Subs - how many is ok?

[Nicolepa]

In the last 3 weeks my 6th graders has had 6 days of subs. When is it not ok? My daughter has nicknames for them all. In the last 3 weeks we've had:

Texting sub. Children had free time the entire day and sub was on her phone texting.

Puzzle sub. We've had him a lot this year. He brings word puzzles and that's what the kids do all day. We've had him 2.5 days in the last 3 weeks.

YouTube sub. She shows Pixar shorts and muppet videos. We've had her 3 days.

Yesterday my daughter kept track of what they did.

Snack 10 min.
Library 30 minutes
Lunch/recess 60 minutes
Recess 15 minutes
Free Reading 30 minutes
Free time 45 minutes
YouTube Videos 35 minutes

That is 3 hours and 45 minutes of the school day where NO learning took place.

 

[mrsv98]

In the last 3 weeks my 6th graders has had 6 days of subs. When is it not ok? My daughter has nicknames for them all. In the last 3 weeks we've had:

Texting sub. Children had free time the entire day and sub was on her phone texting.

Puzzle sub. We've had him a lot this year. He brings word puzzles and that's what the kids do all day. We've had him 2.5 days in the last 3 weeks.

YouTube sub. She shows Pixar shorts and muppet videos. We've had her 3 days.

Yesterday my daughter kept track of what they did.

Snack 10 min.
Library 30 minutes
Lunch/recess 60 minutes
Recess 15 minutes
Free Reading 30 minutes
Free time 45 minutes
YouTube Videos 35 minutes

That is 3 hours and 45 minutes of the school day where NO learning took place.

Seriously I would be ticked off. Is this for the same teacher? If so then the teacher and principal are seriously neglecting their jobs. I can see a last minute emergency sub doing the word puzzles, but if this is an ongoing issue then there is a problem. When I taught, we were required to have a sub folder and we still called in to make sure the kids were on track.

 

[Coconut36]

How ever many are needed. It's one thing to let the school know the subs they have hired are not doing what they should be for the day. The teacher has left lesson plans for them to follow (in DH's district they are filed for the week on Monday) so there is no reason for them not to be follow some semblance of learning during the day. It is NOT OK for you to determine how many times a teacher is allowed to be out or a sub brought in. If the district/school does not have a policy regarding the teacher providing lesson plans and materials then by all means speak up about that as well so that they can have continued education. Unless there was a serious emergency the teacher should be able to email lesson plans to the school/have structure for the sub to follow.

When my Grandma was in the hospital dying over the course of 6 weeks you can bet my Mom had plenty of subs coming in because her dying mother was her priority and she has the legal right to the time she took off as does any other teacher for any reason. Teachers are humans with lives, sick children and family members, health issues of their own and any multitude of health problems/issues (then factor in their work obligations like classes, meetings (IEP meetings for example or other education specific meetings)..etc that they are required to attend and result in them needing a sub)

If the school is bringing in subs that seem to be lazy then let them know and they will possibly not bring those people back in again. How often or the duration of subs isn't your business.

 

[castleview]

Most of what Coconut said I agree with. The subs are given lesson plans to follow and if they're not, the teacher is in the wrong. Any reason about the need for subs? Maternity leave? Teacher in building but doing assessments?

 

[SpecialK]

I agree with the previous poster. The issue isn't the number of days with a sub; the issue is that the teacher did not leave lesson plans for the sub to follow.

This time of year, teachers are pulled out a lot for end-of-the-year meetings and IEP meetings. He/she should know to have plans ready.

 

[crashbb]

I agree that the problem is lack of lesson plans, but most the things in your list, would have happened with the normal teacher or a sub with a lesson plan.

Snack 10 min. - I assume this is a daily thing?
Library 30 minutes - This was always a scheduled thing around here
Lunch/recess 60 minutes - Daily thing
Recess 15 minutes - Daily thing
Free Reading 30 minutes - Again, this was a normal scheduled thing around here
Free time 45 minutes - Likely due to lack of lesson plan
YouTube Videos 35 minutes - Likely due to lack of lesson plan

 

[DeltaDiamond001]

how ever many are needed. It's one thing to let the school know the subs they have hired are not doing what they should be for the day. The teacher has left lesson plans for them to follow (in dh's district they are filed for the week on monday) so there is no reason for them not to be follow some semblance of learning during the day. It is not ok for you to determine how many times a teacher is allowed to be out or a sub brought in. If the district/school does not have a policy regarding the teacher providing lesson plans and materials then by all means speak up about that as well so that they can have continued education. Unless there was a serious emergency the teacher should be able to email lesson plans to the school/have structure for the sub to follow.

