Student Loans

[MrsPete]

at least she got the education appropriate to qualify for a public school teaching position! i know some that are decade #2 under massive private religious school debt who found out they only qualified to teach in that school's private schools b/c of what they majored in. they earned a degree and went through a 'teaching program'-but not a degree or program that met that or nearby state's public school credentialing criteria. it was there in the school catalog but they ignored it b/c that's where they wanted to go/where generations of family had gone (and were generational in massive student debt never spoken of to the younger ones).

Oh, I think she received an excellent education, and I know she passed her teaching exams -- I mean, she's licensed to teach in our state. But it cost her so much more than she understood as a high school senior. She borrowed not only for tuition -- she borrowed enough to fly home for holidays, etc. Sad thing is, the high school she attended /where she lives is only 20 minutes down the road from a major state university; she could've lived at home and qualified for the same job for a fraction of what she paid. Even if she'd borrowed for ALL her tuition at the state school down the road, by now she'd be free and clear and own her own life.

I don't know whether her parents were still paying for their own educations. I know their family was kinda poor, but I thought it was because they had so many kids and only one income.

My own kids chose careers in which the school doesn't matter -- as long as they qualify for a professional license at the end of their education. One of my girls was briefly smitten with Clemson, but when I talked to her about the difference in the cost /out-of-state prices /no difference in employability in the end -- well, she's her mother's practical child.

 

[Kestryl]

I'd say being on scholarship in college ROTC is a job. They are required to do so much, and some of them get a monthly stipend as a part of their compensation.

Similarly, I'd say being a college athlete is a job. They're required to practice, attend study halls, etc. And they're paid in tuition.

I was an RA -- Resident Advisor -- in college. That was a job, and I was paid with housing. Worked out great for me because it was tax-free.

Oh, for sure! ROTC, athletes, and RAs seem to be a full time job on their own, if not more!

 

[MrsPete]

Oh, for sure! ROTC, athletes, and RAs seem to be a full time job on their own, if not more!

But they are flexible jobs that work great for college students.

Honestly, being an RA was the single best thing I did (financially) in college. Back then it paid a free dorm room, 1/2 in-state tuition and a free on-the-wall phone. And lots of free meals /activities I couldn't have afforded on my own -- like laser tag and white water rafting.

 

[JaxDad]

I went to school on a ROTC scholarship. There’s no way I could have afforded it without something. It did not include room and board, so I still had to work part-time and summers. I didn’t take out any student loans, although I did get to pay for my wife’s.

 

[barkley]

Oh, I think she received an excellent education, and I know she passed her teaching exams -- I mean, she's licensed to teach in our state. But it cost her so much more than she understood as a high school senior. She borrowed not only for tuition -- she borrowed enough to fly home for holidays, etc. Sad thing is, the high school she attended /where she lives is only 20 minutes down the road from a major state university; she could've lived at home and qualified for the same job for a fraction of what she paid. Even if she'd borrowed for ALL her tuition at the state school down the road, by now she'd be free and clear and own her own life.

totally get it. what kills me is beyond being SO MUCH more expensive than the state school for tuition-the particular school i'm familiar with mandates than anyone under 23 years of age MUST dorm so plan on paying top dollar (for decades to come) for the duration of your attendance.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

I read you entire post. I didn't address the whole get an $18/hr job at Lowe's and pay as you go scenario because it is not based in reality. Most Lowe's aren't starting people at $18/hr. If they do, they are likely in a city where $18/hr an hour is insufficient for one to afford rent, groceries, gas, utilities, etc, in addition to the out of pocket education expenses you're suggesting.

But again - why is a K-12 education considered a right, but a college education is somehow a privilege?

Because the world needs ditch diggers, too
Because without a collage degree it is possible to get a 6 figure job.
Because, people agree to be bound be the terms of a promissory note. Then whine when their basket weaving degree can’t pay the bills

 

[MrsPete]

Because, people agree to be bound be the terms of a promissory note. Then whine when their basket weaving degree can’t pay the bills

Yeah, and the information is available -- with the advent of the internet, the information is much more available than it was to past generations -- but 17-18 year olds just won't hear it.

