sure wish parents would watch their kids

[luv2cheer92]

If I've learned anything from this thread, it's just how absolutely awful some people can be. Straight up insulting people because of their personal experiences is beyond insane. What is wrong with some of y'all?

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

Too situational for me to give an "all the time" answer. If my child was in danger of harming themselves or others, yelling might be appropriate (totally depends on the situation). As far as "hitting", I don't have a problem with it, ASSUMING the "punishment fit the crime".

Of course, I grew up when corporal punishment was allowed even through High School.

Same. And if we got it at school, when mom and dad found out, we'd get another one at home. And somehow the vast majority of us all got through it without being psychopaths.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

My therapist actually encourages me to be as open as I feel comfortable with about the abuse I suffered. I think it’s something that shouldn’t be swept under the rug.

I'm with you on that. I can't broadly say a therapist wouldn't or would I think that's knowing the patient but we tend to be a society that has taboo topics and one of the best ways to keep people going with the status quo is to just keep on ignoring topics. I know the side the other poster is meaning about the venue here but if you feel comfortable sharing (if anyone feels comfortable sharing) that's their choice and decision.

One thing I do tend to see on advice is learning who and who isn't in your social circle is receptive to these types of topics. If someone isn't receptive to them unfortunate that it may be it is usually advised to make that a no-go topic. With this being a message board the onus is going to really be on others not you, they will have the choice to ignore you or scroll past your posts regarding this sensitive topic.

 

[lowlight]

This is like Machiavelli’s “is it better to be loved or feared?” I was hit with a belt regularly growing up, and I have mixed feelings on it. I would never and have never done it to my children, but I also believe I would have likely been in prison at this point in my life had I not been raised in that manner. I am a “you can’t tell me what to do” anti authority type person and have been since I could walk. I will never have a great relationship with my father and we didn’t talk for a while until I had children of my own and came to understand how parenting a hard child is…hard. My parents were always hard on us, but I know they forged a fire inside me to survive and flourish no matter what that many of my peers do not have who were raised in more new age households. I have forgiven my parents, not that they needed it, as I’ve grown and become a parent myself. I don’t think there is an answer on the perfect way to parent because there are too many intangibles and nuances from one household to another to copy and paste parenting advice that will work for every situation. I’ve read numerous books, talked to doctors, relatives for advice and the one thing I can say is that anyone that says they have parenting figured out is a liar. And yes, people who aren’t parents are always welcome to comment, but it would be like me telling a woman what it’s like to give birth.

 

[dreamer17555]

@lowlight

Well said. I don’t think you need to have had hard parents to be driven (My oldest is insanely driven and has been since she was tiny, my youngest is not) but there are so many variable that there is no one size fits all. I think the biggest thing we can do as parents is be self reflective, admit when we misstep, and strive to improve.

 

[Tink-osophy]

And sometimes you don't (or can't) wait for that "consistency" to pay off. A smack on the bottom gets their attention and it's over and done with (and presumably the lesson learned). Should it be the first arrow in your quiver? Of course not. Could it succeed where other, more patient methods haven't? Yes.

I disagree.

I agree about the social norms, and I also think a big part of it comes down to people not wanting to reevaluate their decisions. ...

Doubling down in defense of one’s choices is a lot more comfortable than questioning whether you could’ve done a better job by making different choices. I have massive respect for people who can do the latter, but they seem to be the minority.

I agree! (Hopefully, they'll become the majority sooner rather than later, though. )

 

[dez1978]

Because those "better options" don't always work?

Yep. This. I try Gentle Parenting, but my kids are not gentle child-ing What works on one of my kids doesn't work for the other one. What worked for me as a kid, doesn't work for them. Even between parents what works for mom with the kids, might not work when Dad does it.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

My therapist actually encourages me to be as open as I feel comfortable with about the abuse I suffered. I think it’s something that shouldn’t be swept under the rug.

What does it say about you that you feel the need to leave mocking emojis on peoples comments?

