Student Loans

[NotUrsula]

This is really simple!

There is a program in this country where the federal government will pay for you to go to college. You can Get a degree in anything you want.

All you have to do is :
Apply

Put your hand up and say ,

I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

You then write a blank check to the federal government in the amount of anything up to including your life, or worst.

After four years you thank the government and go to school for free….

Paying for any who has not gone through that hardship, or atleast provided positively to the democratic process that allows us all to have these freedoms, seems to do a discredit and dishonor to those that have given their life so other can complain ….

You do realize that the military has physical qualifications that must be met, right? Do you really want to say that someone who is economically disadvantaged and deaf, or allergic to bees, or has a metal plate in his leg because of a childhood accident, but in all cases have perfectly healthy brains, should be told that "Well, you should have joined the military if you wanted a hand up, but you didn't, so tough nougies"?

The military is a great option for those for whom it actually is an option, but there are a huge number of Americans who with all the determination in the world are barred from taking that route. Some of them may be very deserving, including the many who serve the public in other roles. Since there are already separate college-funding programs for veterans (who also get to bypass the age limit for independent student status for Federal Grant eligibility), I think it's fairly safe to say that veteran status isn't particularly germane to this discussion.

Life really isn't always conveniently black and white; there are a multitude of shades of gray involved in these situations.

 

[EilonwyWanderer]

Are you familiar doctrine of Caveat Emptor?

I don’t believe I can buy into the idea Dept of ED being a predatory lender.

I do buy into the idea of people spend ridiculous amounts of money to get worthless degrees, and expecting someone to bail them out.

You know there are doctors who still have 200k in student loan debt right? You don't become a doctor or a lawyer and are instantly able to pay off your debt. It's still a huge, huge burden even for people who have, in your mind "worthwhile" degrees.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

I think referring to military service as a government program for a free education discredits and dishonors those who served, including those have given their life for this country. Sadly, it also underscores why the majority of enlistees come from poor households - because the higher education system is so messed up.

ETA: I realize that the offer of a free education is only one of the reasons most enlistees come from poor households, but it is a significant one.

Interesting
The Marines paid for by brother masters (we consider ourselves upper middle class)
The Navy paid for his wife’s PHD ( she is from a family of PhDs. I wouldn’t list them as poor)

Lots of my friends have gladly used there GI bill for advanced degrees and aviations ratings.

 

[Sinder]

It's baffling to me that you're missing the point here. The government offered a program to wave the payments for people who got certain jobs and paid in for ten years. People did that. Ten years later the government basically reneged. How is that the fault of the people that trusted the system? They knew what they were agreeing to. The system took advantage of that. The system was broken and there was no way anyone would know that for ten years.

So do you think everyone calling for student loan forgiveness are these people who took advantage of a program (where the fine print most likely said terms could change at any time)?

Pay back what you agreed to when you borrowed it. I don’t care who you are or what your profession is, you are responsible for your own choices.

 

[BK2014]

I don’t believe I can buy into the idea Dept of ED being a predatory lender.

Then you simply don't understand what a predatory lender is.

Are you familiar doctrine of Caveat Emptor?

What about the government being aware that when you loan hundreds of thousands of dollars to people with no income, no assets, and no guarantee of either in the future that there is a huge likelihood that they will default on those loans. Again, this is why home loan lending standards are much more strict following the great recession.

Interesting
The Marines paid for by brother masters (we consider ourselves upper middle class)
The Navy paid for his wife’s PHD ( she is from a family of PhDs. I would list them as poor)

Lots of my friends have gladly used there GI bill for advanced degrees and aviations ratings.

Once again you miss the point.

 

[Sinder]

So do predatory lenders hold guns to your head, threaten your family?
Give me a break, people sign on the dotted line because they are ignorant or they don’t care because they will worry about it when the time comes due. Don’t whine about being duped, you could have always said NO THANK YOU

Hey mods this is a general thought in case that’s not clear to you

 

[BK2014]

So do you think everyone calling for student loan forgiveness are these people who took advantage of a program (where the fine print most likely said terms could change at any time)?

Are you really okay with the government enticing people to make life altering decision with the enticement of a program where the terms could change at any time?

 

[Robbie Cottam]

Then you simply don't understand what a predatory lender is.

What about the government being aware that when you loan hundreds of thousands of dollars to people with no income, no assets, and no guarantee of either in the future that there is a huge likelihood that they will default on those loans. Again, this is why home loan lending standards are much more strict following the great recession.

Once again you miss the point.

Not missing the point at all.

I have Evaluating your point and I find it invalid

 

[Robbie Cottam]

Then you simply don't understand what a predatory lender is.