Here's another example of high-school senior think -- as I said earlier, I've taught high school seniors three decades, so I have lots of examples: One of my favorite students was dead-set on going to SCAD (Savannah College of Art & Design), which is known as one of the worst ROI (Return on Investments) in the world of higher education. Her parents, who had saved for years and years and years and could pay -- were against SCAD. She attacked the problem in a good way: she decided to search for information to prove to her parents that she was making a good choice.

She read online that the average person in her anticipated major earns $10,000 - 110,000/year after graduation.
She believed that meant a person "who really got out there and hustled" could earn more than $110,000, and a person who'd been at it a while /had gained experience and a reputation absolutely would earn more.
This is how kids think; they read a fact, and they adjust it to fit their own belief.

End of this story: She ended up going to SCAD, but she was not able to find a job in the art world. She works as a church secretary. Bad ROI.

 

[RamblingMad]

What I am finding is that most of the new hires are kids with rich parents. I'm seeing less income diversity in university grads today, and I blame the ridiculous cost of university.

 

[mom2rtk]

What I am finding is that most of the new hires are kids with rich parents. I'm seeing less income diversity in university grads today, and I blame the ridiculous cost of university.

Just curious. When you hire someone, how do you know what their parents' income is?

 

[Robbie Cottam]

Yeah, and the information is available -- with the advent of the internet, the information is much more available than it was to past generations -- but 17-18 year olds just won't hear it.

Here's another example of high-school senior think -- as I said earlier, I've taught high school seniors three decades, so I have lots of examples: One of my favorite students was dead-set on going to SCAD (Savannah College of Art & Design), which is known as one of the worst ROI (Return on Investments) in the world of higher education. Her parents, who had saved for years and years and years and could pay -- were against SCAD. She attacked the problem in a good way: she decided to search for information to prove to her parents that she was making a good choice.

She read online that the average person in her anticipated major earns $10,000 - 110,000/year after graduation.
She believed that meant a person "who really got out there and hustled" could earn more than $110,000, and a person who'd been at it a while /had gained experience and a reputation absolutely would earn more.
This is how kids think; they read a fact, and they adjust it to fit their own belief.

End of this story: She ended up going to SCAD, but she was not able to find a job in the art world. She works as a church secretary. Bad ROI.

Yes, that is where HER parents should have said “ honey, we know your an adult, and we aren’t going to stop you, Buutttt, what is your plan to make a living if you end up making closer to the 10k number?

Parents, have to continue to parent their children into there mid to late 20s.

Clearly, a lot of parents have usurped that responsibility and delegated it to the internet.

I’m sorry to say, it is not my fault, or responsibility to bail them out.

Any of you that think “ the right thing to do” is to help them, well I’m trying to pay for law school, and my wife needs her PhD….

You can make the check payable to cash …..

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Clearly, a lot of parents have usurped that responsibility and delegated it to the internet.

The irony is strong with this comment.

 

[RamblingMad]

Just curious. When you hire someone, how do you know what their parents' income is?

You don't. But you can get queues from how they dress and talk. If they live with their parents, you can get an idea from their address. Rich kids are more likely to have their own apartment than working class kids too. Of course, if they went out of state for school, then there are exceptions. But they most likely went to school under scholarship.

Once you hire them, you can figure out where they grew up and what their parents do for a living.
It's really not that difficult. I'm not seeing kids come from working class neighbors as much as I have in the past. University itself has become a class barrier due to its cost. This was a problem when I was a kid. It's a bigger one now.

 

[kymom99]

Agree, and -- in a perfect world -- that would happen automatically. People choosing to major in education would say, "I am likely to earn ___ , so I should beware of taking on big debts."

