Tax return is nearly $3000 LESS because I worked part-time last year!

[luvsJack]

Maybe she is going to use that laptop to better her situation by going to college online at night while her children are asleep or making extra money with a second work-at-home job? That way she won't have to be a "min wage workers single mom that half live off the system" with your hard-earned money anymore.

Hey! That's what I am doing! Well, its not to get me off minimum wage but on to the career I have always wanted. But, anyway, I bought a lap top with refund money last year.

But there are plenty of our students that will do this very thing and they ARE trying to get a career that will make more than minimum wage.

 

[chicagodisneyfan]

I disagree, don't see any programs that are wasting the American tax dollars like the welfare and other entitlement programs.. where in the US Constitution is the idea of welfare mentioned?

I think it falls under the "form a more perfect union".

Wasting American tax dollars!! Corporate welfare and wars in the middle east suck incredible resources.

And social security was never meant to provide for 10-20 years per person. When it was started the average life expectancy was like 68/69 years old. Raise the age limits to 75.

 

[sam_gordon]

I disagree, don't see any programs that are wasting the American tax dollars like the welfare and other entitlement programs.. where in the US Constitution is the idea of welfare mentioned?

Really? Here's a website dedicated to listing government waste... http://www.cagw.org/

 

[sam_gordon]

Because people have different abilities to pay. A single person making $30k may be able to afford a $900 tax bill in April. A family of 10 living on the same likely won't be able to afford it and may have to miss rent or bills that will be hard to catch up on. They may have to get govt assistance for rent and food just so they can pay their tax bill.

No. There is no 'April Tax Bill'. The money gets deducted through the year from your paycheck like it is now. Someone making $30,000 getting paid every two weeks (26 checks) would have $115 taken out of each check.

 

[HHSTigerFan]

I think it falls under the "form a more perfect union".

Wasting American tax dollars!! Corporate welfare and wars in the middle east suck incredible resources.

And social security was never meant to provide for 10-20 years per person. When it was started the average life expectancy was like 68/69 years old. Raise the age limits to 75.

I would rather bailout a company like GM, thats been a pillar of this country for 100 years and will be for the next 100 years, creating thousands upon thousands of jobs, than the welfare garbage we see, which is teaching people to live off the taxpayer..

Some think the war on terrorism is important, not a huge fan of the war, but at least I feel my tax dollars are being spent on something that benefits me..

 

[luvsJack]

You know what's shocking? I used the H&R Block tax refund estimator, and typed in the starting salary for speech language pathologists in Oregon schools. According to the calculator, I'll qualify for $1100 in EIC even after I have my Masters.

That is really sad. And something that some posters here cannot seem to understand (even when they have been told a half a dozen times and still ignore), not everyone who qualifies for EIC is "unproductive", many are pretty darn necessary!

I think I made it pretty clear, churches and charities become more involved.. stop taxing us to death and let the free market system do what its designed to do, create jobs and less people will be needing welfare..

Let's take this one more time--if the churches and charities are overloaded NOW how on earth do you think they will "become more involved". Churches don't really get pennies from heaven, you know, they get it from their memebers. Most do not force anyone to tithe. You are not answering, only repeating.

Based on past elections it appears that about half the people in this country have a view that the govt should help people that can't take care of themselves.. If those people start giving the same amount to their church/charity as what we could reduce taxes by thats 50% of the welfare needed right there.. Toss in the amount of money the fed govt could save by not needing so many employees running these programs and that the churches/charities are going to do a much better jobs of singling out the people cheating the system, and its now pretty close to a wash..

Does that all look good?

Not really. If you make people give to churches and charities, you are right back where you started. If you do not make them, they won't all give (too many thinking, "somebody else will do it".) and there won't be enough.

Besides, churches and charities do not have the man power to double check and make sure people are really in need (which is the biggest complaint on welfare right, people taking advantage?), so again, right back where we started.

Actually you just made us worse off because you put hundreds more out of work.

Actually no. First, if you cut people's taxes, that money won't go to charity. Second, the money government saves by not needing employees to run the welfare programs will go to other government spending... it won't go to charities. AND you've just put how many more people out of work?

Yes, government spending is out of control. Couldn't agree with you more.
Yes, there are people who abuse the 'system'. Couldn't agree with you more.

But government spending has bigger problems than welfare abusers. Yes, there needs to be a way to cut down on abuse. But (as mentioned earlier), that's going to cost even MORE money.

ITA.

So we should just throw the document away? Or just pick and choose when we follow it based on political beliefs and what will get people elected?

