Synthroid, how much is to much?

[rie'smom]

nope,,,,,

Sorry mixed you up with someone else.

Cytomel = T3, Synthroid = T4.

I knew that I should have checked because I always get those two confused.

 

[FlyingDumbo]

Well I am learning a lot! I have been taking the new dose for 3 days and still feel like crap. What is Armour? I am going to google now.

 

[Mixie]

*going on a rant - skip if you don't like rants*

Armour is the natural thyroid pill made from dessicated pig thyroid (yes, swallowing a bit of pig thyroid daily).

It was the standard treatment for decades before some pharmaceutical company developed synthetic T4 and pushed that it was the better treatment (by falsifying a patient test, no less!).

Since then, T4 is the 'standard' treatment for hypo. Even the endocrinologists are brainwashed by their med school training (funded by the pharmaceutical companies!!!) to believe that T4 is the best treatment and that Armour is outdated and lacking.

I was on T4 only for years. My health never improved, and going to Dr after Dr trying to get 'better' met with diagnosis of:

You're depressed
You need to eat less
You need to exercise more
You need to eat better
Take vitamins
It's all in your head, perhaps you should see a shrink

Finally I came across the Stop The Thyroid Madness website and read page after page of people who were just like me - dying slowly by inches while the Drs turned a blind eye.

I bought the book. I did the self tests. I ordered my own lab tests and found out that:

Yes - My TSH was in the 'normal' range like all the Drs had said for years. But what I found out was that the TSH test doesn't tell you the real answer. For that, you need the Free T4 and Free T3 test - that shows you the *active* thyroid hormone that your body has to use. TSH is a pituitary hormone and only shows that it is sending signals to your thyroid - NOT WHAT YOUR THYROID IS ACTUALLY DOING!

So, armed with my free T3 and T4 tests which showed that they were both lacking - meaning there were not enough active thyroid hormones to make me feel better (re: normal!) - I went back to the Dr.

Guess what? They didn't care. TSH is the test that they go by and they wouldn't change anything because my TSH was 'normal'.

So I got Armour all on my own. Stopped taking T4 and took Armour, which is balanced of T4 and T3, as well as T2 and trace elements of other hormones that are considered beneficial and guess what?

I GOT BETTER!

Ok, I admit, not 100% better. I doubt that I will ever get to 100% better. But I'm at about 75-80% better than I was on T4 alone.



Now, I know there are some people out there that are going to post that they are fine on T4 only. I'm happy for you, really I am because I wish I could say I was 'fine' on T4 only. I was not. I could list the ongoing symptoms I had on T4 only but there is probably a maximum word count these posts are allowed and I would run out of room.

So, I say if you have been on T4 for some time and are not doing better - and your Dr isn't helping - it doesn't hurt to do your own research, run your own tests and try a different way.

/rant

Thanks for listening.

 

[AJ12345]

Add me as another that Armour saved. LoL

"Stop the thyroid madness" changed my life. Whether or not your Synthroid (synthetic T4) is working, read through this website. It really is eye-opening.

 

[Christine]

Yes - My TSH was in the 'normal' range like all the Drs had said for years. But what I found out was that the TSH test doesn't tell you the real answer. For that, you need the Free T4 and Free T3 test - that shows you the *active* thyroid hormone that your body has to use. TSH is a pituitary hormone and only shows that it is sending signals to your thyroid - NOT WHAT YOUR THYROID IS ACTUALLY DOING!

So, armed with my free T3 and T4 tests which showed that they were both lacking - meaning there were not enough active thyroid hormones to make me feel better (re: normal!) - I went back to the Dr.

Guess what? They didn't care. TSH is the test that they go by and they wouldn't change anything because my TSH was 'normal'.

So I got Armour all on my own. Stopped taking T4 and took Armour, which is balanced of T4 and T3, as well as T2 and trace elements of other hormones that are considered beneficial and guess what?

I GOT BETTER!

Ok, I admit, not 100% better. I doubt that I will ever get to 100% better. But I'm at about 75-80% better than I was on T4 alone.



Now, I know there are some people out there that are going to post that they are fine on T4 only. I'm happy for you, really I am because I wish I could say I was 'fine' on T4 only. I was not. I could list the ongoing symptoms I had on T4 only but there is probably a maximum word count these posts are allowed and I would run out of room.

So, I say if you have been on T4 for some time and are not doing better - and your Dr isn't helping - it doesn't hurt to do your own research, run your own tests and try a different way.

