Table Manners....

[kaytieeldr]

And you apparently didn't get it..I was told that oh no..someone who followed etiquette/had manners wouldn't tell you to your face you were crass and raised by wolves..instead they would judge you and gossip about your behind your back as has been stated/implied by others. That isn't classy at all.

All due respect, was it stated or implied, and by whom? Not by Art1, who replied directly to you. All he said was

They would just know that you didn't know any better and may not want to associate with you.

Nothing about who raised you, or how; no judging - just the alert that it's possible persons dining with you who realize you don't know proper dining etiquette may choose not to associate with you.

He implied nothing, and can't be responsible for what you inferred from what he didn't say.

 

[cornflake]

Exactly.

I was always taught if your guest did something that was incorrect, such as not putting their napkin on their lap, we were to do what they did as to not draw attention to their mistake.

Hence Queen Victoria famously drank out of her finger bowl.

 

[Ceila]

Because it is a very very petty point of etiquette and does not present a hygienic issue or result in others being unable to eat (like teeth picking or open mouth chewing). Of all things one has to worry about in life the way someone butters bread or cuts their meat really shouldn't register. It doesn't impact ones ability to consume their own meal or their appetite. Those are understandable in regards to forming feelings about dining with someone..bread and meat aren't.

So, do you set the table with the knife and spoon to the right of the plate, and the fork to the left? Most people do, and most would think it odd if someone didn't know the basic etiquette of setting the table. Is there a hygienic issue associated with placing the utensils in that way? No, of course not (at least nowadays - who knows why that tradition started). Yet it is commonly accepted manners to do so. Buttering bread a certain way and not cutting all your meat at once fall into the same category. It's just basic dining etiquette.

 

[Planogirl]

I can honestly say that I don't believe that I've ever noticed how someone eats a piece of bread. Nor do I care. I'm aware of the rule but I don't remember if others follow it or not.

I don't eat much bread myself since it serves no purpose in my world. I do like the occasional hot roll though and I think that I sometimes break it up but not always. I also don't really care if others approve of how I eat it.

Some etiquette rules are silly. You don't have to lick your fingers after you eat bread. If you get a bit of butter on your hand you can use your napkin.

 

[marmalade]

I never knew the bread/roll thing, I guess I got the short end of the etiquette stick. But because of this thread I will never be able to eat my rolls/bread the same way again.

 

[MartyM]

I hate it when certain members of my family sit down and start eating before everyone else is seated (particularly the cook!). I think it's beyond rude, and I've said so - but it doesn't seem to make a difference.

I'm always the cook, and I think that it's pretty awful to ask that anyone stare at their cooling food until someone can get themselves together to sit. In my house, everyone is expected to start on their hot plate of food when they sit down. To let my lovingly prepared dinner cool before eating it is an affront.

 

[EPCOTatNight]

The bread/butter thing is stupid. Just because somebody's great-great-grandmother said it doesn't mean that it makes sense. And the argument that it was taught to me just as it was taught to my mother and so on still doesn't mean the rule was based in common sense. Sometimes you just want to sit down and enjoy a meal and not be concerned with all the foolishness that are "table manners". Common sense is all you need. Don't burp, fart, talk with your mouth open, etc..... Not because of any "rule", but just because it's rude.

 

[kimmar067]

Your manners aren't that great if you feel the need to take shots at someone who disagrees with YOUR version of table manners. Tell me this. Who said your way is the right way and who made you or them the table manner authority?

...TMP---Table Manners Police...

 

[DeaverTex]

Talk about a tempest in a teapot!!

I've always been amused at the people who feel superior because they know the "socially approved" way to do anything, whether it's butter bread, eat fried chicken, fold a napkin, select wine, or read a newspaper. Yes, I actually DO know a lot of those rules. Some of them are so silly that I've always had a hard time taking them seriously.

A reasonable number have reasonable reasons for existing. The bread-buttering thing, for example, was a reasonable way to keep a droopy mustache or full beard from being festooned with butter. Dipping the soup away from you keeps it out of your lap. Setting the table with the knife on the right and the fork on the left makes them easier to seize for eating in the European fashion.

But so many rules of etiquette are about nothing except the warm feeling of having rules, in the Victorian way. Elbows on the table... huh? Does that serve any useful purpose other than to make sitting at the table physically uncomfortable?

