Student Loans

[EilonwyWanderer]

I had to pay for my education and I will glad pay for others to get out of the mire of debt a broken system has left them in. It's called compassion and wanting to leave the next generation in a better place.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Most Everyone has affordable options. Many just do not choose them. The university five miles from my house has tuition and fees of $2000 per semester. Kids just want their degrees to come from more prestigious schools, so these types of colleges are looked down on. As are trade schools and community colleges. Kids could start out at these cheaper schools and then transfer to to a more expensive, prestigious school. And cut their college costs almost in half.

I worked with someone who came out of school with $250,000K in debt (for a BS in Nursing). It was painful to watch. Always exhausted (and trying to stay awake). Joined the military reserve to get some of the debt forgiven, which I think it was only around $50K. So in addition to a full time job in a regular hospital, every third weekend they had to go to work on a military base, too. One day I watched them nearly cry because they’d gotten a last minute text from their commanding officer that required a different uniform than the one they had with them. So instead of leaving work after a long day already and going right to the military base, they had to go home (an hour in a different direction, in traffic) to go to the dry cleaner to get the other uniform, then head down to the base after that. Their choice to go to the prestigious school instead of State U for the same degree impacted their quality of life in a big way, and for a long time.

I’ve talked to a surprising number of people with a similar amount of debt for a bachelors degree because they wanted to go to certain prestigious schools. These are choices that people make. I would not want to live with that kind of college debt. It’s honestly the type of debt that would be a ball and chain for a lifetime, practically, imho.

OTOH I work with a lot of young people who thought things through and made choices to go wherever they could to get the degree and keep costs low. Some of them have started to buy homes at 22 or 23 yrs old already; one even bought a multi-family home and has rent coming in, and has almost all her debt paid off. She works a lot of OT to do it, and is a super hard worker. I give these people a lot of credit. Besides, nobody really cares where they went to school. In Nursing, patients care more about having someone who is caring and attentive, as well as competent, and that doesn’t come from the school, necessarily, it’s a personal value.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

I had to pay for my education and I will glad pay for others to get out of the mire of debt a broken system has left them in. It's called compassion and wanting to leave the next generation in a better place.

So what lesson are you teaching the next generation....... Someone will always clean up your mess?
There is a lot to be learned in failure. Yes, no one wants to fail, but it teaches you, or it should teach you how not to do it again. "Those that can't learn from the past are doomed to repeat it!"

Compassion would be educating the person that now has to pay their student loan debt, on making better choices to not make the same mistakes.

The old saying, if you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach a man to fish, you feed him for a life.

Yes it sucks that people paid way too much money for basket weaving degrees, or what ever degree that they purchased that is not economically viable.

THEY should learn for that lesson, pay their bill and move on....

Now if you excuse me I have to go to work so I can afford to drive home.....

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Sound like your state has issues.

My Son, works full time to pay for college.
He doesn't want loans. He does call on the first national bank of Dad from time to time.

He has a few companies offering to pay for him to finish his degree, and a salary to work for them while he completes school.

It all depends on what YOU want to do in life and how you want to manage your life.

I have had to pay for my education. Why should I have to pay for yours too?

The teacher, etc forgiveness program has been fraught with issues, it's convoluted, misleading and a lot don't end up qualifying despite it being billed as a great program.

 

[LuvOrlando]

They're unsecured loans issued to debtors with little to no repayment history.

How isn't this predatory lending? The guidelines that would and should prevent such arrangements were literally subdued to accommodate these exact matchups that might not end well, it is very doubtful poor people are capable of pulling such strings

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

No if you excuse me I have to go to work so I can afford to drive home.....

That's probably not a line you'd want to use while on the DIS, playing around on the DIS and not working when you should be because you know you need to afford to drive home. It's quite contradictory.