Considering I don't always leave mocking emojis on comments, it says I don't feel a need to do that. But if it helps your so-called therapy regarding a little spanking or two to believe such a falsehood, go right ahead. But I do know who was right regarding the thickness of skin conversation.
And though I'd love to stay and have a laugh while you bluster, I simply don't have the time.
Good day

 

[TipsyTraveler]

Is that a "yes"? Anyone who has spanked their child shouldn't have been a parent?

Do people not have a responsibility to at least try to do right by their kids? Times change and the advice changes and as we learn more we know better and need to do better. At some point it becomes negligent not to update your parenting style in accordance with modern understandings of child safety and well-being.

Is someone a fit parent if they insist on putting their newborn face-down to sleep even though we now know that’s not a safe sleep position? Rub alcohol on their gums for teething? A little whisky in the bottle to soothe fussiness? How about letting their kids ride unrestrained in the bed of a pickup truck instead of a car seat? These previously acceptable practices are not only no longer acceptable, in some cases they are criminal.

The detrimental effects of spanking have been established and known for at least 30 years. Anyone today who is choosing to use practices that are that outdated despite knowing better methods are available is not prioritizing their child’s well-being and that is not what I would consider a “good” parent, no.

This used to be okay, below. How long do you think people held on to the argument that they were hung in a cage on the side of a building and turned out just fine, therefore there’s no need to do things differently with their own kids? After all, kids need fresh air and overcoming your fear of heights is a good thing.

 

[sam_gordon]

I disagree.

Fair enough.

 

[sam_gordon]

Do people not have a responsibility to at least try to do right by their kids?

And I think the majority, by far, of parents DO try to do right by their kids. Unfortunately, there are people (you at least) who feel, because they don't make the choices others think are correct shouldn't be parents.

Why can't you just come out and say it? I've asked you twice... do you think someone who has spanked their kids should not be a parent?

 

[Orion Nebula]

My wife and I were waiting in line for Space Ship Earth and saw a stroller roll by with a kid in it. Not a parent to be seen anywhere... we had to leave the line, stop the stroller and get a CM. Still no parents showed up... how they didn't notice their kid just roll off for that long is beyond me.

 

[DCLMP]

Why is it important to develop a thick skin? I have never been screamed at work, I don’t tolerate being yelled at by significant others as there are better ways of communicating. I have never been hit by another adult besides my parents. I can handle criticism but violence and being screamed at are things that don’t happen as part of my adult life. I have gotten through cancer and chemo. I clearly can survive. Why do I need a thick skin?

I do work on the lasting issues my parents left me with. I go to therapy. They however do not. At what point should the parents accept that the were responsible for a child and hurt that child causing some lasting damage?

I have not been a perfect parent either (however I have not been abusive) but I acknowledge when I have let them down or crossed a line and I strive to earn my children’s forgiveness. Because as the adult it is on me to be mature and make the right call.

ETA- serious question- when do you ever as an adult hit or scream at a fellow adult? I can only think of extreme situations when this would be acceptable like if the other adult was attacking you… clearly not something that happens often. So why is it okay to strike a child when you would never for example strike a coworker for making a snide comment?

ETA 2- if the outside world is going to rock my kids which so far it hasn’t (and I say this as a mom whose DD works at Disney and can deal well with unhappy guests) then shouldn’t I represent safety to them? My DD in fact has been through some really rough things but yelling or hitting her as a child wouldn’t have made those things any easier to deal with. It’s not like if you get hit as a child you laugh off chemo or a severe car crash. Please explain to me how a thick skin helps.

You constantly use words like hit, strike or beat. Why not just say spank? They dynamic between a co-worker and child is completely different. There is a chain of command you go through at work to resolve a problem. If my kid crosses a street without looking I'm going to yell at them. I'm not going to fill out an incident report or report it to HR.

I'm sorry you were abused as a child, but not everyone that was spanked sees it as a form of abuse. Child abuse and a swat on the butt aren't even close to being related. My mom says she spanked us as toddlers I don't even remember it.

