teacher myths

[PrincessKsMom]

See that's the thing. It's not 9 months of work. That's a myth. Training over the summer is required. When a teacher is changed to a different grade or subject or even moves to a new room as schools open and close, summers and/or weekends are spent getting up to speed, studying, etc. We have 6 weeks "off" during which there are several 5-day classes the district has us take, many many one-day classes, "retreats", plus the above, plus required hours to maintain our certification (required), or just hone our skills to ensure we are good educators.

I don't expect people who aren't teachers to know these things but we all say the same things and we can't ALL be lying. I love what I do. And I love even going in and working in the school during the summer because it makes my school year better, my kids are more successful learners, and our country (I believe) will be better for it in the future. And, myths abound.

That said, I think we all (any profession including childrearing SAHM) have a sense that what we do is harder than what anyone else does and that we could go in and do whatever others do better, faster, and for less money. I suppose it's human nature?

Maybe this is the case where you teach, but I have friends who are teachers in NJ and no such summer training is required. Also, there are mandatory training days, but they are scheduled during the school year and they close school for teachers to attend. Some schools close early June and open after Labor Days, others close end of June and open after Labor Day. Teachers go back to school a week before the children, so they start back on September 1. So somewhere between 2-3 months off during the summer and that's not counting Christmas break, Spring/Easter break and something they have in NY but not in NJ, mid-winter break. I understand you have class prep and test grading and such, but, at least where I live, you have off 2-3 months in the summer and all the other school closings. Even if you don't get the whole 2-3 months where you are, do you honestly feel your job is a 12 month job? Again, if you're getting $75-$100k and have all that time off, I say quit complaining. Some of us make less than that have off 2-4 weeks vacation max per year.

 

[MELSMICE]

So that's it, huh? Time served, get a Master's (which you can do online quickly these days), and you get $100,000? How about graduation rates? How about extra time spent with students? How about parental reviews/complaints? Seems like these should be in order.

Since my best friend is a teacher, I know A LOT of teachers, and there are plenty who are there just to get their 100K for their "time served."

I'm glad to see people on the DIS are so noble, and are teaching for the intrinsic nature of the vocation, but that's not the way it is everywhere. In our area, the teachers fight, then they strike, then they bargain, then they get their raises and our taxes go up. For the next 4 to 5 years, some (not all) put their feet up and coast, safe in the knowledge that a new contract will be coming around the bend and the same process will result in more money in their pockets, with barely a finger lifted.

I also said experience & qualifications.

True, but for 9 months' work?

A myth - it is not only 9 months of work.

ummmm...one of my degrees is a MEd. I could go into that class and teach. I also have an understanding of the content and crowd control due to other factors in in my life. I took the stupid lesson planning classes, and frankly thought they were pathetic. Plan 10 days of math lessons, blah, blah, blah.

Grade school isn't rocket science. Sorry if you think so. Do I think people need to paid decently to teach, sure I do. I don't devalue teachers. I just don't worship them either, nor do I think they are some sort of magician or saint.

I am not a teacher, but I find this comment derogatory & degrading to educators.

There is much more than "crowd control" when teaching children - regardless of age. Lesson planning........you may think it's stupid, but a well prepared teacher is doing more for her students than the teacher that thinks planning something is a complete waste of time.

That said, I think we all (any profession including childrearing SAHM) have a sense that what we do is harder than what anyone else does and that we could go in and do whatever others do better, faster, and for less money. I suppose it's human nature?

Well said. Speaking from first hand experience, until you walk in someone else's shoes, don't judge how easy or difficult the job is.

 

[daughtersrus]

I'm pretty sure these are standard pay schedule salaries, and do not include sports, as the teachers in the same service range all have the same salary.

As to the Years vs. District Years, there are plenty that are different 35/25, 18/15, etc.

Do you have a link for this database? The one that I'm looking at for PA says "salary" and doesn't say if it's only for teaching. My guess is that it's for their total salary as that is what they would be pulling from the public records.

