Teen daughter - vent

[emer95]

My heart goes out to you, @pinkxray. I have two daughters and we barely survived their teenage years. They are good kids but they put us through the wringer. Even now that they’re in their early 20s there are still some tough issues.
I don’t think you’re being unreasonable at all. You are a family, and family members help each other even when it’s not fun or convenient. Especially since you’re willing to let her work on the weekends.
I have a much younger brother, and I watched him all the time when my parents worked. It was just assumed that I would.
Best of luck to you, OP.

 

[mom2rtk]

You seem to be making all the decisions for her

I think that's really the biggest issue here. I'm not sure what the answer is, but it needs to come about as a cooperative discussion with her. What's happening now could build resentment with the siblings over time.

That said, I don't think you're obligated to buy her a car or pay for her college. If she would like for you to be able to do those things, she might need to make some decisions on how she's willing to help make those things happen.

 

[PinkPixel]

My DD 17 is really starting to frustrate me. Dh and I are essential workers. We have not let DD17 get a job yet because the two of us have worked all through Covid and she needs to help out by watching her siblings DS7 and DD4.

She has to pick up DS 3 days a week from the bus stop. About once a month DH and I overlap weekends we work. He works day shift and I work third shift specifically so she only has to watch them like an hour between DH and I not being home.

In return she gets everything provided for her. Most of her friends work at a daycare after school and she wants to too. If she did that we would have to pay for DS7 to go to after school care.

Since we have told her no to working I am currently work extra shifts a few times a month in order to buy her a car. (Looking at a used Honda Civic) We currently pay her car insurance that went up a good amount when she started driving. (She got her license in Sept and needs a lot of practice before driving on her own)

She will start college (commuting to local state college) in Sept. Paid for by us. She will be driving a car paid for by us, insurance paid for. Once Sept comes we have told her she is free to get a job.

She is just constantly bringing up we won’t let her get a job. She hates having siblings. We don’t pay her. (Again pay for anything she needs-and she gets about $40 a week from us)

Yesterday she had to watch the kids one day during Xmas break. DH and I split the rest with vacation time. She laid around all day while DS7 pretty much took care of himself and DD4. He got their cereal for lunch, snacks, drinks etc. (have cameras in living room and dining room)

When DH and I were upset about it, DD gets all upset again about watching them for 1 day on her break. It’s her break! Let her sleep! She’s tired! None of her friends have to wake up early.

I wanted to just lose it. I told her if she has an issue with it we can hire a baby sitter. DS can go to after school care. She can get a job and pay her insurance and buy her own car. (No way she would even make enough )

This is after working all day(I’m an X-ray tech in a hospital with over now 100 Covid pts) We are extremely short staffed. Staff out due to flu, Covid,etc. I picked up an extra shift this weekend and will spend my days working in the ER that is overflowing or going up to the icu to do portables on Covid patients. I picked up this shift just to put towards saving for her car. (DH is home so she isn’t watching them)


Anyway, just a vent. Dh and I work so hard and to have her just not care is so frustrating. I really don’t know what else to say to get through to her.

She should absolutely be allowed to get a decent job at 17. She didn’t ask for two younger siblings. It’s not her responsibility to provide childcare for them as a trade off for things she would have if she did not have siblings. She sounds like a great kid to be helping this much. I understand you’re trying your best but she is almost a legal adult. How much the cost of an outside helper impacts the family budget should be very straightforward and discussed as facts as positives and negatives for both sides.

 

[pinkxray]

Wow. I am grateful for the responses. I really am. Apparently, I am just a horrible mother.

I am really shocked at some of the responses here. I certainly don’t resent DD bc she cost me money. I love her and really want her happy. As I said previously my grades tanked when I was forced to work at 16. I don’t want that for her.
She was given the chance to get a weekend job.

We are going to have to agree to disagree about her picking DS from the bus stop. It’s 20 minutes of her day 3 times a week. I think it’s a total waste of money to pay for after school care when she is home laying on the couch. If she choose to do sports, needed to stay after school or was able to find a job she could get to without DH or me having to drive her DS would go to after school.

