Student Loans

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So far it looks like she will have a possible total of $20,000 in loans to go to a $200,000 college. My oldest, I would have not allowed her to do that. This one, she blows my mind on how hard she works and I have no doubt she will succeed after college and the loan will be a drop in the bucket.
So best case, hoping that her scholarships hold and tuition/fees don't increase, that $20,000 loan will become $80,000 across four years (if she finishes in 4 years). That's $800 a month. I don't know anyone who can handle that, fresh out of school. You also have to hope that the job market holds, that she doesn't need an advanced degree in her field, etc. THANKFULLY my smart girl said "how will I ever pay back $80K plus interest" and went to our state university instead. Still borrowed $25K for four years, but that's down to about $7K now (she graduated in 2015).
 
So best case, hoping that her scholarships hold and tuition/fees don't increase, that $20,000 loan will become $80,000 across four years (if she finishes in 4 years). That's $800 a month. I don't know anyone who can handle that, fresh out of school. You also have to hope that the job market holds, that she doesn't need an advanced degree in her field, etc. THANKFULLY my smart girl said "how will I ever pay back $80K plus interest" and went to our state university instead. Still borrowed $25K for four years, but that's down to about $7K now (she graduated in 2015).
Said looks like she'll have a possible $20k loan. She has $5000 for the first year. $5000x4 years is what I meant.
 
So best case, hoping that her scholarships hold and tuition/fees don't increase, that $20,000 loan will become $80,000 across four years (if she finishes in 4 years). That's $800 a month. I don't know anyone who can handle that, fresh out of school. You also have to hope that the job market holds, that she doesn't need an advanced degree in her field, etc. THANKFULLY my smart girl said "how will I ever pay back $80K plus interest" and went to our state university instead. Still borrowed $25K for four years, but that's down to about $7K now (she graduated in 2015).
My two oldest have been laying $1000 a month plus bonus money since graduation. Fortunately they don’t pay rent, but I think they could still manage.
 

Some random thoughts while reading (and not aimed at anyone in particular):

We live in a starter home that we never left. It’s a ranch on half an acre that we added an in-law apt and sunroom to. If we sold it tomorrow, we could easily get over $700,000 for it. That’s not because it’s a dazzling and super-desirable house, but rather because the real estate market in our area has gone absolutely crazy. The median price in our state just hit $610,000. I follow real estate where we live and people are getting over $500,000 for 1BR/1BA crappy little outdated cottages. (Another reason for young people who wish to stay local to keep their college costs down.) Just looked up the house I grew up in in the city on Zillow and it’s worth $1,000,000 - and they’d probably get more since it’s not actually for sale and those estimates tend to be low. Believe me, it’s decent, but nothing special, with little land and built in 1910, so old and likely outdated.

I work with lots of doctors, but the ones I work the closest with are newly out of school and still eating ramen. :laughing: They love it if we invite them to our shift meals. One night years ago I brought in a banana bread I’d baked and had all wrapped up in tinfoil in the nurse’s station. I came out of a patient room to find a group of residents (new doctors) had opened it up and half eaten it! Learned to hide my goodies after that. I know many of them live with roommates.

Not every HS offers dual enrollment. Our did not. My kids were average students, not academic superstars. DD took one AP course that she got credit for, which was helpful. I remember wondering at the time whether to “push them harder”, but we decided against it. DD had a friend who was being pushed and was having serious mental health issues. DH and I decided it was better to let them stay well-adjusted rather than create a lot of extra academic stress. These are things that each family has to decide for themselves.

Our state also doesn’t offer in-state tuition scholarships like some states do (other than one that I know of that rewards those students who score highest on our MCAS exams). College students here are faced with figuring out how to pay for the bulk of tuition in most cases unless they are very academically talented, poor, or belong to a protected class. Some may be fortunate to find discounts on tuition, and more power to them. We didn’t get any help other than small loans senior year and a couple of small HS scholarships.

Our state schools aren’t as cheap as some of the schools I’ve read about:

https://www.collegecalc.org/colleges/massachusetts/?view=all

Massachusetts Colleges, Cost and Affordability for 2022


How much does it cost to attend college in Massachusetts? The average annual in-state college tuition in Massachusetts was $28,558 for the 2020-2021 academic year. This is $13,637 higher than the U.S. average and ranks Massachusetts amongst the costliest as the 4th most expensive and 49th most affordable state or district to attend college. This is a change of $556 from the 2019-2020 average of $28,002 and represents a 1.99% annual increase.