/rant

Thanks for listening.

First off, let me state: I am not against Armour. If it works for you then go for it.

I do want to address something in your post that showed you were not treated correctly.

A good thyroid doctor will *NEVER* solely rely on the TSH test. NEVER. Whenever my thyroid tests are run I get the full panel. Every 3-6 months. If my T4 is off but my TSH is good, I get more Synthroid. If my T4 is good and my T3 isn't, my doctor then would determine that I am not a "converter" of T4 to T3 and he would treat me with T3. I have had this done too!

I'm not trying to say "don't take Armour" but I want to make sure that people who are visiting doctors ensure that they are getting the proper tests and treatment and not immediately dismissing a proven drug as not working, when really they are being improperly or "under" treated.

Alternatively, I know some VERY good doctors (a few who have been completely open-minded and helpful about alternative therapies) and they don't care for Armour because of the use of pig thyroids and the possible ramifications that can come from using animal products and their sources. I do believe there are some doctors who are on the take from Big Pharma but many of them are good, honest practictioners who only want their patients to feel better and would try anything if it worked.

 

[Mixie]

I agree - a good doctor will run a bunch of tests and not rely only on one or two.

Good luck finding one. I've been to about 10 different doctors - 4 of them specialists in edocrinology - and not one of them would listen to me when I said I was not doing well on T4 only.

Not one.

In fact, one endo had the nerve to say she would not prescribe armour because, and I quote, "It's made from pigs, and we're not pigs, are we?".

Pathetic.

Now, I want to point out that Armour is an AMA approved treatment in the USA and, as such, must meet all federal guidelines for drug safety. That means it's regularly tested and screened just like your heart meds or your birth control pills.

Some doctors - and this has happened - will try to say that Armour is a quack drug like OTC generic herbs which have no standardization or federal approval. NOT TRUE. Armour is, in fact, the oldest federally approved thyroid treatment with close to, if not more (I would have to check) of 100 years of successful use in treating hypothyroidism.

 

[rie'smom]

First off, let me state: I am not against Armour. If it works for you then go for it.

I do want to address something in your post that showed you were not treated correctly.

A good thyroid doctor will *NEVER* solely rely on the TSH test. NEVER. Whenever my thyroid tests are run I get the full panel. Every 3-6 months. If my T4 is off but my TSH is good, I get more Synthroid. If my T4 is good and my T3 isn't, my doctor then would determine that I am not a "converter" of T4 to T3 and he would treat me with T3. I have had this done too!

I'm not trying to say "don't take Armour" but I want to make sure that people who are visiting doctors ensure that they are getting the proper tests and treatment and not immediately dismissing a proven drug as not working, when really they are being improperly or "under" treated.

Alternatively, I know some VERY good doctors (a few who have been completely open-minded and helpful about alternative therapies) and they don't care for Armour because of the use of pig thyroids and the possible ramifications that can come from using animal products and their sources. I do believe there are some doctors who are on the take from Big Pharma but many of them are good, honest practictioners who only want their patients to feel better and would try anything if it worked.

This is true for the most part however just as is the case with other meds, sometimes synthroid just does not work. Sadly, many, many doctors just use TSH testing. I had to ask my primary care physician to do the total t3 and t4 test. My thyroid doctor is 1.5 hours away and he suggested having the primary doc do these tests. Now, I have them done here and then the results are emailed to him. It isn't right but then the doctors are not always as knowledgeable as they should be when it comes to hypothyroidism. They know what they studied in school or what the drug reps tell them period. We have to be our own advocates sometimes.
As I posted previously, most of us eat meat so the doctors saying they have concerns about possible ramifications doesn't fly with me unless they advocate not eating pork across the board. The way meat is processed means that some of pig's organs, brain, heart, thyroid, etc will come into contact with other parts. Eat sausage and God knows what parts of the pig you're eating.

 

[AJ12345]

This is true for the most part however just as is the case with other meds, sometimes synthroid just does not work. Sadly, many, many doctors just use TSH testing. I had to ask my primary care physician to do the total t3 and t4 test. My thyroid doctor is 1.5 hours away and he suggested having the primary doc do these tests. Now, I have them done here and then the results are emailed to him. It isn't right but then the doctors are not always as knowledgeable as they should be when it comes to hypothyroidism. They know what they studied in school or what the drug reps tell them period. We have to be our own advocates sometimes.
As I posted previously, most of us eat meat so the doctors saying they have concerns about possible ramifications doesn't fly with me unless they advocate not eating pork across the board. The way meat is processed means that some of pig's organs, brain, heart, thyroid, etc will come into contact with other parts. Eat sausage and God knows what parts of the pig you're eating.