No, but we really should quit looking at it for all the answers. Its a wonderful document but all the answers are not in there.

 

[HHSTigerFan]

Really? Here's a website dedicated to listing government waste... http://www.cagw.org/

Earmarks get a lot of attention in the media..According to that website, earmarks will total $16B this year, EIC will cost taxpayers $48B...

 

[HHSTigerFan]

Let's take this one more time--if the churches and charities are overloaded NOW how on earth do you think they will "become more involved". Churches don't really get pennies from heaven, you know, they get it from their memebers. Most do not force anyone to tithe. You are not answering, only repeating.

And the US govt is also overloaded, but that is ok???

Simply tell the US people that the federal govt is getting out of the welfare business, that will be shifted to a non-profit organization that will accept tax deductible contributions, most employers will allow people to have payroll deductions to that group equal to the amount that your withholding taxes will decrease by..

 

[sam_gordon]

How about if we toss in the 50% of US households that pay ZERO income tax?? How close does that have us to not having that $14T number staring at us?

And again, let's do away with deductions and credits for EVERYONE. THAT'S why this is happening. A family of four making $50,000 gets $11,400 using the 'standard deduction'. Four personal exemptions means their AGI is $24K. That means they owe $2769 in taxes (5.5% of their actual income). Throw in $1K each for two kids + $800 Making Work Pay and they get all their money back plus some.

I've proposed it before... no deductions, no credits. You pay taxes based strictly on your income. Yes, it needs to be progressive. Sorry. Those who make more money have more disposable income.

The government saves money because you no longer need the IRS (or at least not at the size it is now).
The government gets money because a family making less than $50K is now putting INTO the budget.

You can still have food stamps/WIC based on the number of kids and income, but there needs to be a limit on what you can use that money for.

Again, I challenge everyone to take their 'tax owed' divided by their 'gross' income and see how close I come in MY progressive scale...

$10K-$20K 1%
$20K-$30K 2%
$30K-$40K 3%
$40K-$50K 4%
...
$250K+ 25%

I'll tell you right now I fit right in. So does the 'sample' family I included in this post.

 

[HHSTigerFan]

No, but we really should quit looking at it for all the answers. Its a wonderful document but all the answers are not in there.

And I think people need to stop looking at Washington for all the answers, look under their own roof instead..

I am of the opinion that the document you speak of is the reason this country is the greatest power this world has ever seen..

 

[sam_gordon]

Simply tell the US people that the federal govt is getting out of the welfare business, that will be shifted to a non-profit organization that will accept tax deductible contributions, most employers will allow people to have payroll deductions to that group equal to the amount that your withholding taxes will decrease by..

You still haven't answered what happens when people DON'T GIVE TO THE NONPROFITS. I guess folks relying on the nonprofits for food & shelter just go hungry and live under a freeway?

 

[HHSTigerFan]

And again, let's do away with deductions and credits for EVERYONE. THAT'S why this is happening. A family of four making $50,000 gets $11,400 using the 'standard deduction'. Four personal exemptions means their AGI is $24K. That means they owe $2769 in taxes (5.5% of their actual income). Throw in $1K each for two kids + $800 Making Work Pay and they get all their money back plus some.

I've proposed it before... no deductions, no credits. You pay taxes based strictly on your income. Yes, it needs to be progressive. Sorry. Those who make more money have more disposable income.

The government saves money because you no longer need the IRS (or at least not at the size it is now).
The government gets money because a family making less than $50K is now putting INTO the budget.

You can still have food stamps/WIC based on the number of kids and income, but there needs to be a limit on what you can use that money for.

Again, I challenge everyone to take their 'tax owed' divided by their 'gross' income and see how close I come in MY progressive scale...

$10K-$20K 1%
$20K-$30K 2%
$30K-$40K 3%
$40K-$50K 4%
...
$250K+ 25%

I'll tell you right now I fit right in. So does the 'sample' family I included in this post.

I would make the 1% bracket for those earning $0-$20K, if it gets EVERYONE paying into the system, I am all for it...

 

[HHSTigerFan]

You still haven't answered what happens when people DON'T GIVE TO THE NONPROFITS. I guess folks relying on the nonprofits for food & shelter just go hungry and live under a freeway?

Its called marketing the program, get corporate America involved, get people making weekly contributions thru non-profits instead of forced taxation..

 

[ohlas]

Hey! That's what I am doing! Well, its not to get me off minimum wage but on to the career I have always wanted. But, anyway, I bought a lap top with refund money last year.

