Student Loans

[mjkacmom]

Not necessarily

along the same lines-the 'cost of attendance' at most places which is the number they are telling kids they need to have is a bloated formula that includes on campus living which many kids have no need for or can get by on a greatly reduced amount by living off campus. i just looked at our local public university and the 'cost of attendance' breaks down to 30% for tuition and fees/ 70% for 'on campus room and board' they sell kids a bill of goods that they have to live on campus to experience the 'real college life' when it's just another cash grab that runs up student loan balances to astronomical amounts

along the same lines-the 'cost of attendance' at most places which is the number they are telling kids they need to have is a bloated formula that includes on campus living which many kids have no need for or can get by on a greatly reduced amount by living off campus. i just looked at our local public university and the 'cost of attendance' breaks down to 30% for tuition and fees/ 70% for 'on campus room and board' they sell kids a bill of goods that they have to live on campus to experience the 'real college life' when it's just another cash grab that runs up student loan balances to astronomical amounts.

Not necessarily, I’ve had kids in 6 off campus apartments, the average rent was $750 a month, 12 month leases (in NJ that rent paid for pretty scary housing with many roommates). Room and board at college was around $14,000 a year, so rent was cheaper but they still had to eat, on campus meal plans were around $6000 a year so cooking did sane money, probably around $3000 a year.

 

[Colleen27]

Not necessarily


Not necessarily, I’ve had kids in 6 off campus apartments, the average rent was $750 a month, 12 month leases (in NJ that rent paid for pretty scary housing with many roommates). Room and board at college was around $14,000 a year, so rent was cheaper but they still had to eat, on campus meal plans were around $6000 a year so cooking did sane money, probably around $3000 a year.

Yeah, a lot depends on where the university is. That was one of the more striking things we noticed when college shopping for DD20 - whether the university was in low-cost rural Michigan or an insanely high COL area like Boston or San Francisco, room & board costs are pretty comparable. She's in SF and her RA award of free room & board is worth just shy of $17K/year. For 10 months of food and housing in one of the most expensive markets in the country, that's a screaming deal. She's got friends paying upwards of $1500 for rent with roommates, year-round because leases don't just cover the school year, and are paying utilities and buying food on top of that. But a frugal student willing to share space in a not-great area could certainly do better than the $15K my alma mater charges for room & board in the Detroit area, and a friend of ours actually bought a cottage in the northern Michigan town where two of his kids, two years apart, decided to go to school because it was cheaper than paying for dorms for them (also around $15K/year).

 

[gmi3804]

Why should student loans(or the interest)get cancelled? You literally took out a loan and signed the terms. Can my house loan get cancelled? What about my car loan? What about the interest on my credit card? Geez.

I could support the interest being cancelled, or at least adjusted. The lenders have a huge unfair advantage. I don’t believe in cancelling the debt, as that’s the borrower’s responsibility, regardless if they finished school. If you buy an expensive pick-up with the goal of hauling stuff, and then have no stuff to haul, you still owe on the loan.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I am so glad my two have finished with college. I worried about it for years because my own college years were a nightmare with no clue and no support at all. It’s a miracle I made it through. I came out with a good amount of loans and managed to pay them off pretty quickly once I started working as I really wanted to buy a house. DH went to college as an adult. We used loans and severance pay from a job loss to pay for his, and, again, got them paid off fairly quickly as we made it a priority. Both of our degrees helped us get good jobs, but we started our lives with zero so everything we did we had to think out pretty well, and the degrees we got made sense for us.

I spent years trying to figure out the best value for our two and how they could go to college with today’s costs and not come out overburdened with loans. I talked to so many people and read so many things, learning that everyone really has different priorities about college, many of which seemed different than mine. I think, though, that what the biggest benefit was, was talking with recent graduates I worked with and picking their brains about what went well, what didn’t, and what they’d change if they could, etc. And most said they wish they’d made different school choices and taken on less debt. Some of my older coworkers were still paying student loans well into their marriages and raising family days, and often had to make certain job choices that perhaps they weren’t thrilled with because they needed the higher pay. And it’s a scary thought but things are even much harder now.

I remember once when my kids were going into 9th grade mentioning on a thread here that we’d visited some local colleges that summer, and one poster said, “What? You’re looking at colleges now?” Well, yes! We have a lot of colleges around where we live and I wanted them to get a feel for all of them, to see what they liked and didn’t like, and to talk about costs, and potential careers, etc. And honestly, it was really helpful. Someone mentioned Boston College earlier. [They] “Hated it!” Had dinner there one night after a meeting, brought the kids along, and right away they saw that that it wasn’t the type of place for them. Good to know! Systematically over the next couple of years we visited many different campuses, and they got to know where it was they wanted to go, and where they felt most comfortable, etc., and that’s where they ultimately went. They also decided to commute to school rather than live there. It wasn’t easy. (DS did live w roommates for one year, which, in retrospect, probably wasn’t worth the cost.)