My parents did the best they could. They gave me food, shelter, love and safety. I don't expect them to atone for every mistake they made that made me less than perfect or left me with some emotional scars. I certainly hope my kids don't hold me to that standard. We all have childhood baggage that's just how life is.

 

[dreamer17555]

You constantly use words like hit, strike or beat. Why not just say spank? They dynamic between a co-worker and child is completely different. There is a chain of command you go through at work to resolve a problem. If my kid crosses a street without looking I'm going to yell at them. I'm not going to fill out an incident report or report it to HR.

I'm sorry you were abused as a child, but not everyone that was spanked sees it as a form of abuse. Child abuse and a swat on the butt aren't even close to being related. My mom says she spanked us as toddlers I don't even remember it.

My parents did the best they could. They gave me food, shelter, love and safety. I don't expect them to atone for every mistake they made that made me less than perfect or left me with some emotional scars. I certainly hope my kids don't hold me to that standard. We all have childhood baggage that's just how life is.

We see things very differently. I am okay with my kids holding me accountable for mistakes I have made. If I have left emotional scars I want to do what I can to help heal them or at the very least admit the part I played in them. I acknowledge when I mess up (and like all parents I do mess up- none of us are perfect) and then I work on making amends and changing my future actions.

ETA- I think it is okay if you don’t want to do the same as me. I am glad you came through your childhood experience with no major issues.

 

[Orion Nebula]

You constantly use words like hit, strike or beat. Why not just say spank? They dynamic between a co-worker and child is completely different. There is a chain of command you go through at work to resolve a problem. If my kid crosses a street without looking I'm going to yell at them. I'm not going to fill out an incident report or report it to HR.

I'm sorry you were abused as a child, but not everyone that was spanked sees it as a form of abuse. Child abuse and a swat on the butt aren't even close to being related. My mom says she spanked us as toddlers I don't even remember it.

My parents did the best they could. They gave me food, shelter, love and safety. I don't expect them to atone for every mistake they made that made me less than perfect or left me with some emotional scars. I certainly hope my kids don't hold me to that standard. We all have childhood baggage that's just how life is.

Well I mean spanking someone is a form of "hitting" them.

Spanking: the act of hitting someone with the hand, usually several times on the bottom as a punishment.

Regardless physical punishment is obviously a extremely heated debate (yes spanking is physical punishment). And probably is a bit sketchy to bring up and argue about here.

And to toss wood in the fire (lol), hitting a child is a release of anger by the parent. An act which shows the parent is unable to control their emotions, and has internal struggles that they need to work on. There is never an excuse to lash out against anyone (yes even children) due to getting angry or upset. Take a deep breath, walk away and cool down. Then re-visit the situation with a clear head, and find other ways to "teach" a child on what they should or shouldn't be doing. I have not ever spanked any of my kids, even when they did really stupid, obnoxious or dangerous things. However they all grew up to be well adjusted adults.

My mom says she spanked us as toddlers I don't even remember it.

That is perhaps one of the most ridiculous defenses I have ever heard.

To each their own though.

 

[sam_gordon]

My wife and I were waiting in line for Space Ship Earth and saw a stroller roll by with a kid in it. Not a parent to be seen anywhere... we had to leave the line, stop the stroller and get a CM. Still no parents showed up... how they didn't notice their kid just roll off for that long is beyond me.

While it's possible they didn't notice, I'd say there's also a possibility they DID notice and were looking for the child & stroller in the wrong direction.

DS got lost as a toddler in/near the Pooh play area. He was actually just telling the story again yesterday. He lost sight of us & we lost sight of him. He went were he remembered us being, we were looking were we last saw him. Obviously we got reunited (with no one else's help), but there were probably people judging us "how did they not notice?".

 

[sam_gordon]

I have not ever spanked any of my kids, even when they did really stupid, obnoxious or dangerous things. However they all grew up to be well adjusted adults.

People keep coming back to that, but when those of us on the other side (who did spank our kids) say OUR kids also grew up to be well adjusted adults, we get "Well, the damage may not present itself for up to 40 years."