I'm going to disagree with you here. Your total T3 and total T4 basically give you no indication as to the state of your thyroid. What you need to have tested is your Free T3 and Free T4. These are your "active" thyroid hormones. As a PP stated, TSH only tests a pituitary hormone.

I had a doctor once tell me that Armour thyroid just wasn't being made anymore. I told him I had called the pharmaceutical (sp?) company and they had informed me they were still making it. He then proceeded to tell me it must have been a "wrong number"

 

[AJ12345]

First off, let me state: I am not against Armour. If it works for you then go for it.

I do want to address something in your post that showed you were not treated correctly.

A good thyroid doctor will *NEVER* solely rely on the TSH test. NEVER. Whenever my thyroid tests are run I get the full panel. Every 3-6 months. If my T4 is off but my TSH is good, I get more Synthroid. If my T4 is good and my T3 isn't, my doctor then would determine that I am not a "converter" of T4 to T3 and he would treat me with T3. I have had this done too!

I'm not trying to say "don't take Armour" but I want to make sure that people who are visiting doctors ensure that they are getting the proper tests and treatment and not immediately dismissing a proven drug as not working, when really they are being improperly or "under" treated.

Alternatively, I know some VERY good doctors (a few who have been completely open-minded and helpful about alternative therapies) and they don't care for Armour because of the use of pig thyroids and the possible ramifications that can come from using animal products and their sources. I do believe there are some doctors who are on the take from Big Pharma but many of them are good, honest practictioners who only want their patients to feel better and would try anything if it worked.

Taking Armour isn't just a matter of converting T4 to T3. It also contains T2, T1, and calcitonin which is what your thyroid (if working properly) produces. Synthroid is just T4. No amount of synthetic T4 pumped into your system is going to help your body produce hormones it should normally produce when working properly

 

[Debbie7452]

I am not jumping in to the Armour/Synthroid debate. I have been on both (at different times) and had mixed results with both. However, you definitely need to give yourself more than three days to see if the meds are working. It takes a few weeks to really see a difference. So wait and see before you give up. Good luck! I've been there and it's frustrating.

 

[Christine]

Taking Armour isn't just a matter of converting T4 to T3. It also contains T2, T1, and calcitonin which is what your thyroid (if working properly) produces. Synthroid is just T4. No amount of synthetic T4 pumped into your system is going to help your body produce hormones it should normally produce when working properly

I have been on all the meds:

T4
T3 only
T4/T3 combo (for a few days)
Armour for 8 weeks when I found a doctor who would let me try it.

To be honest, there have been times that I felt bad on T4, but that was mainly due to all my numbers not being right. Once I found the right dosage of T4, which took a LONG time, I have been fine.

Thinking maybe a jump of T3 would help, I took that along side it and I felt *horrible* even though I felt great taking T3 along when prepping for a thyroid scan and not being allowed to take T4. The T4/T3 combo didn't work for me.

Same thing with Armour. I felt very odd on it from day to day. I was surprised because Armour takers are usually quite passionate about how wonderful it is. Admittedly, I would have like to have given it more time; however, the endos I have worked with dislike prescribing it and I didn't want to deal with my "back door" use of it. But I can generally tell within a month or two if a med is going to work for me.

Just as Armour is the absolute right drug for many people, synthetic T4 alone can also be the right drug for many people. I just don't get why the Armour lovers have to be so adamant that T4 can't work for people.

Again, I am not "down" on Armour or trying to denigrate the medication but I do think it is espoused by it's followers as a miracle drug and there are some people who do get let down by it.

 

[Mixie]

I had a doctor once tell me that Armour thyroid just wasn't being made anymore. I told him I had called the pharmaceutical (sp?) company and they had informed me they were still making it. He then proceeded to tell me it must have been a "wrong number"

Glad you can laugh about it now but it just shows the prejudice doctors have against Armour with no valid reasoning and frankly it makes me mad. I hate the fact that a drug that has done wonders for me is do discriminated against that I have to get it under the table from elsewhere. My local pharmacy carries it - I just can't get anyone to give me a scrip for it so my insurance company will pay for it. And lemme tell ya - it ain't cheap for out of pocket.

