Taking a break from trying, how about you?

[rpmdfw]

Maybe THAT is why I've left the church and questioned the whole organized religon thing?

Ah, yes! The worst sin there is: Thinking for yourself.

 

[John_RN]

I couldn't say it any better than Rember Truluck in "The Six Passages Used to Condemn Homosexuals" :

Author's Note: Both of these verses refer not to homosexuals but to heterosexuals who took part in the baal fertility rituals in order to guarantee good crops and healthy flocks. No hint at sexual orientation or homosexuality is even implied. The word abomination in Leviticus was used for anything that was considered to be religiously unclean or associated with idol worship.

Because these two verses in Leviticus (18:22 and 20:13) have been used more than any other Bible texts to condemn and reject gay and lesbian people, the following material is given to help you think objectively about traditional abusive use of the Bible regarding homosexuals.

The use of Leviticus to condemn and reject homosexuals is obviously a hypocritical selective use of the Bible against gays and lesbians. Nobody today tries to keep the laws in Leviticus. Look at Leviticus 11:1-12, where all unclean animals are forbidden as food, including rabbits, pigs, and shellfish, such as oysters, shrimp, lobsters, crabs, clams, and others that are called an "abomination." Leviticus 20:25 demands that "you are to make a distinction between the clean and unclean animal and between the unclean and clean bird; and you shall not make yourself an abomination by animal or by bird or by anything that creeps on the ground, which I have separated for you as unclean." You can eat some insects like locusts (grasshoppers), but not others.

Leviticus 12:1-8 declares that a woman is unclean for 33 days after giving birth to a boy and for 66 days after giving birth to a girl and goes on to demand that certain animals must be offered as a burnt offering and a sin offering for cleansing. Nobody today who claims to be a Christian tries to keep these laws, and few people even know about them! Why do you think that most people don't know about them?

Read Leviticus 23 to see the detailed regulations concerning "complete rest" on the Sabbath day and demands of animal sacrifices to be carried out according to exact instructions. Leviticus 18:19 forbids a husband from having sex with his wife during her menstrual period. Leviticus 19:19 forbids mixed breeding of various kinds of cattle, sowing various kinds of seeds in your field or wearing "a garment made from two kinds of material mixed together." Leviticus 19:27 demands that "you shall not round off the side-growth of your heads, nor harm the edges of your beard." The next verse forbids "tattoo marks on yourself." Most people do not even know that these laws are in the Bible and are demanded equally with all the others.

Why don't fundamentalists organize protests and picket seafood restaurants, oyster bars, church barbecue suppers, all grocery stores, barber shops, tattoo parlors, and stores that sell suits and dresses made of mixed wool, cotton, polyester, and other materials? All of these products and services are "abominations" in Leviticus. When have you heard a preacher condemn the demonic abomination of garments that are made of mixed fabrics?

 

[John_RN]

Who's with me when I go and protest outside Red Lobster???

 

[f86sabjf]

I SO love this post. I too work for a hospital, but I'm very fortunate, they offer Domestic Partnership ins. Luckily DP has a great Fed job and has her own ins. But I agree, if someone's ONLY arguement is that the bible says so...there are SO many comebacks. As an ex- evangelists' wife, I KNOW the bible and KNOW how full of ******** laws it has in it. Law NOBODY follows anymore. My arguement to them is, "How do YOU get to decide which of these laws you abide by and which ones you overlook?" Seems very hypocritical to me. Maybe THAT is why I've left the church and questioned the whole organized religon thing?

Nice to know i'm not alone in this style of thinking

 

[OrlandoMike]

Who's with me when I go and protest outside Red Lobster???

You can count me in......just for serving that crap food and trying to pass it off as good!

It makes me laugh....ask anyone what they like about Red Lobster, and the first thing they mention is "cheesy biscuits"!

 

[rpmdfw]

It makes me laugh....ask anyone what they like about Red Lobster, and the first thing they mention is "cheesy biscuits"!

And you can buy the Bisquick mix for those biscuits at any grocery store!

