Teaching/Encouraging/aiding kids in a lie. Where do you draw the line?

[Wendy31]

You do realize that telling your kids that there is a Santa Clause is a lie that helps them get what they want, right? Lol

How does that help them get what they want? LOL! They can believe or not. They're still getting Christmas presents. Although we'll joke around & say, "When you stop believing in Santa, you start getting underwear for Christmas." "Santa" came to my parents' house until I moved out... Of course, I didn't believe Santa was real, it was just a fun part of Christmas.

And I admit, I do the "artful dodge" when it comes to Santa... "If you believe he's real, then he's real..." I don't think I've ever come out & said, "Yes, Santa Claus is a real person." Although I've truthfully said, "St. Nicholas was a real person." In actuality, we do the "Legend of St. Nick" w/ our kids, & Santa Claus is just a fun part of Christmas kind of like Mickey Mouse at Disney World.

You are right you didn't say it was okay, but then what was your point?

Lying = bad example to some on this thread. I would like to know how many of those people preaching that have broken the law in front of their children (and how they justify that). It doesn't matter to me if you don't have to lie to do it, wrong is wrong.

My point was that "lying to get something you want" is different from "breaking the law & risking the consequences."

Neither is okay. But I don't think knowingly breaking the law/risking the consequences is a good comparison to lying to get something/get out of something. To me, it's two different things. Neither of them right. But different.

I admit... I probably drive about 5 miles over the speed limit. But, if I'm stopped by a police officer, I'll pay my fine because I was wrong. I don't try to justify it, & I don't tell my kids "It's okay to speed because everybody does, & it's a silly rule anyway."

Lying to enroll in a social media account is more comparable (to me anyway!) to faking an ID to get into a club.

Before my kids were 13, if they wanted to share something w/ family members or friends on FB (& I really can't think of anything that they specifically asked, "Will you share this on Facebook?), we shared through my account.

All that said, in real life I know parents who have let their kids have social media accounts before they were 13, & I don't berate them or proverbially shake my finger at them or think I'm a better parent than they are.

But this is a discussion board, so we were discussing! LOL!

 

[undertheradar]

It doesn't justify anything but it sure makes the one who is preaching how wrong it is to lie on a social media acct look like a big hypocrit.

It doesn't justify anything but it sure makes the one who is preaching how wrong it is to lie on a social media acct look like a big hypocrit.

 

[mamacatnv]

I look at it like this:

Lying to gain something that you want, is less expensive etc. IMO is never a good idea and I don't do it nor do I "allow" my children to do it. I'm the person that looks over my dinner receipt and points out when I am NOT charged for something I ordered, same for any other type of purchase as well. My kids have seen me do this their entire lives. They know I am pretty darn honest.

Sure, rule bending occurs, my DD who has chronic migraines carries a migraine med in her backpack at school because the 15 minutes it takes to get to the nurse and get the same med does mean the difference between a migraine that lasts a few hours vs. a few days, this is a rule I am willing to break. School has a note on file from her Dr. but technically, its still against the rules. We did everything we could to abide, then had to decide that DD's wellbeing was more important.
Every single one of us can come up with examples of where its "okay" to break/bend a rule.

However, having to wait to have ones "own" social media account is not going to cause harm of any kind.
I also look at the lying to obtain a social media account or a cheaper ticket, cheaper meal etc as fraud. Its not just lying its also stealing IMO.
Steal what? you might say, what can my kid lying about their age steal from Facebook? It can steal accurate data, data that FB pays to gather. When a member has misrepresented themselves that skews the data.

 

[Dizlvr]

sorry you are confused my post is pretty clear.

 

[smitch425]

I look at it like this:

Lying to gain something that you want, is less expensive etc. IMO is never a good idea and I don't do it nor do I "allow" my children to do it. I'm the person that looks over my dinner receipt and points out when I am NOT charged for something I ordered, same for any other type of purchase as well. My kids have seen me do this their entire lives. They know I am pretty darn honest.

