teachers: why the late cut off dates?

[kcromley]

well, no, it is not a response to working parents with daycare issues. A generation or two ago, the vast majority of mothers were home (hence no daycare issues) and yet cut-off dates were on average later, meaning more 4 year olds went to school. It really isn't that unusual anywhere outside of the US. In the States, concerns about maturity and holding back have led to pushing up cut-off dates, but this trend isn't world-wide. So no, it doesn't really have anything to do with working parents.

 

[anabelle]

In Michigan the cutoff date is December 1. I held two of my children back. My son had a late October birthday and my daughter had a July birthday, but was 3 months pre-mature. The school they attended tested the children for readiness. Our K teacher liked the kids to test at the 5 1/2 year mark. She had taught Kindergarten 20 years at the time and said that was the best age to start.

My daughter was on the borderline and the teacher gave me the choice. To me she seemed very attached to me still, so I held her back. My son was already reading, but had maturity issues as well. Both children have done wonderfully where they were placed. I struggled with the choice I made to keep them back at first, but they are right were they need to be.

 

[mom2princessj]

BTW, I live in Chicago , Indiana does let you be more flexible than the city does. Where are you in Indiana? Still close to the city or no?

I think you were referring to me
We live right over the state line in Dyer, IN. We lived in the south suburbs before FINALLY getting back home to Indiana. I was born and raised in Indiana and dh went to high school in Indiana and then moved to the south burbs for work. We built two houses in Illiniois before I FINALLY convinced him to move back home. We did everything in Indiana (shopping, preschool, gymnastics, hockey, etc) so it really was in our best interests to move back. We aren't really any further away from the city...its about 40-50 minutes for us since we live so close to the expressway. I can't say enough about the school system we live in and the drastic difference between the academics in our school system vs the one we were in in Illinois. I'm much happier now
How do you like the schools in the city?

 

[NeverBeen2DW]

I think you were referring to me
We live right over the state line in Dyer, IN. We lived in the south suburbs before FINALLY getting back home to Indiana. I was born and raised in Indiana and dh went to high school in Indiana and then moved to the south burbs for work. We built two houses in Illiniois before I FINALLY convinced him to move back home. We did everything in Indiana (shopping, preschool, gymnastics, hockey, etc) so it really was in our best interests to move back. We aren't really any further away from the city...its about 40-50 minutes for us since we live so close to the expressway. I can't say enough about the school system we live in and the drastic difference between the academics in our school system vs the one we were in in Illinois. I'm much happier now
How do you like the schools in the city?

My son goes to a selective enrollment school so I am pretty happy with it. It just tested as #1 in the state for the 5th year in a row. So really we are very lucky he was accepted!

 

[mom2princessj]

My son goes to a selective enrollment school so I am pretty happy with it. It just tested as #1 in the state for the 5th year in a row. So really we are very lucky he was accepted!

WOW...that's fantastic!
I just saw some US stats and Illinois ranks 49th out of 50 for academics and funding to schools (public schools ofcourse). Last time I saw them IL was ranked 50th I was very relieved to move them out of IL...if we couldn't have moved we were going to put them in private school in Indiana until we could. Luckily we were able to sell our house which was kind of sad because I loved it but aside from missing that I haven't looked back.

 

[allison443]

I live in NJ. In order to start K the kids must be 5 before the first day of school. Obviously that date changes every year. The same goes for Pre-k, they must be 4 before the first day of school.

In NJ this is determined by each school district. Our school district requires kids to turn 5 by November 1. My dd started K at 4 and then turned five in October.

 

[sskem96]

When I started school, the deadline was Dec. 1. My b-day is Nov. 19, and I never had any problems. It didn't bother me a bit to be one of the youngest in my class, and frankly, I was more than ready to fly the coop when it came time to move into the dorms when I was 17.

My parents ended up holding my little brother back a year because they were worried about his social maturity. He has a Sept. birthday. He was so bored with school that he quit at 16, started community college, got his GED, and ended up graduating from law school.