When my grandma was in the hospital dying over the course of 6 weeks you can bet my mom had plenty of subs coming in because her dying mother was her priority and she has the legal right to the time she took off as does any other teacher for any reason. Teachers are humans with lives, sick children and family members, health issues of their own and any multitude of health problems/issues (then factor in their work obligations like classes, meetings (iep meetings for example or other education specific meetings)..etc that they are required to attend and result in them needing a sub)

if the school is bringing in subs that seem to be lazy then let them know and they will possibly not bring those people back in again. How often or the duration of subs isn't your business.

+1!

 

[1novascotian]

In any school board I have heard of, teachers are required to leave plans for the subs. This could be anything from review sheets, to textbook work, to working on projects, to tests, to the delivery of information.

In my area subs who do perform well (repeated classroom control issues, not following plans etc) are generally not called to sub at that school again.

Teachers can be out for a variety of reasons: Health, family issues, assessments, even the occasional professional development day (Ie: Math teachers meet for training)

You cannot make a judgement on how many sub days is too many, every situation is different, and frankly, in my experience if a teacher is not at school there is a pretty good reason why they aren't. Also is this sub all for one teacher?

Some of the behaviour your child is telling you is concerning (ie: the sub texting in the classroom), maybe this is something that you should mention to your daughters teacher, however the fact that the teacher (if it is only one) has missed 6 days is not the issue here. That is their own private matter (if it is for personal/health reasons etc).

To finish this off I would like to point out that not all subs are like that. Most subs (at least the successful ones) try their best to come in to a class full of children that they may not know and keep the class in control and learning going for that day. Sometimes, it is tough to get the kids to stay focused, especially around the age of pre-teens and young teens (Junior high aged) because they view the fact that there is a sub in as a day to be difficult, or just silly. Even with the most experienced subs there are some days the class will simply not learn as much as they would have had their regular teacher been there, for a variety of reasons, which could even be that the class has a difficult time adapting to change.

 

[Coconut36]

In any school board I have heard of, teachers are required to leave plans for the subs. This could be anything from review sheets, to textbook work, to working on projects, to tests, to the delivery of information.

In my area subs who do perform well (repeated classroom control issues, not following plans etc) are generally not called to sub at that school again.

Teachers can be out for a variety of reasons: Health, family issues, assessments, even the occasional professional development day (Ie: Math teachers meet for training)

You cannot make a judgement on how many sub days is too many, every situation is different, and frankly, in my experience if a teacher is not at school there is a pretty good reason why they aren't. Also is this sub all for one teacher?

Some of the behaviour your child is telling you is concerning (ie: the sub texting in the classroom), maybe this is something that you should mention to your daughters teacher, however the fact that the teacher (if it is only one) has missed 6 days is not the issue here. That is their own private matter (if it is for personal/health reasons etc).

To finish this off I would like to point out that not all subs are like that. Most subs (at least the successful ones) try their best to come in to a class full of children that they may not know and keep the class in control and learning going for that day. Sometimes, it is tough to get the kids to stay focused, especially around the age of pre-teens and young teens (Junior high aged) because they view the fact that there is a sub in as a day to be difficult, or just silly. Even with the most experienced subs there are some days the class will simply not learn as much as they would have had their regular teacher been there, for a variety of reasons, which could even be that the class has a difficult time adapting to change.

The bold is a good point. I would start with the regular classroom teacher in regards to your concerns about the subs behavior. My DH has certain subs he will request for known absences for instance and if that sub was not doing their job he would want to know as he would no longer request that person.

 

[HeatherC]

Sub here! I have never heard of any subs at our school doing this. Seriously, just wouldn't happen. Is the teacher leaving lesson plans? I would ask the teacher or principal...if teacher won't be back for a while.

Every class I have ever subbed for over the last five years, has had lesson plans. In rare emergency situations, when I can't locate a lesson plan or teacher didn't leave one, there are always team teachers to get lesson plans from. This is wonderful, because it makes my day easier and keeps the kids on familiar ground.