As I said, mine chose to commute to school which made sense for them, and saved an enormous amount of money. On many previous threads we’ve hashed it out about whether that’s getting “the college experience” or not. My response to that is, Who cares? :lmao: Of course they got the college experience! But more importantly, they got their degrees in a way they could afford. I’m not sure we always have the luxury today of getting the traditional “college experience” if it’s going to cost an arm and a leg to get it, especially in student loans.

All this to say that not all of the tips offered here apply to everyone, although I am glad to see that some have such great opportunities and can take advantage of them. I’m not sure why our state does not other than probably because colleges are a big thing here; you might say it’s part of our state’s livelihood, so I’m sure that’s got something to do with it somehow.

Why live here if things are so expensive then? DH and I were born and brought up here - our life, work, family and friends are all here; it’s what we know and love. Not interested in starting over somewhere new. So we just deal with it. A couple of posters here have mentioned that Boston is a really great city, and it is. It’s also a great place to go to school, as [I and] mine did, as well. We wouldn’t trade that experience for anything. But we did have to find ways to keep costs down as much as we could, given the circumstances, and we did. We could’ve even more so had community colleges been involved, but that didn’t work out for either of mine because of their individual circumstances. (Saying this here so future college parents and students reading here understand it can be done with some creativity.)

A few mentioned teaching kids in HS, and parents, about how college costs and financing work. Our kids’ HS had those seminars, but I’m not sure they were well attended. It’s something many people really don’t want to think about. There’s so much pressure and people who may not have prepared as well as others did may feel somewhat deflated when they have to face the prospects. I’ve talked to a lot of these people to offer support, and lent out my books, etc. (One parent who comes to mind whose husband was career military had no idea how the GI Bill worked because she’d never looked into it. Not sure how it all worked out but hope they figured it out and it benefitted their college student.)

I mentioned earlier that I was completely on my own for college and had no clue, either, and it was hard. I played the work-two-or-three-jobs while attending school FT, changing majors, withdrawing from classes, etc., game, too (and not because I wasn’t “smart”, but because I was so ill-prepared and underprivileged, leaving home for good at 18), so it took me a long time to finish. Meanwhile my friends who were mostly settled in the business world were driving new cars, wearing nice clothes, buying homes and taking vacations, while I was still working every day like a dog, never having a day off, driving a rust bucket and trying to figure out how in the world I was going to finish, in a panic every time the bills came due. I had little choice but to stick it out, and I did. Of course now some of my friends are retired and snowbirding in FL while I’m still working like a dog, lol, so I guess getting behind the 8 ball at the outset did impact a lot in my life, and that’s what I didn’t want to happen to my own kids.

The system does need a major overhaul if it’s allowing parents and students to sign their lives away with excessive student loans. $10,000 is a nice gesture, but unless it’s going to people who have just a small amount of loans, I’m not sure it’s going to help all that much. I’m sad that this crisis has caused our younger generations to put off things like marriage and owning their own homes so much.

https://www.wsoctv.com/news/9-inves...g-a-house-because-of-student-debt/1011002846/

To parents who still have time to think this through, do your research and help your young people make good financial decisions for their futures - they’ll thank you later.
 
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Baloney. You don't know what you're talking about.
I prefer turkey, and i will let you be wrong !


Student Loan Forgiveness by State​

As of June 2022, 49 states and the District of Columbia offer at least one student loan forgiveness program. There are a total of 130 state-level student debt cancellation plans in the U.S. Texas has the most student loan forgiveness programs.4 North Dakota is the only state that does not currently have its own dedicated student debt cancellation options. These programs are subject to change or close at any time and states can offer new ones as well.
https://www.investopedia.com/student-loan-debt-by-state-5198562

you may send me a pm to apologize
 
I prefer turkey, and i will let you be wrong !


Student Loan Forgiveness by State​

As of June 2022, 49 states and the District of Columbia offer at least one student loan forgiveness program. There are a total of 130 state-level student debt cancellation plans in the U.S. Texas has the most student loan forgiveness programs.4 North Dakota is the only state that does not currently have its own dedicated student debt cancellation options. These programs are subject to change or close at any time and states can offer new ones as well.
https://www.investopedia.com/student-loan-debt-by-state-5198562

you may send me a pm to apologize
The "offers" are rarely truly available.
But it sounds great to some.
 
