DIS Dads Talk DVC with the Dis Dads

[stopher1]

Just getting caught up on this thread guys, but wanted to chime in and let everyone know that they lowered the minimum buy in to 100 points. Not sure when they did that exactly, but it was that way back in July when I bought in.

Just an fyi.

They do have lowered minimums for AKV, SSR & BLT, but it is not across the board - but it is not consistent either, and they've been doing that for the past few years. They have been known to move it up and down, almost at a whim - kind of a promotional boost from time to time to reach various sales goals. Aulani is still 160 minimum. All of the "sold out" resorts are still a 160 minimum, which are still available, they just don't advertise that fact since the guides make higher commissions on the "newer, shinier" resorts. If pushed hard enough, and they have points in inventory, they'll sell any resort in the DVC collection. And they often have most resorts in inventory to sell - with the exception of BCV & VGC - though thanks to ROFR, they get those too - you just have to be on a wait list for a while. (I have friends on the inside, who share all kinds of tidbits with me).

 

[AirGoofy]

The 2013 charts are out. It looks like my travel time period did not change. Good news. I still want more points.

 

[IamTrike]

Hopefully this hasn't been asked before. Is the earlier booking period just based on the fact that you are an owner at that property or is it dependant on having points available left on your contract for that resort for that time period. Basically If we buy 100 points at BLT and 100 at SSR. During any given year would we be able to use all the points at BLT for 2 different vacations and take advantage of booking both of them 11 months out?

Question #2 based on my discussion with DVC it looks like right now I could get 100 Points for about 14K at BLT (AKV is a couple K less). They would also give me 2011s points so I'd start year 1 with 200 points. Looking at the TimeShare store it seems like I could buy a 160 Point contract for about the same amount. Which would you do? I know that I can't use the points bought through TSS for things other than the resorts. I don't think that we'd want to do that. Can you use the TSS points at HH or Vero?

 

[AirGoofy]

Hopefully this hasn't been asked before. Is the earlier booking period just based on the fact that you are an owner at that property or is it dependant on having points available left on your contract for that resort for that time period. Basically If we buy 100 points at BLT and 100 at SSR. During any given year would we be able to use all the points at BLT for 2 different vacations and take advantage of booking both of them 11 months out?

Question #2 based on my discussion with DVC it looks like right now I could get 100 Points for about 14K at BLT (AKV is a couple K less). They would also give me 2011s points so I'd start year 1 with 200 points. Looking at the TimeShare store it seems like I could buy a 160 Point contract for about the same amount. Which would you do? I know that I can't use the points bought through TSS for things other than the resorts. I don't think that we'd want to do that. Can you use the TSS points at HH or Vero?

Question 1 - You can only use the 11 month window for those points. So, you can book BLT with those 100 points at the 11 months window. If you need more than 100 points for your booking, you can borrow from the next UY BLT points. You cannot use SSR points at BLT at 11 months. Or, you can book what you want at BLT with the 100 points, and at the 7 month, use the SSR points to add on to your existing reservation and hope there is still room availability. From everything I read, Lake View seems to be available later at BLT. The SV goes first and then the MK view.

Question 2 - Yes, the DVC points bought at the TSS can be used for any DVC resort, including the one at DL, Aulani, HH, and VB. I think anything can change though, but that is not predicted. As for your question about 100 vs 160, how many points do you need? It is great to have the 100+100, but if you need 160 each year, then the first year you bank 40 points and the second year, your 20 points short and have to borrow.

 

[cj9200]

Hopefully this hasn't been asked before. Is the earlier booking period just based on the fact that you are an owner at that property or is it dependant on having points available left on your contract for that resort for that time period. Basically If we buy 100 points at BLT and 100 at SSR. During any given year would we be able to use all the points at BLT for 2 different vacations and take advantage of booking both of them 11 months out?

Dependent on the points available for that resort. For instance if a BLT reservation takes 150 points, you can only book 100 points worth of days at the 11 month window. At 7 months you can use both contracts anywhere.