 

[barkley]

Not necessarily, I’ve had kids in 6 off campus apartments, the average rent was $750 a month, 12 month leases (in NJ that rent paid for pretty scary housing with many roommates). Room and board at college was around $14,000 a year, so rent was cheaper but they still had to eat, on campus meal plans were around $6000 a year so cooking did sane money, probably around $3000 a year.

$20,000 for what in our area ends up being 7 months of meals and lodging results in a huge savings if the student were to opt for living off campus even at the rates your posted

$14K rent for 7 months is $2K per month vs. $750 for 12 months per month (over a year saved-$5000)

$6K meals for 7 months is $857 per month and adds up to much more than what i know most to spend on a single person's groceries (not eating out) expenditures per month.

ya do what works best for you/your child. in our case it was running the numbers and saying that the minimal $5000 per year saved over the course of 5 years attending college resulted in a net savings of $25,000 that didn't come out of pocket or go on student loans.

 

[cvjw]

This is a little off topic, but isn't the problem here that an education degree is too expensive? I think most people will agree we need educators. The field shouldn't be limited to those that 1) come from money and can afford the cost of tuition out of pocket; or 2) those that get full or significant scholarships because there just aren't enough people in those categories to meet the needs. And I do not think lowering the requirements to become a teacher is the way to go.

I guess I can't imagine being told by my parents what I could or could not do with my future. I understand different families approach things differently.

As I have stated earlier, there is a university 5 miles from my house that has an amazing teaching program. $2000 per semester for tuition and fees. Get your teaching degree from a smaller, cheaper school.

And, as to the comment about me telling my kids what they could and couldn’t do with their future - kids need help deciding on their future at age 17/18. That is a big reason all these kids are so much in debt. They need a voice of reason. I am that for my kids. And guess what - after getting fantastic degrees, both my kids have excellent jobs. Neither one wanted to continue on in school to get the degree they thought they had to have at age 17. They were both free to continue their education, they just both came to their senses.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I had to pay for my education and I will glad pay for others to get out of the mire of debt a broken system has left them in. It's called compassion and wanting to leave the next generation in a better place.

I can appreciate that there are people out there who want to help others. It’s what I’ve dedicated my life to, so I can relate. However, when we’re talking $60, $100, $200K in student debt, I’m not sure that $10K is really going to make that big of a difference. I agree with posters who say that there needs to be a lot more looked at in the whole process that is higher education, including rising costs and lending, among many other things.

 

[mrs. magoo]

So my husband works for a private college. The cost of education has sky rocketed in the past ten years - salary for professors, food options on campus, amenities that students expect, etc.... Do I think that schools should be 75,000 a year no. I really think the government should give kids x amount of dollars and allow them to choose how to spend it. We have lucked out that our kids are all graduating debt free because of tuition exchange and my son's football scholarship. If my children did not have tuition exchange they would have had different options presented to them and they would have had to make the choice based on their comfort of debt. I think that if you are going to be a teacher and you take out 200,000 of debt then I really question your financial literacy. Many take out the money to live on and not for the tuition that is where the real issues come to play. I am all for a very low interest rate understanding that the banks need to make money off the loan but not at the percentages they are but as for total forgiveness I think you knew you were borrowing money what did you think was going to happen after you finished school.

 

[BK2014]

I have had to pay for my education. Why should I have to pay for yours too?

Can we apply this to education at all levels? I don't have kids - why should my money go towards schools and other education related expense for other people's children? Or any other number of things that my tax dollars go to that I receive no direct benefit from? Why not just start the whole "if you can't afford to pay for your education then you don't get one" from the beginning? Why is it that a higher education is considered a privilege, but K-12 is considered a right? At some point, if people start buying into this idea that you shouldn't go to college/grad school unless you can afford to not take out student loans, and the exorbitant costs are not reigned in, then we are going to have even more unfilled positions in important roles or we are going to sadly lower the qualifications of those filling those roles.

No, I do not have an issue with my tax dollars being used for other people's educational expenses because I realize that society (including me) will benefit in the long run.