I never expect her to be a nanny. I don’t make all the decisions for her.
I guess if she’s going to resent me about the bus pickup I can spend the money for after school for DS. She can lay on the couch for that extra hour.

I will talk to her when she wakes up. I will stress again that if she wants a job now it will have to be weekends. If her grades stay up she can look to work around our work schedule until she gets her own car.
Over the summer she will be free to get whatever job she wants since she will no longer watch the kids and will have a car.
I will have to look at my budget and she will have to pay towards the car and the insurance of a third car but we will look over that.

 

[sam_gordon]

How does she plan to get to/from a job (any job) if she doesn't have a car yet? That's a question to ask her.

I think you should be supportive of her getting a job, but let her know (she should know already) what the transportation limitations are. You could even set extra limitations tied to grades... if you maintain a B average, you get free reign on the cars when we're not using them. If it's a C, you can use the cars to go back & forth to work when we're not using them. If it's a D, no car privelages. Those are all just samples, since I don't know what you consider "bad" grades.

ETA: No one here is saying you're a horrible mother. People here ARE able to look at it from an "outsiders" perspective without being vested.

 

[mjkacmom]

I always paid my oldest to watch her siblings, I was paid to watch my sister, and it wasn’t a regular gig. She’s really going to resent them. All of my kids had part time jobs starting at 14, they loved working for the social aspect as well as making $ (most saved $5000 by college). I have a friend who’s 17 year old has to watch her 16 year old autistic non verbal brother (gets paid), because there are no other options (he will be eligible for a home at 18). She is very resentful. Take the money you are saving for her car and pay for childcare, let her work and buy her own car.

 

[amylevan]

For those of you that say she’s going to resent her siblings, do you not require your teens to do anything as part of the household? Cook, clean, trash, babysit, something? If she can’t get another job due to transportation issues, that should be the discussion point, not watching her siblings.

But if she is home, why should she not get the sibling from the bus 3 days/week? We all have to do things we may find annoying, it’s called life, what am I missing here?

 

[VandVsmama]

A couple of other transportation options to consider with regards to the daycare job:

• buy her a bike. Riding 2 miles on your bike isn't a big deal. Helmet use required. Cheaper than car.
• buy her an electric scooter. Helmet use required. Cheaper than car.

Picking up her siblings from the bus stop 3 days a week for 20 min is not a big deal and I think that it's normal and ok to expect the older sibling to do this. Of course, when she's at college, you'll have to find other options there.

Keeping her grades up should also be a requirement for having a part time job.

 

[mjkacmom]

For those of you that say she’s going to resent her siblings, do you not require your teens to do anything as part of the household? Cook, clean, trash, babysit, something? If she can’t get another job due to transportation issues, that should be the discussion point, not watching her siblings.

But if she is home, why should she not get the sibling from the bus 3 days/week? We all have to do things we may find annoying, it’s called life, what am I missing here?

If she planned on bring home, fine. However, it’s very hard to hire someone to pick up kids and sit an hour because they are obligated to make no plans after school 3 days a week. Teens here carpool to jobs.

 

[DisneyHardin]

I'm confused about all the people that are saying the daughter shouldn't be expected to just watch her siblings for free all the time. It sounds like from the OP that Mom is paying her $40/week for 60 minutes of babysitting. That seems like pretty darn good compensation for me.

 

[jo-jo]

I didn't read all the replies.

How many hours a week does she watch the kids? And I say watch loosely. You know a sister that watches is on phone, watching tv, doing nails, not reading books or doing crafts with brothers. You mention pulling extra shifts to pay for car or something. I'd say you try to be home , let her get that job. Let her pay for (at least part way ) for car, insurance. Let her figure out how to get to job and such. Not saying you can't pick her up now and again. but part of a job is figuring out the whole picture.

My mother worked second shift most of my childhood. It's just part of the family to watch other family members.

 

[MrsCobraBubbles]

if you can afford it, maybe work out the real life value of what she is doing for you, sit her down, and show her that you will pay her x amount, where "X" is what you would pay for the care if someone else was watching the siblings. That might make her happy, as it will be more than $40. If she still wants to work outside the home then I don't see much point to forcing her to watch her siblings. Eventually she will turn 18 and she will leave because she is unhappy, and as you pointed out, she is doing a crappy job of watching her siblings because she doesn't want to do it.

