teachers: why the late cut off dates?

[bellebud]

I just read another thread about K and sending kids or not - and issue i've read on here many, many times, and one I struggled with too.

Do any teachers know why school districts have such late cut off dates? We're in NY, and our cut off dates for all the schools around us is Nov 30 or Dec 1, and it's been that way since I was in school here (started K in 1973).

It seems the teachers struggle having the young ones in their class as much as the parents struggle w/ whether they should send them or not. I'd also think schools would have higher testing scores if all the kids were a tad older. Do the districts never ask for teacher input as to what the cut-off date should be? I'd think the teachers are the ones to know, way more than a school board official sitting in an office.

I have always just wondered why people at some point thought "let's send 4yo's to K"... wouldn't all you teachers love to have all your K students already be 5yo? I've read before "well, SOMEONE has to be the youngest"... but why not at least let them all be 5yo before they start? It's just always bothered me, and I thought maybe someone had some insight.

 

[kacaju]

I am not a teacher but my thought is that many states start school MUCH earlier then we do in the NY area (I live in NJ)
Once I started reading these types of internet forums I was shocked to hear that schools in other parts of the US start in August!!
Just as those people are shocked to find out that we don't start until after Labor Day.
So I think the difference in cut off dates are largely due to when that area starts their school year.

 

[kcromley]

I believe the original cut-off dates were set to be more in line with other industrialized countries, where children start a more rigorous education at younger ages and seem to do quite well in testing thereafter.

 

[foxlore]

Well, I'm interested in hearing some answers to this as well. My child has always been in private school, but what we're finding in that realm is quite a few children being held back a year. Case in point - my child is in 2nd grade this year and there's another child turning 9 on January 2nd. There are children who will be 9 in April, May, June... You get the picture. My child was 7 in May and complains frequently about being the youngest. Here's the problem - holding back would mean sheer boredom... I wish there were more gifted programs available (truly gifted programs - not some hodgepodge program) where the curriculum was advanced, but the children were in age appropriate groups. It's not just intellect it's social and physical maturity and a year and a half makes a huge difference at a young age. I was always one of the youngest kids too - July - but our cut offs were more like yours - November... It just seemed entirely different when I was a kid... You didn't have people holding their children back a year in order to enhance their competitiveness - honestly I think that is a big part of the problem. At any rate, it seems to be a situation of what you should sacrifice and that's annoying.

 

[3 Little Princesses]

I live in NJ. In order to start K the kids must be 5 before the first day of school. Obviously that date changes every year. The same goes for Pre-k, they must be 4 before the first day of school. I believe when I was little you could be 5 up until Dec 31 or so. So it has changed in some places. What a lot of people don't realize is that those who turn 5 after Oct/Nov are not as mature. One or two months makes a really big difference. For those kids that are mentally ready they may not be emotionally ready.

My youngest DD was born Dec 7. She will be one of the older kids in her class when she starts K. As of right now she is smart enough but not mature enough to go to Pre-k. She need the extra year in preschool.

 

[delmar411]

I think the schools have to balance out the kids coming into K each year which is why some places do have longer cut off dates. When I was a child it was a Dec cut off to be 5. Now here the child has to be 5 before the 1st of Aug and you can have them tested into K if they turn 5 before I believe Sept but it is only if there is room in the classes for additional students.

I wish the cut off wasn't so strict as my DD turned 5 in Oct and will be one of the oldest in her class next year but she would have done well this year in K. So I think holding her back might be problematic over the next few years. I also could still hold her back yet another year as she doesn't have to start school until she is 7. Can you imagine the age range then in K, children just turned 5 to children turning 7!

They also require the kids to do a lot more in K now then we were kids so I think that has some bearing on the cut offs too. We weren't reading in K as a child but now my kids need to know all the letters by sight and by sound and be able to write so that the teachers can teach them to read in K.