Sure, rule bending occurs, my DD who has chronic migraines carries a migraine med in her backpack at school because the 15 minutes it takes to get to the nurse and get the same med does mean the difference between a migraine that lasts a few hours vs. a few days, this is a rule I am willing to break. School has a note on file from her Dr. but technically, its still against the rules. We did everything we could to abide, then had to decide that DD's wellbeing was more important.
Every single one of us can come up with examples of where its "okay" to break/bend a rule.

However, having to wait to have ones "own" social media account is not going to cause harm of any kind.
I also look at the lying to obtain a social media account or a cheaper ticket, cheaper meal etc as fraud. Its not just lying its also stealing IMO.
Steal what? you might say, what can my kid lying about their age steal from Facebook? It can steal accurate data, data that FB pays to gather. When a member has misrepresented themselves that skews the data.

No data on a site like FB or Instagram is going to be accurate. Far from it! People have pages for their pets, who I'm quite certain cannot read or agree to the terms of the site. Lol! Just as you wouldn't allow the early Instagram account, I would never send my child to school with medication against school policy. Those policies are for the safety of all students. God forbid a student steal or be given a medication by a friend that ends up harming them in some way.

 

[sam_gordon]

Steal what? you might say, what can my kid lying about their age steal from Facebook? It can steal accurate data, data that FB pays to gather. When a member has misrepresented themselves that skews the data.

ROFL. Who is FB paying for the data?

If you don't want to let your child on social media until they're 13 (or whatever age), that's fine. No one is trying to force you. However, when you (general) imply others are "wrong" to do so, that's where people get defensive.

I'll let my kids have sips of my alcoholic drink. That's against the rules and law, but I'm willing to break those because I think the benefits (seeing alcohol not as "forbidden fruit") outweigh the risks. It's the same with social media, not that there are benefits, but I don't see the harm in letting them sign up early (kid dependent).

Let's be honest, 13 is a "made up number". There are kids 11 and 12 who are mature enough to handle social media. There are adults who AREN'T mature enough. So social media came up with 'age 13'. If my child is mature enough to handle it (and that's MY decision), I'll let them.

 

[SEA333]

"Okay, honey, I know you want to be on Facebook but you're only 11. Well, that's okay. We'll just tell them you were born in 2002 instead of 2004. See, just a quick little lie and you can get anything you want! There's always an easy way to get around the rules if you want something."

That's exactly the conversation I had with DD when I set *our* account up!!!

If I asked DD11 if she thought I think it is OK that she was lies to get what she wants because she has an Instagram account, she would be puzzled as to how the two relate. I don't even think that she knows that you are supposed to be 13, to be honest, since I set the acct up for her. So that argument is out the window for us. And I am totally OK with skirting the policy of some company who set an arbitrary date/time - regardless of what some PP's have said, some company's policy is NOT a LAW....

BTW...how many of you are posting on the DIS today at work? And, remember, Stay At Home Mom's....you are still "on the clock" too, because we all know that SAHM's have the same amount of work (and then some!) as everyone else! And since it is a huge no-no to be on the phone or tablet during our kids' waking hours and not keeping our eyes on our kids and engaging them to the hilt (and keeping them off Instagram, for crying out loud!), I would say there is an inherent "Company Policy" that applies to ALL working/staying at home parents. No exceptions! So, in my eyes, unless you are o a vacation day today (and no SAHM EVER gets a vacation day, right??!!) or are retired, chances are good that you are breaking company policy. Oooohhhh!!!!!!

So, who is going against company policy and posting today??!! We might as well have a conversation with our kids "Well, it's OK, honey. I'm just bored and need some drama today. So, just a quick little lie about what I am ACTUALLY doing is the easiest way to get around the "rules" and do whatever I want. Now, go watch your PG movie because you are not 13 yet, and for goodness sake, make sure you close your eyes at the scary parts!"

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

That's exactly the conversation I had with DD when I set *our* account up!!!