Besides, manners change. Not too many years ago, the good host ALWAYS provided cigarettes and ash trays, and not doing so was a serious breach of manners. It was good manners to ask permission to smoke; it was unthinkably rude to deny that permission and not to offer a light. Now, while it's still polite to ask permission, it's also perfectly acceptable to refuse that permission. Times change. And just for the record, we're all committed non-smokers here.

You'll have to excuse me now. There are homemade biscuits for dinner and Mrs. Tex wants them all split and buttered before they get cold.

 

[Coconut36]

The bread/butter thing is stupid. Just because somebody's great-great-grandmother said it doesn't mean that it makes sense. And the argument that it was taught to me just as it was taught to my mother and so on still doesn't mean the rule was based in common sense. Sometimes you just want to sit down and enjoy a meal and not be concerned with all the foolishness that are "table manners". Common sense is all you need. Don't burp, fart, talk with your mouth open, etc..... Not because of any "rule", but just because it's rude.

Some things are no longer necessary or are antiquated and out of date and extremely unimportant in regards to enjoying a meal with others.

 

[Coconut36]

Talk about a tempest in a teapot!!

I've always been amused at the people who feel superior because they know the "socially approved" way to do anything, whether it's butter bread, eat fried chicken, fold a napkin, select wine, or read a newspaper. Yes, I actually DO know a lot of those rules. Some of them are so silly that I've always had a hard time taking them seriously.

A reasonable number have reasonable reasons for existing. The bread-buttering thing, for example, was a reasonable way to keep a droopy mustache or full beard from being festooned with butter. Dipping the soup away from you keeps it out of your lap. Setting the table with the knife on the right and the fork on the left makes them easier to seize for eating in the European fashion.

But so many rules of etiquette are about nothing except the warm feeling of having rules, in the Victorian way. Elbows on the table... huh? Does that serve any useful purpose other than to make sitting at the table physically uncomfortable?

Besides, manners change. Not too many years ago, the good host ALWAYS provided cigarettes and ash trays, and not doing so was a serious breach of manners. It was good manners to ask permission to smoke; it was unthinkably rude to deny that permission and not to offer a light. Now, while it's still polite to ask permission, it's also perfectly acceptable to refuse that permission. Times change. And just for the record, we're all committed non-smokers here.

You'll have to excuse me now. There are homemade biscuits for dinner and Mrs. Tex wants them all split and buttered before they get cold.

You are awesome!

 

[joviroxx]

The bread/butter thing is stupid. Just because somebody's great-great-grandmother said it doesn't mean that it makes sense. And the argument that it was taught to me just as it was taught to my mother and so on still doesn't mean the rule was based in common sense. Sometimes you just want to sit down and enjoy a meal and not be concerned with all the foolishness that are "table manners". Common sense is all you need. Don't burp, fart, talk with your mouth open, etc..... Not because of any "rule", but just because it's rude.

Ah, but in some countries NOT burping is considered rude. So who is right?

 

[NikitaZee]

I'm always the cook, and I think that it's pretty awful to ask that anyone stare at their cooling food until someone can get themselves together to sit. In my house, everyone is expected to start on their hot plate of food when they sit down. To let my lovingly prepared dinner cool before eating it is an affront.

I am usually the cook too - and as most of my dishes are on the table no more than a minute or two before me, nothing will get cold in that time. To start digging in before all are seated will always be rude to me.

 

[kimmar067]

Talk about a tempest in a teapot!!

....last time I heard that phrase........I fell off my dinosaur........

 

[Janepod]

Well, since I started the bread brouhaha ...

OP asked for pet peeves. To me, that means a minor annoyance that bothers me and might not bother someone else. For example, I don't care about coworkers coming in late or if an adult keeps a foul ball in the vicinity of a crying kid. But the bread thing just bugs me. To me it makes the whole-piece-of-bread eater look like a big baby. (And I'm realizing I feel the same way about people who cut their entire steak or chicken breast before the first bite.) Am I going to stop eating with you? No. Am I going to gossip about you? No. Do I find it creepy and weird? Yes.

So eat however you want. No skin off my back. Though I do hope everyone makes an effort to teach their children proper etiquette. They can decide for themselves as adults whether to follow it, but at least give them the basics so they don't embarrass themselves as they grow up.