They did make their choices based on what we could afford, too, ie they were realistic. Both graduated with a very small amount of debt, and are working on paying it down. DD is almost done paying hers, as well as her car loan. She’s also halfway done with graduate school which, when all is said and done, between work stipends and a scholarship she won, will cost her just a couple of thousand dollars out of pocket. What’s nice is that she’s also saving for a home of her own, and because she’s not saddled with tons of debt, it’s looking like it can become a reality despite the ridiculous home prices where we live. DS is getting there, too.

Really glad we were able to get through that. I feel for anyone faced with it today. It’s not easy. But I do think that preparation and research can go a long way toward keeping costs down as much as possible. There is a book called Debt Free U that I first learned about right here on the Dis, which I think can be really helpful in a lot of ways to people on the journey of trying to figure out how to pay for college. Too often, though, people just jump in and pay “whatever it takes” to go to a certain school or get a certain degree, etc. That really has to be looked at more. My kids told the story of when they were in HS their bus was going by a community college and kids on the bus were making fun of it. I also noticed at college fairs at their school that community colleges weren’t represented. Kids were pushed toward four year schools whether they were ready or not, because it made the school look better to be able to say that a certain percentage of their graduates went off to four year colleges. That’s BS. As one senior teacher told us parents, look at the percentages of where those kids are two or three years down the road. If it’s not realistic for them, it’s not going to work. Or they make it work, but at what cost?

Am I crazy about the idea of paying off other peoples’ student loans? Three guesses.

 

[cvjw]

I have a perfect illustration of wisely choosing your college and career path. Both my boys wanted to go out of state, but we did not allow it. It was instate only to take advantage of the Hope or Zell scholarship.

Oldest son worked hard and got into UGA and basically went to college for free using the Zell scholarship. Worked his tail off and scored a free Masters in taxation degree at UGA. Graduated debt free.

Friend from high school did not get into UGA, but needed to go to an SEC school. She went to auburn, taking out student loans for out of state tuition. Graduated with the same degree as my son, but with $200,000 in student debt. She could have gone to a smaller school for free, but only an SEC school was good enough. She also could have gone one year to a smaller school and transferred to UGA, but did not.

Should I have to help pay off her student loans? It was her choice to attend the school she did and take out these loans. Choices have consequences. People need to be held responsible for their choices.

 

[mjkacmom]

I have a perfect illustration of wisely choosing your college and career path. Both my boys wanted to go out of state, but we did not allow it. It was instate only to take advantage of the Hope or Zell scholarship.

Oldest son worked hard and got into UGA and basically went to college for free using the Zell scholarship. Worked his tail off and scored a free Masters in taxation degree at UGA. Graduated debt free.

Friend from high school did not get into UGA, but needed to go to an SEC school. She went to auburn, taking out student loans for out of state tuition. Graduated with the same degree as my son, but with $200,000 in student debt. She could have gone to a smaller school for free, but only an SEC school was good enough. She also could have gone one year to a smaller school and transferred to UGA, but did not.

Should I have to help pay off her student loans? It was her choice to attend the school she did and take out these loans. Choices have consequences. People need to be held responsible for their choices.

You are lucky to live in a state that has scholarship opportunities, most of my kids would’ve qualified and been accepted to these state schools if they lived in Georgia, Texas, Florida… Many have fewer affordable options.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

I just wish the payments on student loans would be tied to the graduate's income. A new teacher making $40,000 per year should not have to make the same high payment as a new attorney making $100,000 per year.

In most states, teachers will have there loans forgiven after a period of 5 or 10 years of public service,
Same with lawyers that work for the DAs office or the public defenders office......

 

[BK2014]

Stop taking out loans when you have or will have no way of paying them back.

How is anyone supposed to know this in advance? Especially with student loans which are designed to fund the education that in theory will determine what your income will be in 2, 3, 4 or more years. But even with mortgages and auto loans, which are generally based on people currently having the ability to pay them back, no one ever knows if their life circumstances might change to the point that they have no way of paying them back. But their are people who do not understand this because they just assume that people who end up in that situation are there only because they made bad choices in life or did not work hard enough.

 

[sam_gordon]

In most states, teachers will have there loans forgiven after a period of 5 or 10 years of public service,

First, I think it's SOME loans that get forgiven. DD graduated with an elementary degree in 2021 and gets some loans forgiven if she works in an economically disadvantaged school for 5(?) years. Fortunately, our entire state qualifies. BUT, it's not all of her loans.