What about the government being aware that when you loan hundreds of thousands of dollars to people with no income, no assets, and no guarantee of either in the future that there is a huge likelihood that they will default on those loans. Again, this is why home loan lending standards are much more strict following the great recession.

Once again you miss the point.

Not missing your point, just think it is invalid

 

[Sinder]

Are you really okay with the government enticing people to make life altering decision with the enticement of a program where the terms could change at any time?

I repeatedly said “pay back what you agreed to borrow” so what does that tell you.
Not every loan that would be forgiven are loans of people in that program. Are you OK with a government stealing from its citizens to forgive the agreed upon debts of those who agreed to pay them?

ETA- As far as making a decision where terms could change at any time, if it states that in the agreement/contract you choose to sign then I’ve got no problem with it.
If you don’t care enough to read the fine print, or if you do and sign anyway then clearly you are OK with a government doing just that. Why should someone else care more about what you signed than you do?

 

[Sinder]

Apparently yesterday a group of lawmakers proposed an alternative to student loan forgiveness. It proposes capping the amount of interest one can accumulate. That means people would be able to break out the calculator and figure out exactly what they’ll be paying for 10 years. They can agree to the loan or decide its too much of a risk.
It won’t go anywhere of course because it still requires people to pay for what they agreed too and not be able to use the excuse that they’re a victim of some predator lender instead of their own ignorance.
Currently those in power don’t think that’s fair, so definitely won’t go anywhere.

 

[notatallmagic]

Everyone should realize at this point that there are many medical conditions that render you unable to serve in the US Military. Also I think we should have a better system than having people willing to die to pay for college.

I believe there are multiple programs where you can utilize skills in areas where there are shortages in turn for loan forgiveness - there (I believe) was Teach for America, which allowed significant student loan forgiveness for teaching in a struggling district (the one where my kids go was/is eligible). There are also many programs for medical careers in areas with shortages that have loan forgivenesss benefits. I believe strongly that this type of program should be utilized as it benefits everyone involved - graduates get experience and loan forgiveness, and medical/educational/other life needs are met. Of course these programs only work with "practical" fields of study. That's a whole other issue...

 

[EilonwyWanderer]

Those programs don't work in general. It would be GREAT if they did, but they are bogged down by tons and tons of issues--see all the articles linked in this thread.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

So do predatory lenders hold guns to your head, threaten your family?
Give me a break, people sign on the dotted line because they are ignorant or they don’t care because they will worry about it when the time comes due. Don’t whine about being duped, you could have always said NO THANK YOU

Hey mods this is a general thought in case that’s not clear to you

The government disagrees with you and has sued and forced payment settlements, discharged loans and more to various lenders and servicers as well as colleges themselves. Apparently they, even if not doing as much as I think they could do, consider there is an issue with this and this spans various administrations.

I understand that the usage of the word predatory may be one not everyone agrees in using but that is what the practices (and what we've basically come to see as norm) is.

 

[mom2rtk]

I think we have to be careful not to put the term "predatory" out there, citing examples of some of the unscrupulous for profit schools, but then extrapolating that out to mean all schools and lenders. There were some bad practices, and those should be dealt with specifically. But it doesn't mean we should generalize to all schools and all loans.

 

[leebee]

The willful ignorance here boggles my mind.

I don't think ed loans should be forgiven. If you signed for the loan, you signed for the loan. HOWEVER... I think ed loans should be made at simple interest. If you borrow $10000 at 5%, you should pay back $10,500, over time. STOP amortizing ed loans. STOP offering programs that allow you to pay less to begin with and more as the term progresses, effectively capitalizing interest. JUST STOP WITH THE EGREGIOUSLY GREEDY PROFIT-MAKING. (Oh wait, this is the USA... talk about a pipe dream). I would like to see the lenders review all outstanding loans. Look at the principal and interest rate ORIGINALLY signed for, calculate what would have been owed under those terms at simple interest, then compare that to what has been paid. If people still owe money, fine. If they don't, if they've overpaid due to years and years of predatory practices, then STOP. They are DONE. I'd like to think that the companies would pay back any overpayment above what was originally signed for, but we need to be realistic about some of this. The problem is, it won't happen. Lenders are making money hand over fist, and greed is the name of the game in the USA, so... no solutions, I guess.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I think we have to be careful not to put the term "predatory" out there, citing examples of some of the unscrupulous for profit schools, but then extrapolating that out to mean all schools and lenders. There were some bad practices, and those should be dealt with specifically. But it doesn't mean we should generalize to all schools and all loans.