 

[LuvOrlando]

Well, people have always gotten tax breaks for student loan interest….up to 2500 a year I believe.

I want to see much much more, as in enough to make it a non-burden so that the poor who take on these costs and end up with big tax bills because they have good wages get that boomeranged back into their wallets to spend here in the US as they see fit. If there is a payment structure for taxes and income there can be one for tax breaks for education expenses and childcare. So many other countries pick up the tab for education, I see no reason the US shouldn't be doing the same and in the meantime offset the costs so they feed backwards to those who already paid.

 

[mrs. magoo]

As I have stated earlier, there is a university 5 miles from my house that has an amazing teaching program. $2000 per semester for tuition and fees. Get your teaching degree from a smaller, cheaper school.

And, as to the comment about me telling my kids what they could and couldn’t do with their future - kids need help deciding on their future at age 17/18. That is a big reason all these kids are so much in debt. They need a voice of reason. I am that for my kids. And guess what - after getting fantastic degrees, both my kids have excellent jobs. Neither one wanted to continue on in school to get the degree they thought they had to have at age 17. They were both free to continue their education, they just both came to their senses.

So my son has a couple of friends who did not go to college directly out of high school. They are working full time jobs but all of them have registered for community college this upcoming semester. After a year of working mostly manual labor jobs like landscaping, factory work and warehouse driving they have decided it is not what they ultimately want to do. They want to do something that will require at least an associates degree so they are going to get that. My brother in law is now 58 and he regrets to this day that he did not take advantage of the offer his company gave to him for him to get his degree.

Your last sentence is extremely demeaning to kids who choose to go to college. In your opinion they do not have any sense because they are furthering their education.

 

[mjkacmom]

As I have stated earlier, there is a university 5 miles from my house that has an amazing teaching program. $2000 per semester for tuition and fees. Get your teaching degree from a smaller, cheaper school.

And, as to the comment about me telling my kids what they could and couldn’t do with their future - kids need help deciding on their future at age 17/18. That is a big reason all these kids are so much in debt. They need a voice of reason. I am that for my kids. And guess what - after getting fantastic degrees, both my kids have excellent jobs. Neither one wanted to continue on in school to get the degree they thought they had to have at age 17. They were both free to continue their education, they just both came to their senses.

You’ve said it twice and it does nothing to help those who don’t live in your area. You lucked out because of where you live. Most of my kids were/are business majors (finance, accounting), so they attended strong PUBLIC universities that cost the same as less selective PUBLIC universities in our state, so they had more opportunities for internships and employment (unlike teaching or nursing, the business school you graduate from does make a difference, but unfortunately a well regarded private university was not an option with finances).

 

[Kestryl]

Moving to a new state isn’t some easy thing to do, and in-state tuition requirements vary widely.

My graduate school was a state public university. If you were 24 and younger and unmarried, you were considered a dependent student and it was up to your parents’/guardians’ status. Your parent has to have lived in the state for a year, be employed in the state, and have severed out of state ties (primary residences, businesses). There are some quirks for military service or temporary absence, but it’s not easy to establish residency.

Students are expected to accept debt responsibility because they’re adults, but then they’re treated based on their parents’ status (nearly regardless of their relationship with their parents).

 

[LuvOrlando]

If we want to pay off student loans, it should be a 1-for-1 hit to college endowments - how much we tax them could pay for how much we forgive. If that got floated as the solution, I guarantee the talk of any student loan forgiveness would just disappear b/c those huge non-profits are anything but non-profit, and when you go after the folks who actually benefitted by getting paid full tuition thanks to all these loans - well, they won't be so fast to support this solution (b/c right now, colleges stand to benefit enormously from student loan forgiveness)...

In some areas schools with ridiculous amounts of money at their disposal aren't even paying into local property taxes while communities are absorbing the costs of a great deal of upkeep, this is being mulled as a hot button topic in many parts of the country. There is quite a lot in play that can be examined.