She went to an instate, public school, the state lottery money (that goes toward scholarships) covered ~$6,000 over four years. School cost ~$60-80k for four years if I remember correctly.

It's not fair other states give out full tuition to their students!

 

[cvjw]

You are lucky to live in a state that has scholarship opportunities, most of my kids would’ve qualified and been accepted to these state schools if they lived in Georgia, Texas, Florida… Many have fewer affordable options.

Most Everyone has affordable options. Many just do not choose them. The university five miles from my house has tuition and fees of $2000 per semester. Kids just want their degrees to come from more prestigious schools, so these types of colleges are looked down on. As are trade schools and community colleges. Kids could start out at these cheaper schools and then transfer to to a more expensive, prestigious school. And cut their college costs almost in half.

 

[Colleen27]

In most states, teachers will have there loans forgiven after a period of 5 or 10 years of public service,
Same with lawyers that work for the DAs office or the public defenders office......

Never actually tried that one, have you? It requires working for certain school districts, for a certain length of time (that may or may not be possible, since these tend to be cash-strapped districts that are losing enrollment and young teachers are the first let go when staffing needs decline) and even then there's a whole mess of paperwork hoops to jump through where any one error can mess up the forgiveness. Teachers get loan forgiveness in the US like people with serious health issues get disability, which is to say the lucky few get it with enough persistence and often help navigating the process and the rest have to figure out how to live without.

You are lucky to live in a state that has scholarship opportunities, most of my kids would’ve qualified and been accepted to these state schools if they lived in Georgia, Texas, Florida… Many have fewer affordable options.

Yep. Both my girls, at least, would qualify for those programs as well... except we live in a state that doesn't have anything comparable, and where state schools offer relatively little in the way of merit aid.

Most Everyone has affordable options. Many just do not choose them. The university five miles from my house has tuition and fees of $2000 per semester. Kids just want their degrees to come from more prestigious schools, so these types of colleges are looked down on.

Our community college costs close to twice that, and university tuition starts at triple it. There are not affordable in-state universities in my state. There are some states where non-resident tuition is cheaper than our in-state tuition, but of course that still involves all the costs of living away from home and the transportation costs of moving back and forth. DD's private university is costing us less than commuting (1.5 hours each way) to a mediocre in-state university would have, just on the difference in the merit aid they offer compared to the norms here.

 

[cvjw]

How is anyone supposed to know this in advance? Especially with student loans which are designed to fund the education that in theory will determine what your income will be in 2, 3, 4 or more years. But even with mortgages and auto loans, which are generally based on people currently having the ability to pay them back, no one ever knows if their life circumstances might change to the point that they have no way of paying them back. But their are people who do not understand this because they just assume that people who end up in that situation are there only because they made bad choices in life or did not work hard enough.

Well, getting the right degree that will pay enough to support yourself is a good start. Kids should not be taking out expensive student loans and getting degrees in low paying fields. It is simple economics. A teaching degree will not pay enough to support $200,000 in student debt.

We told our kids they had to get a degree in a field that would earn enough to support them later in life. If they still wanted that degree in film making, it could come AFTER the one that would support them. Just common sense.

 

[jrmasm]

You are lucky to live in a state that has scholarship opportunities, most of my kids would’ve qualified and been accepted to these state schools if they lived in Georgia, Texas, Florida… Many have fewer affordable options.

And there is a huge range of tuition costs depending on the state.

 

[jrmasm]

First, I think it's SOME loans that get forgiven. DD graduated with an elementary degree in 2021 and gets some loans forgiven if she works in an economically disadvantaged school for 5(?) years. Fortunately, our entire state qualifies. BUT, it's not all of her loans.

She went to an instate, public school, the state lottery money (that goes toward scholarships) covered ~$6,000 over four years. School cost ~$60-80k for four years if I remember correctly.

It's not fair other states give out full tuition to their students!

That's what I keep thinking every time someone on this thread posts that loan forgiveness isn't fair

 

[mjkacmom]

Most Everyone has affordable options. Many just do not choose them. The university five miles from my house has tuition and fees of $2000 per semester. Kids just want their degrees to come from more prestigious schools, so these types of colleges are looked down on. As are trade schools and community colleges. Kids could start out at these cheaper schools and then transfer to to a more expensive, prestigious school. And cut their college costs almost in half.

There is a middle ground between community college and prestigious private universities. One of my 19 year olds in commuting in the fall to public university with a 80% acceptance rate, $13,000 a year. CC is $5000 a year, the cheapest 4 year college in my state is $12,500. No inexpensive options here.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

First, I think it's SOME loans that get forgiven. DD graduated with an elementary degree in 2021 and gets some loans forgiven if she works in an economically disadvantaged school for 5(?) years. Fortunately, our entire state qualifies. BUT, it's not all of her loans.