I prefer turkey, and i will let you be wrong !


Student Loan Forgiveness by State​

As of June 2022, 49 states and the District of Columbia offer at least one student loan forgiveness program. There are a total of 130 state-level student debt cancellation plans in the U.S. Texas has the most student loan forgiveness programs.4 North Dakota is the only state that does not currently have its own dedicated student debt cancellation options. These programs are subject to change or close at any time and states can offer new ones as well.
https://www.investopedia.com/student-loan-debt-by-state-5198562

you may send me a pm to apologize

They don't work. Please see my post about my sister and there's tons and tons of news stories about this. Note the programs can change or close at any time? That's insane. There's tons of catches--your loan might have qualified when you got it, but have you consolidated? Then you don't qualify and no one tells you or warns you. There are tons of loans that should have been forgiven already but haven't been. The system is set up to get you to not qualify for the forgiveness you've been promised no matter what state you live in.

https://www.npr.org/2022/06/14/1104601630/public-service-student-loan-forgiveness
https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2022/04/20/student-loan-income-driven-repayment/
https://www.highereddive.com/news/r...-of-student-loans-hadnt-been-forgiven/622421/
 
I have also read that it’s very difficult to get the actual forgiveness. Eilonwy, I’m glad your sister finally worked it out!

Just got out of the shower, and realized I forgot to mention this above - I’ve taken a quite a few disadvantaged students on community college tours to help them see it’s manageable and maybe get them started. It’s worked in a couple of cases. I’ve also helped quite a few people figure out how to become nurses, including a lot of aides over the years who were working all night and staying up all day with babies trying to make ends meet, and that continues to this day. Sometimes people just need a little help trying to put a realistic plan in place. It may be hard to approach people, but they do welcome the help, knowing that someone cares.
 
I think you’re painting with a pretty broad brush here. Many students do not have parents who will help guide them or have any knowledge of the inner workings of finances or college. There are many first generation college students with very little guidance. Even if you’ve navigate it yourself the world is completely different and college costs are insane today. I will say for my daughter the guidance counselor at her school tried but was of very little help. In all honesty neither her nor I knew how to navigate everything and we got very lucky. A lot of kids from her school did not get so lucky. It’s so happened that at the time she submitted her applications the scholarship committees happen to like how she wrote, the story she had to tell, they could connect with her, and they liked what they saw on her résumé. When she went for interviews they happen to find her personally charming but they could’ve easily gone the other way. It really can be luck of the draw when it comes to bigger scholarships. Yes she absolutely worked very hard but so did many other students who did not get selected. Some of it comes down to sheer dumb luck. Being in the right state with the right person reading your application at the right moment.

My parents did not teach me great financial advice. Money was not spoken of in their families and so they never taught me. I’ve had to learn the hard way. Finance was not taught at school and still isn’t in many places including my own daughter’s school. I don’t know any of her friends or peers that are spending lavishly on cars or expensive vacations. They can’t afford it. If anyone is spending lavishly- it’s the parents and they are instilling that in their child. I was never taught about opportunity cost until I enrolled my homeschooled son in a personal finance course.

A lot of times people just don’t know. And if you don’t know you don’t always know what you’re missing. One of the best ways to combat this would be for a personal finance class to be required for every graduating high school student. College bound or not.
I agree that guidance is necessary and helpful - but sadly our state requires a personal finance class in high school- but in our district, it was taught by history teachers who have no financial training. I read through the worksheets and assignments when my kids took the class, and 80% of the information was wrong.
 