But kids don't always think logically or long-term. Sad story: Years ago I tried to "talk sense to" one of my high school seniors who was dead set on attending an expensive, private religious school halfway across the country. Her parents are both graduates, they met while they were students, and she grew up on stories of that school. She flew out there over a school break and after that she'd never even talk about another school. Thing is, she's the oldest of something like six kids, and her father is a pastor. So she was paying for school herself. She borrowed BIG and became a teacher -- I talked and talked to her about the financial reality, and she just couldn't hear what I said. She was sure-sure-sure she'd get some scholarship money, that teacher salaries would increase, that she'd marry a guy who'd help pay off that debt. Nope to all of it. Now she's one of my colleagues, and she understands what I said perfectly -- but it's too late. She lives at home and will realistically be paying for most of her career. The one positive for her: as a teacher, she'll have a pension, so she will be able to retire.

I've taught high school seniors for three decades, and MANY of them don't have a good grasp of what they're doing when they take out loans. Real things kids have told me over the years:
- I won't have any problem paying back these loans. I'm going into (insert high paying profession here), and it won't be hard at all.
- I know I could go to an in-state school /avoid loans, but I've always had this vision of myself going to school up North, walking to school in the snow in a little pea coat, hat and scarf.
- I fell in love with ___ school when I saw the pool tables in the student union! I absolutely have to go there, and if it means I have to borrow, I'll do it. Alternate: granite countertops in the on-campus apartments

And the most common thing kids have said to me about borrowing:
- I know I'm going to be sorry later for taking out loans, but I really, really want to live on my own right now, and this is the easiest way to do it.

Eh, you're probably right in most cases ... but some people borrow from the government AND also go for private loans.
As for being adults when they go to grad school, a kid who goes straight from high school to undergrad, then straight into grad school IS legally an adult ... but may not have actually supported himself in an adult manner; that is, he may still be on his parents insurance, may never have held a full-time job.

This is ABSOLUTELY an accurate appraisal of my high school seniors. They care a lot about their dorm rooms, the roommate with whom they'll live for a year, the on-campus fast-food that can be bought with their meal plan, whether freshmen can have a car on campus, and free on-campus activities.

But student loans? Dude, that'll all fall into place.

This is a pretty accurate appraisal -- except that high schools absolutely are NOT preaching "degree at any cost". High schools are really pushing community college /trades because that's a much cheaper /quicker entry route to middle-class adulthood. And because we as a society have a real need for people in these jobs.

Thing is, "smart kids" refuse to listen -- they only hear college-college-college because they see that as "the best choice", and they aren't settling for second-best! That's for other people who aren't as special, as smart.

Anything that's given to you was taken from someone else.

Because most of us have no idea how that degree could possibly be useful in the real world.

Agree about the medical debt. My husband spent ONE night in the hospital a few months ago -- when all was said and done (doctors, physical therapy after), it cost us almost $10,000 . My just-out-of-college daughter went to the ER /had to have a small outpatient surgery -- it cost her two month's pay, and that's tough for someone who's in an entry level job.

I'm with you. I worked 2-3 jobs at a time to get through college and lived in less-than-safe places with more roommates than the management knew about. It was rough. Then when I finished college, I was super-poor for the first couple years. BUT I did it. I paid my debts, and I paid for my kids' educations.

I'm done -- and I'm unapologetic about it.

When I was in college in the 80s, almost everyone had a part-time job during the school year /full time during the summer. Those jobs varied pretty widely -- some people worked just a couple hours a week, others worked full time +.

BUT my kids were in college 2012-2020, and the majority of their school friends didn't work. At all.

A friend of mine had her son take out loans for his entire education. She told him that if he graduated on time, they'd pay the loans off the day after graduation -- if he spun his wheels and goofed off, well, the loans were in his name. She knew how to motivate her kid; he graduated on time with a profitable degree.

False.

My oldest is a RN, and she says about half the nurses with whom she works have "only" an associates degree (plus a nursing license, obviously). Those people are highly employable -- they're very highly employable -- but they don't "move up the ladder".

My daughter has a BS from a 4-year university (graduated in 2016), and she has worked her way up from Clinical Nurse 1 to Clinical Nurse 3 (highest category her employer offers without a masters -- she had to complete an original study and defend it to earn that 3). She has left what she calls "Bedside Care" and is in "Nurse Management". That's an opportunity that won't come to the people with associate's degrees.