Also, I edited my last post after you responded to ask what degree this teacher has. Is it a BA, MA, PhD, or one of these + hours?

Here is the link that I was using.

http://php.app.com/PAteachers09/res...ssignment=Social+Studies,+10-12&Submit=Search

 

[daughtersrus]

Maybe this is the case where you teach, but I have friends who are teachers in NJ and no such summer training is required. Also, there are mandatory training days, but they are scheduled during the school year and they close school for teachers to attend..

Teachers in NJ don't have to do Cont. Ed. Hours to keep their license?

 

[Toad_Passenger]

Do you have a link for this database? The one that I'm looking at for PA says "salary" and doesn't say if it's only for teaching. My guess is that it's for their total salary as that is what they would be pulling from the public records.

Also, I edited my last post after you responded to ask what degree this teacher has. Is it a BA, MA, PhD, or one of these + hours?

Here is the link that I was using.

http://php.app.com/PAteachers09/res...ssignment=Social+Studies,+10-12&Submit=Search

That's the same link I was using. The only reason I didn't think it included extracurricular activities was because of the column that listed % based on job listed, or something like that. Most of those are at 100%, plus that most people within the same district share the same exact salary, and I'm sure they're not ALL coaching.

The truth of the matter is that I have no ill-will towards teachers. My friends are teachers, most of the people I prize in my life have been teachers. But I think a lot of teachers instantly dismiss some of what the community is saying. I try to be level-headed when I have these discussions, but it really comes down to a district-by-district sort of thing, and, at least in Pennsylvania, we're getting to a point where the Union and the Teachers are going to start exploding budgets. Where does it end is all I ask?

 

[Michelle and crew]

I am not a teacher, but I find this comment derogatory & degrading to educators.

There is much more than "crowd control" when teaching children - regardless of age. Lesson planning........you may think it's stupid, but a well prepared teacher is doing more for her students than the teacher that thinks planning something is a complete waste of time.

Lol, do YOU think that teaching grade school is rocket science?

Would you feel better to know that most jobs aren't. Most jobs could be done by someone with a good career training program. It doesn't take a master's program to become a good teacher. It is just a silly requirement by the govt. who has no clue how to improve the educational system.

The teachers in our county work 9 months, period. Training can be done during the school year or many of them CHOOSE to go to a training elsewhere so that they can party for the week. Their words, not mine. These are my pool mom buddies. They appreciate their schedule...a lot! I, btw, have to pay for my own career enhancement training, also.

btw, I never suggested that crowd control was the primary issue in schools. But if you have ever worked with a group of kids that is always an aspect of it.

 

[golfgal]

That's the same link I was using. The only reason I didn't think it included extracurricular activities was because of the column that listed % based on job listed, or something like that. Most of those are at 100%, plus that most people within the same district share the same exact salary, and I'm sure they're not ALL coaching.

The truth of the matter is that I have no ill-will towards teachers. My friends are teachers, most of the people I prize in my life have been teachers. But I think a lot of teachers instantly dismiss some of what the community is saying. I try to be level-headed when I have these discussions, but it really comes down to a district-by-district sort of thing, and, at least in Pennsylvania, we're getting to a point where the Union and the Teachers are going to start exploding budgets. Where does it end is all I ask?

I looked up the median house price in Abington, PA because those were the first salaries listed on your link. The median house price is $260,000 and looking at those numbers, a teaching working in that district for 10 years STILL would not qualify to buy a house in that district. I have no idea if this is a good area, bad area or what. The median house price in our district is about the same as this town and after 10 years plus masters degree teachers make about $66K-and would not qualify to buy an average house in our area. To me that is just not right.

 

[daughtersrus]

That's the same link I was using. The only reason I didn't think it included extracurricular activities was because of the column that listed % based on job listed, or something like that. Most of those are at 100%, plus that most people within the same district share the same exact salary, and I'm sure they're not ALL coaching.