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Honestly, a lot of information that is considered mainstream wasn’t that helpful for me (for my kids) because I think a lot of it is geared toward things that didn’t or weren’t going to pertain to us. (I knew we weren’t going to take out parent loans, for instance.) We were really trying to think outside the box. I think that’s why I found Debt Free U so helpful. It was written by a young man from MA who was in college (UMass) at the time he wrote it, and was coming from a place that I could relate to more. Thank you to whoever it was that posted that here, as it was probably one of the most helpful things I read. That and the Jenna Levine article, which someone also posted here (and is now 11 yrs old!).

https://www.amazon.com/Debt-Free-Outstanding-Education-Scholarships-Mooching/dp/1591842980

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/jenna-levine-26-graduate-_b_823081
 
This has already started to happen but has a long way to go and the thought is easing an entire generation's debt will actually help the economy because instead of struggling just to make loan payments they will have the freedom to invest in things like the housing market, etc. Since people starting raising this issue a number of schools (including ivy league) have offered slots where if you make under a certain amount of money tuition is automatically waived. That's a HUGE deal, though I think it does need to be pushed farther. Why are colleges and universities allowed to sit on huge endowments and then raise prices ridiculously every year? There needs to be more oversight.
They also don’t pay much in taxes on those endowments.
 
I agree that guidance is necessary and helpful - but sadly our state requires a personal finance class - taught by history teachers who have no financial training. I read through the worksheets and assignments, and 80% of the information was wrong.
Yikes that's pretty bad.
 
They don't work. Please see my post about my sister and there's tons and tons of news stories about this. Note the programs can change or close at any time? That's insane. There's tons of catches--your loan might have qualified when you got it, but have you consolidated? Then you don't qualify and no one tells you or warns you. There are tons of loans that should have been forgiven already but haven't been. The system is set up to get you to not qualify for the forgiveness you've been promised no matter what state you live in.

https://www.npr.org/2022/06/14/1104601630/public-service-student-loan-forgiveness
https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2022/04/20/student-loan-income-driven-repayment/
https://www.highereddive.com/news/r...-of-student-loans-hadnt-been-forgiven/622421/

Yep. The cynic in me says that's deliberate, a way to get people to earn necessary degrees and take necessary career roles by dangling a carrot they're never actually going to be allowed to catch. we've talked about a lot of mistakes that students make, but that's one I've heard pretty often that I don't think has been mentioned here: choosing a path in whole or in part based on loan forgiveness plans. Without the promise of that benefit, how many of the people struggling now with their loans would have made different choices to maximize their earning power?
 
They don't work. Please see my post about my sister and there's tons and tons of news stories about this. Note the programs can change or close at any time? That's insane. There's tons of catches--your loan might have qualified when you got it, but have you consolidated? Then you don't qualify and no one tells you or warns you. There are tons of loans that should have been forgiven already but haven't been. The system is set up to get you to not qualify for the forgiveness you've been promised no matter what state you live in.

https://www.npr.org/2022/06/14/1104601630/public-service-student-loan-forgiveness
https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2022/04/20/student-loan-income-driven-repayment/
https://www.highereddive.com/news/r...-of-student-loans-hadnt-been-forgiven/622421/
Programs from the state will never charge you….
if you sister got charge she got scammed
 
Yes, that's what the program says it will do.

Please read the other links where it's not that straightforward and the agencies even admit sometimes they don't track things correctly. My sister has worked in public service and has paid back her loan for 18 years. 8 more than she should have.
 
Oh and here is the link to the federal program….
yes some rules apply, you degree most be useful for public service and they expect that you pay some of your loan back before the rest of us have to pay it for you.

https://studentaid.gov/manage-loans/forgiveness-cancellation/public-service
What people are trying to tell you is how the program was sold to people, how it ended up working out, is not in reality what happened. So just posting what the guidelines are isn't the point. Have you truly not been hearing in recent years the awfulness of this program?

Back in 2018 NPR did a spotlight on it and at that time data from the Department of Education reflected that 99% of those who attempted to get loan forgiveness were denied.

"Borrowers would notify their loan servicers of their intent to enroll in the program, then make it years into the repayment process before being told they didn't yet qualify — because they had the wrong loan, the wrong repayment plan or the wrong employer."

"Sometimes servicers would be aware of a borrower's status as a public servant — active-duty military, for example — but not tell the borrower about the possibility of PSLF."

"For borrowers who needed to consolidate their loans to qualify for forgiveness, Frotman found, a process that should have taken 30 days often took much longer. Servicer employees appeared undertrained, uninformed and prone to a litany of paperwork mistakes."

"GAO's investigation found a communication breakdown between the Education Department and FedLoan, the contractor that officially handles PSLF."

And that's just a small bit. After that NPR story ran people wrote in to them. Here's a link for that https://www.npr.org/2018/10/18/6584...letters-about-public-service-loan-forgiveness
 
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