 

[punkin]

Talk about a tempest in a teapot!!

I've always been amused at the people who feel superior because they know the "socially approved" way to do anything, whether it's butter bread, eat fried chicken, fold a napkin, select wine, or read a newspaper. Yes, I actually DO know a lot of those rules. Some of them are so silly that I've always had a hard time taking them seriously.

A reasonable number have reasonable reasons for existing. The bread-buttering thing, for example, was a reasonable way to keep a droopy mustache or full beard from being festooned with butter. Dipping the soup away from you keeps it out of your lap. Setting the table with the knife on the right and the fork on the left makes them easier to seize for eating in the European fashion.

But so many rules of etiquette are about nothing except the warm feeling of having rules, in the Victorian way. Elbows on the table... huh? Does that serve any useful purpose other than to make sitting at the table physically uncomfortable?

Besides, manners change. Not too many years ago, the good host ALWAYS provided cigarettes and ash trays, and not doing so was a serious breach of manners. It was good manners to ask permission to smoke; it was unthinkably rude to deny that permission and not to offer a light. Now, while it's still polite to ask permission, it's also perfectly acceptable to refuse that permission. Times change. And just for the record, we're all committed non-smokers here.

You'll have to excuse me now. There are homemade biscuits for dinner and Mrs. Tex wants them all split and buttered before they get cold.

I agree with you on everything except: at one time ALL etiquette rules served a purpose. To use your elbows example...it was actually to make sitting at a crowded table MORE comfortable as your neighbor sawing at his slab of meat would not hit you in the rib-cage if his elbows were pointed down rather than horizontal.

As far as the nitty-gritty of etiquette is concerned, it is simply bad manners to point any of it out to someone not in your immediate family (or a child in your care). However, if something truly bothers you, there is no obligation to dine with the offending party.

 

[DVC~OKW~96]

The basic purpose of "etiquette" is to provide a setting where everyone knows what to expect and unintended offense isn't given.

So, there are 'table manners,' and wedding etiquette, and funeral etiquette, so on and so forth.

It's a very useful thing to know the etiquette (expectations) when visiting another country.

The first rule of etiquette is to not be rude, so those who would insult another person with their knowledge, or their "superiority" are not so superior after all.

Etiquette evolves as much as language does. There were once smoking rooms, and those who smoked wore smoking jackets to keep the smell off their clothing. There were once calling cards that have evolved into many people thinking that it's rude to stop by someone's home without calling first, or letting them know you would like to stop by.

There are all sorts of things today that we do, or expect others to do that have their underpinnings in etiquette based knowledge.

If you are in a business setting, or in an official state capacity, ect. etiquette isn't only a nicety, it's required.

 

[YankeePrincess]

It seems like some of these complaints border on OCD rather than table manners.

 

[declansdad]

I'm not too picky, generally, but my in laws have thououghly grossed me out at the table. Here are a few...
* eating with your fork, straight out of the serving dish. So, your dirty fork touches the food others are to eat.
* instead of napkins, MIL used to put one (sometimes dirty) dish towel on the table and call it "the community finger towel.". that is when I started bringing paper napkins and setting the table.
*super gross..... Scratching your BACK with your fork, and still using it to eat.
*double dipping
*never washing hand before the meal...even with a snotty, nose blowing cold!
*picking up food and eating it that should be fork food! Whole pieces of pie!

I will stop now.

Mythbusters proved there is nothing wrong with this but the rest of your examples are gross.

 

[izzy]

OK, now that we've discussed rolls, let's talk about biscuits. Especially hot from the oven biscuits. Am I allowed to split the biscuit open and butter it, thus allowing the butter to melt while it is hot? Am I even allowed to split the biscuit open or will I be considered infantile? Must I smear butter on a little piece of the biscuit and take a dainty bite? If I eat it that way, then my biscuit will be cold at the end and the butter won't melt. Am I allowed to place said one-bite-eaten biscuit back on the plate, or must I finish the whole thing once I start eating it? Dear God, am I even allowed to put it on the plate? I'm guessing since it's a biscuit that I would be the height of bad manners to place it on a bread plate. How about putting jam on the biscuit? One bite at a time? Do I use a knife or spoon to get the jam out of the jar? I'm guessing licking the jam off of the proper utensil is also frowned upon.

Great, now I want a biscuit.....