 

[JeffreyY]

I am a NYC teacher and we live in NYC. The cut off date here is 12/31 and I don't know of anyone who has held their child back. If you make the cutoff you send the child (and it is almost impossible as a teacher to hold a student back in K). We have a great number of 4 year olds in K. This was no problem when K was what it was supposed to be, readiness for school. Students used to play, socialize, nap and learn skills to get ready to read. Now of course K is more like first grade. There is no nap allowed, they use many workbooks, are expected to read, write and do math by mid-year. This is developmentally inappropriate for 4 and 5 year olds. So I think that many school districts have pushed cut off date to Aug, Sept so that they don't have 4 year olds to teach (and many parents hold back their children so they can meet the new demands of K). I think that if K was what it was meant to be we would have many more successful students in the later grades. Developmentally children are ready to read at about age 6 or 7. If we waited until then to teach reading most children would learn to read quickly without struggling. In other countries reading is not taught until the child is 7ish. We here in America feel the more we teach the more a child will learn. This is not true and just leads to more frustrated children who are being classified with learning problems.


Sorry for the rant but I feel so sad for my students and my own children who are caught up in this push for academics at such a young age.

 

[carj]

In Texas, it is not up to the individual districts. Our cut-off is September 1, no matter when we start school. There was talk a few years ago of moving the cut-off to June 1. Then there would be no 4 year olds ever starting Kindergarten. I don't know whatever happened to that.

We don't have any testing or other options for getting your child into Kindergarten if they don't make the cut-off. If you want them in K early, you can find a private school, if they are wiling to accept a 4 year old into Kindergaten.

We also so have a beginning of school requirement for the schools. We can't start school any earlier than the 4th Monday in August. This is because sooo many schools were starting earlier and earlier. (It costs a lot to run the A/C in August because it is so hot!)

 

[mommy2g]

I grew up in France where the cutoff date is 12/31 and noone holds kid back based solely on their birthday. Skipping a grade is also quite common so, between kids skipping and kids repeating grades by the time we were in middle school there was quite a large range of ages in each class. It was no big deal to us.

 

[kcromley]

with all due respect to the NYC teacher, many children are reading before age 6 or 7, and many countries (say, Canada or the UK) have more rigorous academic programs than the States, and their 4 year olds seem to do just fine in those programs. The "holding back" issue seems uniquely American.

 

[poegirl30]

In TN, our cut off date is Sept.30 I believe. I'm a teacher (middle school), and I am glad that my 14 yr old's birthday is in November, so he was closer to six when he started K. He needed the extra year of preschool for maturity. I have a three year old, and he misses the cut off by three weeks, so he will be closer to six as well, which is fine because he really needs the extra time. My DD (16) didn't. Each child is different. Personally, I'm not in favor of holding kids back, but there are pre-first programs for those kids that are in-between. I'm not elementary, but I've had tons of students that have benefitted by going to pre-first. I think, though, that holding a child back can sometimes have a negative impact on a child, so it needs to be a carefully made decision.

 

[DawnM]

Our cut off date just changed. I think it used to be mid October and now it is the last day of August.

In CA it was Dec. 6th.

I haven't had to worry about it as all of my kids were 5 when they started K anyway and didn't make any cut offs to go earlier.


Dawn

 

[TexasTodds]

I'm sure that alot of people would disagree but my oldest son has a late March birthday (in Texas, cut off is Sept. 1st), and we also suspected that he had ADHD from a very young age. We did hold him back and put him in a "bridge" program so that he could have the extra year to mature while still being challenged academically. It had nothing to do with being competitive with other children, and everything to do with doing what was best for him.

Yes, he is certainly one of the oldest in his class, but I still would do it again. He is very confident, and while school is never without issues, why would you want to put your child into a situation where each day would be a struggle just to get by?

I also "bridged" my younger son who has a late May Birthday. His was a more difficult decision since he was stronger academically, but still very immature. He is now in Kindergarten and doing well, and I don't regret that decision either.

It is never wrong to do what YOU think would be the most beneficial for your child, even if it is not the normal practice.

 

[jboysen]

I have a dd who is an Oct bday. I plan on fighting pretty hard to get her into K before her 5th bday. Mainly, because as of this moment, she is 3 now, she is doing most of what any 4 yr old can do and some of what they do in K. Now this may change and I am quite aware of this, and she may not be ready when the time comes. If she is though, there is no reason in my mind to hold her back. The one thing I do not understand about the Education System, is why they are determined to not understand that not everyone learns the same. One child may be ready at 4 while another child who is 5 may not be ready. Why hold the 4 yr old back? Why force the 5 yr old to go?