There hasn't been any poster who has done that. If posters are assuming that even mentioning the word predatory means ALL loans are taken out by predatory practices then posters are simply making assumptions. To even say "some of the unscrupulous schools" is way misunderstanding and not a dang poster has extrapolated it out to mean all schools or all loans. Navient was my servicer for my Fed loans before it being moved to Aidvantage (although it was paid off by then) but I don't nor haven't said the loan itself was taken out under predatory practices, however Navient themselves did engage in that stuff as well as other things and it's entirely possible I could have been a recipient had I sought advice from them.

I figured we were giving posters more credit for understanding that people were not talking about the trillions in dollars of student loans, but to sideswipe that into shrugging it off like it's not really that big of an issue is pretty dang awful.

Here's the list of just the for profit schools updated a few days ago but it says over 155 for profit schools qualify either for settlement or forgiveness

Alta Colleges, Inc. (Westwood)​

• Westwood College

American Commercial Colleges, Inc.​

• American Commercial College

American National University​

• American National University

Ana Maria Piña Houde and Marc Houde​

• Anamarc College

Anthem Education Group (InternationalEducation Corporation)​

• Anthem College
• Anthem Institute

Apollo Group​

• University of Phoenix
• Western International University

ATI Enterprises​

• ATI Career Training Center
• ATI College
• ATI College of Health
• ATI Technical Training Center

B&H Education, Inc.​

• Marinello School of Beauty

Berkeley College (NY)​

• Berkeley College

Bridgepoint Education​

• Ashford University
• University of the Rockies

Capella Education Company (StrategicEducation, Inc.)​

• Capella University

Career Education Corporation​

• American InterContinental University
• Briarcliffe College
• Brooks College
• Brooks Institute
• Collins College
• Colorado Technical University
• Gibbs College
• Harrington College of Design
• International Academy of Design and Technology
• Katharine Gibbs School
• Le Cordon Bleu
• Le Cordon Bleu College of Culinary Arts
• Le Cordon Bleu Institute of Culinary Arts
• Lehigh Valley College
• McIntosh College
• Missouri College of Cosmetology North
• Pittsburgh Career Institute
• Sanford‐Brown College
• Sanford‐Brown Institute
• Brown College
• Brown Institute
• Washington Business School
• Allentown Business School
• Western School of Health and Business Careers
• Ultrasound Diagnostic Schools
• School of Computer Technology
• Al Collins Graphic Design School
• Orlando Culinary Academy
• Southern California School of Culinary Arts
• California Culinary Academy
• California School of Culinary Arts
• Pennsylvania Culinary Institute
• Cooking and Hospitality Institute of Chicago
• Scottsdale Culinary Institute
• Texas Culinary Academy
• Kitchen Academy
• Western Culinary Institute

Center for Employment Training​

• Center for Employment Training

Center for Excellence in Higher Education(CEHE)​

• California College San Diego
• CollegeAmerica
• Independence University
• Stevens‐Henager

Corinthian Colleges, Inc.​

• American Motorcycle Institute
• Ashmead College
• Blair College
• Bryman College
• Bryman Institutde
• CDI College
• Duff's Business Institute
• Eton Technical Institute
• Everest
• Everest University Online
• Everest College Phoenix
• Florida Metropolitan University
• Georgia Medical Institute
• Heald College
• Kee Business College
• Las Vegas College
• National Institute of Technology
• National School of Technology
• Olympia Career Training Instittue
• Olympia College
• Parks College
• Rochester Business Institute
• Sequoia College
• Tampa College
• Western Business College
• WyoTech

Computer Systems Institute​

• Computer Systems Institute

Court Reporting Institute, Inc.​

• Court Reporting Institute

Cynthia Becher​

• La' James College of Hairstyling
• La' James International College

David Pyle​

• American Career College
• American Career Institute

Delta Career Education Corporation​

• McCann School of Business & Technology
• Miami‐Jacobs Career College
• Miller Motte Business College
• Miller‐Motte College
• Miller‐Motte Technical College
• Tucson College

DeVry​

• American University of the Caribbean
• Carrington College
• Chamberlain University
• DeVry College of Technology
• Devry Institute of Technology
• DeVry University
• Keller Graduate School of Management
• Ross University School of Veterinary Medicine
• Ross University School of Medicine

EDMC/Dream Center​

• Argosy University
• The Art Institute
• Brown Mackie College
• Illinois Institute of Art
• Miami International University of Art & Design
• New England Institute of Art
• South University
• Western State University College of Law