As a parent, I would be really angry if that is all they are having their subs do.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

Most school districts have a set limit of days a teacher can be out. I would assume if the teacher has been missing a lot of time, that the teacher or a member of his or her family is ill or there is something going on that the administration is pulling this teacher out of class awhile each day for meetings or some other type of work

If that's true, then it's up to the administration to find a more permanent substitute.

Is it possible the teacher didn't leave plans? Yes.

Is it possible the sub isn't following plans the teacher left? Yes.

Talk with administration, complain about the subs, and ask if there can be some type of more permanent sub if this is going to be an extended leave.

Or... are these subs covering different teachers? Since it's 6th grade, do they have different teachers for different classes?

 

[Coconut36]

Most school districts have a set limit of days a teacher can be out. I would assume if the teacher has been missing a lot of time, that the teacher or a member of his or her family is ill or there is something going on that the administration is pulling this teacher out of class awhile each day for meetings or some other type of work

If that's true, then it's up to the administration to find a more permanent substitute.

Is it possible the teacher didn't leave plans? Yes.

Is it possible the sub isn't following plans the teacher left? Yes.

Talk with administration, complain about the subs, and ask if there can be some type of more permanent sub if this is going to be an extended leave.

I have never heard of the bold. Teachers here are not limited to a set number of days per year and have FMLA coverage as well (12 weeks). They are allowed to be out as much as their sick and personal time allows them to be and in most districts here when a teacher has a serious health issue or serious health issue in the family they can ask for donations of sick time to cover them as well (teachers in the district will donate a day or more to this teacher so they have paid time). There are several teachers battling cancer that I know sent out a plea for days to cover their chemo and other cancer treatment situations. There is no limit on how many days they can be out in a given year/semester. Obviously in situations where it is long term they are going to be working with their Principal and planning things out.

Now they generally will work with their administration regarding having 1 sub if it is several known consecutive days out so the kids don't have someone new in each day but there are no requirements around that and sometimes getting someone for that long is difficult and it has to be multiple subs.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

I have never heard of the bold.

Districts around here have a set number of personal days and sick days, plus you can pull out of a bank. After that, you'd have to take short term disability or something.

So we're talking about the same thing, really.

What I mean is that I doubt the teacher is on vacation this whole time, etc. And if the teacher is sick, I mean, what are you supposed to do? Make him/her come in?

 

[Coconut36]

Districts around here have a set number of personal days and sick days, plus you can pull out of a bank. After that, you'd have to take short term disability or something.

So we're talking about the same thing, really.

What I mean is that I doubt the teacher is on vacation this whole time, etc. And if the teacher is sick, I mean, what are you supposed to do? Make him/her come in?

Oh I see what you are saying now. I initially took it to mean all teachers can only take X number of days and they lose their job or something like that. Here they generally will exhausted sick/personal time and then go out on STD. So yes after a certain point it will switch over to that vs just taking individual days off.

 

[scrapquitler]

Yesterday my daughter kept track of what they did.

Snack 10 min.
Library 30 minutes
Lunch/recess 60 minutes
Recess 15 minutes
Free Reading 30 minutes
Free time 45 minutes
YouTube Videos 35 minutes

That is 3 hours and 45 minutes of the school day where NO learning took place.

To be fair, most of the above, is probably ALWAYS part of the schools schedule. You can't blame snack, library, lunch, recess and free reading on the sub. They probably do those things normally every day anyway.

I used to sub. How much learning happened when I was in the classroom was directly related to what plans the regular teacher left for me to use. There were days where the teacher had everything planned and scripted for me, so that I was able to do all the normal daily lessons with no hiccups. There were other days where the teacher had apparently not been planning to be out and I was there literally with no class list, no teachers manuals, no plan book and absolutely NO idea what to do. Some teachers left plans to continue the regular work, and there were other teachers who left piles of worksheets and word searches that were obviously filler meant to just keep the kids busy without expecting (or maybe because she didn't WANT) the sub to continue the normal lessons. So all this non-learning that your daughter has seen these last few weeks might be because the teacher planned it that way, or because the teacher was unprepared to be out. It might not be the subs fault. But it might be.