At some point before I had children, the deadline was changed to Sept. 1. DD#1 was born in Dec, so she's one of the oldest in her class. I was very frustrated with the fact that she didn't learn anything in K that she hadn't already learned in her 2 years of preschool. We evidently have a very good preschool and a not so good K program, because all they were teaching in K was shapes, colors, letters, numbers, and very simple spelling. The preschool had already taught her addition and subtraction! So when DD#2, whose b-day is Sept 29, was in her 2nd year of preschool, I homeschooled her for K through Christian Liberty Academy at the same time, and when it came time to register for school in the fall, I took her K report card to the school and registered her for 1st grade. They tried to give me some trouble, but after testing her, they agreed to trial her in 1st grade for 3 weeks. After the 3 weeks, the principal said he was glad we had placed her where we knew she needed to be. She's in 4th grade now, is more mature than most of her classmates despite the age difference, and gets straight A's.

The states and school districts need to realize that every child is an individual, and there should be some flexibility in the dates. Parents should also do what they feel is best for their child. If a parent truly feels that their child isn't ready, then they should consider waiting a year, but they shouldn't wait if the only reason they're doing it is because that's what other people in the district tend to be doing.

 

[nonzerosum]

This is an interesting topic. In my area, as in most parts of Canada, a child can enter K if he or she turns 5 by March 31 of their kindergarten year. Therefore, lots of kids are 4 for the vast majority of their K year. Test scores and early literacy are very high in Canada, so perhaps that's why the super late cutoff. Lots of kids in DDs K class are reading this early in the year.

 

[tr-ray]

I have a dd who is an Oct bday. I plan on fighting pretty hard to get her into K before her 5th bday. Mainly, because as of this moment, she is 3 now, she is doing most of what any 4 yr old can do and some of what they do in K. Now this may change and I am quite aware of this, and she may not be ready when the time comes. If she is though, there is no reason in my mind to hold her back. The one thing I do not understand about the Education System, is why they are determined to not understand that not everyone learns the same. One child may be ready at 4 while another child who is 5 may not be ready. Why hold the 4 yr old back? Why force the 5 yr old to go?

I'm with you... I'm hoping that when my DD reaches that age, I can fight to get her in. Her birthday is 9/26, and even though she's still an infant (lol), I just have a feeling that she will be ready.

Not to toot my own horn, but both DH and I are relatively smart, and I have a feeling my daughter will be ready.

 

[Fabinva]

Originally Posted by jboysen
I have a dd who is an Oct bday. I plan on fighting pretty hard to get her into K before her 5th bday.

In Virginia the cutoff date is Sept 30th and my daughter is an Oct bday as well. There was nothing I could work with school so I send her to private K, she loved it and learned so much there. She is now on First grade and complained a little about being the youngest but she is doing fine.
I hope things change and schools will be more willing to give a test or at least consider a child who is a few months within the cutoff date, would had saved me lots of private K money.

 

[ajk912]

I think we should just do a nationwide cutoff of July 1. Not many schools start before July 1, so everyone will be 5 and a few months by the time they hit kindergarten. Then, there shouldn't be any "holding back", if your kid is 5 by July 1, your kid goes to kindergarten. This should help even out the classes, all the kids will be 5 or 6, not 4-7.

I agree, it's not a good idea to put a 4 year old in kindergarten nowadays. Kindergarten with today's curriculum is more suited for 5 or 6 year olds.

 

[SLK1]

I'm with you... I'm hoping that when my DD reaches that age, I can fight to get her in. Her birthday is 9/26, and even though she's still an infant (lol), I just have a feeling that she will be ready.

Not to toot my own horn, but both DH and I are relatively smart, and I have a feeling my daughter will be ready.

Just remember to consider maturity issues, and not just academic issues. There are sometimes big differences between fourth grade conversations and third grade conversations! Our principal will NOT move a child ahead for that reason...think down the line to driving, and also going off to college - you could have a 17-year-old going off to college. Don't just consider academics. There is a lot to be said for being the "oldest" in the class. If a student is that smart, the teacher should be able to find enrichment activities for them, or have them tested for a gifted program. Also, they ALL kind of level out as they get older.

 

[tr-ray]

Just remember to consider maturity issues, and not just academic issues. There are sometimes big differences between fourth grade conversations and third grade conversations! Our principal will NOT move a child ahead for that reason...think down the line to driving, and also going off to college - you could have a 17-year-old going off to college. Don't just consider academics. There is a lot to be said for being the "oldest" in the class. If a student is that smart, the teacher should be able to find enrichment activities for them, or have them tested for a gifted program. Also, they ALL kind of level out as they get older.