It's no secret: Elementary - high school grades are heavily correlated with parental income, which is heavily correlated with parental education.

Sure, a kid "from the wrong side of the tracks" can make it big -- but he or she must work harder to do it, and usually it happens because some adult really helps that kiddo. I personally was one of those kids; my dad abandoned us, and my mom was very caught up in trying to support too many kids after a decade-out-of-work /only a high school diploma. But my grandmother was always there for me -- she didn't have money to give me (she was giving all she had to my mom to buy us food), but she gave me advice and guidance when my mom had no time for it. (In her defense, she was putting out fires all the time.)

Also, we have to accept that the "wrong side of the tracks kid" probably won't go as far as the kid who was born in a more enriched environment. I've just retired, and I've done well, but I can say with 100% certainty that I would've done more /done better if my dad hadn't left /all those things hadn't derailed my childhood. I'm happy enough knowing that I got out of poverty and gave my kids much more.

Absolutely college CAN be done -- even now -- on your own. Doesn't mean you can go to big-name U, live on campus, graduate in four years -- but it can be done. It requires sacrifice and scraping by and doing things you'd prefer not to do.

I worked my butt off to get through school, and -- at the time -- I thought I was doing everything possible. Looking back, I see a couple options that could've made my college years easier /better, but 18-22 year old me didn't see them then.

We DO teacher personal finance at my high school -- it's not called personal finance; rather, it's a part of Civics. The problem is, the kids don't see it as something pertinent to their lives, so they don't listen.
- Who'd ever spend more than they earn? What an idiot. They're all going to make big bucks and will be able to pay their bills easily.
- In 10th grade when kids take this class, they're prone to talking about their plans to become a singer, have a penthouse in New York, an apartment in downtown Paris and a mansion in Malibu.
- Even those who are not dreaming of unlikely fame don't understand how hard it can be to qualify for /get a well-paying job. For example, I'm thinking about a student of mine who was very average academically, who planned to go into the military after high school. One day he told me he'd done some research, and he'd decided what kind of Air Force pilot he wanted to be -- he was going for the Blackhawk Helicoptors. I didn't tell him, of course, that it's really hard to get a pilot slot of any type. Poor kid -- the Air Force didn't even take him.

Yes, Engineering is a perfect example of this -- LOADS of my students go to college saying they're going into Engineering, and they figure out pretty quickly that they can't hang with the big boys. I'm married to an Engineer, and -- to make it in that program -- you have to not only be good at math, you have to be the best in the class and grasp the concept even before the teacher finishes talking. But high school kids don't get that.

Add in that they're living away from home for the first time, and the temptation to skip classes is pretty strong. The high school C-student gets into college (somewhere), but he doesn't have the skills to stick it out in college.

And yes to illness, accidents, etc. Four years is a long time and includes a lot of moving parts -- so many things can happen.

Oh, yes. And we don't help this in high school. We tell them, "If you miss more than 8 days in a class, you won't get credit!" And then Admin gives them credit. We tell them, "This project counts 30% of your grade! You can't pass this class without this project!" And then Admin makes us extend the deadline or offer an alternative grade. No wonder they don't believe anything we say.

Yeah, having taught in the public schools for three decades, I know exactly 0 teachers who've had their loans forgiven -- and I did teach in a Title 1 School for a while.

Same number of students who've earned those red-headed, left-handed, descended from this family name scholarships.

Agree, but kids don't "get it". I have an article on student loans that I've been using in class for years. Every year students read this article and ask the same questions:

- You mean, even if you have financial need, you have to pay back a loan?
- You mean, if you borrow money and then you do everything right, you have to pay it back?
- You mean, if you leave school and don't finish your degree, you still have to pay it back?

Totally agree. No one option is going to work for everyone, but a college student who is physically healthy and has no dependents can do SOMETHING to get through college for less money.