 

[OrlandoMike]

And you can buy the Bisquick mix for those biscuits at any grocery store!

Ya, but getting your house to smell like three week old oil used to fry fish.....not quite as easy!

 

[rpmdfw]

Ya, but getting your house to smell like three week old oil used to fry fish.....not quite as easy!

While we're on the subject of cheese biscuits. Scott and I had dinner at the Ravenous Pig gastropub on Friday night. Their gruyere biscuit are TO. DIE. FOR!

We loved them so much we got two orders to go and had them with apple butter for breakfast on Saturday.

 

[hematite153]

Thanks for the open debate without showing hate. I respect Christians who can act like this. Unfortunately for me I've had trouble finding alot of them. I feel there may be a changing in the church over the next decade or so for the better. I gues all we can all do is keep praying.

This is the problem that causes my DW to argue that the rest of us need to evangelize more. The Christian church overall (worldwide) isn't properly represented by the people who speak the loudest.

I think that she is right and I that need to speak more loudly about my faith. Except one of the problems is that a part of my faith is that my faith is personal and that it is important to let everyone find the divine in their own way. So, if I evangelize, I'm not being true to my beliefs. But, if I don't, then, people are allowed to believe that the idiots who shout and protest actually represent Christianity. It's hard to find the right balance.

 

[f86sabjf]

I definitely agree with you on finding the balance. Very hard thing to do.

 

[teskak]

Well people, coming back to the topic of gay marriage - have a look at some of the media coming from Australia at the moment (I am aussie BTW).

3 major political parties; Labor, which is run by a woman who shockingly is not married to her (male) SO
Conservative - run by a man who had trained for the priesthood and guards his daughters' v..... and gave up sex for lent
Green - run by a gay man who has a 20+ year life partner.

We had an election and the Labor & Conservative parties are deadlocked, and will need to cut a deal with the Greens to get anything through the upper house. One of the Green policies is gay marriage, and that has been put on the table as a condition for Green support.

Now, Australia in the cities is fairly relaxed about same sex relationships, and most health, insurance, tax and social security laws have been redrafted to mean there is no difference in what is a couple, and Australia did make Priscilla Queen of the Desert.

So we will wait & see, and maybe gay marriage will become legal in Australia in the next 3 years.

 

[hematite153]

Now, Australia in the cities is fairly relaxed about same sex relationships, and most health, insurance, tax and social security laws have been redrafted to mean there is no difference in what is a couple, and Australia did make Priscilla Queen of the Desert.

So we will wait & see, and maybe gay marriage will become legal in Australia in the next 3 years.

My experience of Australia was fairly mixed -- some people seemed very progressive and some seemed offensively (to me) homophobic. I was living in Adelaide -- how does it compare to the rest of the country?

I'll hope that the Green Party succeeds in their quest.

 

[teskak]

Adelaide is called the City of Churches - 'nuff said

The larger cities of Sydney & Melbourne are more family friendly. Pete Werner (Disboards owner) visited Australia last year and called Sydney "the Gayest city he had been in"

In Western Australia (where i live) the city is progressive, but the country areas, especially in the mining regions are redneck central.

One of my local senators is open about having a transgender partner and there are several openly gay politicians at state & federal level.

A cabinet minister in the previous government came from Adelaide and she is openly gay and indeed copped grief for not agitating harder for more gay law reform beyond the "government & social security" equality i mentioned earlier.

The first piece of law passed by the last government was to allow judge's pensions to be paid to thier life partner on death - this was specifically put in to allow one of our High Court judges to retire as previously his pension would not have been payable to his 30+ year life partner.

And of course Australia produced Kylie!

 

[Bitsmommy]

....as a woman married to a man for 27 years...I never pass up the opportunity to support gay marriage. I'll be damned if anyone tells me that your love is less valid than mine.

Amen.. Only I have only been married for 6 years!

 

[Sphyrna]

I was in Adelaide for 6 mo during my study abroad. It was really nice but I preferred Melbourne and Sydney when we visited them.