But I would rather be healthy than rich.

 

[Mixie]

Just as Armour is the absolute right drug for many people, synthetic T4 alone can also be the right drug for many people. I just don't get why the Armour lovers have to be so adamant that T4 can't work for people.

Again, I am not "down" on Armour or trying to denigrate the medication but I do think it is espoused by it's followers as a miracle drug and there are some people who do get let down by it.

I agree. Some folks do fine on T4 only. It's just that push their body needs.

But I found that after 7 years on T4 only (at 0.75 mcg) with a 'normal' TSH it took me increasing my dose of Armour to 4 grains (the rough equivalent of 100.0 mcg) before I really felt better.

0.75 to 100.0 - that's how much I was underdosed with a 'normal' TSH.

One of the things the Stop The Thyroid Madness book explains is that getting the proper dose of Armour from a Doctor is really hard. They don't like it, they don't like to increase it properly and if you start it off low and don't increase it on a good schedule you end up crashing and feeling worse after a few weeks. Armour is increased way faster than the synthetic but Doctors don't do that and then blame the Armour for being 'inferior' when the truth is they don't increase it properly.

I followed the STTM schedule for increasing my dose and wow - it was nearly perfect for me. Some tweaking - because I am an individual and everything needs to be personalized - and I felt better within 6 months than I had in 7 years.

But I couldn't tell my doctors that and get them to listen. And I find that's the terrible shame of our medical system.

 

[Christine]

But I couldn't tell my doctors that and get them to listen. And I find that's the terrible shame of our medical system.

Well it depends on what you believe. I have some excellent literature from one of this country's leading endocrinologists who is *not* in the back pocket of the pharmaceutical industry (BTW, Armour is manufactured by a pharma giant also). He has very good rationale of why he doesn't use it. And no, he does not believe it's dangerous either. I'm not going to spout his literature on this website as I doubt I have permission to quote him but it is enough for me to know that the "Armour" side doesn't have all their facts straight--especially when it comes to T1, T2 and calicitonin.

I want to stress that I am 100% not against Armour thyroid and if something works for you and causes no harm then I think one should take it and, certainly, if one is not getting satisfaction from their T4 preparation after being thoroughly and correctly tested, it's time to pursue other avenues with your doctor. What I don't care for is that there are many laypeople preaching science about Armour, writing books about/against Armour and T4, or against synthetic T4, that are incorrect and overgeneralized.

 

[rie'smom]

I'm going to disagree with you here. Your total T3 and total T4 basically give you no indication as to the state of your thyroid. What you need to have tested is your Free T3 and Free T4. These are your "active" thyroid hormones. As a PP stated, TSH only tests a pituitary hormone.

I had a doctor once tell me that Armour thyroid just wasn't being made anymore. I told him I had called the pharmaceutical (sp?) company and they had informed me they were still making it. He then proceeded to tell me it must have been a "wrong number"

I must have misunderstood the testing terms my doctor used because he was testing for free t3 and t4.
ETA:
My doctor goes by physical symptoms more than by blood tests. He does do the tests but only as a confirmation and more for the insurance companies.

 

[AJ12345]

I must have misunderstood the testing terms my doctor used because he was testing for free t3 and t4.
ETA:
My doctor goes by physical symptoms more than by blood tests. He does do the tests but only as a confirmation and more for the insurance companies.

KEEP THIS DOCTOR!!!! It's a miracle you were able to find someone like that. You are a lucky lucky individual. I wish my doctors went by physical symptoms. It would make my life sooooo much easier.

 

[rie'smom]

KEEP THIS DOCTOR!!!! It's a miracle you were able to find someone like that. You are a lucky lucky individual. I wish my doctors went by physical symptoms. It would make my life sooooo much easier.

http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/symptoms_hypot.pdf

Plus:
# Cold
# Constipated
# Dry skin
# Hair falling out
# Swelling and fluid retention
# Difficulty in concentrating (brain fog)
# Inability to get fever
# Weight gain (or can not get it off)
# Coarse skin-especially heels
# Yellow palms
# Cold feet (the spouses will admit to this!)

This is an incomplete list but these are some of the things on the list. Does anyone remember a doctor using the small hammer to check your knee and ankle reflex? These were also tests to check for thyroid disease. I don't remember the last time a regular doc checked for this type of response.