My comment is certainly not false. If you looked at the job postings at the hospital network where my sister works, they clearly say they require a BSN and MSN. (I did look.) So when I say they want a masters, that’s what they want. The people who already worked there are offered compensation for advancing their degrees to the desired level, although my sister did not take them up on it. She’s too close to retirement. I’d be interested to know where your daughter works where half of the nurses have an associates degree.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

False.

My oldest is a RN, and she says about half the nurses with whom she works have "only" an associates degree (plus a nursing license, obviously). Those people are highly employable -- they're very highly employable -- but they don't "move up the ladder".

Patients are increasingly seeking out their care from Magnet hospitals (deemed such as shown to recruit and retain nurses best) where voluntary standards of nursing excellence are maintained and successful outcomes (improved care and satisfaction and lower mortality rates) are proven to be higher in large part due to the increased number (80%) of nurses with BSN or higher.

 

[kymom99]

Wow, this thread.

I’m going to take it on another tangent. My son graduated high school in 2017. He had 15 college credits in history which he used in college to get a minor in history. Dual credit courses weren’t as common yet when he was in high school, at least not around here. That whole concept was just getting off the ground. He took 2 history classes for dual credit and had one AP class as well.

When he went to college he said it was way easier than high school. He held a 4.0 all 4 years. I’m not complaining about that because I know many students go to college who are not prepared. I was pretty satisfied with the education he received in high school. He didn’t have a 4.0 in high school although he did stay busier with outside activities than he did in college. Now…..the coursework his college degree required wasn’t as difficult as, say, someone in premed, but I still have to wonder about the rigor of the education universities are providing.

Taking this further, my grandson is a sophomore in high school. He already took a dual credit class last year and will be taking 2 more this year. He is a smart young man, but at this rate he could finish high school with enough credits for an associates at the very least since he is also taking AP classes. I know this is becoming more common. But if a 14 year old can take a college level class, is it possible the material is not as rigorous as it could be for a college class? Isn’t the purpose of taking general education courses in college to dive deeper into the topics as people mature and develop more critical thinking skills? It seems like the whole system is working to push people to obtain higher level degrees. And of course these degrees cost more.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Wow, this thread.

I’m going to take it on another tangent. My son graduated high school in 2017. He had 15 college credits in history which he used in college to get a minor in history. Dual credit courses weren’t as common yet when he was in high school, at least not around here. That whole concept was just getting off the ground. He took 2 history classes for dual credit and had one AP class as well.

When he went to college he said it was way easier than high school. He held a 4.0 all 4 years. I’m not complaining about that because I know many students go to college who are not prepared. I was pretty satisfied with the education he received in high school. He didn’t have a 4.0 in high school although he did stay busier with outside activities than he did in college. Now…..the coursework his college degree required wasn’t as difficult as, say, someone in premed, but I still have to wonder about the rigor of the education universities are providing.

Taking this further, my grandson is a sophomore in high school. He already took a dual credit class last year and will be taking 2 more this year. He is a smart young man, but at this rate he could finish high school with enough credits for an associates at the very least since he is also taking AP classes. I know this is becoming more common. But if a 14 year old can take a college level class, is it possible the material is not as rigorous as it could be for a college class? Isn’t the purpose of taking general education courses in college to dive deeper into the topics as people mature and develop more critical thinking skills? It seems like the whole system is working to push people to obtain higher level degrees. And of course these degrees cost more.

I think this very much depends on the majors and the existing lower ed schools one came from plus individual professors. Some professors I had seemed like they made it their mission to grade the hardest of hardest of hardest unnecessarily. But then I took a conceptual issues in psychology course that was debate format and tests were essays and you could opt to retake the test after a class discussion if you wanted to see if you could improve your score. Now that course wasn't particularly difficult per se but it was highly intellectual. Then you have courses that are strictly test based where your grade comes from then courses where it's papers only then ones where it's a mixture.