As for all the other stuff, a therapist pointed out to me a long time ago--when we were discussing my toxic relationship with my mother--that kids don't owe their parents anything. Our kids did not ask to be brought into the world. They did not ask to be born to us. I mean, hopefully our kids are happy to be here but they don't owe us for anything, WE chose to have THEM. Thinking about life with kids in that way has really helped me with my relationship to my mother, as well as to my own kids.

I get how difficult this pandemic has been with childcare, and I had to ask my own teenager to babysit his sister while they were doing virtual school and I was working outside the home (teaching other people's kids, ironically). He wasn't always happy about it and he pretty much never took care of his sister the way that I would have wanted him to, but I trust him not to hurt his sister and the rest is stuff I have to let go of, because it would drive us all insane if I tried to micromanage what was going on at home. Kids never got lost+house didn't burn down+they attended all their classes=all is good in our little world.

as far as the concern about grades going down: if she is allowed to work outside the home, I see that as natural consequences. She is either going to learn about how to juggle her responsibilities now while she is underage and under your roof, or she is going to learn about it when she goes off to college. I figure it's better to learn now while she has a cushion in case she fails.

 

[GreatLakes]

I think you need to sit down and have a calm, rational conversation with your daughter. With COVID, two essential working parents, and an older sibling able to help out at home I think you all need to have a discussion and come to a collective solution for the family. Not a solution that is best for her, for you, or for your husband but the one that is collectively better for the family. It also needs to be short term. Tackle the next month or two, then reassess the situation.

Through this pandemic we have all had to make sacrifices as a family and look at the greater good for the family even if it was not what any of us individually thought was best for us.

I am the oldest and I was expected to watch my siblings for free, or in return for all of the things my parents did for me, and I can tell you that was true of every one of my friends with younger siblings. We were in charge after school, when our parents went somewhere, or on school breaks when my parents still had to work. This isn't anything new. My mom is #2 of 4 and my dad is the oldest and both watched their little siblings.

 

[disney_runner]

Lots of answers here, looks like you got ideas from both sides.

I've nothing of value to add other than this - my 17 year olds best friend also has had to watch her much younger siblings (slightly older siblings than your story) for the last couple years while her parents worked as well. She has a job (nights and weekends), maintains decent grades, and didn't have to pay towards her car/insurance either. While she has a little more independence (because of the car), than your daughter, it's a similar situation. She loves her siblings, but talks poorly of her parents (so my daughter tells me, she's never said anything to me). My daughter says she cannot wait to graduate and get out of the house simply to finally be free. Again, loves her siblings, not so much her parents.

Do with that what you will. After all, like you said, they are teenagers and we all were teenagers at one point in time as well. Your daughter will grow up and participate in the real world, and hopefully one day realize her life wasn't all that bad. As stressful as it is right now in this moment, just hold on and be patient. Maybe after you sit down and talk and get things in the open it will get better - for both of you. Good luck.

 

[Karin1984]

Wow. I am grateful for the responses. I really am. Apparently, I am just a horrible mother.

I am really shocked at some of the responses here. I certainly don’t resent DD bc she cost me money. I love her and really want her happy. As I said previously my grades tanked when I was forced to work at 16. I don’t want that for her.
She was given the chance to get a weekend job.

We are going to have to agree to disagree about her picking DS from the bus stop. It’s 20 minutes of her day 3 times a week. I think it’s a total waste of money to pay for after school care when she is home laying on the couch. If she choose to do sports, needed to stay after school or was able to find a job she could get to without DH or me having to drive her DS would go to after school.

I never expect her to be a nanny. I don’t make all the decisions for her.
I guess if she’s going to resent me about the bus pickup I can spend the money for after school for DS. She can lay on the couch for that extra hour.

I will talk to her when she wakes up. I will stress again that if she wants a job now it will have to be weekends. If her grades stay up she can look to work around our work schedule until she gets her own car.
Over the summer she will be free to get whatever job she wants since she will no longer watch the kids and will have a car.
I will have to look at my budget and she will have to pay towards the car and the insurance of a third car but we will look over that.

