is well aware of how her parents feel about her role now in the household. It's not on her to shoulder this responsibility nor for her to have this ultimatum. If she doesn't acquiesce to this arrangement the OP has decided then that makes her ungrateful for all the things her parents are providing and if she doesn't acquiesce then her parents will basically throw her to the wolves (that's an exaggeration on purpose) and she'll know how her parent's feel about the situation. That's a fairly awful position to be backed into wouldn't you think?

This, right here, was what bothered me the most. The making your child feel like what you are providing them is somehow conditional to them watching their siblings. Instead of it being because they are the parents and they love her and want the best for her. It's no wonder why she has does not like having siblings. And that is a horrible thing to do to your children. The younger ones don't understand why their older sister hates them. It is hard enough to be connected with siblings with such a huge age gap, and then add in that wedge, and it usually does not lead to a good sibling relationship even when they are adults.

If is. And I’ve been around quite a bit. But I do live different than most, thank Goodness.

You say that your kids did not hang out with friends after school, and that no one really does that. That is fine if that is the norm where you live. But what others are saying is that is not where they live. Where we live, it is a huge community and many kids are very social with each other. There are lots of group activities, clubs, social gatherings, study groups, etc. Our district is huge on helping those who are struggling so you will often see kids helping a classmate with a subject that they are struggling in. I think that makes them amazing people. So it is not unusual for HS aged kids to hang out for a half an hour after school. We all know that they are fine and not getting into trouble, that is just how our community is. And I think that it is wonderful that so many interact with each other, that is an amazing life lesson and skill to learn in itself. And most kids go on to college and become successful. That half an hour a few days a week in no way holds them back and I would argue that it helps.

 

[disneychrista]

Here is what I’d do. She get a job then she pays her own car insurance and payments for her own car. She also stops getting any allowance and pays for all her own wants (not basic needs.) This savings then goes to help pay for daycare.

 

[Lilsia]

Here is what I’d do. She get a job then she pays her own car insurance and payments for her own car. She also stops getting any allowance and pays for all her own wants (not basic needs.) This savings then goes to help pay for daycare.

She will never make enough to pay for car payments and insurance and any extras. And the main focus is for her to keep up her grades, she is still in HS after all, and not worry about being able to keep a car, just so she can get to her job to pay for her car. Some of you go too far and that is what pushes your kids out. Some of you make it out to be "hardly doing anything" when it comes to watching her siblings but if she doesn't watch her siblings, then she is now all of a sudden supposed to pay for a car and insurance to "make up for it"? You can't have it both ways, either she is hardly doing anything or she is contributing so much to the family that it is the equivalent of a car payment and insurance.

 

[NotUrsula]

That’s why I said unless there was an activity after school. And mine mostly did have an activity. There wasn’t time to hang out. And they had too much homework and other things to do than to sit in a coffee shop after school. Similar to adults that need to get home.

That's what mine is doing in the coffee shop -- homework, with her study group. It's next to the school, so it's where they go after campus closes. Private school, so no buses, and most parents don't get off until 5 or so, so it's typical that the kids who are waiting for rides from parents go and do their homework at the coffee shop. Mine could come home earlier on some days when I'm working from home, but she is better about getting her work done timely in study group, so I have her stay most days.

I live right on the edge of an urban area, and kids here get around under their own steam most of the time unless the weather is bad. DD's campus is next-door to a fairly large university, so the high school kids tend to mingle at some of the same places that the university students do. I like that she is learning to navigate around and deal with business transactions without parental assistance.