Question #2 based on my discussion with DVC it looks like right now I could get 100 Points for about 14K at BLT (AKV is a couple K less). They would also give me 2011s points so I'd start year 1 with 200 points. Looking at the TimeShare store it seems like I could buy a 160 Point contract for about the same amount. Which would you do? I know that I can't use the points bought through TSS for things other than the resorts. I don't think that we'd want to do that. Can you use the TSS points at HH or Vero?[/QUOTE]

Where to buy is your choice. With the exception of a couple of cruises (before they took an outrageous number of points) I have only used my points for DVC resorts. The thing I might be interested in the future is trading out with RCI or whatever company they have an agreement with. If you buy out of Disney you also have to pay for closing costs. Me, I would buy from Disney but that is only my perspective. Don't base that on your decision.

 

[IamTrike]

Question 1 - You can only use the 11 month window for those points. So, you can book BLT with those 100 points at the 11 months window. If you need more than 100 points for your booking, you can borrow from the next UY BLT points. You cannot use SSR points at BLT at 11 months. Or, you can book what you want at BLT with the 100 points, and at the 7 month, use the SSR points to add on to your existing reservation and hope there is still room availability. From everything I read, Lake View seems to be available later at BLT. The SV goes first and then the MK view.

Question 2 - Yes, the DVC points bought at the TSS can be used for any DVC resort, including the one at DL, Aulani, HH, and VB. I think anything can change though, but that is not predicted. As for your question about 100 vs 160, how many points do you need? It is great to have the 100+100, but if you need 160 each year, then the first year you bank 40 points and the second year, your 20 points short and have to borrow.

Yeah. I really think having an extra 60 points every year would be a big deal. While I really enjoyed the cruise it seems like trading points for it is a bum deal. I'd rather pay for the cruises out of pocket and then use the points at Disney.

Dependent on the points available for that resort. For instance if a BLT reservation takes 150 points, you can only book 100 points worth of days at the 11 month window. At 7 months you can use both contracts anywhere.

Question #2 based on my discussion with DVC it looks like right now I could get 100 Points for about 14K at BLT (AKV is a couple K less). They would also give me 2011s points so I'd start year 1 with 200 points. Looking at the TimeShare store it seems like I could buy a 160 Point contract for about the same amount. Which would you do? I know that I can't use the points bought through TSS for things other than the resorts. I don't think that we'd want to do that. Can you use the TSS points at HH or Vero?

Where to buy is your choice. With the exception of a couple of cruises (before they took an outrageous number of points) I have only used my points for DVC resorts. The thing I might be interested in the future is trading out with RCI or whatever company they have an agreement with. If you buy out of Disney you also have to pay for closing costs. Me, I would buy from Disney but that is only my perspective. Don't base that on your decision.[/QUOTE]
My inclination is to buy from Disney too, but right now it seems like there is about a 50% premium for that. It's steep enough that I am second guessing my decisions. I'll probably ask our DVC consultant if they offer better discounts on larger contracts.

Can you trade the points bought through TSS for RCI points?

Does anyone have a rough idea how many points you need for an adventure's by Disney trip?

 

[lnevo]

The only thing you can not use your resale points on is the "Disney Collection".

This includes: Non-DVC resorts (i.e. Polynesian or Coronado Springs, etc., Disneyland Paris, Hong Kong, etc.), Adventures by Disney, and Disney Cruise Line

This is not seen as a negative by most people on the boards as they are not a great value for your points. You'd get more to rent your points out and use the cash toward a regular reservation. You can still trade out to RCI. So far this has not been a restriction (although the DVC marketing material includes RCI when they mention the benefits of buying direct)

I'm with CJ though, I prefer to buy direct from Disney. I do it for the ease of financing, the flexibility of getting what I want, when I want it, etc. 60 points though is hard to pass up. Make sure though that you are not getting a stripped contract (meaning it has at least the 2012 (maybe even some banked 2011 points) and all 2013 (i.e. nothing borrowed). When I was browsing, there were some contracts that you couldn't do much with until 2013 or 2014.

 

[stopher1]

Yeah. I really think having an extra 60 points every year would be a big deal. While I really enjoyed the cruise it seems like trading points for it is a bum deal. I'd rather pay for the cruises out of pocket and then use the points at Disney.