Education Affiliates (JLL Partners)​

• All‐State Career School
• Fortis College
• Fortis Institute

Edudyne Systems Inc.​

• Career Point College

Empire Education Group​

• Empire Beauty School

Everglades College, Inc.​

• Everglades University
• Keiser University

FastTrain​

• FastTrain

Globe Education Network​

• Globe University
• Minnesota School of Business

Graham Holdings Company (Kaplan)​

• Bauder College
• Kaplan Career Institute
• Kaplan College
• Mount Washington College
• Purdue University Global

Grand Canyon Education, Inc.​

• Grand Canyon University

Infilaw Holding, LLC​

• Arizona Summit Law School
• Charlotte School of Law
• Florida Coastal School of Law

International Education Corporation​

• Florida Career College
• United Education Institute

ITT Educational Services Inc.​

• ITT Technical Institute

JTC Education, Inc.​

• Gwinnett College
• Medtech College
• Radians College

Laureate Education, Inc​

• Walden University

Leeds Equity Partners V, L.P.​

• Florida Technical College
• National University College
• NUC University

Liberty Partners​

• Concorde Career College
• Concorde Career Institute

Lincoln Educational Services Corporation​

• International Technical Institute
• Lincoln College of Technology
• Lincoln Technical Institute

Mark A. Gabis Trust​

• Daymar College

Mission Group Kansas, Inc.​

• Wright Business School
• Wright Career College

Premier Education Group L.P.​

• American College for Medical Careers
• Branford Hall Career Institute
• Hallmark Institute of Photography
• Hallmark University
• Harris School of Business
• Institute for Health Education
• Micropower Career Institute
• Suburban Technical School
• Salter College

Quad Partners LLC​

• Beckfield College
• Blue Cliff College
• Dorsey College

Remington University, Inc. (Remington College)​

• Remington College

Southern Technical Holdings, LLC​

• Southern Technical College

Star Career Academy​

• Star Career Academy

Sullivan and Cogliano Training Center, Inc.​

• Sullivan and Cogliano Training Centers

TCS Education System​

• Chicago School of Professional Psychology

Vatterott Educational Centers, Inc.​

• Court Reporting Institute of St Louis
• Vatterott College

Wilfred American Education Corp.​

• Robert Fiance Beauty Schools
• Robert Fiance Hair Design Institute
• Robert Fiance Institute of Florida
• Wilfred Academy
• Wilfred Academy of Beauty Culture
• Wilfred Academy of Hair & Beauty Culture

Willis Stein & Partners (ECA)​

• Brightwood Career Institute
• Brightwood College
• New England College of Business and Finance
• Virginia College

I used to drive by that Wright Career College all the time located here. Glad it's closed down now.

 

[Sadeesmom]

The willful ignorance here boggles my mind.

I don't think ed loans should be forgiven. If you signed for the loan, you signed for the loan. HOWEVER... I think ed loans should be made at simple interest. If you borrow $10000 at 5%, you should pay back $10,500, over time. STOP amortizing ed loans. STOP offering programs that allow you to pay less to begin with and more as the term progresses, effectively capitalizing interest. JUST STOP WITH THE EGREGIOUSLY GREEDY PROFIT-MAKING. (Oh wait, this is the USA... talk about a pipe dream). I would like to see the lenders review all outstanding loans. Look at the principal and interest rate ORIGINALLY signed for, calculate what would have been owed under those terms at simple interest, then compare that to what has been paid. If people still owe money, fine. If they don't, if they've overpaid due to years and years of predatory practices, then STOP. They are DONE. I'd like to think that the companies would pay back any overpayment above what was originally signed for, but we need to be realistic about some of this. The problem is, it won't happen. Lenders are making money hand over fist, and greed is the name of the game in the USA, so... no solutions, I guess.

I believe most student loans (at least all federal loans) already charge simple interest. The issue is that the monthly payment isn't usually enough to cover the interest, so it accumulates. The simple interest is charged only on the principle balance (not the accumulated interest), but because all of the interest isn't paid monthly, the principle doesn't decrease, so the balance only increases. Simple interest doesn't mean that in your example you would pay $500 total for the life of the loan, but rather $500/year until the principle goes below $10,000.
Income driven payments are a huge part of the problem here. If the loans were treated as car loans, mortgages, or most other loans, all interest plus a set percentage of the principle (2-3% minimum) would be the monthly payment, and the balance would gradually shrink. Eliminating the income driven repayment plans would solve this part of the problem, but that is not possible since so many would not be able to afford the payment. (Plus many choose this repayment option planning on getting the elusive forgiveness.)

It all goes back to where the resolution to the student loan crisis is in the prevention, not in the clean up afterward.

 

[LuvOrlando]

Oh boy, so many pages to read to catch up

 

[nw6675]

Oh boy, so many pages to read to catch up

You have not missed much.