If I asked DD11 if she thought I think it is OK that she was lies to get what she wants because she has an Instagram account, she would be puzzled as to how the two relate. I don't even think that she knows that you are supposed to be 13, to be honest, since I set the acct up for her. So that argument is out the window for us. And I am totally OK with skirting the policy of some company who set an arbitrary date/time - regardless of what some PP's have said, some company's policy is NOT a LAW....

BTW...how many of you are posting on the DIS today at work? And, remember, Stay At Home Mom's....you are still "on the clock" too, because we all know that SAHM's have the same amount of work (and then some!) as everyone else! And since it is a huge no-no to be on the phone or tablet during our kids' waking hours and not keeping our eyes on our kids and engaging them to the hilt (and keeping them off Instagram, for crying out loud!), I would say there is an inherent "Company Policy" that applies to ALL working/staying at home parents. No exceptions! So, in my eyes, unless you are o a vacation day today (and no SAHM EVER gets a vacation day, right??!!) or are retired, chances are good that you are breaking company policy. Oooohhhh!!!!!!

So, who is going against company policy and posting today??!! We might as well have a conversation with our kids "Well, it's OK, honey. I'm just bored and need some drama today. So, just a quick little lie about what I am ACTUALLY doing is the easiest way to get around the "rules" and do whatever I want. Now, go watch your PG movie because you are not 13 yet, and for goodness sake, make sure you close your eyes at the scary parts!"

You did not just bring up SAHM's. Pray tell, what law or policy are we breaking?

Work I could understand since someone else is paying for your time. But who pays my time?

Inherent company policy my behind.

Not a good way to solidify your position since the premise is extremely absurd.

But if you point me to the DIS policy or law I an breaking, I will be sure to tell my kids if I can grab their attention long enough before they just into giggles and get back to their interwebs.

You might want to look up movie ratings to see what they actually mean as well. The only rating strict on age regardless of what a parent says is NC-17.

 

[TLSnell1981]

You are teaching kids, that they can pick and choose, which rules they want to obey. Personally, I believe, there are too many rules and regulations. Parents should have more control, over raising their children. Although, that's not the world in which we live.

BTW...I do not speed. I try to set a good example.

And, Santa? If you don't believe, he doesn't bring you gifts. We also enjoy Krampus, but the kids have never believed, that he REALLY eats naughty children.

 

[ronandannette]

This is a really interesting discussion! I imagine there aren't too many people on this thread that would have any trouble making big, important decisions that reflect on their integrity or who would endorse lying, cheating or stealing on any significant scale; me included. But it's amazing how tempting it can be to compromise on little stuff, directly related to how much you either a) disrespect the source of the rule you are breaking, b) feel entitled to the thing you're trying to achieve; and/or c) lack any fear of the consequences of getting caught.

We put a lot of thought and mental energy into living in such a way that's logically and ethically consistent with our worldview and have tried to teach our DS the same. It's pretty hard to do perfectly - even when it's one of your stated goals in life. Our own self-interest often finds a way to trump lofty ideals. We never had much conflict over social media issues - luckily it wasn't near as much of a "thing" 6 or 7 years ago when DS was officially too young. But we do tend to be "rule followers" in general because respect for authority, in itself is a high value of ours. In a way that makes it even more difficult to impart nuance to a child in cases where either the whole, unvarnished truth is not only unnecessary, it can actually be very hurtful and/or when rules and conformity genuinely need to be challenged. Again, it's the areas that don't really matter that are hardest to navigate decisively, except everything really matters, in a way, doesn't it?

Full disclosure: One of the dumbest compromises I've ever made is that a couple of years ago, when DH reached a certain "stage" I got into the habit of amusing myself by attempting to see what senior discounts he could receive (movie tickets, restaurant pricing, etc.) even though he didn't qualify for them. It was more of a goof on him than anything else, but I did defraud a few companies of a few bucks each. I've outgrown the novelty now (and just wish DH was younger - LOL) but I'm embarrassed that I ever even "went there".

 

[luvsJack]

I am sorry but there are just a whole bunch of people that really need to lighten up.