The truth of the matter is that I have no ill-will towards teachers. My friends are teachers, most of the people I prize in my life have been teachers. But I think a lot of teacher's instantly dismiss some of what the community is saying. I try to be level-headed when I have these discussions, but it really comes down to a district-by-district sort of thing, and, at least in Pennsylvania, we're getting to a point where the Union and the Teachers are going to start exploding budgets. Where does it end is all I ask?

I'm going to disagree with you the extras being included. I didn't see any that were over 100% so how/where are they reporting this information? The 100% probably refers to the contract that they signed. The contract would have included the extras so 100% could included these stipends.

It would be interesting to know what the salaries for the administrators in the districts are. How much impact do these salaries and packages have on the district compared to those negotiated by the union on behalf of the teachers? I know that here, it's quite common to pay a Super to have their pay jump quite a bit the last few years of their contract because retirement is based on the last few years instead of the average.

Our Super made about $260,000 last year in a district with the starting salary for a teacher at $39,000

 

[PrincessKsMom]

Teachers in NJ don't have to do Cont. Ed. Hours to keep their license?

Here's a document I found online pertaining to NJ. Notice that attendance at NJEA convention counts toward 100 continuing education credits need over 5 years. NJ schools close two days in November so the teachers can go to Atlantic City for this convention.

I don't pretend to know everything about this, as I'm not a teacher. I'm simply going on what I know from friends who are teachers. I also know that if you are asked to rewrite curriculum over the summer, that's extra money you are paid.

http://www.state.nj.us/education/genfo/overview/faq_profdev.htm

 

[golfgal]

Lol, do YOU think that teaching grade school is rocket science?

Would you feel better to know that most jobs aren't. Most jobs could be done by someone with a good career training program. It doesn't take a master's program to become a good teacher. It is just a silly requirement by the govt. who has no clue how to improve the educational system.

The teachers in our county work 9 months, period. Training can be done during the school year or many of them CHOOSE to go to a training elsewhere so that they can party for the week. Their words, not mine. These are my pool mom buddies. They appreciate their schedule...a lot! I, btw, have to pay for my own career enhancement training, also.

btw, I never suggested that crowd control was the primary issue in schools. But if you have ever worked with a group of kids that is always an aspect of it.

I challenge you to go spend 2 weeks in a 3rd grade classroom teaching the kids and then come back and tell us anyone can do it.

 

[PrincessKsMom]

I looked up the median house price in Abington, PA because those were the first salaries listed on your link. The median house price is $260,000 and looking at those numbers, a teaching working in that district for 10 years STILL would not qualify to buy a house in that district. I have no idea if this is a good area, bad area or what. The median house price in our district is about the same as this town and after 10 years plus masters degree teachers make about $66K-and would not qualify to buy an average house in our area. To me that is just not right.

Of course assuming you are a single person without a husband/wife with a second income. I think this is probably true in most areas of the U.S. in this economy.

 

[Toad_Passenger]

I looked up the median house price in Abington, PA because those were the first salaries listed on your link. The median house price is $260,000 and looking at those numbers, a teaching working in that district for 10 years STILL would not qualify to buy a house in that district. I have no idea if this is a good area, bad area or what. The median house price in our district is about the same as this town and after 10 years plus masters degree teachers make about $66K-and would not qualify to buy an average house in our area. To me that is just not right.

How would they not qualify for a 260K house? What kind of money do you think you need to make to pay for a house of that price? I only ask because we have friends who make about 70K as a household and, 2 years ago, purchased a house for about 300K. They pay their mortgage comfortably and still have plenty left over for savings.

 

[Tinkermommy]

I looked up the median house price in Abington, PA because those were the first salaries listed on your link. The median house price is $260,000 and looking at those numbers, a teaching working in that district for 10 years STILL would not qualify to buy a house in that district. I have no idea if this is a good area, bad area or what. The median house price in our district is about the same as this town and after 10 years plus masters degree teachers make about $66K-and would not qualify to buy an average house in our area. To me that is just not right.