I think with this sentence you have zoomed in on the clear difference. You were forced to work at sixteen, your daughter wants to work. That's something fundamentally different.
Maybe start the converation with the reasons why she wants to work, having to work because otherwise there was no money for food or rent, is very different than if she wants to work because of getting experience, seeing different people, learning how to handle money.
'I want her to have what I didn't have' isn't an argument, if what you want for her isn't what she wants or needs.

You're not a horrible mother. You have just written your original post as if you are Cinderella's evil stepmother. That doesn't mean you are, you just phrased it that way. ;-)
My guess is, it's not that she just lays on the couch for that hour babysitting. She cannot go anywhere else during that hour. It's you deciding how and where she spends that hour.

Have an open conversation with her, where you listen to her and look for solutions together. How can we make option A. possible (like getting a bike for the job) or is there an option B.
Asking her for solutions will definitely improve your relationship if she feels she is being listened to. Do this together

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Um you sound like you hired a live-in nanny. You have another child not an employee.

It's common for older siblings to do some things for their younger siblings. You're asking her to essentially do it all and then you cast her in a terrible light.

Goodness I hope she can get out and get out quick. So many people use the excuse that youth these days have no work ethic but tend to miss the youth that actually want to work but are prevented to by their parents. This is one where you just want her to take care totally for her other siblings at the expense of her independence, you're not allowing her to grow as an independent person but rather just be a caretaker.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

never expect her to be a nanny. I don’t make all the decisions for her.

To the comment above:

We have not let DD17 get a job yet because the two of us have worked all through Covid and she needs to help out by watching her siblings DS7 and DD4.

She has to pick up DS 3 days a week from the bus stop.

About once a month DH and I overlap weekends we work. He works day shift and I work third shift specifically so she only has to watch them like an hour between DH and I not being home.

In return she gets everything provided for her.

Most of her friends work at a daycare after school and she wants to too. If she did that we would have to pay for DS7 to go to after school care.

She will start college (commuting to local state college) in Sept. Paid for by us. She will be driving a car paid for by us, insurance paid for. Once Sept comes we have told her she is free to get a job.

She is just constantly bringing up we won’t let her get a job.

She hates having siblings. We don’t pay her. (Again pay for anything she needs-and she gets about $40 a week from us)

Literally just picking a few things from your OP. You really need to look over how you are treating your daughter. Do you see that she's your daughter? Because I don't think you do. You're her parent and you act like she should be gracious that you you know are ultimately responsible for her. She can't pay for anything on her own because you won't let her get a job. It's always so strange to read from people who throw things out like they pay for everything but in the next breath say they prevent their kid from getting a job. What do you expect the kid to do? Get money from a magical tree? Remember money doesn't grow on trees. $40 a week isn't going to get her a car or allow her to go to college. I don't think you need to buy her a car or pay for her college but you can't prevent her from making money to do those things then act like she's the ungrateful one.

**Sorry just finished my so some things may be said with more snark than normal.

 

[karen4546]

From what you've written, I'm on your daughter's side.

Mom of 4.

The things you are providing are typical parent provided things. Yes, teens are expensive. But as you know, so is daycare.

She, in her own teen way, is asking you to give her the opportunity to grow up. She is looking for ways to be independent. As a senior in high school, it's time you allow her to get a job outside the house.

You and your husband have had it 'easy' by having an in home person to care for your younger kids.

I agree with this. Teens are expensive. We have 1 son (who went to trade school and not a four year college) and 3 daughters who all went to college and got their varying degrees (criminal justice, education k-12, and marketing/business). We paid for it all. We bought them all vehicles and paid for their insurance until they got their own jobs. Paid for their cellphones even during college. We bought all their clothes, shoes, etc through out their high school days which included expensive basketball shoes, softball equipment, cheerleading uniforms, running shoes etc. In college, they each worked in the library and earned their own money.

Wait to you have to pay for weddings!! Disney wedding, lakeside wedding and beach wedding (beach was the least expensive).