Its facebook or instagram, not a jewel heist. Changing your birth year to get a flippin' social media page isn't going to turn your kid into some lying, cheating, scumbag down the road. Its just not.

Dd had FB before 13. Shoot me. And I am not going to give any reasons for it! She wanted it, her friends had it, I had a page sooo. . . just didn't see the big deal.

Is it a lie? Yep. Did I try to justify it to dd? Nope. We didn't actually have a conversation about it. She said "can I have a FB account?" I said "sure, as long as you friend me and I have your password" and that was it. She is almost 17 now and amazingly that little lie has not ruined her for life.

 

[ronandannette]

No data on a site like FB or Instagram is going to be accurate. Far from it! People have pages for their pets, who I'm quite certain cannot read or agree to the terms of the site. Lol! Just as you wouldn't allow the early Instagram account, I would never send my child to school with medication against school policy. Those policies are for the safety of all students. God forbid a student steal or be given a medication by a friend that ends up harming them in some way.

No - God forbid my child needs a rescue-inhaler or epiPen on the bus or at an extra-curricular event. Those things are going in the backpack all day, every day.

 

[smitch425]

No - God forbid my child needs a rescue-inhaler or epiPen on the bus or at an extra-curricular event. Those things are going in the backpack all day, every day.

Inhalers I can understand, but pills? Not so much.

 

[mamacatnv]

Inhalers I can understand, but pills? Not so much.

But you said you would NEVER send your kid to school with drugs since its against school policy. How is an inhaler any different(unless they are excluded from the no drug policy)? Its still a drug, it just has a different delivery system.

 

[smitch425]

But you said you would NEVER send your kid to school with drugs since its against school policy. How is an inhaler any different(unless they are excluded from the no drug policy)? Its still a drug, it just has a different delivery system.

Well, my kids don't use inhalers, so I would have no reason to include them in what I wouldn't send without running it through the proper channels. Lol

I never once said to anyone that they shouldn't send medications with their child. I said I personally would not.

 

[tinkerbellandeeyor]

Why if a kid needs to take a pill or inhaler to live and yes there are pills out thre that do safe life's like inhalers do

 

[bdcp]

Ah, relativism is alive and well. We taught our kids that you do not lie or bend the rules just because you want to do something. For health and safety, then those can be judgment calls, but otherwise, nope. An 11 year old does not "NEED" social media. They may want it, but they certainly don't need it. Delayed gratification teaches a great lesson about life.

 

[smitch425]

Why if a kid needs to take a pill or inhaler to live and yes there are pills out thre that do safe life's like inhalers do

The poster mentioning the pills said it would save her daughter 15 minutes to not have to go to the nurse for a non life threatening illness.

My comment with regards to medication was simply to show the difference in parenting styles as to the differing examples of what rules we break for our children. Nothing more. I could honestly care less if anyone sends medicine with their child. Not my child, not my business. I wouldn't send any of my own kids' medicine with them. It's handled at the office. Big whoop.

 

[mnrose]

For the "it's a lie" crowd, do you ever lie to your kids? Do you ever buy something from Amazon or across state lines and not claim it on your taxes (if applicable)? Pretended your just turned 11 kid wasn't 10 to order a kids meal? Did you ever drink before the legal age? Is there really nothing you ever ever done that was dishonest? Just once?

White lies? Sure. Lies to defraud someone? Never. Ever. I say that with 100% confidence. I've never "understated" my kids age (whether to get a cheaper meal, cheaper movie ticket or whatever). And, I've never drank before it was legal for me to do so.

Lies to get something that I was otherwise not entitled to get is not something I do. I tell a cashier if they've given me back too much change, etc. I believe in karma, and I want mine to be good. YMMV.

 

[mnrose]

You do realize that telling your kids that there is a Santa Clause is a lie that helps them get what they want, right? Lol

Not the same at all. They aren't getting ONE thing they "otherwise would not have gotten." At least in my house. I spent what I spent on holidays and it didn't matter whether it came from me or the tooth fairy. LOL.