Tax return is nearly $3000 LESS because I worked part-time last year!

[luvsJack]

You do realized you answered your own question - right? Have you ever called the government when you saw their system being abused? Most people don't but would take the time when they saw it happening in a situation where they felt ownership. Plus that woman didn't keep going back to the same church...but she sure would have kept doing it to the government if she had a scam goign there.

Also - we need to help the people in our own backyards before we go and save the world. We can't possibly help everyone in the world...we have to start here and then go do the places beyond the US.

I support US and Foreign charities. And that would continue to happen. The existing charitable organizations would not be picking up all the slack...there would be news ones to help.

Yeah, that may work. But we were calling about one person that we knew because my idiot brother used to be married to her. Not sure how well it would work when you up the number of people the churches are helping.

 

[luvsJack]

well we are talking about the gettho, i didnt bring it up, i do have compasion but its not compassion if im forced to do it. i have never said kick people out in the streets or dont feed them.

The only thing i have said was if you work you should pay the same percent rate as me.

are u done personnely insulting me because you dont agree with me and get back to the facts that the tax codes are wrong and the middle class is getting more and more squezzed every year, because bleed liberals like you what everything to be equal how about we start with an equal tax poilcy

I didn't insult you or at least that was not my intention. But I don't think your "men on white horses and whips" comment was in any way appropriate.

I also never said everything had to be equal. I simply said and still maintain that everyone that qualifies for EIC is NOT lazy, unproductive or a burden to society.

 

[ohlas]

And what if your DH's family won't help you. Or, what if you didn't have DH's family to rely on? I pay my share of taxes. I also grew up extremely poor and don't want other children to have to go thru that. It was heartbreaking. I'm glad you are in such a good position now but not everyone is. I really think there needs to be a system of check and balances with the current system.

We are in a good position because we didnt sit back and wait for anyone to do it for us..

As for his family, his brothers would staighten him out for me lol, yes we are tight family, we all help each other as family should. im srry for you if you dont have good family support.

I say we because we have both worked in this marriage to get to where we are now.

The facts are there will always be poor kids, but i choose to change from being poor, if i can so can they, stop makeing excuses for people.

and when is giving someone a laptop to play on from my taxes dollar really helping them.

 

[Colleen27]

The true value of the dollar goes down as the various layers of governmnet get their cut along the way. Further, the Fed sends large quantities of bulk cash to foreign entities or use it to service the debt in a way that direct spending doesn't. Money into the fed does not equal money out to private industry to be used by the economy.

Actually, with so little business activity conducted at the local level any more, there's not much difference in the multipliers. Whether I give my dollar to Uncle Sam to get passed around into bureaucratic salaries and have part of it come back to members of my community as EITC or I give my dollar to Kmart to have part come back as wages while the rest goes to shareholders and foreign suppliers makes little difference in the practical effect - either way, the bulk of the dollar has left the community, while only a small portion stays to be recirculated in the local economy.

 

[ohlas]

I didn't insult you or at least that was not my intention. But I don't think your "men on white horses and whips" comment was in any way appropriate.

I also never said everything had to be equal. I simply said and still maintain that everyone that qualifies for EIC is NOT lazy, unproductive or a burden to society.

i see no difference from welfare, public housing aid to dep children food stamps and then telling people they have to go pick up trash to get this any different then being a slave its not even min wage really. and to point that out is wrong but the idea of making people do that isnt wrong????

to me the only difference is the horses and whips

have u lived in public housing where people pee in the hallways

 

[ccgirl]

We are in a good position because we didnt sit back and wait for anyone to do it for us..

As for his family, his brothers would staighten him out for me lol, yes we are tight family, we all help each other as family should. im srry for you if you dont have good family support.

I say we because we have both worked in this marriage to get to where we are now.

The facts are there will always be poor kids, but i choose to change from being poor, if i can so can they, stop makeing excuses for people.

and when is giving someone a laptop to play on from my taxes dollar really helping them.

Not sure why you assumed I did not have a good family support system. Quite the opposite. I have an excellent family support system. But, you do realize there are more people in this world than you and not everyone has the good family support system; right? What about the woman fleeing from an abusive situation whose family doesn't support her decision? I worked darn hard for what I have as well. So have a lot of other people when bad luck strikes them and they are now at the bottom of the barrel, so to speak. I think it is up to us to pick them up for a while until they can get back on their own feet but to say I don't care how you got there, pick yourself backup is not the most humane thing.

 

[kgc07]

well we are talking about the gettho, i didnt bring it up, i do have compasion but its not compassion if im forced to do it. i have never said kick people out in the streets or dont feed them.