 

[TipsyTraveler]

And I think the majority, by far, of parents DO try to do right by their kids. Unfortunately, there are people (you at least) who feel, because they don't make the choices others think are correct shouldn't be parents.

Why can't you just come out and say it? I've asked you twice... do you think someone who has spanked their kids should not be a parent?

There’s a difference between parenting “choices” vs. doing things that are known to be dangerous or harmful. It’s not about anyone parenting the way I think they should — it’s about purposely ignoring professional recommendations that have been established for decades in the interest of child safety.

“Many studies have shown that physical punishment — including spanking, hitting and other means of causing pain — can lead to increased aggression, antisocial behavior, physical injury and mental health problems for children.”

https://www.apa.org/monitor/2012/04/spanking

And I’m sorry, I thought I did answer your question when I said people who insist on using decades-outdated parenting techniques despite knowing they are detrimental to the child’s well-being are not what I would consider “good” parents. It would be great if everyone who had children was a good parent but that’s not the reality. Just how bad does a parent need to be before I’d say they shouldn’t have kids at all? There are too many variables to even attempt to give a blanket answer to that question.

 

[DCLMP]

Well I mean spanking someone is a form of "hitting" them.



Regardless physical punishment is obviously a extremely heated debate (yes spanking is physical punishment). And probably is a bit sketchy to bring up and argue about here.

And to toss wood in the fire (lol), hitting a child is a release of anger by the parent. An act which shows the parent is unable to control their emotions, and has internal struggles that they need to work on. There is never an excuse to lash out against anyone (yes even children) due to getting angry or upset. Take a deep breath, walk away and cool down. Then re-visit the situation with a clear head, and find other ways to "teach" a child on what they should or shouldn't be doing. I have not ever spanked any of my kids, even when they did really stupid, obnoxious or dangerous things. However they all grew up to be well adjusted adults.



That is perhaps one of the most ridiculous defenses I have ever heard.

To each their own though.

You know why certain words are used. Don't play coy. I'm not trying to defend my parents. They gave me a great life and I'm very grateful for everything they did for me.

In my opinion spanking or not spanking has very little to do with a human being well adjusted or not. There's just way to many factors at play there.

 

[sam_gordon]

And I’m sorry, I thought I did answer your question when I said people who insist on using decades-outdated parenting techniques despite knowing they are detrimental to the child’s well-being are not what I would consider “good” parents. It would be great if everyone who had children was a good parent but that’s not the reality. Just how bad does a parent need to be before I’d say they shouldn’t have kids at all? There are too many variables to even attempt to give a blanket answer to that question.

Your original post didn't say you didn't consider them "good" parents... you said they shouldn't BE parents (at least that's how I read it)...

If child behavior has the ability to push you over the ledge like that, you probably aren’t cut out to be a parent. Stick with houseplants.

Now, did I misunderstand what you said? I've asked multiple times to clarify what you were trying to say.

Now, some paragraphs from the article you linked to (I didn't want to copy this much, but I think it's all relevant)...

As in many areas of science, some researchers disagree about the validity of the studies on physical punishment. Robert Larzelere, PhD, an Oklahoma State University professor who studies parental discipline, was a member of the APA task force who issued his own minority report because he disagreed with the scientific basis of the task force recommendations. While he agrees that parents should reduce their use of physical punishment, he says most of the cited studies are correlational and don’t show a causal link between physical punishment and long-term negative effects for children.

“The studies do not discriminate well between non-abusive and overly severe types of corporal punishment,” Larzelere says. “You get worse outcomes from corporal punishment than from alternative disciplinary techniques only when it is used more severely or as the primary discipline tactic.”

In a meta-analysis of 26 studies, Larzelere and a colleague found that an approach they described as “conditional spanking” led to greater reductions in child defiance or anti-social behavior than 10 of 13 alternative discipline techniques, including reasoning, removal of privileges and time out (Clinical Child and Family Psychology Review, 2005). Larzelere defines conditional spanking as a disciplinary technique for 2- to 6-year-old children in which parents use two open-handed swats on the buttocks only after the child has defied milder discipline such as time out.