My inclination is to buy from Disney too, but right now it seems like there is about a 50% premium for that. It's steep enough that I am second guessing my decisions. I'll probably ask our DVC consultant if they offer better discounts on larger contracts.

They really don't do much more the more you buy. The incentives/offers are the pretty much the same, though they might take an extra couple off the more you buy. A great resource for checking out pricing with DVC is dvcnews.com.

Here's what I mean regarding they don't do much based on what you buy - this comes straight from DVCnews.

$120 base price less $8 promotional discount; 100-159 points
$120 base price less $10 promotional discount; 160-219 points
$120 base price less $12 promotional discount; 220-319 points
$120 base price less $14 promotional discount; 320 points


Guides are not like other types of sales people either - they do not have wiggle room or are they able to negotiate. It just doesn't happen. They ONLY time that it might happen, is when you are willing to buy multiple resorts, and you're talking breaking contracts down into lesser amounts than the preset minimums. But negotiating on price simply doesn't happen.

Can you trade the points bought through TSS for RCI points?

Yes.

I don't know if this was mentioned recently or not - but as of March 20, 2011, any points purchased from any venue outside of Disney are eligible to be used for anything EXCEPT for the Disney Collection - meaning, resale points cannot be used for stays at any of the Disney destinations that are not DVC resorts - i.e. Disneyland Hotel / Paradise Pier Hotel, Disneyland Paris, Tokyo Disneyland, Hong Kong Disneyland, the WDW non-DVC resorts, Disney Cruise Line, Adventures by Disney. You CAN still use them for RCI and the other trades.

Does anyone have a rough idea how many points you need for an adventure's by Disney trip?

WAAAAAAYYY too many.

Here's an example. This is per person, btw.

8D/7N England & France itinerary: 731 adult / 696 child
8D/7N Ireland itinerary: 586 adult / 557 child
12D/11N China itinerary: 917 adult / 873 child

It really isn't worth it to even try to use points for an ABD excursion.

 

[lnevo]

Does anyone have a rough idea how many points you need for an adventure's by Disney trip?

They range from 300-1000 points *per* person. My long term goal is to have enough points when I retire that my wife and I can go on one of these every other year or so.

Here's some samples, the first column is for Adults, second is for children.

ALASKA: Taming the Last Frontier 8 Days / 7 Nights 571 543
AMERICAN SOUTHWEST: Southwest Splendors 8 Days / 7 Nights 447 426
CALIFORNIA: Backstage Magic 6 Days / 5 Nights 368 350
CANADA: Roaming the Rockies 7 Days / 6 Nights 486 463
MID-ATLANTIC: Spirit of America 8 Days / 7 Nights 426 406
WYOMING: Quest for the West 7 Days / 6 Nights 443 421

THE ALPS: Alpine Magic 8 Days / 7 Nights 626 594
ENGLAND & FRANCE: Cities of Knights & Lights 8 Days / 7 Nights 731 696
FRANCE: Esprit de France 8 Days / 7 Nights 707 673
GERMANY: Once Upon a Fairytale 9 Days / 8 Nights 543 516
GREECE: Greek Odyssey 10 Days / 9 Nights 687 653
IRELAND: The Emerald Isle 8 Days / 7 Nights 586 557
CENTRAL ITALY: Bella Italia 8 Days / 7 Nights 591 561
ITALY: Viva Italia 9 Days / 8 Nights 661 630
ITALY: Viva Italia Signature 9 Days / 8 Nights 926 880

 

[AirGoofy]

Yeah. I really think having an extra 60 points every year would be a big deal. While I really enjoyed the cruise it seems like trading points for it is a bum deal. I'd rather pay for the cruises out of pocket and then use the points at Disney.

My inclination is to buy from Disney too, but right now it seems like there is about a 50% premium for that. It's steep enough that I am second guessing my decisions. I'll probably ask our DVC consultant if they offer better discounts on larger contracts.

Can you trade the points bought through TSS for RCI points?

Does anyone have a rough idea how many points you need for an adventure's by Disney trip?