 

[kymom99]

That's probably not a line you'd want to use while on the DIS, playing around on the DIS and not working when you should be because you know you need to afford to drive home. It's quite contradictory.

Maybe it was lunchtime

 

[jrmasm]

As I have stated earlier, there is a university 5 miles from my house that has an amazing teaching program. $2000 per semester for tuition and fees. Get your teaching degree from a smaller, cheaper school.

And, as to the comment about me telling my kids what they could and couldn’t do with their future - kids need help deciding on their future at age 17/18. That is a big reason all these kids are so much in debt. They need a voice of reason. I am that for my kids. And guess what - after getting fantastic degrees, both my kids have excellent jobs. Neither one wanted to continue on in school to get the degree they thought they had to have at age 17. They were both free to continue their education, they just both came to their senses.

That does not exist everywhere. Non flagships in my state are closer to 8k per semester. Not to mention that they are a lot further than 5 miles from my house.

 

[Colleen27]

Well, getting the right degree that will pay enough to support yourself is a good start. Kids should not be taking out expensive student loans and getting degrees in low paying fields. It is simple economics. A teaching degree will not pay enough to support $200,000 in student debt.

We told our kids they had to get a degree in a field that would earn enough to support them later in life. If they still wanted that degree in film making, it could come AFTER the one that would support them. Just common sense.

There are two conversations here: the macro and the micro. By focusing on personal choice, you (and quite a few others, so don't feel like I'm picking on you in particular) are more or less refusing to engage with the point many of us are trying to make about how broken the *system* is. Yes, some students can beat the game - either they were born into a family who can afford college, or one that lives in a state with strong merit policies, or in a place with affordable education costs. That doesn't change the fact that the game itself is profoundly unfair and set up in a such a way that a sizeable minority of students, if not a majority, can't "win" (defining winning here at getting the higher education required for middle class jobs without crippling debt). And the narrow focus on individual solutions is one big piece of why we're looking at massive shortages in essential but low-paying professions like teaching as the Boomers - the last American generation to experience affordable post-secondary education - retire. Because more and more students are using their common sense and deciding that it doesn't make sense to spend $100K+ on a degree to make $35K/year, a good choice per common sense and free market principles but one that when made by too many is threatening the health if not the actual existence of public education in our country.

I don't mean this to sound rude. It will and I will apologize in advance.
But if the policies of YOUR STATE is are sub par to other states, have you ever consider moving? Or voting? Or changing the policy?

I'm sure I'm not alone in having tried and continuing to try that approach. But we all know it isn't that simple. You have to reach a critical mass over a huge geographic area - a whole state, at least - to get there, and there are a million other issues muddying the waters and making it so that voters who support education cast their ballots for candidates who slash funding because they agree with other stances they rank higher in importance. We can't all move to the handful of states that strongly support post-secondary educational access, and even if we could, it would be a risk because what the government giveth a subsequent government can taketh in the name of budget cuts.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Most Everyone has affordable options. Many just do not choose them. The university five miles from my house has tuition and fees of $2000 per semester. Kids just want their degrees to come from more prestigious schools, so these types of colleges are looked down on. As are trade schools and community colleges. Kids could start out at these cheaper schools and then transfer to to a more expensive, prestigious school. And cut their college costs almost in half.

Here's an example my Community College which does not have housing has this example for the total costs for 2022-2023 year

$ 2,328 – tuition and fees
$ 1,560 – books and supplies
$ 12,146 – room and board
$ 2,520 – transportation costs
$ 8,250 – miscellaneous and personal expenses
$ 40 – loan fees

$26,844 = total cost of attendance

TBH I think their room and board is low because rent is more than likely going to be more than $1,000 per month not to mention utility costs. That figure by the way is for residents of the county. Yeah tuition is lower than your example per semester but that's not all that goes into it. They also raised the tuition, it was $94 (includes fees) and is now $97 (includes fees). According to the college "60 percent of operating funding comes from county taxes and motor vehicle taxes; the remainder comes from student tuition and state aid"