There's also differences in college since a lot of the say so ends up with the professor. I had a psychology course that was primarily about the various chemicals in the brain and how they interact a mixture of biology and psychology. That course was based strictly on 5 tests with the lowest being dropped. It was a no excuse course meant to be fair to everyone. I unfortunately ended up with food poisoning and was in the hospital. I missed the last test before finals. Could I retake it? No. It counted as the dropped test. In high school that would have been unlikely to have been the case.

Throughout my variety of psychology and sociology classes as well as other classes like Western Civ, Chem, etc it was just a different level than high school. The breadth of topics and the nitty grittyness even in the most basic Psych 101 and Sociology 101 was vastly different than anything high school could offer and there wasn't a huge ton of that covered in high school (well mythology was so were classic plays and all but it was a more amped up level..Western Civ wasn't even offered unless you were a sophomore and above when I was there).

For psychology at my alma mater most of your specialized courses began at level 300 and above so typically junior level and you had to be accepted into the Department of Psychology which didn't happen until you completed specific courses with a specific GPA level and above, designed this way to weed out people who think psychology would just be fluff fun (I'm sure other majors did it this way).

As for a 4.0 I wouldn't be able to presume about your son's intellect but it's not often that someone who wasn't a 4.0 student to get 4.0 for all 4 years of college so perhaps at the college he attended he had more fluid teachers in terms of their grading.

For your grandson is it dual credits and being taught by a college professor or a different classes taught online or just college credits. I took french in high school for college credit, I did that for multiple years. All it was was me technically enrolling as a student in the Community College and paying a fee. All the forms were done at high school. Nothing was different, I was in the same class as everyone else. Now that did give me a leg up on my language requirements for my BS degree allowing me to bypass several semesters of french when I got to college.

Admittedly there were some repeats from high school. Like in my Expressions in Youth Rebellion English course we read To Kill a Mockingbird..which of course many have read that already and I actually still had my annotated version from high school but we also watched Easy Rider and no way would that have been a topic discussed in high school.

 

[NotUrsula]

Yeah, and the information is available -- with the advent of the internet, the information is much more available than it was to past generations -- but 17-18 year olds just won't hear it.

Here's another example of high-school senior think -- as I said earlier, I've taught high school seniors three decades, so I have lots of examples: One of my favorite students was dead-set on going to SCAD (Savannah College of Art & Design), which is known as one of the worst ROI (Return on Investments) in the world of higher education. Her parents, who had saved for years and years and years and could pay -- were against SCAD. She attacked the problem in a good way: she decided to search for information to prove to her parents that she was making a good choice.

She read online that the average person in her anticipated major earns $10,000 - 110,000/year after graduation.
She believed that meant a person "who really got out there and hustled" could earn more than $110,000, and a person who'd been at it a while /had gained experience and a reputation absolutely would earn more.
This is how kids think; they read a fact, and they adjust it to fit their own belief.

End of this story: She ended up going to SCAD, but she was not able to find a job in the art world. She works as a church secretary. Bad ROI.

Not that it will help your students as you're now retired, but if anyone else has a kid who is looking for real ROI numbers, steer them directly to the particular college's Office of Institutional Research (every school that accepts any type of government funding will have one.) They keep extensive and up-to-date numbers on that sort of thing for their own students and graduates, and they are a lot more localized and accurate with regard to ROI than the ridiculously broad ranges that come from the Occupational Outlook Handbook.

Still won't help if said kid is being willfully blind, but for one who really wants to make the right decision, it's hugely useful info.

 

[kymom99]

I think this very much depends on the majors and the existing lower ed schools one came from plus individual professors. Some professors I had seemed like they made it their mission to grade the hardest of hardest of hardest unnecessarily. But then I took a conceptual issues in psychology course that was debate format and tests were essays and you could opt to retake the test after a class discussion if you wanted to see if you could improve your score. Now that course wasn't particularly difficult per se but it was highly intellectual. Then you have courses that are strictly test based where your grade comes from then courses where it's papers only then ones where it's a mixture.