Oh, I agree... If she's struggling and not ready, I won't force her... But like many PP's, when I was in school, there were kids much younger than me. The cut off at the time may have been 12/31. So we had some kids who were born the entire year before, i.e turned 18 during our senior year, whereas there were some who just turned 17 at that point.

I'm not sure what the other school requirements are here, but I was truly surprised when a friend mentioned that reading was NOT required for K.

To be honest, I'm not even sure if that were the case when I was in K, but I taught myself how to read at 3. I guess it's just hard nowadays for school systems to ensure that all parents are pro-active with teaching their kids.

 

[foxlore]

Maturity issues are so important. We have had our child in private schools since K4. His schools have also been advanced academically - until our move to FL. Honestly, I don't consider their programs here advanced - even though they sure claim it. The only part of the curriculum that is ahead is math and that is questionable. I honestly don't think he's being challenged academically. I think he's getting a good education and getting a lot of bells and whistles he wasn't getting before - more art, drama, music, play... More creativity... So, there's the trade-off. He's also having a lot of fun with school - loves it. There's more play and active time as well - which is so important and so lacking in many schools. It's no wonder our kids have such weight problems with all the packaged junk food and lack of activity. Anyway, that's a whole different topic...

The problem isn't academically - I don't even think the problem is the grade per se. The problem is so many people (especially in the private sector) holding their kids back for competitive reasons... So, I'm now trying to decide whether to move my child to yet another school and then move him back a year (although he is already not challenged - I'm afraid he'd be bored out of his mind) or just leave him in place and hope for the best. Most of the kids are already 8 - one will be 9 in January - in 2nd grade. I think it's easier for girls to be the youngest, but he's having a hard time with it. As advanced as he is academically and intellectually - he's a bit behind physically. He has a movement disorder which although mild impairs his coordination. I think it will improve, but being paired with such older and more physically driven boys is causing a problem. I do not want him emotionally damaged - I don't want him to withdraw and I'm not so sure that isn't the path on which we're headed...

He says he's happy, but he also doesn't have a new real friend. He has a couple boys he'll play with, but he's mostly playing with the girls. He prefers imaginitive play - most of the boys are doing sports during recess - football or whatnot. The upside is that he has improved a bit physically - the downside is that I see him not engaging a lot - he gets teased - he can't take that. He's far too sensitive. At his age I probably would have just popped them. Joking - sort of - I did get to the point where I nailed anyone who messed with me - wasn't born that way - created. I don't want that to happen to my sweet, loving, kind, gentle and outgoing child.

We have some neighbor boys - one is exactly a week younger the other a few months younger - both are in first grade. They seem to get along so well - it seems to be a far better fit for my son physically... So, I am really wondering if, over the course of his education, he wouldn't be happier paired with younger children.

My only worries with that are, as I stated above, he is advanced - him being bored... Also not making the most of his abilities or losing work ethic. Yeah he's 7, but we do form and maintain that as we grow... When kids are very bright they already have to battle the idea of working for something - they think everything should come easily... The other worry is that he's large - he's 52 inches and nearly 70 pounds at 7. My husband is very tall - so I don't want him to seem like a giant. I suppose that's one upside of being with all these older kids - he's not the biggest... How can he be when paired with a kid that's nearly a year and a half older. My last worry is that he'll be bothered by the idea of being held back... I've broached the subject with him and he says no... Then again I asked him about switching schools and being in the same grade as his friend and he's interested in that idea...

I swear being a parent seems like one long struggle with trying to do the "right" thing and not totally mess up these little souls left in our care. I guess I just care too much.

I'm definitely open to input on trying to problem solve this.

 

[Starr W.]

In OH, our cut off for years was Sept. 30. It's moved up now to sometime in Aug.

40 some years ago, I missed the cutoff(Oct birthday) and you know what it didn't bother me.

I held my eldest back, end of Aug birthday and he wasn't the eldest in the class. I also held my 7 yr old back, because at 5 he had the fine motor skills of a 3 yr old and was getting very frustrated with cutting, coloring etc. Academically he was ready for K(taught himself the alphabet at 15months with a computer game). He did another year of preschool on an IEP with OT help. They had him caught up to grade level and he was reading easy books. Because of the extra yr, we did pony up the $ and send him to all day k.

You have to do what is right for your child, and our district actually believes that another year of preschool for any reason(social, maturity, special services) is a benefit. My youngest was saying that he still has a couple of girls in class that still cry that they want to go home at lunch time.