I don't know about RCI and when I looked in the book for the adventure's collection, I quickly stopped. I don't have enough points for that. We bought our first contract through TSS and had a great experience. They offer financing thru an outside bank with a lower interest rate than Disney and will send you all the paperwork.

We bought a 2nd contract thru Disney. I had more points (at SSR) for cheaper thru resale, but I wanted a BLT contract with same UY, so we went thru Disney. Disney also offers financing and sends all the paperwork.

Both mail everything to you, telling you where to sign, and all you really need is a notary and photocopy ID. We did the financing, but then realized it was a bad deal so I just paid it off outright.

Also, while it is not an exact figure, expect another $500 a year in dues for every 100 points you own. There is an exact point breakdown if you want to try and add it up. I think that if you need a 1 BR or above, DVC is the way to go. If you go studios, then I think it is a break even with a moderate resort after you add in tickets and dues. But, when you stay at BLT, BWV, or BC you have a short walk to the theme park and a short boat ride to DHS or WVL. You can walk to DHS from BWV or BCV, but it is further. Also, the 1 BR and above have an extra bathroom at BLT and AKV.

We have one more debt to pay off (minus the house) before buying another contract.

 

[IamTrike]

They really don't do much more the more you buy. The incentives/offers are the pretty much the same, though they might take an extra couple off the more you buy. A great resource for checking out pricing with DVC is dvcnews.com.

Yeah I asked that question prematurely. The information they sent me included pricing PP at every level for SSR,VGC,BLT and AKV. It varied a little bit from what you sent. SSR is cheaper 99 PP and AKV is 120 PP and BLT is 150 PP. for 100-150 points after that they all dip.

Guides are not like other types of sales people either - they do not have wiggle room or are they able to negotiate. It just doesn't happen. They ONLY time that it might happen, is when you are willing to buy multiple resorts, and you're talking breaking contracts down into lesser amounts than the preset minimums. But negotiating on price simply doesn't happen.

I was thinking more along the line of volume discounts. It looks like I have to be buying at least 160 points for that to kick in though.

WAAAAAAYYY too many.

Here's an example. This is per person, btw.

8D/7N England & France itinerary: 731 adult / 696 child
8D/7N Ireland itinerary: 586 adult / 557 child
12D/11N China itinerary: 917 adult / 873 child

It really isn't worth it to even try to use points for an ABD excursion.

I was thinking I had heard that they were expensive. Ability to book ABD with our points was a reason DW wanted to buy from Disney. I doubt we would ever do that. I travel internationally for work so if were gonna do one of those trips the family would probably just tag along with me and then we'd extend our stay somewhere.

I don't know about RCI and when I looked in the book for the adventure's collection, I quickly stopped. I don't have enough points for that. We bought our first contract through TSS and had a great experience. They offer financing thru an outside bank with a lower interest rate than Disney and will send you all the paperwork.

We bought a 2nd contract thru Disney. I had more points (at SSR) for cheaper thru resale, but I wanted a BLT contract with same UY, so we went thru Disney. Disney also offers financing and sends all the paperwork.

I looked at Disney's but 11% financing seems really high. If we can't pay cash for it, it's not going to happen. So Disney as a financier of it is not really incentive for me to buy from them.

Also, while it is not an exact figure, expect another $500 a year in dues for every 100 points you own. There is an exact point breakdown if you want to try and add it up. I think that if you need a 1 BR or above, DVC is the way to go. If you go studios, then I think it is a break even with a moderate resort after you add in tickets and dues. But, when you stay at BLT, BWV, or BC you have a short walk to the theme park and a short boat ride to DHS or WVL. You can walk to DHS from BWV or BCV, but it is further. Also, the 1 BR and above have an extra bathroom at BLT and AKV.

The idea of a one bedroom is REALLY appealing. Especially as the kids get older, it would be really nice to have a separate bedroom. All the price comparisons we are doing are based on comparing a studio to a deluxe. We've been fortunate in that there has been fairly major discounts every time we've been for the past couple of years. It makes running the numbers more complex. If I compare rack rates to DVC the payoff is fairly rapid. If I compare current rack rates but apply conservative versions of the discounts we have gotten in the past, the payoff takes longer.