As to how much is 'okay'...well, that's up to the school district and the principal. In 4th grade, my daughter had the teacher who was the writing specialist for the district. She was constantly out taking trainings, helping set things up for other classes in the district, etc. I'd say she was out at least 20 times either for a full day or half day because of that reason alone. In 5th grade, my DDs teacher was pregnant and missed a lot of days because of that. My DD currently has a teacher (she's in high school) who has been out for 6 weeks because he has a serious illness.

 

[mickeyboat]

I get that teachers need time off, just like we all do, but I think that constant subs have a negative effect on the classroom, even if perfect lesson plans are left for the perfect sub.

Six times in three weeks is excessive as far as I am concerned. If I missed that much work, no matter how much I tried to prepare in advance or how well I trained whoever was going to take my place, my desk and all the work I am responsible for would be a disaster.

OP, I hope this is just a temporary issue and things will return to normal for your DD soon.

 

[shortbun]

Sounds like the teacher is having some trouble and that happens to all of us. However, he or she should be leaving a lesson plan with the understanding that students are never as well behaved for a sub as they are for the assigned teacher. Why not check in with the principal about the texting sub and Youtube sub. They should not be invited back. The puzzle guy sounds interesting since he's at least keeping their brains moving. When my husband was subbing, no one ever took a real interest in anything except that he kept the peace in the classroom. He actually worked hard to find out what was happening in the classroom and at least have a discussion about most subjects every day. The teacher could at least leave some work sheets to keep the kids focus on their current units.

 

[Coconut36]

I get that teachers need time off, just like we all do, but I think that constant subs have a negative effect on the classroom, even if perfect lesson plans are left for the perfect sub.

Six times in three weeks is excessive as far as I am concerned. If I missed that much work, no matter how much I tried to prepare in advance or how well I trained whoever was going to take my place, my desk and all the work I am responsible for would be a disaster.

OP, I hope this is just a temporary issue and things will return to normal for your DD soon.

Seriously though..if the teacher is ill or has an ill family member what do you propose they do? Come in sick and make expose the kids? Leave their sick kid/family member at home so they can come into work? Miss the needed Dr appointment or treatment? Tell the parent "sorry I can't attend your kids IEP meeting because I have already had to attend 4 of them in the last 2 weeks"?

 

[pumpkinmomma]

To be fair, most of the above, is probably ALWAYS part of the schools schedule. You can't blame snack, library, lunch, recess and free reading on the sub. They probably do those things normally every day anyway.

I used to sub. How much learning happened when I was in the classroom was directly related to what plans the regular teacher left for me to use. There were days where the teacher had everything planned and scripted for me, so that I was able to do all the normal daily lessons with no hiccups. There were other days where the teacher had apparently not been planning to be out and I was there literally with no class list, no teachers manuals, no plan book and absolutely NO idea what to do. Some teachers left plans to continue the regular work, and there were other teachers who left piles of worksheets and word searches that were obviously filler meant to just keep the kids busy without expecting (or maybe because she didn't WANT) the sub to continue the normal lessons. So all this non-learning that your daughter has seen these last few weeks might be because the teacher planned it that way, or because the teacher was unprepared to be out. It might not be the subs fault. But it might be.

As to how much is 'okay'...well, that's up to the school district and the principal. In 4th grade, my daughter had the teacher who was the writing specialist for the district. She was constantly out taking trainings, helping set things up for other classes in the district, etc. I'd say she was out at least 20 times either for a full day or half day because of that reason alone. In 5th grade, my DDs teacher was pregnant and missed a lot of days because of that. My DD currently has a teacher (she's in high school) who has been out for 6 weeks because he has a serious illness.

I used to sub and this was my experience as well.

I don't think it's any of your business why the teacher is missing school. She may have a family illness or personal illness causing her to miss. That is between her and her boss. If you are having a problem with a specific sub, you can call the school and complain.

 

[mickeyboat]

Seriously though..if the teacher is ill or has an ill family member what do you propose they do? Come in sick and make expose the kids? Leave their sick kid/family member at home so they can come into work? Miss the needed Dr appointment or treatment? Tell the parent "sorry I can't attend your kids IEP meeting because I have already had to attend 4 of them in the last 2 weeks"?

I don't know what the answer is, but it does not change the fact that the classroom is suffering when a teacher is only there 60% of the time.