The only thing i have said was if you work you should pay the same percent rate as me.

are u done personnely insulting me because you dont agree with me and get back to the facts that the tax codes are wrong and the middle class is getting more and more squezzed every year, because bleed liberals like you what everything to be equal how about we start with an equal tax poilcy

It's not the liberals that want the middle class to be taxed higher. The richest sometimes get taxed the LEAST.

 

[ccgirl]

It's not the liberals that want the middle class to be taxed higher. The richest get taxed the LEAST.

I'm confused. Don't you pay a higher tax rate (percentage of your taxes) the more money you make?

 

[ohlas]

Not sure why you assumed I did not have a good family support system. Quite the opposite. I have an excellent family support system. But, you do realize there are more people in this world than you and not everyone has the good family support system; right? What about the woman fleeing from an abusive situation whose family doesn't support her decision? I worked darn hard for what I have as well. So have a lot of other people when bad luck strikes them and they are now at the bottom of the barrel, so to speak. I think it is up to us to pick them up for a while until they can get back on their own feet but to say I don't care how you got there, pick yourself backup is not the most humane thing.

you must have not read all the post on here i have said more then once we should support the disabled, old people and temp out of work people... long term support is wrong it teaches nothing...just make you more dependant

what i have problem with is why do i pay a higher rate then you that is wrong, just because i have worked smarter lol or harder then you.


flat tax flat tax sales or income pick one but flax tax, if you want a better life go make one this is america.

 

[kgc07]

I'm confused. Don't you pay a higher tax rate (percentage of your taxes) the more money you make?

It depends, but not always.

 

[ohlas]

It's not the liberals that want the middle class to be taxed higher. The richest sometimes get taxed the LEAST.

ok srry havent taken your crazy math class yet..... good i cannt wait to get out of middle class then so i can be rich and get taxed the least like the poor.

 

[ohlas]

Not sure why you assumed I did not have a good family support system. Quite the opposite. I have an excellent family support system. But, you do realize there are more people in this world than you and not everyone has the good family support system; right? What about the woman fleeing from an abusive situation whose family doesn't support her decision? I worked darn hard for what I have as well. So have a lot of other people when bad luck strikes them and they are now at the bottom of the barrel, so to speak. I think it is up to us to pick them up for a while until they can get back on their own feet but to say I don't care how you got there, pick yourself backup is not the most humane thing.

nope im the only person in the world woo hoo i get disney all the myself, that would be so werido almost like a nightmare.

 

[HHSTigerFan]

I think the component that is missing in this argument is what happens if the govt gets out of the welfare business:

1. I up my charity dollars - as would many of my friends and the businesses they own...b/c we would feel like we could choose organizations that would be good stewards of our money. I am sure that a $1000 given to a non-profit will go farther than $1000 given to the government. More non-profits will actually lead to more jobs as well.

2. I will also have more disposable income...so I will buy more things, take more trips, etc. and what will that do - CREATE MORE JOBS

3. With lower tax responsibilities - employers will keep jobs in the US and have more money to pay for salaries.

4. There will be more jobs in the US for the people who are unskilled therefore meaning less people will need to be on welfare.

The people who TRULY need assistance will be able to get it - those who are lazy and working the system will not and will end up having to get a job - which will be available b/c there will be more jobs b/c people will be spending more money which will create more jobs.

Honestly, right now we give very little to charities, and what we do give goes to our church a little to our local youth sports.. Our view is we give our charity to the IRS and they handle it for us..

 

[Muushka]

It's not the liberals that want the middle class to be taxed higher. The richest sometimes get taxed the LEAST.

If we taxed by consumption, everyone would be paying their fare share.

People complain about the wealthy not paying taxes. If they truly are very wealthy, chances are they don't work. The only thing that they are taxed on is interest on their investments (well, the interest that they allow the government to see). If they were taxed on consumption (and all those who find ways of cheating on their taxes by taking ridiculous deductions or not at all as in the case of prostitution or drug dealers or name the non-taxable occupation), it would be a much fairer system.

That consumption tax would be in place of our current income tax, not in addition to (read VAT).

 

[sam_gordon]

I'm confused. Don't you pay a higher tax rate (percentage of your taxes) the more money you make?

Depends on your deductions. The more deductions, the less you pay in taxes.

 

[kgc07]

If we taxed by consumption, everyone would be paying their fare share.

People complain about the wealthy not paying taxes. If they truly are very wealthy, chances are they don't work. The only thing that they are taxed on is interest on their investments (well, the interest that they allow the government to see). If they were taxed on consumption (and all those who find ways of cheating on their taxes by taking ridiculous deductions or not at all as in the case of prostitution or drug dealers or name the non-taxable occupation), it would be a much fairer system.