 

[DisneyAllison]

I am a teacher, and our cut-off is August 1st. We start school the 2nd week of August. My daughter turned 5 at the end of September. She will turn 6 in the 2nd month of school in Kindergarten. I thrilled that she will be one of the older students. I have taught Kindergarten in the past and teach 3rd grade now. The biggest issue I see with the younger students is maturity. They may be very academically capable, but if their maturity level is low, it affects them socially and academically.

 

[jellybeans0607]

First off I am not a teacher...but I don't really think it matters where the cut off is. There will always be young kids in a class and there will always be kids that struggle in a class...but the 2 don't necessarily go hand in hand.

I'm in MA and out cut off date is Aug. 31st. My middle child will be 5 on dec 28th, he is so ready to go to K, but can't. If I lived in NY, he could and would do quite well.

My youngest is 3, he will make the cut off for K in 2 years by 9 days. I haven't sent him to school yet( I believe in only doing one year of PK). I will be very surprised if I even feel he is ready for PK in the fall. He will most likely not start K until he is 6.

There will always be cutt offs...there will always be kids that should ahve waited..there will always be kids that get screwed because of the cut off.

 

[NeverBeen2DW]

My son's b-day is late April. He went into K knowing how to read, knowing single digit adding and subtracting. As did his classmates because he is in an so called "gifted" school. I personally dislike that term. At any rate my experience is this. He is now in first grade and he is 6 1/2. Most of his classmates are turning 7 already. He is much more emotionally immature than his classmates. If I could do it over agian I would of held him back because socially he is really behind. Academically, he is an A student. On the flip side if your child is mature enough to handle it go for it. My son has a friend he has grown up with a June b-day. She is much more mature than him. Also note I said "she". I think boys are later bloomers when it comes to social developement. Just my 2 cents.

 

[mom2princessj]

In Indiana, the cutoff is Aug 1 but you can petition and then the cutoff would be Sept 1. We are in a district where they test your child before kindergarten (they didn't do this where we lived in Illinois). If your child tests poorly they have a program called 'early 5s'. I imagine its like a pre-k type program. I think it has benefit for some children that may not be mature enough or not know the 'basics' that are expected when they arrive to kindergarten.
I agreed with the post about how kindergarten is not what it used to be. Most programs are full day now and its ALOT more learning than it ever was before. No napping...no time for that its all learning with some play mixed in. My dd is prepared and ready. I could have sent her this year however I just felt like it would do her good socially and maturity wise to hold her out until she was 6. I feel like I made the right decision. We do alot of extra work at home with kindergarten workbooks, sight word flash cards, and addition/subtraction math. I just now feel like she's completely understanding and rolling along with it and we started at the beginning of the school year. To each their own though...I'm glad my dd will be 6 when she starts.

 

[NeverBeen2DW]

BTW, I live in Chicago , Indiana does let you be more flexible than the city does. Where are you in Indiana? Still close to the city or no?

 

[bellebud]

So I think the difference in cut off dates are largely due to when that area starts their school year.

I don't know... we start right after labor day, and our cut off is Nov 30. We have many 4yo's in K, because there's a full 3 months between the start of school and the cut off.

They also require the kids to do a lot more in K now then we were kids so I think that has some bearing on the cut offs too. We weren't reading in K as a child but now my kids need to know all the letters by sight and by sound and be able to write so that the teachers can teach them to read in K.

but this is my point - our area has many 4yo's in K - but they're required to learn all these things. I wish everyone was 5 for K, because they're learning how to read.

We have a great number of 4 year olds in K. This was no problem when K was what it was supposed to be, readiness for school. Students used to play, socialize, nap and learn skills to get ready to read. Now of course K is more like first grade.

so true! I really hate it!

In Texas, it is not up to the individual districts. Our cut-off is September 1, no matter when we start school. There was talk a few years ago of moving the cut-off to June 1. Then there would be no 4 year olds ever starting Kindergarten. I don't know whatever happened to that.

I would love to see a June 1 cut off! There must be a reason why districts don't do this. Kids having to stay home longer = more working parents having to deal with daycare issues a little longer??? that's the only thing I can think of. I don't agree w/ it, but maybe that's why?