They are all in their mid to late 20s and all have their own homes and careers.

OP, maybe pay her more to do the things you would have to pay someone else to do if she got a job. That may be a good compromise.

 

[tzolkin]

For those of you that say she’s going to resent her siblings, do you not require your teens to do anything as part of the household? Cook, clean, trash, babysit, something? If she can’t get another job due to transportation issues, that should be the discussion point, not watching her siblings.

But if she is home, why should she not get the sibling from the bus 3 days/week? We all have to do things we may find annoying, it’s called life, what am I missing here?

I think the bolded is exactly the issue.

Certainly, helping out with something that needs to be done around the house (which may even include watching siblings occasionally) should be an expected part of being in a family. I don't think asking a teen to get younger siblings from the bus stop if they're available and not doing anything else is a big deal at all.

The issue is that the teen believes that she is stuck at home, not allowed to work a job like her friends, and not allowed to earn any money because she has to watch her siblings (not because there are transportation or scheduling issues). That is what is going to cause the resentment.

It may be completely obvious to the parents that it's not practical with their scheduling conflicts and lack of an extra vehicle that the teen get a job, but it does not appear to be as obvious to her. I think rather than telling her that she can't get a job because she needs to watch her siblings, it would be better if the parents told her that she is allowed to get a job but would need to figure out the logistics of how she could make that work. She may figure out for herself that the current situation is best.

Is there a reason you are paying for everything? It sounds like she needs some skin in the game by being responsible for paying some of her college expenses.

I was wondering the same thing. I think OP could have the exact same childcare arrangement, but with a much happier daughter if they just restructured how they thought about the money. OP believes that daughter should be appreciative of the money they have been saving for her car and college, but the daughter is not seeing that. From her perspective she is watching the siblings "for nothing".

Let's say over the course of the year the parents have saved $6000 toward the car and college. Why not instead of paying for those items FOR their daughter, pay her $500 per month to put into her own bank account and then expect her to pay for them herself? It's still the exact same amount of money for the same babysitting, but in the latter the daughter will feel that she has earned her "own" money and has the ability to pay for things herself.

 

[Christine]

Wow. I am grateful for the responses. I really am. Apparently, I am just a horrible mother.

I am really shocked at some of the responses here. I certainly don’t resent DD bc she cost me money. I love her and really want her happy. As I said previously my grades tanked when I was forced to work at 16. I don’t want that for her.
She was given the chance to get a weekend job.

We are going to have to agree to disagree about her picking DS from the bus stop. It’s 20 minutes of her day 3 times a week. I think it’s a total waste of money to pay for after school care when she is home laying on the couch. If she choose to do sports, needed to stay after school or was able to find a job she could get to without DH or me having to drive her DS would go to after school.

I never expect her to be a nanny. I don’t make all the decisions for her.
I guess if she’s going to resent me about the bus pickup I can spend the money for after school for DS. She can lay on the couch for that extra hour.

I will talk to her when she wakes up. I will stress again that if she wants a job now it will have to be weekends. If her grades stay up she can look to work around our work schedule until she gets her own car.
Over the summer she will be free to get whatever job she wants since she will no longer watch the kids and will have a car.
I will have to look at my budget and she will have to pay towards the car and the insurance of a third car but we will look over that.

OP, I'm with you on this. It sounds like you don't ask much of her when she *is* there for the siblings and there's no ability for her to get her "choice" job anyway due to transportation issues. To me, it just sounds like typical ungrateful teenage behavior which generally is caused by a lifetime of them having everything they need. I say that with the best intentions because my kids could be very much the same way. They turned out eventually to be GREAT adults but in hindsight I would have done a few things different so that they would better "value" what they had been handed. Though, they see it now.

Since she really can't do the daycare job (she has no transporation for the hours), I just think old buttercup needs to deal with it until things calm down with your work hours. To me, it's just typical teen attitude and she wants to do and be what she wants. Sounds a bit lazy for what she's doing. I'd not be happy with her doing so little for the two younger siblings and having the other one essentially do all they babysitting work. That one sounds like he's gonna be a gem!