She went to an instate, public school, the state lottery money (that goes toward scholarships) covered ~$6,000 over four years. School cost ~$60-80k for four years if I remember correctly.

It's not fair other states give out full tuition to their students!

I don't mean this to sound rude. It will and I will apologize in advance.
But if the policies of YOUR STATE is are sub par to other states, have you ever consider moving? Or voting? Or changing the policy?

My father taught me "LIFE IS NOT FAIR, Life is what YOU make it! It is no one responsibility to provide you with a good life, except YOU".....

I took those words to heart..... and I think I did ok

 

[LuvOrlando]

When you sign a contract the onus is on you to fo your due diligence on what you are signing.
Of course someone “selling” you something is going to try to get the most they can, try to convince you you need Y and Z instead of just X. That doesn’t absolve anyone from being responsible for agreeing to the terms of that loan.
Your criminal analogy is a strawman argument, unless you are specifically speaking about people who make some sort of an agreement to be robbed.

No, I disagree, I am pointing out where the needle leads when set to this particular degree on a moral compass.

Criminals like to think they never did anything wrong because if the sucker was just smart enough they wouldn't be a sucker. Lots of truly awful things happen when absolution is given over technicalities like this, and I completely reject such things in whole and in part. Education is important, but let's not pretend it didn't morph from something noble into just one more business to be exploited. Waving a promise that a diploma will change your life if only you sign away your life in front of vulnerable people is often unconscionable if you know they can never pay it back or that the certificate is worthless. By itself no harm no foul, but when an entire cottage industry springs up to encourage and enable those particular bad decisions, well it is very much something other than your simple equation of person A and Person B, because by themselves, these poor people could never venture into the contract, they wouldn't qualify. There is a whole industry set up to bypass safeguards and to pretend this didn't just happen and isn't happening now is absurd. Same thing happened with predatory lenders and housing with the poor and vulnerable in the early 2000's where McMansion home ownership was equally baited, if only they signed off on interest only loans you'll have the life you want and deserve. People lost what they had and no-one seemed too bothered by the fact the wrong side got the bump, if all that money went to *borrowers instead of banks we would have been better off. Then the banks got saved, here I say the banks can go stuff it let's save the borrowers instead and maybe we won't lose truly valuable educational institutions and American wealth.

Nothing weak about how I see the situation, no hyperbole necessary since a very similar dynamic literally just happened in recent memory.






*correction

 

[EilonwyWanderer]

I don't mean this to sound rude. It will and I will apologize in advance.
But if the policies of YOUR STATE is are sub par to other states, have you ever consider moving? Or voting? Or changing the policy?

Which is what people are doing by asking student loans to be forgiven. Trying to vote in people to get predatory policies changed.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

Never actually tried that one, have you? It requires working for certain school districts, for a certain length of time (that may or may not be possible, since these tend to be cash-strapped districts that are losing enrollment and young teachers are the first let go when staffing needs decline) and even then there's a whole mess of paperwork hoops to jump through where any one error can mess up the forgiveness. Teachers get loan forgiveness in the US like people with serious health issues get disability, which is to say the lucky few get it with enough persistence and often help navigating the process and the rest have to figure out how to live without.



Yep. Both my girls, at least, would qualify for those programs as well... except we live in a state that doesn't have anything comparable, and where state schools offer relatively little in the way of merit aid.



Our community college costs close to twice that, and university tuition starts at triple it. There are not affordable in-state universities in my state. There are some states where non-resident tuition is cheaper than our in-state tuition, but of course that still involves all the costs of living away from home and the transportation costs of moving back and forth. DD's private university is costing us less than commuting (1.5 hours each way) to a mediocre in-state university would have, just on the difference in the merit aid they offer compared to the norms here.

Sound like your state has issues.

My Son, works full time to pay for college.
He doesn't want loans. He does call on the first national bank of Dad from time to time.

He has a few companies offering to pay for him to finish his degree, and a salary to work for them while he completes school.

It all depends on what YOU want to do in life and how you want to manage your life.

I have had to pay for my education. Why should I have to pay for yours too?

 

[BK2014]

A teaching degree will not pay enough to support $200,000 in student debt.

This is a little off topic, but isn't the problem here that an education degree is too expensive? I think most people will agree we need educators. The field shouldn't be limited to those that 1) come from money and can afford the cost of tuition out of pocket; or 2) those that get full or significant scholarships because there just aren't enough people in those categories to meet the needs. And I do not think lowering the requirements to become a teacher is the way to go.

We told our kids they had to get a degree in a field that would earn enough to support them later in life.

I guess I can't imagine being told by my parents what I could or could not do with my future. I understand different families approach things differently.