That consumption tax would be in place of our current income tax, not in addition to (read VAT).

I would be all for a consumption tax. Then everyone would be taxed fairly and there would be no reason for people to complain. No more "these people get more money back than they pay in". Everyone pays the same rate based on what consumer goods are purchased.

 

[snowywhite89]

I would be all for a consumption tax. Then everyone would be taxed fairly and there would be no reason for people to complain. No more "these people get more money back than they pay in". Everyone pays the same rate based on what consumer goods are purchased.

A VAT would be fine but I worry that the income tax would not go away and we would just pay more in taxes.

 

[ohlas]

I would be all for a consumption tax. Then everyone would be taxed fairly and there would be no reason for people to complain. No more "these people get more money back than they pay in". Everyone pays the same rate based on what consumer goods are purchased.

i vote yes if they can never change the rate and they tax everything flat food, sinful things, cars, house all the same not different levels depending on what lobbyest pay what to get a lower rate and almost forgot stop borrowing money....balanced books.

 

[Colleen27]

I'm confused. Don't you pay a higher tax rate (percentage of your taxes) the more money you make?

It gets complicated, because different types of income are treated differently.

Limiting the conversation strictly to earned income and income taxes, you're right - the more you make, the higher your effective rate. But when you start tossing the exclusion of unearned income from the social security system, the cap on social security contributions, the separate rate for capital gains, and all the other complexities of our system as a whole you find that the middle class does in fact pay higher rates than the very wealthy.

The rich don't pay the least by any means - that goes to those at the very bottom of the ladder who pay negative effective rates - but they do often pay a lower rate than the middle/upper middle classes who have a relatively high income that is all earned rather than derived from ownership and investments. Warren Buffett raised this point a few years back by pointing out that he pays a much lower effective tax rate than his secretary.

If we taxed by consumption, everyone would be paying their fare share.

People complain about the wealthy not paying taxes. If they truly are very wealthy, chances are they don't work. The only thing that they are taxed on is interest on their investments (well, the interest that they allow the government to see). If they were taxed on consumption (and all those who find ways of cheating on their taxes by taking ridiculous deductions or not at all as in the case of prostitution or drug dealers or name the non-taxable occupation), it would be a much fairer system.

That consumption tax would be in place of our current income tax, not in addition to (read VAT).

Consumption taxes are heavily biased against the working classes who need to spend virtually all of their income on essentials like food and clothing, and still allows the wealthy an "out" by the fact that it only covers goods and services purchased in the United States. For those who can readily afford foreign travel (as well as those of more limited means who live near borders - I can be in Canada in 5 minutes), it encourages making purchases in other countries to avoid US taxation.

Meanwhile, people living paycheck to paycheck see an immediate 20% jump in their cost of living with no accompanying tax cut or pay raise, and we have more people who can't afford to put food on the table or shoes on their kids' feet. The highest effective tax rates are paid by the poorest families, and you discourage the middle classes from consuming, which has the effect of increasing savings rates but also of slowing economic recovery/growth and costing jobs at the low-wage, frivolous-spending establishments that employ most of the working poor.

A flat income tax is the way to go, but it has to be truly flat with an end to the social/economic engineering of special rates for certain income sources and deductions for "preferred" economic behaviours.

 

[luvsJack]

i see no difference from welfare, public housing aid to dep children food stamps and then telling people they have to go pick up trash to get this any different then being a slave its not even min wage really. and to point that out is wrong but the idea of making people do that isnt wrong????

to me the only difference is the horses and whips

have u lived in public housing where people pee in the hallways

So what is it you are wanting to do? You don't want anyone to get government assistance but when it is suggested that they have to work for it you say its the same as salvery? So starving them is better? I would NEVER suggest that a person be treated as a slave. And the rate of pay would be dependent upon the number of hours a person was expected to work each day or week. And besides, I said that it would be for folks that have had training but haven't found a permanant job (I'm not sure I even said anything about picking up trash) so perhaps the work could be giving them experience in thier field and would help in the job hunt.

No I have not lived in public housing. I was fortunate enough that I was able to live in a ancient teeny tiny trailer that was cold in the winter and hot in the summer. But, not public housing. If people are peeing in the hallways, I assume you are talking about an apartment building. The public housing here is apartments but there are no hallways, they all open to the outside. But, either way I cannot imagine a life where that is all someone aspires to. I feel strongly that many people there either don't know how to get out or think they can't.