Even still it basically boils down to " If we are going to go to Disney more than 7 times in the next 40 years" this makes sense. Between kids and grandkids I'm pretty sure that's going to happen.

Thanks for all your advice everyone.

 

[IamTrike]

They range from 300-1000 points *per* person. My long term goal is to have enough points when I retire that my wife and I can go on one of these every other year or so.

Here's some samples, the first column is for Adults, second is for children.

ALASKA: Taming the Last Frontier 8 Days / 7 Nights 571 543
AMERICAN SOUTHWEST: Southwest Splendors 8 Days / 7 Nights 447 426
CALIFORNIA: Backstage Magic 6 Days / 5 Nights 368 350
CANADA: Roaming the Rockies 7 Days / 6 Nights 486 463
MID-ATLANTIC: Spirit of America 8 Days / 7 Nights 426 406
WYOMING: Quest for the West 7 Days / 6 Nights 443 421

THE ALPS: Alpine Magic 8 Days / 7 Nights 626 594
ENGLAND & FRANCE: Cities of Knights & Lights 8 Days / 7 Nights 731 696
FRANCE: Esprit de France 8 Days / 7 Nights 707 673
GERMANY: Once Upon a Fairytale 9 Days / 8 Nights 543 516
GREECE: Greek Odyssey 10 Days / 9 Nights 687 653
IRELAND: The Emerald Isle 8 Days / 7 Nights 586 557
CENTRAL ITALY: Bella Italia 8 Days / 7 Nights 591 561
ITALY: Viva Italia 9 Days / 8 Nights 661 630
ITALY: Viva Italia Signature 9 Days / 8 Nights 926 880

Okay those prices crazy high. Points seem to go for about $10-14 on the resale market. That means some of these trips are like $7k per person. That'd be awesome if you can swing it. I don't know that we'll be able to afford it ever around this house.

 

[AirGoofy]

Even still it basically boils down to " If we are going to go to Disney more than 7 times in the next 40 years" this makes sense. Between kids and grandkids I'm pretty sure that's going to happen.

Thanks for all your advice everyone.

Good luck. We are glad we did it. Even though we went the financing route, we did pay it off a few months later. I'm not sure what I was thinking by doing that.

Another thing you can consider is purchasing a smaller contract resale, and then once you are a DVC member, you can purchase add on contracts thru Disney 25 points at a time, but you wouldn't get the discounted rate. Also, all your Use Years would be the same then.

 

[stopher1]

Yeah I asked that question prematurely. The information they sent me included pricing PP at every level for SSR,VGC,BLT and AKV. It varied a little bit from what you sent. SSR is cheaper 99 PP and AKV is 120 PP and BLT is 150 PP. for 100-150 points after that they all dip.

I can't remember right now if it was in an email from my guide or somewhere else, but SSR is slated to go up in the next few weeks as well - I think early February. Granted it's still a lot less than the others, but I think it was headed up to $105 or 110 pp.

AKV is supposedly going up to 125 as well. When I first bought AKV, it was 92 pp. You can find a lot of resale contracts for much less than buying direct from Disney.

I was thinking more along the line of volume discounts. It looks like I have to be buying at least 160 points for that to kick in though.

That's kind of what I was trying to demonstrate by that chart - the price dips a little bit when you buy more points. But negotiation is never a part of the equation. The price is the price, but depending on how many you buy you might get a little discount. But the way they administer the discount has changed through the years as well. DVC is a constantly changing organization when it comes to their sales tactics. If sales are slow, they might drop announce a price point drop, as they did a couple of times last year with SSR... but conversely, if they want to push one inventory over another, they might raise the price in order slow sales at a specific resort - again at SSR last year - at one point they raised the price up to $120, only to drop it again to $105, and then down to $99. They did that with OKW as well. I also got an email recently that AKV will be going up to $135. So everything fluctuates.

With the recent announcement of the Villas at the Grand Floridian they're going to try and move that inventory so that they can start that sale out well. I can only imagine what the opening price point will be.