There's also differences in college since a lot of the say so ends up with the professor. I had a psychology course that was primarily about the various chemicals in the brain and how they interact a mixture of biology and psychology. That course was based strictly on 5 tests with the lowest being dropped. It was a no excuse course meant to be fair to everyone. I unfortunately ended up with food poisoning and was in the hospital. I missed the last test before finals. Could I retake it? No. It counted as the dropped test. In high school that would have been unlikely to have been the case.

Throughout my variety of psychology and sociology classes as well as other classes like Western Civ, Chem, etc it was just a different level than high school. The breadth of topics and the nitty grittyness even in the most basic Psych 101 and Sociology 101 was vastly different than anything high school could offer and there wasn't a huge ton of that covered in high school (well mythology was so were classic plays and all but it was a more amped up level..Western Civ wasn't even offered unless you were a sophomore and above when I was there).

For psychology at my alma mater most of your specialized courses began at level 300 and above so typically junior level and you had to be accepted into the Department of Psychology which didn't happen until you completed specific courses with a specific GPA level and above, designed this way to weed out people who think psychology would just be fluff fun (I'm sure other majors did it this way).

As for a 4.0 I wouldn't be able to presume about your son's intellect but it's not often that someone who wasn't a 4.0 student to get 4.0 for all 4 years of college so perhaps at the college he attended he had more fluid teachers in terms of their grading.

For your grandson is it dual credits and being taught by a college professor or a different classes taught online or just college credits. I took french in high school for college credit, I did that for multiple years. All it was was me technically enrolling as a student in the Community College and paying a fee. All the forms were done at high school. Nothing was different, I was in the same class as everyone else. Now that did give me a leg up on my language requirements for my BS degree allowing me to bypass several semesters of french when I got to college.

Admittedly there were some repeats from high school. Like in my Expressions in Youth Rebellion English course we read To Kill a Mockingbird..which of course many have read that already and I actually still had my annotated version from high school but we also watched Easy Rider and no way would that have been a topic discussed in high school.

Agreed that some majors are more difficult.

My son went to a private high school. The same one I went to as a matter of fact. I served on the school board and felt that expectations were high, otherwise I wouldn’t have paid to send him there. He took AP and honors classes as well as dual credit. He always had a lot of homework. His unweighted GPA was about 3.7. ACT was 29. He never could get that elusive 30. His dual credit was taught by a teacher from the high school through a local university. We had to pay a small amount and the university approved the teacher. So I’m not surprised he carried a 4.0 in college. He’s not one of those exceptionally smart people, but he enjoys learning.

As far as my grandson, I’m not sure about the particulars of his dual credit classes. In our area, it’s common for kids to actually go to a campus to take classes, but I do know he’s not doing that. They could be online. I’ll have to ask him.

I just feel like if so many kids can get all these college credits in high school, are we making college too easy?

 

[gmi3804]

Like many things in this country, people (not just politicians) want to treat the symptoms instead of curing the disease.

“Ya know, it seems to me like we're the only nation in the world, that waits 'til they get into a war, before we start getting ready for it.”

 

[barkley]

You don't. But you can get queues from how they dress and talk. If they live with their parents, you can get an idea from their address. Rich kids are more likely to have their own apartment than working class kids too. Of course, if they went out of state for school, then there are exceptions. But they most likely went to school under scholarship.

Once you hire them, you can figure out where they grew up and what their parents do for a living.
It's really not that difficult. I'm not seeing kids come from working class neighbors as much as I have in the past. University itself has become a class barrier due to its cost. This was a problem when I was a kid. It's a bigger one now.

i can only hope you are not being serious in this posting otherwise you may be grossly misjudging these 'kids' and their parents. my zip code is not an indicator of my income (wasn't when i grew up in one of the most expensive and desirable areas in the world, isn't now just b/c i bought before property values quintupled over a matter of years), i hope being a younger retiree due to a disability doesn't color your impression of a parent or a their child's worth and social status. having an apartment is exclusive to rich kids? tell that to all the working class kids who have been in them since year 2 of college b/c they can't afford the dorms and commuting from home is not an option.

all these judgments-why not get to know the individuals and just leave it at that.