But there are plenty of our students that will do this very thing and they ARE trying to get a career that will make more than minimum wage.

no she wants a laptop so she can talk to baby daddy who is going back to jail again for stealing checks. her mom watches her daughter, we the people pay for her apartment, food, and medical care.. oh and the laptop. I really dont mind paying for her apartment or her food that much, but a laptop is a want. she has no plans to get off the welfare train.

 

[Muushka]

You still haven't answered what happens when people DON'T GIVE TO THE NONPROFITS. I guess folks relying on the nonprofits for food & shelter just go hungry and live under a freeway?

That is part of the problem. There is a portion of our population that never donates any money. There are people who are in office right now who are wealthy and donated very little to charity. I would hope that if their taxes came down, they would be more likely to donate. But then again, maybe not. But having the government run welfare programs is an extremely inefficient way of doing it.

Also, as an aside. One benefit of choosing your own charity over blindly handing over tens of thousands of dollars to the government to dole it out is that if you see a charity that is not doing things right, you stop giving.

Its called marketing the program, get corporate America involved, get people making weekly contributions thru non-profits instead of forced taxation..

Good suggestions.

 

[luvsJack]

And I think people need to stop looking at Washington for all the answers, look under their own roof instead..

I am of the opinion that the document you speak of is the reason this country is the greatest power this world has ever seen..

All the people, but not GM, right? And I think highly of the document, too.

If they are not able to get a job making enough money to live on; what then?

I am all for getting people off the welfare rolls, but it will take training and education. Actually there is more and more being done toward that. We have several short term programs that are meant to help people get a better job. They are short term and federal financial aid will not pay for them but there is another program that will. One of two things needs to happen, either Pell needs to start paying for these programs (no loans) or more money put into the other program. And with more money, more educational programs. (who knows, maybe this money could come from the billions poured into school athletic programs every year )

I also think the vo-tech programs need to be increased in the high schools. Most are starting to have LPN programs and business programs, but brick laying, car mechanics, large equipment operators are all programs that could be taught to high school students not on the college track.

With easy access to education and training, more people will be able to support their families. Add to that, put DHS and WIN Job centers working together. Make sure that the person on welfare (if not disabled or otherwise unable to work) is actively looking for a job and doesn't turn any down.

Some without jobs can work cleaning the government offices and keeping up the grounds around those buildings, filing, keying documents or whatever they are able to do.

None of this will not stop those that take advantage, but it will certainly help those that want help and then it will be easier to weed out those that are taking advantage. Many of these folks will still qualify for some assistance and a LOT may still qualify for EIC, but they will have marketable skills and will be on the right track.

 

[rubato]

And again, let's do away with deductions and credits for EVERYONE. THAT'S why this is happening. A family of four making $50,000 gets $11,400 using the 'standard deduction'. Four personal exemptions means their AGI is $24K. That means they owe $2769 in taxes (5.5% of their actual income). Throw in $1K each for two kids + $800 Making Work Pay and they get all their money back plus some.

I've proposed it before... no deductions, no credits. You pay taxes based strictly on your income. Yes, it needs to be progressive. Sorry. Those who make more money have more disposable income.

The government saves money because you no longer need the IRS (or at least not at the size it is now).
The government gets money because a family making less than $50K is now putting INTO the budget.

You can still have food stamps/WIC based on the number of kids and income, but there needs to be a limit on what you can use that money for.

Again, I challenge everyone to take their 'tax owed' divided by their 'gross' income and see how close I come in MY progressive scale...

$10K-$20K 1%
$20K-$30K 2%
$30K-$40K 3%
$40K-$50K 4%
...
$250K+ 25%

I'll tell you right now I fit right in. So does the 'sample' family I included in this post.

I would happily vote for this plan. Hubby and I have been touting a flat tax with no deductions for years.

 

[HHSTigerFan]

All the people, but not GM, right? And I think highly of the document, too.

Are we really going to compare GM, a company that some say is responsible for 1 million US jobs, to a crack addict? Right now, that $50B investment into GM looks like one of the better, maybe THE best, moves by the Obama administration..

 

[luvsJack]

Its called marketing the program, get corporate America involved, get people making weekly contributions thru non-profits instead of forced taxation..

Sounds great, but they still have the choice not to give. Not everyone is going to and we will be back at square one.

 

[My2BabiesLexis&Dill]

no she wants a laptop so she can talk to baby daddy who is going back to jail again for stealing checks. her mom watches her daughter, we the people pay for her apartment, food, and medical care.. oh and the laptop. I really dont mind paying for her apartment or her food that much, but a laptop is a want. she has no plans to get off the welfare train.