Salaries are not based on cost of living for the place of employment. They are based on what the employer is willing to pay and what the employee is willing to accept.

Schools are a cost center. They do not generate profit and thus the salaries are not commiserate with the private sector.

I can't go to my boss and say the average house price in this area is X. I need a raise! Doesn't work that way anywhere.

 

[daughtersrus]

Salaries are not based on cost of living for the place of employment. .

CPS teachers are required to live in Chicago. I'm not sure if any other city/town requires this of their teachers.

I know that in our district, if you are in administration and you move from the residence that you lived in when hired, you are required to move into the district.

 

[KiKi Mouse]

All I was saying was that, in the jobs I've had, and the jobs my friends have, and my husband.... they all have lunch hours where they can do stuff outside the office if need be. I'm sure there are jobs that don't allow this, but I don't know anyone who has one except for teacher friends.

I used to be a jail guard and we weren't allowed to leave the jail during our 12 hour shift. We were paid for 12 hours but it sure didn't feel like we ever got a break. I ate all my meals in my department because we were so busy.

 

[Michelle and crew]

There aren't any guarantees for any job to be able to buy a home in a specific area especially on a single income.

As for teaching for 2 weeks, I did 4 sets of Safety Town this year. 30 kids in a group, all day long, 2 week classes. It was a busy summer. Crowd control and teaching. No biggie. It isn't rocket science, I'm sorry. That doesn't make it not important. I'm 30 years into a career that has involved a huge committment to the school system. I like teachers. But you all aren't any more important than the rest of the world. Just another cog in the machine of life.

 

[PrincessKsMom]

POTUS -- $400,000 p/yr, 24/7, 365, 4 years, and literally the weight of the world on your shoulders. I don't think there's an amount of money you could pay me to take on that job. (Please don't start a Rep/Dem argument; it doesn't matter, the numbers are the numbers).

 

[NotUrsula]

POTUS -- $400,000 p/yr, 24/7, 365, 4 years, and literally the weight of the world on your shoulders. I don't think there's an amount of money you could pay me to take on that job. (Please don't start a Rep/Dem argument; it doesn't matter, the numbers are the numbers).

Ah, but the bennies are worth a whole lot, too, perhaps even more than the salary. (Of course, the downside is that you essentially lose all privacy and right to free movement -- the White House has jokingly been called the Crown Jewel of the Federal Corrections System.)

Benefits calculations ARE part of any discussion like this. My employer sends a letter each year spelling out the $ value of all of our compensation, including the benefits. My benefits are valued at $13,600. That includes my employer's contribution to FICA, 401K, insurance premiums that they pay, and professional memberships. When you add that number to my salary it looks a lot nicer.

 

[golfgal]

Salaries are not based on cost of living for the place of employment. They are based on what the employer is willing to pay and what the employee is willing to accept.

Schools are a cost center. They do not generate profit and thus the salaries are not commiserate with the private sector.

I can't go to my boss and say the average house price in this area is X. I need a raise! Doesn't work that way anywhere.

Actually they are to a point. If you live in an area where it costs $500K to buy a house and are only willing to pay $30K to someone, you won't get any employees. Companies that have offices around the country do make allowances for cost of living differences. On the converse, no company is going to pay someone $150K in an area where you can buy a house for $40K and only need a BA for the job either. All of this assuming minimum education and experience requirements but for a job that requires a Masters Degree they wage should be a livable wage for the area.

 

[golfgal]

How would they not qualify for a 260K house? What kind of money do you think you need to make to pay for a house of that price? I only ask because we have friends who make about 70K as a household and, 2 years ago, purchased a house for about 300K. They pay their mortgage comfortably and still have plenty left over for savings.

How much money did they put down too. Most mortgage companies are not going to lend you 3x+'s your salary.