I looked at Disney's but 11% financing seems really high. If we can't pay cash for it, it's not going to happen. So Disney as a financier of it is not really incentive for me to buy from them.

And like other things with Disney - it is what it is. They don't negotiate on their financing either. Paying cash is the best way to buy.

The idea of a one bedroom is REALLY appealing. Especially as the kids get older, it would be really nice to have a separate bedroom. All the price comparisons we are doing are based on comparing a studio to a deluxe. We've been fortunate in that there has been fairly major discounts every time we've been for the past couple of years. It makes running the numbers more complex. If I compare rack rates to DVC the payoff is fairly rapid. If I compare current rack rates but apply conservative versions of the discounts we have gotten in the past, the payoff takes longer.

We absolutely love the 1 BR's and larger. Especially having teenagers. Oh my goodness, the space is so nice. It is wonderful to have the washer & dryer, and the kitchen, and, and and....

Even still it basically boils down to " If we are going to go to Disney more than 7 times in the next 40 years" this makes sense. Between kids and grandkids I'm pretty sure that's going to happen.

Thanks for all your advice everyone.

Comparing rack rates is the only way that their marketing works - with them saying it only takes 6 or 7 vacations to break even. With all of the sales & discounts that Disney has offered in the past decade, it definitely takes longer to break even - but it will happen. And with hotel room rates going up 4 - 6% annually, it will be worth it for you to join. But more worth it if you buy resale.

 

[Cinderella's Fella]

I see that the Timeshare store has so good buys on resale points for Vero Beach. Can these be used at any DVC resort?

 

[dvczerfs]

I see that the Timeshare store has so good buys on resale points for Vero Beach. Can these be used at any DVC resort?

yes sir, vero would be your home resort meaning, you can book your room at vero as early as 11 months from your arive time.
if you want to stay at another dvc resort, okw,bw etc... you can make your resi at the 7 month window.

 

[stopher1]

I see that the Timeshare store has so good buys on resale points for Vero Beach. Can these be used at any DVC resort?

yes sir, vero would be your home resort meaning, you can book your room at vero as early as 11 months from your arive time.
if you want to stay at another dvc resort, okw,bw etc... you can make your resi at the 7 month window.

Yes, as Dave said, you can. DVC points are good at any of the (currently 11) DVC resorts... at 7 months prior to your reservation date. The resort you buy in at is your home resort, which you have the priority advantage of making reservations up to 11 months prior to your reservation date... which can be good at heavily traveled times of the year, especially good when coupled with smaller resorts. I.E. Wilderness Lodge at Christmas time, or the Treehouses any time, or Beach Club during Food & Wine, etc, etc.

While VB and HHI both are lower per point cost, they both have some of the highest maintenance fees around. And in the long run, its' not the purchase price that will be your largest spend on DVC, but those annual dues. So while you can use VB points anywhere - remember those dues, because they don't go away until you sell the contract or die, but even then they get transferred to your heirs.

 

[Cinderella's Fella]

Thanks Dave and Christopher! I didn't think about dues, will add that into any decisions we make.

 

[AirGoofy]

I see that the Timeshare store has so good buys on resale points for Vero Beach. Can these be used at any DVC resort?

Vero Beach has a great resort as only 90 minutes away (?) from WDW. Dave and Christopher talked about the dues and buy in. The other thing I would add is that technically, Disney could say that you can only stay at your home resort. Now, I don't think that would ever happen, but reservation system changes, point charts change, new resorts are added, etc. So, for me, it is buy the resort where you want to stay every year if you had to.

 

[stopher1]

Vero Beach has a great resort as only 90 minutes away (?) from WDW. Dave and Christopher talked about the dues and buy in. The other thing I would add is that technically, Disney could say that you can only stay at your home resort. Now, I don't think that would ever happen, but reservation system changes, point charts change, new resorts are added, etc. So, for me, it is buy the resort where you want to stay every year if you had to.

This is a very good point to add Norm - and part of the reason that we diversified our portfolio of points. While it hasn't happened in the past 20 years... no one knows what might happen in the next 20 or 40 years. It is entirely Disney's option to put into place.